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@Dr. Tremujin: That is a good idea, but two veilteks require two overlords/ics, as you cant get Royal Courts from destroyer lords unfortunately

Right; but Monoliths aren't out of place, because they can deep strike and teleport units around. Maybe we can make it work with liths?

I suppose two DS liths landing behind you spewing out 10 Immortals will do some damage

I also like double monoliths as an answer for terminators the double gate will remove 3/5 models; and force terminators to assault the monoliths rather than softer units, making them available for more shooting the following round, plus, as LOS blocking, Jump infantry can hide behind them on approach and leap over them when it's time to engage.

Want to take a crack at the list?

junk wrote:I also like double monoliths as an answer for terminators the double gate will remove 3/5 models; and force terminators to assault the monoliths rather than softer units, making them available for more shooting the following round, plus, as LOS blocking, Jump infantry can hide behind them on approach and leap over them when it's time to engage.

Want to take a crack at the list?

Out of curiosity, how do you field your monos? I would like to use them again, but I am finding it difficult in deploying one without the risk of mishapping or getting lazed to death.

I must say, I'm not really feeling the Praetorians in a speedy necron list. They are overpriced, their shooting is just too short in range and they're not good against mech lists. Now you can swap out their rod for VB+PC, which makes them slightly better against vehicles, but now you're making them a subpar I2 assault unit that just cannot hold their own against similarly priced units (i.e. 10 assault terminators, any 10-man GK unit, etc.). I just see Fail all over as a consistent and reliable necron threat. They are just not an efficient unit for their cost, and they don't excel in whatever they do.

Monoliths also don't belong in such a fast, necron army. They are the antithesis of fast. They are perhaps one of the slowest units in all of 40k, being able to move only 6" per turn. Yeah, you can deepstrike them to get them where you want. However, this takes away from one of the greatest traits of a fast army - their flexibility. Once you deepstrike them to a particular location, basicall you've committed them and cannot make any changes. What I envision for speed is flexibility like mechdar or DE - to be able to change your position at the drop of a dime. As such, I see doom scythes and night scythes as the ideal vehicles in such a list. They provide the ultimate flexibility in relocating your units quickly. And they've got good firepower to boot.

Finally, the tomb blades. I like their speed. I like their firepower. I like the unit itself. Unfortunately in the 4 games that I've played with them, they haven't lived up to expectations. Partially because my opponents were too afraid of them and focused on them. Partially because I forgot they had RP. I think that this unit has a lot more potential than the Praetorians. However, understand that it is a fragile unit and a support-fire unit. You have to play them carefully or you will lose them quickly. I recomment the particle beamers and shadowlooms on them. It does make them kind of expensive but with T5, RP and a 2+ turbo-boost cover, they are quite survivable as long as they are not assaulted and they can hurt infantry, especially if they are clumped out (i.e. just disembarked from a transport). And they are a bullet magnet that will relieve some of the pressure from the rest of your army. I still think that they are a worthy unit to include in a fast army. However, in terms of efficiency and overall flexibility, nothing beats the wraiths and scarabs in the necron FA slots.


Besides my MTO or pure Wraithwing necron list, I would consider a speedy 2K necron list as follows:


Scythe Overlord on CCB - 180
Scythe Overlord on CCB - 180

4x Lance-teks - 1x Pulse - 160
4x Lance-teks - 1x Pulse - 160

5x Warriors - Night Scythe - 165
5x Warriors - Night Scythe - 165
5x Warriors - Night Scythe - 165
5x Warriors - 65

10x Scarabs - 150
5x Wraiths - 3x Whips, 1x Pistol - 210
5x Wraiths - 3x Whips, 1x Pistol - 210

Annihilation Barge
2x Spyders - 100

It's not purely a speedy necron list. That's because such a purist list is just not balanced enough. What it is is a balanced list that incorporates a lot of speed, good shooting and some counter-assault. That's my list philosophy. Balance first, theme secondary.

Or possibly with the Veilteks just transport a unit of lychguard across and create a large amount of chaos and target priority.


