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Brother SRM wrote:

Pacific wrote:I have heard that big changes are afoot with the magazine.

I'm not at liberty to discuss why or how, but apparently it is not just the fans who are complaining..

(So, watch this space I guess?)

Source on that? That sounds like great news and I'm sure that sales have been hurt due to the low quality, but I'm curious where you heard that.

I can't say sorry! I don't think its being kept a secret (and indeed anyone who is anyone at GW will know about it), but I would rather not potentially get someone in trouble.

Pacific wrote:
I can't say sorry! I don't think its being kept a secret (and indeed anyone who is anyone at GW will know about it), but I would rather not potentially get someone in trouble.

Alright, wasn't sure if you saw it in a post on Warseer or if it was actually something you heard personally. I understand, and hope your source is correct on that one!

Pacific wrote:I have heard that big changes are afoot with the magazine. I'm not at liberty to discuss why or how, but apparently it is not just the fans who are complaining.

Don't take this the wrong way Pacific, but we've heard that before and on more than one occasion. It's all well and good that someone intends on changing things, but whether they follow through is a bigger question, and how long that follow through stays in effect is another. I still remember the last few issues leading up to WD200, where it became Fat Dwarf - the new bigger magazine. It went from AUD$5.95 to AUD$9.95 and it was worth the extra four bucks for that bigger issue. Flash forward to around issue 230+/-, and the magazine is the same size that it was pre-Fat Dwarf, yet the price hasn't gone back down to AUD$5.95. And the content was shocking, Battle Reports consisting of an isometric photo of the battlefield with a few call-out boxes and arrows, and then a summation of what happened (no maps or turn by turn accounts).

So yeah, I'm all for a better dwarf, but there have been numerous times we've heard "It's all about to change" and it either doesn't, or does for a short time before reverting back to normal.

Battle Ready Studios wrote:
Like GW responded, the current issues are full of pictures and new rules. Maybe the battle reports are less in depth, but I think those have ALWAYS been boring.

Brother SRM wrote:
Well if you don't like battle reports that's on you. If you read the average battle report now, it's the new army of the month vs. another studio army that you already see on the front of every box, and the new army almost always wins. Sometimes these reports are okay, sometimes they're 2 pages long and gloss over a lot of detail without going into any depth whatsoever. Going back about 6 years, two of the staff played against each other with Speed Freaks and an IG paratrooper company. Every model in both armies was converted, the Ork vehicles were really converted from toys and random junk, and both armies used Forgeworld aircraft. The report was a good 10 pages long, the pictures were awesome, I always knew what was going on, and they even built a story around it. Neither IG nor Orks were new that month; it was just a battle fought out because it would be fun. It even had rules for the custom scenario they were fighting, and a few pages highlighting some of the cooler conversions each army had.

Couldn't agree more with this. The old battle reports were the first part I read and they were exciting because they really could have gone either way. Now days it is a case of the new release dex winning the game. I much prefered the old lay out of the report too. Always knew where everything was and what was happening.

Brother SRM wrote:
Well if you don't like battle reports that's on you. If you read the average battle report now, it's the new army of the month vs. another studio army that you already see on the front of every box, and the new army almost always wins. Sometimes these reports are okay, sometimes they're 2 pages long and gloss over a lot of detail without going into any depth whatsoever. Going back about 6 years, two of the staff played against each other with Speed Freaks and an IG paratrooper company. Every model in both armies was converted, the Ork vehicles were really converted from toys and random junk, and both armies used Forgeworld aircraft. The report was a good 10 pages long, the pictures were awesome, I always knew what was going on, and they even built a story around it. Neither IG nor Orks were new that month; it was just a battle fought out because it would be fun. It even had rules for the custom scenario they were fighting, and a few pages highlighting some of the cooler conversions each army had.

I remember reading that battle report. It was the best I had read to that point, and I think it was the best i have read since. It was just fun, and everything was home made (just about, Dellapina's trucks and wagonz most certainly were!).

If they took WD back to the issue 298 (where that batrep came from) style, then that would be enough. And it would be good.

