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It's kinda a big assumption and even bigger cost that you'll have zahndrekh and cover that isn't harmful area terrain
(which isn't harmful to the wraiths I might add) whenever that squad gets shot at. At that point you're building both your hq slots around 1 squad that can still just get caught in a leman russ blast or something. It just seems like a sunk cost fallacy where your'e trying to make a bad unit good by buying more and more stuff to try to get back what you're losing by taking them in the first place.

Simply put, 5 preatorians compare unfavorably to 5 wraiths with 2 coils and 1 particle caster in every situation i can think of offensively and defensively despite being the same cost except that it gets 4 more pistol shots. Against vehicles the preatorians kill it more harderer but in no situation do the wraiths fail to also kill the vehicle (probably, barring either squad just rolling a ton of shaken results or something). Even in a point skewed comparison where you take the preatorians to 10 and the wraiths can only go up to 6 it still doesn't look great for the preatorians with 4 less attacks on the charge and 2 less wounds and still striking last against everything but power fists.

Even your strength 3 hits example takes place in a vacuum where the wraiths didn't get to make use of whip coils to attack first and reduce the number of incoming attacks but the TPs get the benefit of an expensive res orb. using the identicle point cost example, 5 wraiths assaulting into 30 shoota boyz kill ~7 then take ~2.5 wounds. 5 TPs assaulting into 30 shoota boyz kill ~3 and take ~1 death. Still almost identical kill to death ratios and ignoring the overall necron army theme of having great anti light infantry guns that makes a good anti str3 (but not swarm) jump assault unit largely irrelevant and the numbers get progressively more in wraiths favor if you put in the obvious power klaw nob or extend into further rounds of combat where the TPs have a third of the wraith's attacks rather than half on the charge.

While point versus point comparisons are good to have, the concept of a deathstar always trades poor points efficiency for concentration of force.

So yea, you get 12 wraiths with upgrades for the cost of 10 praetorians with a destroyer lord. However, the 10 Praetorians are all in one unit, making them more resiliant to counterattacks. Wraiths, on the other hand, are much easier to single out 1 at a time.

As an aside, sometimes nothing beats t5 for assault. t4 2wounds is great, but instant death can be an issue.

Finally, Praetorians are not fast attack slots. Considering how great the necron fast attack slot is, the idea of debating Praetorians over wraiths should be considered along with the other fast attack unit you get. Using Praetorians, for example, give you a great excuse to run tomb blades, where without Praetorians using tomb blades is almost never a good idea since you lost a close combat unit AND are not replacing them with Praetorians.

DevianID wrote:
As an aside, sometimes nothing beats t5 for assault. t4 2wounds is great, but instant death can be an issue.

I dunno. I think t4 2W with 3++ and wound allocation (+ fearless) beats t5 with 4+ RP.

Finally, Praetorians are not fast attack slots. Considering how great the necron fast attack slot is, the idea of debating Praetorians over wraiths should be considered along with the other fast attack unit you get. Using Praetorians, for example, give you a great excuse to run tomb blades, where without Praetorians using tomb blades is almost never a good idea since you lost a close combat unit AND are not replacing them with Praetorians.

That's true. That is a combo that isn't really looked at often enough.


------------------------------------------------------


St. Valentine's Day Massacre tournament results are out and the winner is Necrons!

This confirms my belief that wraithwing may perhaps be the most competitive and balanced necron build and is definitely a top-tier list.


This is my wraithwing list which I used against Reecius' Bjorn long-fang-spam (battle report here):

Necron Overlord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Weave
Catacomb Command Barge

4x Cryptek - Harbinger of Destruction, Solar Pulse

Necron Overlord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Weave
Catacomb Command Barge

3x Cryptek - Harbinger of Destruction, Solar Pulse

5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors

6x Canoptek Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge


This is Eric Hoeger's Wraithwing list. BTW, he got a perfect battle score (getting 20pts in all 5 of his matches) and over some fierce competition and great players. This was his list:

