Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

GK are OP but they are counterable i mean c'mon they can put a ballistic 5 4 s8 shot producing dread that ignores 1s and 2s in area terrain with a 2+++ cover save ohhh and the terminators

DarknessEternal wrote:

Jstncloud wrote:Finally, please refrain from calling me (or referring to me) as ignorant. I'd prefer uninformed,

Ignorant and uninformed mean the same thing.

Rude and polite are two different things, if someone wants to insult me via the forums/internet I have no problem using the ignore function, no sweat off my back.

Why isn't there a "None of the above" option?

I voted for GK's and BA's. Haven't played SW yet though. And Necrons are not OP. Simply balanced. You know they are going to outshoot you almost all of the time, but if you get them in assault, they are screwed more often than not.

Tau and Nids are overpowered to 16 people?

REALLY???

LOL.....

Not to shocking with the lame knights, but Tau and Nids?

There are always some 'random static/interference' votes - if there had been an option for 'Slann' in the list, it probably would have had some votes

Personally, I would just like to see a bit less 'feel no pain' in the new game, it gets so tiresome sometimes just trying to kill stuff!

happygolucky wrote:Its not the case of an army is overpowered, it the list then stereotypical views of the army...

Example:

IG vendetta spam..

................... therefore we should not be taking out our aggravation on an new army but more on spam lists...

Care to explain what an IG player would do then when faced by Battlewagon/Loota spam (like you took to the last Tournie) without spamming Vendettas or LC HWS or Leman Russes?

Hesh_Tank_On wrote:

happygolucky wrote:Its not the case of an army is overpowered, it the list then stereotypical views of the army...

Example:

IG vendetta spam..

................... therefore we should not be taking out our aggravation on an new army but more on spam lists...

Care to explain what an IG player would do then when faced by Battlewagon/Loota spam (like you took to the last Tournie) without spamming Vendettas or LC HWS or Leman Russes?

He's got a point there. IG is about have double of everything, even though everyone knows Vendettas should be 20 points more. But people who make spam lists have predictable tunnel vision.

Grey Knights can be countered by theoretically any army if the player is good enough.

But that's really not how the game should work, that non-GK (or non-Imperial in general) players basically deal with handicaps and an uphill struggle.

Hesh_Tank_On wrote:

happygolucky wrote:Its not the case of an army is overpowered, it the list then stereotypical views of the army...

Example:

IG vendetta spam..

................... therefore we should not be taking out our aggravation on an new army but more on spam lists...

Care to explain what an IG player would do then when faced by Battlewagon/Loota spam (like you took to the last Tournie) without spamming Vendettas or LC HWS or Leman Russes?

IG long range AT is odd, for a shooty army, their options for LRAT are rather limited, at least, in terms of effective options.

They have a decent number of LRAT platforms, but few are useful on a consistent basis. One will notice that you don't typically see LR Vanquishers, Lascannon Sentinels, Lascannon HWT's, etc even when Vendetta's and the like aren't included. There's a reason for that, they aren't very good at what they do.

If these other platforms were adequately capable for their points, you'd see less of the Vendetta spam and the like, but in many respects the IG codex has a choice between "Junk" and "Obvious Spam Choice" and relatively little in between for LRAT, and some other roles as well, hence why the book seems a bit spammy in many respects. Internal balance is rather poor.

Grey Knights win another poll I see.
Well I am not surprised, they are after all small and elite army of professional Space Marines, they should be able to kick almost everyone butt (unless that someone is giant horde army like Nids, Orks and Guard).

I didn't see an option for none, so I voted yes for all of the armies listed.
I like equality.

SW GK IG (no particular order, I'm not sure on the order myself)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:Grey Knights win another poll I see.
Well I am not surprised, they are after all small and elite army of professional Space Marines, they should be able to kick almost everyone butt (unless that someone is giant horde army like Nids, Orks and Guard).

This isn't fluff in a book, it's a game and IG/SW/GK should have never been written to be quite that powerful.

Hesh_Tank_On wrote:
Care to explain what an IG player would do then when faced by Battlewagon/Loota spam (like you took to the last Tournie) without spamming Vendettas or LC HWS or Leman Russes?

Mortars.

Eldar are too strong, especially their Storm Guardians..........

Harriticus wrote:Grey Knights can be countered by theoretically any army if the player is good enough.

But that's really not how the game should work, that non-GK (or non-Imperial in general) players basically deal with handicaps and an uphill struggle.

There is no counter to Grey Knights in the Ork Codex. I've looked.

Hit them with the Codex?

If you dont think Grey Knights are overpowered your a complete idiot.

I am okay with almost everything in the GK codex. Yes, it's frustrating, Yes, they've got a frankly dizzying array of special weapons that far outclass anything available in the other codices. But it's all mostly manageable.

I reserve my complaints for two rules:
1) Fortitude
2) Purifying Flame

In the interest of preventing this from being a rant, I'll skip the rationale behind it. But I suspect i'm not the only one that feels this way.

I voted GK's.

But then I play Daemons, so, I can't help but see them as 40k's version of '7th ed Fantasy Daemons' when I can't even deploy a single ing model on the table and auto-lose because I didn't go first...

Okay, so you need about 30-40 strike/interceptors to do that, but still, most people have no concept of just how awful warp quake is when a single 10 man squad can lock-off a 24"x44" area of the table! Add to that another 7" to avoid bad scatter rolls, and those 10 guys suddenly can make roughly half the table into a case of 'this is a bad idea to drop here' to 'this is sheer darwinisim to drop here!'

No book should EVER have that kind of an advantage over another book!

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I didn't see an option for none, so I voted yes for all of the armies listed.
I like equality.