An unasked for noobs opinion of WD
I had never read a WD in my life, Then I picked up the sisters codex issues(WD379-380) because I did not want to wait for the new SOB codex to come out to see if I wanted to build a SOB army.Seemd like a good deal.
My wife got me a another issue because she thought i read them like magazines, and I realized that quite literally the only info I was using was the codex info.The battle reports leave me thinking I need more models rather than trying a new technique. The rest was packed full of reviews of new models. You pay money to advertise to me, not the other way around. Im still not sure that a TO would accept those issues as real codex.
IMHO as a noob is that WD is not rubbish but not a good value,it is a specialist catalog with tidbits for the OCCASIONAL buyer.

Pacific wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Pacific wrote:I have heard that big changes are afoot with the magazine.

I'm not at liberty to discuss why or how, but apparently it is not just the fans who are complaining..

(So, watch this space I guess?)

Source on that? That sounds like great news and I'm sure that sales have been hurt due to the low quality, but I'm curious where you heard that.

I can't say sorry! I don't think its being kept a secret (and indeed anyone who is anyone at GW will know about it), but I would rather not potentially get someone in trouble.

Holds up my lodge token.... I can't say brother

Honestly WD has been gak for a long time, I see it getting even worse before the GW bean counters figure out they can get much more massive exposure on the net and their website and totally axe it.

[ oh no it's this thread again....purge it with fire]

Jamumools wrote:There are a lot of GW haters on here

You mind naming a few of them for us, please? I'm just curious really, I see people like you bitch about "all the GW haters" constantly and I personally don't see a lot of what you're talking about. I don't see people who "hate" GW, I see people who are rightfully pissed off at them for good reasons. Kinda like how you are right now...hmm...

H.B.M.C. wrote:So yeah, I'm all for a better dwarf, but there have been numerous times we've heard "It's all about to change" and it either doesn't, or does for a short time before reverting back to normal.

Wasn't there a rumor just a few months ago in fact that White Dwarf was supposed to be "better" now, with more content? And it's still the same garbage, about the only real "content" any of them had was the Sisters codex, which is actually worse than the printed codex it replaced.

"We're changing it for real this time! Promise!"

I should also add: last time I ever bought a White Dwarf was for the Dark Eldar release, and only for the painting guide for the armor and stuff (the only thing in the magazine worth reading), which I decided not to use anyway since they mix like 4-6 different paints to get that color and I'm not doing all that mixing. And it's out of date now anyway since the paint range changed. I have like 3 issues of White Dwarf total and I feel like I got ripped off on all of them.

Please bear in mind that email was addressed to Workshop. Your signature, and the content of your post, suggests you are at least moderately negative towards GW. I have remained mostly positive towards the company throughout the time I've been in the hobby. I felt it was worth pointing that out (to GW) in the email.

But in answer to your question no, I can't name specific people. You give me the impression you certainly lean in that direction, but there are people far more negative than you who just bitch about anything GW.

Lorizael wrote:Maybe White Dwarf is like it is because it sells really well and lots of people like it and enjoy reading it?

It's not for everyone I'm sure, but the content it has is what some people want obviously.

WD isn't something I particularly like or find a use for, but I see plenty who do.

If it was selling that well it wouldn't have been withdrawn from WH Smiths, the biggest distributor and retailer in the UK. That happened early last year.

1. The purpose of the mag is to be a catalogue and promotion for the latest kits.
2. It isn't a general wargames mag. You can get all that kind of stuff online, or in books, or in alternative wargames mags like Wargames Illustrated.

To be fair, over the past 9 months, they have been getting better.

Sidstyler wrote:

Jamumools wrote:There are a lot of GW haters on here

You mind naming a few of them for us, please? I'm just curious really, I see people like you bitch about "all the GW haters" constantly and I personally don't see a lot of what you're talking about. I don't see people who "hate" GW, I see people who are rightfully pissed off at them for good reasons. Kinda like how you are right now...hmm...

It would take a lot of bandwidth to write out all those names, admin would complain.


I haven't bought WD for about 11 years so cant really comment, but the modelling articles were always my favourite bits so i probably wouldn't like it now.

The internet provides everything i need really, but a decent wargaming, modelling and painting magazine would be cool.

Wargames Illustrated
Military Modelling

I'll still buy it, partly to get my hobby fix, partly because I like collecting stuff and don't want any gaps and partly becuase there's something nice about reading a magazine rather than looking at a computer screen - having said that this month's issue was poop.

There was far too much on the new paints, which meant the battle report was poor [didn't learn anything about either army]. Also the tale of four gamers [which I actually really like] was similarly rushed - would have been nice to read some bat reps from that too.