Overlord: Warscythe, Command Barge 180
Overlord: Warscythe, Command Barge 180
Royal Court: Harbinger of Destruction with Solar Pulse, Harbinger of Destruction, Harbinger of Despair with Veil of Darkness 150
Royal Court: Harbinger of Destruction with Solar Pulse, Harbinger of Destruction, 90
7 Immortals: Tesla Carbines 119
5 Immortals: Tesla Carbines 85
5 Immortals: Tesla Carbines 85
5 Immortals: Tesla Carbines 85
6 Wraiths: 3xWhip Coil, 1xParticle Caster 245
6 Wraiths: 3xWhip Coil, 1xParticle Caster 245
5 Wraiths: 3xWhip Coil 205
Annihilation Barge: Telsa Cannon 90
Annihilation Barge: Tesla Cannon 90


Notice any similarities?

Actinium wrote:It's kinda a big assumption and even bigger cost that you'll have zahndrekh and cover that isn't harmful area terrain
(which isn't harmful to the wraiths I might add) whenever that squad gets shot at. At that point you're building both your hq slots around 1 squad that can still just get caught in a leman russ blast or something. It just seems like a sunk cost fallacy where your'e trying to make a bad unit good by buying more and more stuff to try to get back what you're losing by taking them in the first place.

Devian already made many of the points that I would make but just wanted to point out a couple of things...how can Wraiths be considered one of the best units in the Codex...but Praetorians are a "bad" unit when they are very very close to Wraiths but from a different FOC slot? I guess its the nomeclature used that often irks me. Their is nothing "bad" or "overcosted" about the Praetorians, and the existence of Wraiths in the same Codex doesn't magically make it so.

The point I was making with Nemesor and the Res Orb are their are synergisms available to the TPs that aren't available to the Wraiths. Their is nothing you can do to Wraiths to give them RP, however there are things you can do to TPs, like screening them with shadoloomed Tomb Blades the first turn (they don't have to be shadowloomed of course, but if its opart of your strategy to turbo booost them, might as well), that can shore up their lack of invulnerable. Also, you're not taking Nemesor, or the DLord, or the Tomb Blades to "shore up" the weaknesses of the TPs, your taking them because they are good units in there own right, but they also have the added bonus of synergizing with some units quite well. Tomb Blades are fast units that can bring their own cover saves and stealth and have Gauss shots, so can screen the TPs, they can stun vehicles to make them easy KPs for the TPs, and they are fast enough to run with the TPs and do disembark denial and the like. Similiarly, Nemesor is a great force multiplier for large units, and the two units in the dex that can get the most bang for the buck out of him are Lychguard and TPs.

Finally, you seem to have this idea that every model in the unit has to assault one vehicle, in the current mechanized meta pulling off multi vehicle assaults with a 33" long unit is not only possible it's likely.

The first time i posted I already mentioned them being an elites slot is one of the few things in their favor, if you want to fill up on tomb blades or destroyers or something by all means take some preatorians to hunt for vehicles. I can't get behind the idea of a preatorian deathstar because they are 40 point single wound no invulnerable save models without enough attacks or initiative to take advantage of their own equipment. You can do a lot to help keep them alive and getting into ideal combats but there's too many things they can't do, too many types of weapons and wargear they can't stand up to, and you could spend the same time and energy protecting or synergising with more cost effective units. If they were 32 points, or if the rod was assault 2, or if the VB/PC gave you an extra attack, I could very easily get behind them. But, as they stand now, I would rather have pariahs back, and i didn't much care for pariahs at all. They are relegated solely to the realm of 'I am out of other stuff to take because of the force organization chart' for me.

@Actinium: The VB/PC does give you an extra attack. The PC is a pistol, and pistol give offhand attacks

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Devian already made many of the points that I would make but just wanted to point out a couple of things...how can Wraiths be considered one of the best units in the Codex...but Praetorians are a "bad" unit when they are very very close to Wraiths but from a different FOC slot? I guess its the nomeclature used that often irks me. Their is nothing "bad" or "overcosted" about the Praetorians, and the existence of Wraiths in the same Codex doesn't magically make it so.

