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I have to agree with the others here that the current GKs are missing the "elitist" feel with so
many of them running around like average Space Marines with fancy toys, but I like the new kinda like the new Codex.
I don't think it's too strong and I like the fact that there is a huge variety of effective builds rather than the super competitive one that everybody plays and other options that are plain bad.
And about all the ruckus that Draigowing is creating... Seriously? I haven't played against it yet, but 20 t4 terminators don't seem so threatening, even with two wounds. LRBT anyone?^^
(Yes this is over simplifying it but still....)

I currently don't play Grey Knights. BUT all the way back when I started I wanted the play Daemon Hunters (pure GK) because I simply loved the design
and their feeling of an elite Army, even if they weren't all that strong back in the day. What kept me from it was really only the high prices and metal models
(+ the only store I knew back then only had one box and I didn't think of asking them to order more...)

However I might start a Grey Knight army if I get the time and money together, though it will be a weird army... probably not very competitive... lots of weird henchmen... it's gonna be an Alpha
Legion army using the GK codex... COME AT ME BRETHREN

I can't say GK can be considered a bandwagon codex anymore, since not only is the thing nine months old but Necrons came out afterwards and would have pulled off most of the flavor of the month players.

Why do people keep bring up old GK players? I sure haven't seen those metal termies on the tables.

Theduke07 wrote:Why do people keep bring up old GK players? I sure haven't seen those metal termies on the tables.

Well come to florida and you can see an entire army of metal termies.

Currently it's all been about the new necrons where I am now. Like every 3rd guy has necrons. Gk are once again tied with IG / blood angels/wolves/tyranids. sisters, tau, and daemons all trailing far behind in popularity (which is wierdly the reason I want to start up a daemon army now lol)

Theduke07 wrote:Why do people keep bring up old GK players? I sure haven't seen those metal termies on the tables.

You should come to Cleveland for a game or two, I only have 2 models that are not from the old third ed sets.

Started GK's initially because I was so sick of having my Nids surgically crapped on by every other new codex since IG. The fact that they were a strong army with great rules was key. Started the army, didn't like the fluff, hated painting them and now they are on the back burner (though I fully intend to build a 2k Coteaz list...at some point).

Necrons are my latest army. Started because I thought the models looked cool. Loved the feel of the Codex. Overall it's well balanced, strong but not overpowered. And I'm loving the painting (yeah it's easy to paint, but having the choice to add detail or not is what is keeping me going...With GK's they may start out just plain silver, but with all the non-optional details that HAVE to be done it takes the fun out of it completely).

Milisim wrote:Is it just because the book is so damn strong? Is winning and beating the crap out of other armies so important that one chooses them?

I just do not see the appeal to knowing with ALMOST certainty that I will win the next game regardless of what army or style is fielded against me.


Why did you choose the GK's?

For me, I chose to switch to Grey Knights from Eldar. When I first started playing, I wanted to play Codex: Daemonhunters because of how they looked and the general fluff of the army. However, it was my first tabletop game, and I didn't want to choose an all metal army (I hated painting metal figures), so I picked Eldar because it was mostly plastic and I thought the models looked cool. After hearing they were re-releasing Daemonhunters as Grey Knights, I made plans to eventually switch to playing GK after they came out.

I don't care as much about the gaming aspect (I suck anyway lol) but I enjoy the painting and modelling aspect, hence why I chose an army I liked the aesthetics of.

Grey Templar wrote:

BobTheChainsaw wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Great White wrote:Some people chose them because they played deamonhunters.

I played Daemonhunters. I didn't use GK's. How d'ya think I feel about the GK Codex?

You do realize, with Inquistors, Assasins and Henchmen, you can keep playing your army with the new codex, right?

You just have to run Coteaz. This is the price for playing the least popular half of a dual codex when it gets updated. Consider yourself lucky they didn't get completely deleted from the codex(like they should have been)

I'm not sure if you are being serious. How would you like it if they deleted the Grey Knights and GW made the update Codex :Inquisition instead. Learn Empathy please.