It's still very much hit and miss each month but I still enjoy reading it. Bigger bat reps, less [much less] LoTR, army showcases from real gamers [not staff], campaigns, more rules releases/codex updates would make me very happy and vastly improve the magazine for not much extra effort.

I am always surprised that GW never seems to consult such a vocal, loyal and well informed customer base to find out what they really want.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:I'm not sure why most of the creative stuff from WD is now gone.

That shouldn't be too hard to figure out. They used to have extensive articles on making terrain, and use it in their battle reports. Now everything is packaged GW terrain played on a RoB board. If they can't sell it pre-packaged, then they won't tell you about it. Why show off how they created a massive crashed space shuttle out of an old Star Wars toy and lots of expanded polystyrene when Skull Fort of Skully Skulls is out next month?

I get that part, but kitbashing several kits and using the modelling tools GW sells is still a valid way to approach it.

They could go into heavy customisation of the GW boards and terrain. Would be nice to have scratch build as well tho.

Have you guys read No Quarter? That magazine deserves an award, I swear... No Quarter now is what White Dwarf used to be in the 90's.Once you read another hobby magazine, you'll realize how ignorant you were with thinking White Dwarf is anything but a glorified catalog for 10 bucks.

Sidstyler wrote:
You mind naming a few of them for us, please? I'm just curious really, I see people like you bitch about "all the GW haters" constantly and I personally don't see a lot of what you're talking about.

Hey Ill do it and I dont even spend much time with you lot, I just like to check occasionally to see how ridiculously your trying to gang together and virtually bully people.

You, Puma, HBMC, Phantom Viper, Lunahound.. and thats off the top of my head, gimme ten minutes with PC and a pen and Ill give you a Catechism of Hate to rival Chaplain Grimaldus!

BuFFo wrote:Have you guys read No Quarter? That magazine deserves an award, I swear... No Quarter now is what White Dwarf used to be in the 90's.Once you read another hobby magazine, you'll realize how ignorant you were with thinking White Dwarf is anything but a glorified catalog for 10 bucks.

Hadnt heard of that before, thanks for the tip.

I just recently re-purchased issue 135 of WD as it was my first ever issue but it got read to death eventually. Such awesome nostalgia flicking through it again, there's SO many conversion and painting articles and bad painting tutorials recommending that you put black lines around every area of colour and it was awesome because back then I looked at it thinking THAT IS THE BEST PAINTING EVER!!! hahahaha.

I loved it because it was saying to me "try everything!". I think Nigel Stillman, Rick Priestly and John Blanche had a lot to do with the almost fatherly nature of the magazine at that time. It seems to brim with possibilities and creativity.

I don't buy WD any more, as has been stated previously, print media is dying and it essentially a pricey catalogue. The Golden Demon and artist profile issues are always cool though.

It was bemusingly rubbish this month.

You would have thought that an issue devoted to a relaunch of the paint range would have had some interesting painting articles, but nope, what they wrote about the new paints was like... ahem... watching paint dry.

And then you have the article on the new Empire release. A brief overview of Empire fluff, some pics of the new models and that was it. I know we complain when they harp on about the big new release, but not actually saying anything interesting about it all is even worse IMHO.

Flashman wrote:It was bemusingly rubbish this month.

You would have thought that an issue devoted to a relaunch of the paint range would have had some interesting painting articles, but nope, what they wrote about the new paints was like... ahem... watching paint dry.

And then you have the article on the new Empire release. A brief overview of Empire fluff, some pics of the new models and that was it. I know we complain when they harp on about the big new release, but not actually saying anything interesting about it all is even worse IMHO.

Lol, id have expected wall to wall painting tutorials and examples of effects achieved with the new paints.

Skippy wrote:Lol, id have expected wall to wall painting tutorials and examples of effects achieved with the new paints.

This would imply Marketing, something GW doesn't appear to believe worthy of its notice...

Skippy wrote:

Flashman wrote:It was bemusingly rubbish this month.

You would have thought that an issue devoted to a relaunch of the paint range would have had some interesting painting articles, but nope, what they wrote about the new paints was like... ahem... watching paint dry.

And then you have the article on the new Empire release. A brief overview of Empire fluff, some pics of the new models and that was it. I know we complain when they harp on about the big new release, but not actually saying anything interesting about it all is even worse IMHO.