The only way Triarchs and Wraiths are "close" is that they're both jump infantry. Wraiths have an invul save, the ability to take on a variety of targets, and can take wargear to mitigate I2. Triarchs can do slightly better damage than wraiths to Meq/Teq, or to vehicles, chosen in your list.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
The point I was making with Nemesor and the Res Orb are their are synergisms available to the TPs that aren't available to the Wraiths. Their is nothing you can do to Wraiths to give them RP, however there are things you can do to TPs, like screening them with shadoloomed Tomb Blades the first turn (they don't have to be shadowloomed of course, but if its opart of your strategy to turbo booost them, might as well), that can shore up their lack of invulnerable. Also, you're not taking Nemesor, or the DLord, or the Tomb Blades to "shore up" the weaknesses of the TPs, your taking them because they are good units in there own right, but they also have the added bonus of synergizing with some units quite well. Tomb Blades are fast units that can bring their own cover saves and stealth and have Gauss shots, so can screen the TPs, they can stun vehicles to make them easy KPs for the TPs, and they are fast enough to run with the TPs and do disembark denial and the like. Similiarly, Nemesor is a great force multiplier for large units, and the two units in the dex that can get the most bang for the buck out of him are Lychguard and TPs.

. . . You are really trying to make the point that Wraiths don't synergize with DLords and the Nemsor?
A Destroyer Lord and the Nemsor both power up wraiths just as well as Triarchs. You don't get the slight increase in RP from a Rez Orb, but Wraiths give your Destroyer Lord a great invulnerable delivery vehicle. The Nemsor allows you to deepstrike all your Wraiths at once if you so chose, and can give them furious charge. Now, if you have spare elite slots, why not throw in some Deathmarks to back up your Wraiths, to take out elite enemy units or tough models? Why not some flayed ones, to hit hordes? With a destroyer lord, the Wraiths don't have to worry about vehicles either. Or the Nemsor can just give them Tank Hunters. Either way, a unit of Wraiths can at least engage any threat the opponent can field (Barring very powerful deathstars).

If they get the extra attack i can see some more uses for triarchs then. They're still very niche and not at all a good deathstar unit but the rending numbers against monstrous creatures get significantly better with 3 attacks on the charge, i mean the mc still goes at a higher initiative and kills 2-3 preatorians first but as a small problem solver unit for a force that has no wraiths or scarabs you can at least make the argument for 40pts.

Still wish rods were assault 2 and/or 12".

Actinium wrote:Still wish rods were assault 2 and/or 12".

yeah but GW won't let there be anything that can possibly take out two of their hardest poster boys (SM terminators) then still power assault them.

About triarchs not being deathstars, well i wouldn't use them for that. I'd use them as I would shooty scarabs, jump around shooting Sv 5+ or worse and assaulting vehicles.

Rather than going back and forth between wraiths and TP's, I'm going to actually try to build a viable list with the TP's and tomb blades. To me, I see wraiths and TP's as having 2 different roles. Wraiths are a flexible, jack-of-all-trades unit that does everything pretty well. TP's IMO will be used to hunt down infantry. AT won't be their role, at least not in the list that I will be building. What I envision is a fast, mostly mechanized necron army, and I will attempt to build one without the use of wraiths.


1500pts

Overlord - Warscythe, CCB - 180
Royal court - 3x Lance-teks, 1x Pulse - 125

5x Triarch Praetorians - Rod of Covenant - 200

5x Immortals - Teslas, Night Scythe - 185
5x Immortals - Teslas, Night Scythe - 185
5x Immortals - Teslas, Night Scythe - 185

10x Scarabs - 150
5x Tomb Blades - TL-Gauss - 100
5x Tomb Blades - TL-Gauss - 100

Annihilation Barge - 90

1500


TP's will take one of the night scythes, which will deliver them closer to the opponent. That is an option and they don't necessarily have to steal the NS depending on the situation. TP's will either hunt down MSU units or will be a counter-attack unit. The core of the army is a fast, shooty-based one.