Except a Codex: Inquisition would be far more interesting, varied, and fun than codex shiny marines

Easy is cheesy, I guess that is why. Luckily around here we don't have any GK players.

AzureDeath wrote:Easy is cheesy, I guess that is why. Luckily around here we don't have any GK players.

In an old British way, they would call it "Beardy".

Grey Templar wrote:You just have to run Coteaz. This is the price for playing the least popular half of a dual codex when it gets updated. Consider yourself lucky they didn't get completely deleted from the codex(like they should have been)

Yeah. Sure. I'll go right on ahead and consider myself 'lucky'.

I think it would be interesting for the new band of gk haters to play against 3rd edition csm. lol

@rockerbikle as far as empathy why? wargamers dont feel empathy. Just contempt when their book isn't the percieved strongest. lol It's lols a minute when you here IG and Ork players whine about BA and GK. There was no empathy playing DH gettin wiped out by those 2. lol

Ah let the hate commence. It binds wargamers.

Grey Templar wrote:You just have to run Coteaz. This is the price for playing the least popular half of a dual codex when it gets updated. Consider yourself lucky they didn't get completely deleted from the codex(like they should have been)

Yes, Daemonhunters players should consider themselves lucky their entire army didn't get 100% invalidated instead of just being restricted to a special character. Your logic is flawless.

Luke_Prowler wrote:Except a Codex: Inquisition would be far more interesting, varied, and fun than codex shiny marines

QFT. I don't even care about GK's powerlevel. I'm disappointing that the book was Codex: Shiny Marines. Just another mech army (that can kind of run a termie variety) that didn't really feel that different. SW gave up TW, BA made actual JP armies possible but GK just made playing Marines and IG in the same list.

Death Cult Assassin(15pts):
WS:5 BS:3 S:4 T:3 I:6 A:2 Ld:8 Sv:5++
and power weapons, so 4 Strength 4 Ws5 Power Weapon attacks on the charge, as well as an invulnerable.

Howling Banshee(16pts):
WS:4 BS:3 S:3 T:3 I:5 A:1 Ld:8 Sv 4+
16 points
with three attacks on the charge, a non-invulnerable save and a point lower weapon skill and strength. They also have lower initiative but their special ability means they'll be striking first anyway, so that evens out.

So, despite costing one point less than the howling banshee, the DCA has an invulnerable saving throw, an extra attack, at a higher strength and higher weapon skill.
Warrior acolytes with bolguns, same price as IG but with higher leadership and boltguns.
And that's just two of the henchmen. I could break down unit by unit how GK is more powerful than other books but I cba.
In short.
Grey Knights are over-powered

the whole army has the exact same weapon choices just at different points cost. lame. no variety, nothing unique, just boring.

FOUR different grey knights squads come from the same plastic kit. grey knights, interceptors, purifiers and devestators (or whatever theyre called). lazy gw

plastic kits with lots of options are great but what is the difference between a regular grey knight and a purifier? you paint the helmet white? i never thought i'd say it but
that's getting a little too lazy for me GW. atleast make some purifier/paladin upgrade bits like unique helmets or robes or something.

shouldnt paladins and purifiers atleast have some unique weapons/equipment? no, i guess that would be too much work for gw to sculpt/make rules for.

borrrrrrrrrring.

Joey wrote:
So, despite costing one point less than the howling banshee, the DCA has an invulnerable saving throw, an extra attack, at a higher strength and higher weapon skill.
Warrior acolytes with bolguns, same price as IG but with higher leadership and boltguns.
And that's just two of the henchmen. I could break down unit by unit how GK is more powerful than other books but I cba.
In short.
Grey Knights are over-powered

Eldar are an old codex. Their prices aren't in line with current pricing. Death Cult Assassins are also supposedly in one unit of the army, but of course Coteaz changes that.
Warrior acolytes with boltguns who can't get orders, which is the most important part of IG infantry squads.

Comparing things in a vacuum doesn't generally work well.