Hey me too

Hesh_Tank_On wrote:

happygolucky wrote:Its not the case of an army is overpowered, it the list then stereotypical views of the army...

Example:

IG vendetta spam..

................... therefore we should not be taking out our aggravation on an new army but more on spam lists...

Care to explain what an IG player would do then when faced by Battlewagon/Loota spam (like you took to the last Tournie) without spamming Vendettas or LC HWS or Leman Russes?

Well in a sense I had too mainly because as you say the tournaments have got a bit too competitive and since Kan wall seemed appealing but it lacks mobility (a key factor I have seen in 40K now and tournaments) so I decided to go for BW rush, and I would like to note that I regret it because the main point was it was fun for a few tries but soon got boring to play and im sure my opponents have gotten bored of playing that list hence why my orks have taken a very long break on the shelf... because I hate playing that army now.

As well as that to note I did put in other examples, such as venomspam, these are cases that are netlists, what you could do is exterminator pattern leman russes, you could go for basilisk squadrons, etc... there are more types of competitive lists that can be more fun to play as and against the going for a netlist, also to note this wasn't targeting specific army's but more of the lines of spamming and netlists (obviously I could make a whole rant about GK but since they get their fair share of bashing by everyone and since I know its always the lists not the army that makes a list powerful, i better not), and so my main point is that we should not be saying "army X is powerful" or "This new army Y is powerful" (after all I see people saying that a lot of people saying that the newest army that comes out is OP, I have one word to disrupt those peoples point of views... Necrons...) but more about what people make their army to be, in their lists.

happygolucky wrote:

Hesh_Tank_On wrote:

happygolucky wrote:Its not the case of an army is overpowered, it the list then stereotypical views of the army...

Example:

IG vendetta spam..

................... therefore we should not be taking out our aggravation on an new army but more on spam lists...

Care to explain what an IG player would do then when faced by Battlewagon/Loota spam (like you took to the last Tournie) without spamming Vendettas or LC HWS or Leman Russes?

Well in a sense I had too mainly because as you say the tournaments have got a bit too competitive and since Kan wall seemed appealing but it lacks mobility (a key factor I have seen in 40K now and tournaments) so I decided to go for BW rush, and I would like to note that I regret it because the main point was it was fun for a few tries but soon got boring to play and im sure my opponents have gotten bored of playing that list hence why my orks have taken a very long break on the shelf... because I hate playing that army now.

As well as that to note I did put in other examples, such as venomspam, these are cases that are netlists, what you could do is exterminator pattern leman russes, you could go for basilisk squadrons, etc... there are more types of competitive lists that can be more fun to play as and against the going for a netlist, also to note this wasn't targeting specific army's but more of the lines of spamming and netlists (obviously I could make a whole rant about GK but since they get their fair share of bashing by everyone and since I know its always the lists not the army that makes a list powerful, i better not), and so my main point is that we should not be saying "army X is powerful" or "This new army Y is powerful" (after all I see people saying that a lot of people saying that the newest army that comes out is OP, I have one word to disrupt those peoples point of views... Necrons...) but more about what people make their army to be, in their lists.

How about weighing in the competitive options of each codex before saying it is 'just the list.' I will concede the fact that certain lists may be overly powerful, but that does not change the fact that if a codex can spit out multiple OP lists (See GK, BA, IG, SW, Necrons) it is more lethal than, say a codex that has one option or nothing (in the case of Codex: Marines where nearly every competitive army seems to use Vulcan). Example: Take a look at Tyranids, what list is even possible with them to be OP in the competitive circuit? Any army sporting enough AP 3 and/or blast templates/flamers will more than likely rip their list to shreds.

You have not met my 'Nid friends... genestealer heavy lists and tervigon + swarmlord and doom of malanti lists seem to do pretty well in the competitive circuit, I agree they are not as well combative against other lists such as venom spam, etc but still they will do well in the hands of good tacticians...

IG, GK and SW are the op of the day. Mephiston gets special mention.

I voted GK, because they are kinda hard counters to two whole armies, and can ruin a lot of other units extremely easy.

A few problems I have encountered...

1) Force weapons on everything. Why? They don't do anything against demons, needing their own special rules to do that, and are brutalize an other monster-heavy list, such as tyranids and Haemonculi-coven.

2) Brotherhood banner. To make things worse, I now cannot block off the force weapons with shadow in the warp, as my enemy automatically passes.

3) Force halberds. I6 Terminators. Woot. I don't think Ward realizes the general trade-off between taking a hit and killing everything before it can attack. Really puts a nail in the coffin of guys like striking scorpions and Incubi. Both their I5 and 3+ are now useless!

4) Cleansing flair. How Ward could possibly have thought that this was balanced, I have no idea. Goodby Orks, guants, genestealers, etc.

5) The Deepstrike mishap power. Goodbye demons, dropnids, or anyone who wanted to play a deepstrike army.

6) The vehicle power. The end of all subtlety with Anti-Tank. No longer can I focus on neutralizing my enemy for a turn, now I have to kill it outright if I want it to stop shooting me.

Tau are so OP they don't even need a 6th Editition Codex...

KplKeegan wrote:Tau are so OP they don't even need a 6th Editition Codex...

You iz a funny person

I watch a lot of batreps online and GK/Necrons have a pretty good track-record in their favor. Draigowing can kill pretty much any aside from Necrons if it doesn't kill the Necrons quickly enough.

Other than that, meh.

To me, an army is only ever OP if its extremely point and click and requires no brain power at all.
So far, no army seems to truly match this criteria. Yes, even GK as they can be defeated, and the so called instawin armies (such as draigowing) have some serious flaws.