2000pts

Overlord - Warscythe, CCB - 180
Royal court - 3x Lance-teks, 1x Pulse - 125
Overlord - Warscythe, CCB - 180
Royal court - 1x Lance-teks, 1x Pulse - 55
540

5x Triarch Praetorians - Rod of Covenant - 200

5x Immortals - Teslas, Night Scythe - 185
5x Immortals - Teslas, Night Scythe - 185
5x Immortals - Teslas, Night Scythe - 185
5x Immortals - Teslas, Night Scythe - 185

9x Scarabs - 135
5x Tomb Blades - TL-Gauss - 100
5x Tomb Blades - TL-Gauss - 100

Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90

1995

Basically, at 2K, I've added more shooting. I didn't add another unit of TP's because I felt that I needed 1 more troop at 2K and some more cheap shooting units. Another CCB Overlord is always a good addition to any army as well. He also opens up the ability to get a 2nd Solar Pulse which I feel to be very beneficial to an army like this.

jy2 wrote:2000pts

Overlord - Warscythe, CCB - 180
Royal court - 3x Lance-teks, 1x Pulse - 125
Overlord - Warscythe, CCB - 180
Royal court - 1x Lance-teks, 1x Pulse - 55
540

5x Triarch Praetorians - Rod of Covenant - 200

5x Immortals - Teslas, Night Scythe - 185
5x Immortals - Teslas, Night Scythe - 185
5x Immortals - Teslas, Night Scythe - 185
5x Immortals - Teslas, Night Scythe - 185

9x Scarabs - 135
5x Tomb Blades - TL-Gauss - 100
5x Tomb Blades - TL-Gauss - 100

Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90

1995

Basically, at 2K, I've added more shooting. I didn't add another unit of TP's because I felt that I needed 1 more troop at 2K and some more cheap shooting units. Another CCB Overlord is always a good addition to any army as well. He also opens up the ability to get a 2nd Solar Pulse which I feel to be very beneficial to an army like this.

Looks like a very solid army to me JY. Plenty of Armour-saturation and a variety of fast, threatening units.
Instead of the TP's taking a non-open-topped Nightscythe, I would've thought screening them with Tomb Blades would be a better option?

Just Dave wrote:Looks like a very solid army to me JY. Plenty of Armour-saturation and a variety of fast, threatening units.
Instead of the TP's taking a non-open-topped Nightscythe, I would've thought screening them with Tomb Blades would be a better option?

That's definitely another option. However, with the NS' ability to move 36", that means by Turn 3, they can be killing long fangs and other infantry who normally hide out in the back.

Anyways, tactics should never be set in stone. The general needs to have the flexibility to change his tactics depending on the army he's facing and how his opponent is deploying/playing. But one thing you've got with this type of list is some flexibility thanks to its high mobility.

Irdiumstern wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Devian already made many of the points that I would make but just wanted to point out a couple of things...how can Wraiths be considered one of the best units in the Codex...but Praetorians are a "bad" unit when they are very very close to Wraiths but from a different FOC slot? I guess its the nomeclature used that often irks me. Their is nothing "bad" or "overcosted" about the Praetorians, and the existence of Wraiths in the same Codex doesn't magically make it so.

The only way Triarchs and Wraiths are "close" is that they're both jump infantry. Wraiths have an invul save, the ability to take on a variety of targets, and can take wargear to mitigate I2. Triarchs can do slightly better damage than wraiths to Meq/Teq, or to vehicles, chosen in your list.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
The point I was making with Nemesor and the Res Orb are their are synergisms available to the TPs that aren't available to the Wraiths. Their is nothing you can do to Wraiths to give them RP, however there are things you can do to TPs, like screening them with shadoloomed Tomb Blades the first turn (they don't have to be shadowloomed of course, but if its opart of your strategy to turbo booost them, might as well), that can shore up their lack of invulnerable. Also, you're not taking Nemesor, or the DLord, or the Tomb Blades to "shore up" the weaknesses of the TPs, your taking them because they are good units in there own right, but they also have the added bonus of synergizing with some units quite well. Tomb Blades are fast units that can bring their own cover saves and stealth and have Gauss shots, so can screen the TPs, they can stun vehicles to make them easy KPs for the TPs, and they are fast enough to run with the TPs and do disembark denial and the like. Similiarly, Nemesor is a great force multiplier for large units, and the two units in the dex that can get the most bang for the buck out of him are Lychguard and TPs.