Lol, id have expected wall to wall painting tutorials and examples of effects achieved with the new paints.

Oh, they had wall to wall painting articles but they were feth boring. Basically each one was a variation of apply base, apply wash, apply layer, apply lighter layer. Repeat that 20 times and it gets a little dull


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote:I have heard that big changes are afoot with the magazine.

I'm not at liberty to discuss why or how, but apparently it is not just the fans who are complaining..

(So, watch this space I guess?)

The fundamental problem with the magazine is basically that it reflects the current approach adopted by GW (total secrecy, shifting the new release, no hobby except the GW hobby etc). I can't see how the editorial team can make the magazine much more interesting if that's the criteria they have to stick to.

I'm in complete agreement with the OP on WD being rubish. I have very little time for any White Dwarfs after 1999. However I disagree with a few of his (and others') points.

1) Asking for a refund for a magazine is silly, especially when you can look through it in the store to see what you're getting. Asking for a partial refund for the unsent portion of a yearly subscription on the other hand is completely reasonable.

2) Feeling annoyed that you're paying for something that can be had on the web is understandable, but not a reason to ask for a refund. You're paying to have it in print and to have rules expansions a month or so before they are available on the web. If that's not reason enough to buy it, then don't.

3) Sure WD isn't cheap, but WD's price relative to the price of GW minis is roughly the same as when I started in the 90's. Being shocked at the price of WD, while paying GW (or even GW at internet discount) prices smacks a bit of inconsistency.

4) Lastly, WD isn't my cup-o-tea at all, but it really shouldn't be hard to see the appeal.

WD sells a very high-production-value catalog to a very specific, market of those who want to have beautiful glossy paper copies of all the latest GW releases, want to see some basic modeling and painting info about those releases and want to see them in battle reports.

Not that different than the glossy catalogs sold by many hobby companies, it's just that WD pulls it off monthly. Sure WD could do more, but they've pretty much settled on the above model and it seems to have worked for them for the last decade or so.

Skippy wrote:

BuFFo wrote:Have you guys read No Quarter? That magazine deserves an award, I swear... No Quarter now is what White Dwarf used to be in the 90's.Once you read another hobby magazine, you'll realize how ignorant you were with thinking White Dwarf is anything but a glorified catalog for 10 bucks.

Hadnt heard of that before, thanks for the tip.

I would be the FIRST person you know who would jump on something any company did that was rubbish... The SECOND No Quarter goes downhill, I am mailing in letters smeared by my feces.

BuFFo wrote:

Skippy wrote:

BuFFo wrote:Have you guys read No Quarter? That magazine deserves an award, I swear... No Quarter now is what White Dwarf used to be in the 90's.Once you read another hobby magazine, you'll realize how ignorant you were with thinking White Dwarf is anything but a glorified catalog for 10 bucks.

Hadnt heard of that before, thanks for the tip.

I would be the FIRST person you know who would jump on something any company did that was rubbish... The SECOND No Quarter goes downhill, I am mailing in letters smeared by my feces.

I wouldn't really call No Quarter a "hobby magazine".

It's Privateer Press' version of White Dwarf. The issues I have (1-5) aren't bad, but they were nothing really to write home about.


Edit note:
That's not saying that No Quarter is a bad magazine or trying to start a flame war or anything. I didn't see anything in those issues which justified me continuing to buy once the interest I had in Warmahordes at the time had died. I don't buy White Dwarf regularly for the same reason.

Bought my first and likely last issue of WD this weekend. Thought it would be full of painting tutorials etc considering it was about the new paints but it was just a giant advert I paid for.

1) starts a thread about how much he hates a GW product on DakkaDakka
2) complaints about DakkaDakka being GW haters

Makes sense, please carry on.

I enjoyed this months WD with the storm of magic and necron stuff. The previous months had interesting civil war rules for fantasy and the deathworld games were fun

It is what you make of it I suppose. 8$ for the time spent is comparable to other things I do

I know a lot of younger people waste or used to waste tons of money on comics (imo they provide like 5 mins of reading for 3$..ie a waste to me..).. Or all the people who smoke.. or many other things that I personally consider a total waste of cash

WD Isnt a great magazine but I don't see it being a bigger waste than other common things people spend cash on