EDIT: can't spell

Ive tested a veiltek list a couple of times and so far I really like the mobility aspect. I would prefer veil of darkness movement and night scythes over pretty much anything in the elite section. The closest choice would be deathmarks- with a veiltek.

Jy2, agree on all counts. I always assume that praetorians are armed with pc/vb because otherwise they're just pure garbage. This was kind of an exercise in seeing what could be done with jump infantry, but it looks like it always gets trumped by scythespam. Until the rules change, the necron elite slot will be a relative wasteland, and wraiths/scarabs will continue to dominate fast attack.

Tomb blades are great, but because it's only 5 to a slot, they're really hard pressed to succeed considering what you have to sacrifice to take them.

Lychguard arent 'A Wasteland'. My 5-man Lychguard squad (with swords & shields and a rezorb lord) decimated Kantor and some assault termies

200 points for a foot slogging I2 squad of five power armor guys, why, Especially when a squad of 5 necron lords is essentially the same price and far more customizable, with the benefit of having ever living.

Lukus83 wrote:Another point to consider is that by having an entirely meched army in Scythes gives your opponent nothing to assault, even if they blow-up your transport. Wraiths, while awesome, give S3/4 something to shoot at and while it may not be effective, they can still do damage and it's something dedicated assault units can hit on better than a 6.

I think the only advantage to Praetorians might be in a transport. Per model on their own I think destroyers are better.

Both have 1 wound. Both T5. Both 40 pts a model. Both jump infantry.

Praetorians have to get within 6" to shoot a unit with their ap2 weapon. Destroyers can shoot 24" at ap3. They're both S5 shooting. In shooting against regular marines Destroyers win easily.

Destroyers have preferred enemy in combat. Praetorians can be taken in larger units.

I'd rather have range vs a bigger fearless weak combat unit that at best is going to be a speedbump.

Nemesor Dave wrote:
I think the only advantage to Praetorians might be in a transport. Per model on their own I think destroyers are better.

Jump infantry cannot ride in transports, unless that transport specifically allows them to (i.e. stormravens). It's in the BRB.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:Another point to consider is that by having an entirely meched army in Scythes gives your opponent nothing to assault, even if they blow-up your transport. Wraiths, while awesome, give S3/4 something to shoot at and while it may not be effective, they can still do damage and it's something dedicated assault units can hit on better than a 6.

I think the only advantage to Praetorians might be in a transport. Per model on their own I think destroyers are better.

Both have 1 wound. Both T5. Both 40 pts a model. Both jump infantry.

Praetorians have to get within 6" to shoot a unit with their ap2 weapon. Destroyers can shoot 24" at ap3. They're both S5 shooting. In shooting against regular marines Destroyers win easily.

Destroyers have preferred enemy in combat. Praetorians can be taken in larger units.

I'd rather have range vs a bigger fearless weak combat unit that at best is going to be a speedbump.

Again, if destroyers were an elite choice, this would make the decision easier; but as it stands Fast attack slots are better used on units other than destroyers.

jy2 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:
I think the only advantage to Praetorians might be in a transport. Per model on their own I think destroyers are better.

Jump infantry cannot ride in transports, unless that transport specifically allows them to (i.e. stormravens). It's in the BRB.

But Night Scythes can carry jump infantry, so your point is a bit moot. But as Praetorians and Destroyers are both Jump Infantry and don't have options for dedicated transports, it boils down to what you want on the table.

TwilightWalker wrote:

jy2 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:
I think the only advantage to Praetorians might be in a transport. Per model on their own I think destroyers are better.

Jump infantry cannot ride in transports, unless that transport specifically allows them to (i.e. stormravens). It's in the BRB.

But Night Scythes can carry jump infantry, so your point is a bit moot. But as Praetorians and Destroyers are both Jump Infantry and don't have options for dedicated transports, it boils down to what you want on the table.

I was thinking more of ghost arks because of it being open-topped so that you can assault out of . But you've got a point with night scythes.

junk wrote:200 points for a foot slogging I2 squad of five power armor guys, why, Especially when a squad of 5 necron lords is essentially the same price and far more customizable, with the benefit of having ever living.