. . . You are really trying to make the point that Wraiths don't synergize with DLords and the Nemsor?
A Destroyer Lord and the Nemsor both power up wraiths just as well as Triarchs. You don't get the slight increase in RP from a Rez Orb, but Wraiths give your Destroyer Lord a great invulnerable delivery vehicle. The Nemsor allows you to deepstrike all your Wraiths at once if you so chose, and can give them furious charge. Now, if you have spare elite slots, why not throw in some Deathmarks to back up your Wraiths, to take out elite enemy units or tough models? Why not some flayed ones, to hit hordes? With a destroyer lord, the Wraiths don't have to worry about vehicles either. Or the Nemsor can just give them Tank Hunters. Either way, a unit of Wraiths can at least engage any threat the opponent can field (Barring very powerful deathstars).

The point with Nemesor is that TPs can make a bigger unit and therefore spread his buff across more models.

The point with them being close, is, well, they are close. VB/PC TPs and Wraiths have very similar stat lines. RP is basically and invuln against shooting and while not as good in assault, in conjunction with their strong armor save is actually better then the 3++ against non power weapons. They have higher toughness but less wounds, and they will always have their pistol shot, where wraiths seldom take it, so they have a way of thinning out units they assault prior to initiative, which effectively crunches the numbers in a similar fashion as whip coils does. If you don't realise how close the too function against all targets then your making some false assumptions that simply aren't backed up by the facts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Even your strength 3 hits example takes place in a vacuum where the wraiths didn't get to make use of whip coils to attack first and reduce the number of incoming attacks but the TPs get the benefit of an expensive res orb. using the identicle point cost example, 5 wraiths assaulting into 30 shoota boyz kill ~7 then take ~2.5 wounds. 5 TPs assaulting into 30 shoota boyz kill ~3 and take ~1 death. Still almost identical kill to death ratios and ignoring the overall necron army theme of having great anti light infantry guns that makes a good anti str3 (but not swarm) jump assault unit largely irrelevant and the numbers get progressively more in wraiths favor if you put in the obvious power klaw nob or extend into further rounds of combat where the TPs have a third of the wraith's attacks rather than half on the charge.

I apologise for hijacking the thread, I can see this is going to need its own post soon as there are a lot of preconceived notions about these two units that are just plain wrong, but wanted to point out some flaws in your math here. You clearly have the wraiths striking first, when their is absolutely no way your going to whip coil 30 bases, and you clearly don't have the TPs shooting their pistols...which they are not doing because...?

Really, the notion that they should cost 32 points is simply laughable. 32 point for a 5 strength 5 Toughness 3+ armour save, RP, rending, entropic jump pack unit? It would be the most broken unit in the game.

Just my quick suggestion for a list:

Overlord - Command Barge & other goodies.
Destroyer Lord - Goodies.

5 Triach Praetorians - VB/PC (w/ Destroyer Lord)

8 Immortals - Tesla
Vieltek

5 Warriors
Lancetek

5 Warriors
Lancetek

5 Tomb Blades
5 Wraiths
5 Wraiths

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

~1850pts

I don't actually own the Necron Codex, but judging from what I've read, I reckon this could be a pretty solid list using the jump/fast theme. Someone with the 'dex is welcome to flesh it out.
The thoughts would be for the Annihilation Barges and Warriors to provide covering fire and pop transports, whilst the Wraiths, Praetorians, Destroyer Lord and Overlord is shoved down the enemy's throat, with the Immortals Deep-striking up-field.
Just my thoughts.

Keep up the great Necron threads, Junk!

jy2 wrote:
Finally, the tomb blades. I like their speed. I like their firepower. I like the unit itself. Unfortunately in the 4 games that I've played with them, they haven't lived up to expectations. Partially because my opponents were too afraid of them and focused on them.

This is the drawback to any good unit. If its hard hitting, slow and resilient, it can soak up fire before it goes. If it's hard hitting and fast it can do damage before it goes. If its hard hitting and neither fast nor resilient you're never going to see how good the unit is because a worthy opponent is going to make it a priority and blow it off the map first turn every time.