Brother SRM wrote:

Joey wrote:
So, despite costing one point less than the howling banshee, the DCA has an invulnerable saving throw, an extra attack, at a higher strength and higher weapon skill.
Warrior acolytes with bolguns, same price as IG but with higher leadership and boltguns.
And that's just two of the henchmen. I could break down unit by unit how GK is more powerful than other books but I cba.
In short.
Grey Knights are over-powered

Eldar are an old codex. Their prices aren't in line with current pricing. Death Cult Assassins are also supposedly in one unit of the army, but of course Coteaz changes that.
Warrior acolytes with boltguns who can't get orders, which is the most important part of IG infantry squads.

Comparing things in a vacuum doesn't generally work well.

Yeah, and the GK warrior acolyte can have a storm sheild in the squad to soak up wounds.
Point for point GK offers more power than most codexes.

What Joey said.

Joey wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Joey wrote:
So, despite costing one point less than the howling banshee, the DCA has an invulnerable saving throw, an extra attack, at a higher strength and higher weapon skill.
Warrior acolytes with bolguns, same price as IG but with higher leadership and boltguns.
And that's just two of the henchmen. I could break down unit by unit how GK is more powerful than other books but I cba.
In short.
Grey Knights are over-powered

Eldar are an old codex. Their prices aren't in line with current pricing. Death Cult Assassins are also supposedly in one unit of the army, but of course Coteaz changes that.
Warrior acolytes with boltguns who can't get orders, which is the most important part of IG infantry squads.

Comparing things in a vacuum doesn't generally work well.

Yeah, and the GK warrior acolyte can have a storm sheild in the squad to soak up wounds.
Point for point GK offers more power than most codexes.

It's not so much that GK's have all these super cool toys. More like, they shouldn't have been allowed to so easily & cheaply spam the piss out of all these super-duper cool toys!

Coteaze is just silly for his paltry pts cost. Sure he's still 'just a basic human', but he allows a player to really abuse the henchmen by making them Troops choices, allowing for rediculously min/maxed melta squads (in cheap transports), and/or multiple super assault squads in the form of DCA's and crusaders, plus the ability to add on long-ranged cover with the monkies. (and more transports)
Then you can support this with all the juicy parts of the book as well...

Same with Draigo & Crowe - taking very powerful units that are normally quite limited AND prevent you from taking equally powerfull options that normally have to compete for those slots! Purifyers are likely the best genralist unit in the game. 150 odd point for a character 'tax' isn't that much to pay, especially when you can then add a pair of techmarines w/grenades + a venerable dread to the mix.

GK's get alot of hate because they're highly obnoxious and appeal to alot of people who are 'in it to win it'.


I know alot of players in my area picked up GK's after reading about how 'uber they were in the intertubes. They're easy to learn, super fogiving to mistakes, have very few 'bad match-ups' compared to other armies, are cheap to buy, super quick & easy to paint and have numerous 'power-builds' that don't require hours of list-crunching & game play to figure out for yourself.
Compared to say Eldar or Daemons or even Codex Marines, GK's are an army you can do very well with competitively even when you've never played a game with them yet! Once you add in the fact that almost every tournament offers cash prizes/store credit, it brings out the mercenary side in most players who look more at dollar signs than having fun.

I blame the local tourny scene for turning players into frothing mercenaries more than GW for releasing a powerful book... If tournies went back to the old GT formats of trophies, there'd be alot less hate and outright douche baggery going around.
But the terrible thing with monetary prizes? Win a prize, pick out something big and sell it yourself for profit or else trade it in later for the next big 'win-button' that come out.

I played GKs before the "new" release and haven't played them after.

Now, I don't play any Marines, and I don't really mean to start. I'm a Mekboy at heart.

But if I ever did choose to grab me a slice of that Power Armour, I'd probably go Grey Knights. Oddly enough? It's for their power- but not for tournies or for winning (I could care less if I win or lose). It's because, in my eyes, the Grey Knights codex is what Marines are supposed to be. 10 men fighting an army of hundreds of Orks or dozens of Daemons with a fair chance to win. Elite, over-ornamented soldiers who don't break, don't falter as bullets plink off their armour and beams of cohesive madness fizzle against their forcefields. Expert marksmen with superhuman reflexes that can fire a machine-gun and have each bullet strike a different skull.