Except that, being from the same 'court', the Lords CANNOT be in the same squad as each other, just like crypteks. You can have TWO max(in the same squad) and that means having two courts (ie overlords)

Exalted Pariah wrote:

junk wrote:200 points for a foot slogging I2 squad of five power armor guys, why, Especially when a squad of 5 necron lords is essentially the same price and far more customizable, with the benefit of having ever living.

Except that, being from the same 'court', the Lords CANNOT be in the same squad as each other, just like crypteks. You can have TWO max(in the same squad) and that means having two courts (ie overlords)

You can keep the court together if you want, you don't have to split them off. So you can have 5 Lords together in the same squad.

Bam! Sasori'd.
[Also, what's up with the hostile caps man?]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Royal Courts are so much better than lychguard that lychguard shouldn't exist at all.

Lord with warscythe: 45 points
Lychguard with warscythe: 40 points

Lord has ever living, lychguard does not
Lord can be joined by any number of crypteks, lychguard can get 2
Lord can be taken in any unit size 1-5 (+ crypteks)
lychguard is minimum 5
Lord can take MSS scarabs on every model, Tachyon arrows, Tesseract Labyrinth, S.Weave...

Lords do everything Lychguard can do and WAY more
You can leave staff of light on a couple lords to have a mixed shooting/assault squad, or swap out for void blades to get entropic strike.

Lychguard can be upgraded to sword/board. Fine. That's an option. 5 x lychguard 3+/4++ with S5 power weapons for 225 points. I'd still rather spend that 225 on 4 lords that are going to win CC more often, and survive getting their squad wiped out.

junk wrote:Bam! Sasori'd.


Not to beat a dead horse, but Royal Courts are so much better than lychguard that lychguard shouldn't exist at all.

Lord with warscythe: 45 points
Lychguard with warscythe: 40 points

Lord has ever living, lychguard does not
Lord can be joined by any number of crypteks, lychguard can get 2
Lord can be taken in any unit size 1-5 (+ crypteks)
lychguard is minimum 5
Lord can take MSS scarabs on every model, Tachyon arrows, Tesseract Labyrinth, S.Weave...

Lords do everything Lychguard can do and WAY more
You can leave staff of light on a couple lords to have a mixed shooting/assault squad, or swap out for void blades to get entropic strike.

Lychguard can be upgraded to sword/board. Fine. That's an option. 5 x lychguard 3+/4++ with S5 power weapons for 225 points. I'd still rather spend that 225 on 4 lords that are going to win CC more often, and survive getting their squad wiped out.

Yes, but to have the lords you need an overlord, meaning that if you are running D lords (like me) you will have to field lychguard. There's also the fact that lychguard are cheaper.

That's true, the price of admission to a royal court is an overlord. Lychguard and destroyer lords seem like an odd mix, now I'm curious to see your list.

Sorry for the hostile caps Junk, but I just can't see a Deathsquad(of lords) being that great at surviving(killing yes, living long-enough to do it? no.) Even with and orb and weave, they don't have an invul, and at one wound each they will be shot to bits...though I wish they wouldnt be :(

Ever living makes them more survivable than lychguard. If a lychguard squad is wiped out, game over for them. If a lord squad is wiped out, no biggie, with a resorb, half of them get back up at the end of the phase. Also, while expensive, lords can take phase shifters, or be joined by Harbingers of Eternity with Timesplinter cloaks and chronometrons (rerollable 3+ invul) In CC they mitigate power weapon fights with mindshackle scarabs, in shooting, they weather AP2 weapons with ressurection orbs.

The royal court wins on merits, but like you said, you can only take 1 per overlord.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, +1 - Royal courts can hijack Open topped AV13 skimmers from warriors, whereas lychguard can only be transported by night scythe or monolith (neither allow assault after disembarkation)

But with lychguard you can give them shields for a 4++, making them about the same survivability as lords.

junk wrote:Ever living makes them more survivable than lychguard. If a lychguard squad is wiped out, game over for them. If a lord squad is wiped out, no biggie, with a resorb, half of them get back up at the end of the phase. Also, while expensive, lords can take phase shifters, or be joined by Harbingers of Eternity with Timesplinter cloaks and chronometrons (rerollable 3+ invul) In CC they mitigate power weapon fights with mindshackle scarabs, in shooting, they weather AP2 weapons with ressurection orbs.