@just dave: That is a solid list, I can see a role for it all. Running the 'goodies' as what i would take, and upgrading the wraiths for some wound allocation, the list comes in at 1950 points, so one more wraith with a PC/whip coils makes a round 2k list.

I like this list, I might have to try it at some point.

And follows the ultimate question : WHEN ARE THE WRAITHS COMING OUT GODDAM IT??


As for all the people fighting tooth and nail to defend the TP's : Yes, we all want to play them, but something somewhere IS telling you...wraiths are just better. Basically I10, 3++, 2 wounds, str 6 rending attacks, jump infantry that ignores terrain? Come on...

If only the faq had ruled that whip coils brought halberds to I1 (which would just be logical, what is UP with that ruling)...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Didnt even mention fearless, the lack of which is the reason why I've given up on lychguard..run away twice in two games, in fights they would have won on the long term and that would have won me the game?

Bad luck? Sure, but never again, never again...

I like the idea of praetorians advancing just behind transports or fast attack units with invulnerable saves and then branching off to put that threat range to good use.

Or finding their way to the back field. It is really nice that they are both a reliable answer to meq heavy weapons teams and tank fire. Just so expensive!

They seem really cute if you already have a full fast slot. It's nice to know they are there, given how decisive the fast slot is. If you don't have room for wraiths or scarabs you have a unit that is kind of a over priced wish wash of both.

What I keep in mind when thinking about units like these, is how I really don't want to ram them into a vehicle just to be shot to death next turn, or get multi charged by its contents and anything nearby. That's why things like CCB, HGC, lightning strikes and the eldrich lance are important to make sure you have juicy targets. Unless you are really confident in your ability to divide their forces.

It's very nice that you can ram these things into tanks and transports and such, but you have to be careful with them!
I really have a hard time justifying having a DLord in any list that would run these jetpack units. The barges are just so valuable. I guess at low point values it still makes sense, but the attacks in the movement phase rule.

One brief note is the Destroyer Lord can also take wounds that would otherwise gimp the Praetorians, such as a Krak Missile or something, thanks to his invulnerable.

Dlords can't get an invulnerable save but the example still applies to sempiternal weave so we'll go with that.

Let's steer away from preatorians for awhile and talk more about tomb blades. All its weapon options are good; twin linked tesla is more 6s, gauss blasters that get jetbike relentless without the need of a phaeron, and a particularly vicious and cheap blast weapon. The only real shortcomings are the tiny squad size and the 4+ save. Do you ever want to get the upgrades? A 24" scout move is pretty gnarly but with a warrior's stat line +1t do you really want to be jumping ahead of the rest of your army? Is the 3+ or BS5 ever worth it? Would you ever rather just get destroyers with the better meq weapon that already has the 3+ save and may effectively be bs5 if the 6th ed preferred enemy stuff pans out?
And probably most importantly, is it worth a fast attack slot to get an anti light infantry shooting unit when all of our scoring mandatory troops are already great anti light infantry shooting units?

It would seem a test game would need to be done for some of these unit suggestions... I see tomb blades as a deadly harrassing force, too deadly to ignore, too cheap to focus on... With particle beamers they can pop transports and glance AV12, I intend to boost them around, so they get cover saves and absorb enemy fire, then, when the enemy focuses on my army instead, THEN I stop boosting them and open fire.

Just Dave wrote:One brief note is the Destroyer Lord can also take wounds that would otherwise gimp the Praetorians, such as a Krak Missile or something, thanks to his invulnerable.

A Destroyer lord can't take an Invul. He can take a Weave though, which is a 2+

I can't believe that I missed one of Junk's lists to take apart the Necron Codex.
Here's a Deepstrike/Jump list that I came up with a few weeks ago. I'm interested in seeing where it stacks-up with what you have.