They're as close as you're going to get to Movie Marines from an official GW product, with a beautiful model line that perfectly matches the fluff of their appearance.

They're still a pain to play agianst, though.

Joey wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Joey wrote:
So, despite costing one point less than the howling banshee, the DCA has an invulnerable saving throw, an extra attack, at a higher strength and higher weapon skill.
Warrior acolytes with bolguns, same price as IG but with higher leadership and boltguns.
And that's just two of the henchmen. I could break down unit by unit how GK is more powerful than other books but I cba.
In short.
Grey Knights are over-powered

Eldar are an old codex. Their prices aren't in line with current pricing. Death Cult Assassins are also supposedly in one unit of the army, but of course Coteaz changes that.
Warrior acolytes with boltguns who can't get orders, which is the most important part of IG infantry squads.

Comparing things in a vacuum doesn't generally work well.

Yeah, and the GK warrior acolyte can have a storm sheild in the squad to soak up wounds.
Point for point GK offers more power than most codexes.

correct me if im wrong. psyfleman gets 4 strength 8 shots, rerolling failed to hit rolls AV12. 48 inch range.

that def beats a missle devestator squad.

BS that GK dont have any long range fire support. they have the best of that too.

the best of everything in one codex

Sigh. This is why we can't have nice things.

Good thing GK are still perceived as OP, leaves more room to have upsetting victories for the necrons to snatch the next grand tourny

Joey wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Joey wrote:
So, despite costing one point less than the howling banshee, the DCA has an invulnerable saving throw, an extra attack, at a higher strength and higher weapon skill.
Warrior acolytes with bolguns, same price as IG but with higher leadership and boltguns.
And that's just two of the henchmen. I could break down unit by unit how GK is more powerful than other books but I cba.
In short.
Grey Knights are over-powered

Eldar are an old codex. Their prices aren't in line with current pricing. Death Cult Assassins are also supposedly in one unit of the army, but of course Coteaz changes that.
Warrior acolytes with boltguns who can't get orders, which is the most important part of IG infantry squads.

Comparing things in a vacuum doesn't generally work well.

Yeah, and the GK warrior acolyte can have a storm sheild in the squad to soak up wounds.
Point for point GK offers more power than most codexes.

Just for fun: Which of the two assault units you compared has the ability to assault into cover without becoming I1?

wormark wrote:Lootas aren't as good for killing paladins as I was hoping. Running the Mathhammer.

A boy only has a 1/48 chance of causing a wound for every attack. If I charge with a squad of 30, I'll be lucky to have 20 to attack back. This can expect to cause 1.58 unsaved wounds, plus 1.11 deaths from my PK. So I now take 7-8 fearless wounds and won't even get to attack back in the next round, but hopefully locked him so he can't charge something else.

I've got 5/216 or 2.3% chance of causing a wound for every Loota shot. If I get 3 shots each for a full squad of 15, I get an expected 1.04 unsaved wounds (double that if they don't have FNP).

Shoota boys can expect to cause 1 wound for every 72 shots fired, so less than 1 per round.

Burna boys seem to be a bit better, since the Ork BS2 won't come into play. Each hit under the template has a 5.5% chance of causing a wound. With a full burna wagon, and if I'm lucky enough to get 5 under the template, then I can expect to cause 4 wounds, which is much better, but I still haven't removed a model yet. They'll likely wreck me the next turn and I won't be able to replicate that. Maybe burna them, charge with a full squad, hope they lock them until the end of their turn, then try to burn them again.

My strategy is to blow everything else up and run away from the deathstar.

Purifiers I can handle just as you said, backup and let loose with my shootas and lootas.

Although not a perfect solution, rokkits. I realize they're not that great, but at least the Paladins die on every save roll of a 1. What in the Ork Codex is AP2? There's a plasma cannon equivalent on Dreadnoughts if I recall correctly.