The royal court wins on merits, but like you said, you can only take 1 per overlord.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, +1 - Royal courts can hijack Open topped AV13 skimmers from warriors, whereas lychguard can only be transported by night scythe or monolith (neither allow assault after disembarkation)

For me, I prefer The Lords mixed in with a squad of Sword and board lychguard. You can buy a sword and board lychguard, for the price of a phase shifter. Two lords with Warscythes, MSS, and an Orb on one, combined with the Lychguard is a pretty deadly unit. Everliving only really makes a difference if the entire squad is wiped out, which is something we hope to avoid.

However, the biggest advantage to court lords, is they can snag a Ghost Ark, from a warrior squad.

I think both have their merits. I do believe the 4++ makes the Lychguard squad more survivable. As against a lot of weaponry, that gives you a 50% save, followed by a 50% chance to get back up with an Orb. Lord squads pay a super premium to have any type of invulnerable.

They are overpriced, their shooting is just too short in range and they're not good against mech lists. Now you can swap out their rod for VB+PC, which makes them slightly better against vehicles, but now you're making them a subpar I2 assault unit that just cannot hold their own against similarly priced units (i.e. 10 assault terminators, any 10-man GK unit, etc.). I just see Fail all over as a consistent and reliable necron threat. They are just not an efficient unit for their cost, and they don't excel in whatever they do.

As the resident TP defender I guess I need to chime in here, but your comparing scissors to rock here, but we all know rock beats scissor. But none of us would ever make such a mistake in an actual game. Calvary go for artillery, artillery kill spear-man, spear-man kill cavalry. If your going to compare them point for point to a unit in a different codex you have to choose a jump/best/ect to compare them against. TPs have an 36" threat bubble, why would they ever assault something that they couldn't take?

Anyway, I think the fairest argument against them is Wraiths perform a bit better against troops, though the VB/PC combo on the TPs is very good if used correctly.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

They are overpriced, their shooting is just too short in range and they're not good against mech lists. Now you can swap out their rod for VB+PC, which makes them slightly better against vehicles, but now you're making them a subpar I2 assault unit that just cannot hold their own against similarly priced units (i.e. 10 assault terminators, any 10-man GK unit, etc.). I just see Fail all over as a consistent and reliable necron threat. They are just not an efficient unit for their cost, and they don't excel in whatever they do.

As the resident TP defender I guess I need to chime in here, but your comparing scissors to rock here, but we all know rock beats scissor. But none of us would ever make such a mistake in an actual game. Calvary go for artillery, artillery kill spear-man, spear-man kill cavalry. If your going to compare them point for point to a unit in a different codex you have to choose a jump/best/ect to compare them against. TPs have an 36" threat bubble, why would they ever assault something that they couldn't take?

Anyway, I think the fairest argument against them is Wraiths perform a bit better against troops, though the VB/PC combo on the TPs is very good if used correctly.

Where do you get 36" bubble? I get 18' 12 move+6 assault.


I think Wraiths are a lot better against troops, and generally anything that requires and invul save. They have an extra base attack, and higher strength. So they put out a lot more wounds. They can also hit first, and can take a punch back. VBs are significantly better against vehicles, but a lot of times that ca be overkill.

Bubble as in 18" behind them + 18" in front of them.

junk wrote:Bubble as in 18" behind them + 18" in front of them.

Ah! I see what you mean. I just think 18' from any direction, I don't really count that as 36.

Sasori wrote:

junk wrote:Bubble as in 18" behind them + 18" in front of them.

Ah! I see what you mean. I just think 18' from any direction, I don't really count that as 36.

Yeah Junk got me, that's why I used the word "bubble." I guess what I was trying to illustrate is they should have a lot of targets to choose from, choose wisely.