Destroyer Lord w/Orb (155)
Destroyer Lord w/Weave (140)
10 Tesla Immortals w/Night Scythe (270)
10 Gauss Immortals w/Night Scythe (270)
5 Warriors
6 well-kitted Wraiths (250)
5 well-kitted Wraiths (215)
5 Destroyers, 3 heavy (260)
Monolith
Doom Scythe

Alright, So I just finished a 2000 point game with 10 praetorians and 2 destroyer lords backed up by 5 tomb blades, 3 Heavy destroyers, 10 scarabs, 25 immortals, 2 night scythes, unfortunately, my opponent unpacked an army that consisted of 30 terminators and some scouts. Annihilation. I got my ass handed to me. I played my balls off, trying to stay as mobile as possible, but a line of 30 terminators closing in on me eventually corralled me, withstood most of my shooting, and eventually crushed me in assault.

The whole time I was thinking, why the hell didn't I play tremor crons or wraithwing...

@Junk
You asked me at one point if I had a list with Lych and D Lord...
Well I actually tried this 1.5k list list against BA yesterday with Lychguard and a D Lord.
It went fairly well actually. I lost, but it was a close game and more due to my crappy tactics (and because he had mephiston...I should have used the lychguard against him ).
List is here.

D. Lord
mindshackle
total - 145

Elite

5 deathmarks

5 lychguard
shields
Nightscythe
Total - 325

Troops

10 warriors
Ghost Ark
Total - 245

10 warriors
Ghost Ark
total - 245

Fast

4 wraiths
2 Whip Coils
total - 160

7 scarabs

Heavy Support

annihilation barge -
gauss cannon

annihilation barge
gauss cannon

total - 1500

So, DS lych+dlord next to a HQ or other valuable bit of enemy army and assault it to death next turn?

IHateNids wrote:So, DS lych+dlord next to a HQ or other valuable bit of enemy army and assault it to death next turn?

Lol, if only I were that intelligent.
No, I used the night scythe with the Lychguard to harass the enemies rear and contest their objectives, and sent the Lord + Wraiths against his land raider.
It would have worked...if I hadn't let mephy run around.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

IHateNids wrote:So, DS lych+dlord next to a HQ or other valuable bit of enemy army and assault it to death next turn?

Lol, if only I were that intelligent.
No, I used the night scythe with the Lychguard to harass the enemies rear and contest their objectives, and sent the Lord + Wraiths against his land raider.
It would have worked...if I hadn't let mephy run around.

DS in assault range of mephy then.

If the opponent's army shoots them with any AP3 or better weapons, deflect the shots at mephy
If mephy assaults take all the saves on lych as they have 4++ from shields. Then a S7 preffered enemy will hit and wound 3 times (Rest In Pieces mephy), unless your dice are weighted to 1s

IHateNids wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

IHateNids wrote:So, DS lych+dlord next to a HQ or other valuable bit of enemy army and assault it to death next turn?

Lol, if only I were that intelligent.
No, I used the night scythe with the Lychguard to harass the enemies rear and contest their objectives, and sent the Lord + Wraiths against his land raider.
It would have worked...if I hadn't let mephy run around.

DS in assault range of mephy then.

If the opponent's army shoots them with any AP3 or better weapons, deflect the shots at mephy
If mephy assaults take all the saves on lych as they have 4++ from shields. Then a S7 preffered enemy will hit and wound 3 times (Rest In Pieces mephy), unless your dice are weighted to 1s

Yes, exactly what I should have done. I am sure that had the Lychguard assaulted Mephy, he would have went down like a sack of bricks.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

IHateNids wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

IHateNids wrote:So, DS lych+dlord next to a HQ or other valuable bit of enemy army and assault it to death next turn?

Lol, if only I were that intelligent.
No, I used the night scythe with the Lychguard to harass the enemies rear and contest their objectives, and sent the Lord + Wraiths against his land raider.
It would have worked...if I hadn't let mephy run around.

DS in assault range of mephy then.

If the opponent's army shoots them with any AP3 or better weapons, deflect the shots at mephy
If mephy assaults take all the saves on lych as they have 4++ from shields. Then a S7 preffered enemy will hit and wound 3 times (Rest In Pieces mephy), unless your dice are weighted to 1s

Yes, exactly what I should have done. I am sure that had the Lychguard assaulted Mephy, he would have went down like a sack of bricks.

Problem solved