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Tyranids could be almost endless or they could be just the hive fleets that are here now, nobody knows how many tyranids there are, same for the Orks
The Tick: Everybody was a baby once, Arthur. Oh, sure, maybe not today, or even yesterday. But once. Babies, chum: tiny, dimpled, fleshy mirrors of our us-ness, that we parents hurl into the future, like leathery footballs of hope. And you've got to get a good spiral on that baby, or evil will make an interception.
And if anyone is wondering... Time is working against the Orks in two ways.. Right now: The Tyrannids are already in the galaxy and steadily pushing across it. The Orks haven't yet united and it will take a considerable amount of time for them to get together and stomp on the Tyrannids effectively.
In the future: Who knows how much galaxy will actually be left for the Orks by the time they can actually get their act together and fight as a whole against the Tyrannids. Not only this, the longer the war draws on.. the more time the Tyrannids have to evolve their species to combat the Ork species.
Hunterindarkness wrote:I am more inclined to believe the Ork statement as it matches the setting and history. The other comes off as IoM propaganda. Which was true at one point in history, when SM's were legion and the whole IoM was focused.
Those days are 10'000 years dead now.Orks have a better chance of uniting then humanity.
Even still... the Ork Empire fell millions of years ago.. not 10,000. All that is required to unite the entire Imperium is a way to bring back the Emperor which there are several theories as to how to do it, but nobody crazy enough to follow through with it. The Orks would need one hell of a Warboss to fully unite under the strains of an entire galaxy (mostly the Imperium) to connect every single stranded Ork colony / WAAAGH out there.
As for the OP, it would unquestionably be the Tyrannids who would win. There are literally hundreds of reasons I am dumbfounded we haven't seen been discussed.
Such as:
Spoiler:
The Orks would need to scientifically discover a way to sterilize the very planets they fought on (something they aren't particularly good at), or else the microscopic spores left behind by the Tyrannids would become parasites on the Orks, anything from burrowing tapeworms to Tryannid bacterial agents and toxins. Not only would the world itself revolt against them, it would infest the Ork race for centuries on the microscopic level and when these creatures enter the cerebral tissue of the Ork (who would be powerless to stop their slow advance through their bodies without advanced medicine, which they don't have) it would become a battle that the Hive Mind would end up winning because its effects are far stronger than the psychic link of the WAAGH. If that happened not only would the Tryannids gain control of many Orks simply because of brain bugs implanted in them separating them from the rest of Ork kind because the Hive Mind can smother it like warp energies with the Shadow of the Warp, they gain the abilities of Orks themselves - rapid spore based reproduction, the ability use technology, and apparently according to some people championing the Orks don't need any resources to survive, the ability to live without actually being alive. Can somebody please explain to me how a living creature can grow without in taking any type of fuel? I know Matt Ward didn't design the lore behind the original Orks, so there has to be a logical explanation to this conundrum. When you figure it out, consider that the Tyrannids are hands down the most efficient at doing the most basic, and yet hardest to sustain thing in the galaxy: Living.
Back on track, many people have been saying the Orks would adapt to fight the Tyrannids. True, but that's not the same as evolving, which occurs over centuries and involves hundreds if not thousands of adaptations. Not only this, the Tryannids can evolve much faster than any other known race in the galaxy, and if there's one that can do it even quicker, you can bet that'll change once the Tyrannids eat them. Which leads me to my next point, Orks can only Loot planets. Tyrannids consume them entirely. Any planet lost to the Green Tide only becomes a greater asset to the Great Devourer, but vs versa, any planet lost to the Tyrannids, is gone forever. Not only this, but the planets that are devoured give far more resources to the Tryannids and much faster than the Orks. Metals and stone all provide valuable minerals that are invaluable to the Tyrannids and are leeched, if not scoured clean along with the biomass of a fallen planet. It takes time to build, mine, refine, and then finally forge weapons and materials Orks would need to fight Tyrannids, because unlike every other force in the galaxy, the Tyrannids deny them of their greatest asset, the ability to Loot and continue the war effort, because they aren't particularly good at making their own weapons. I know someone is going to post the pic of a Mekboy riding a looted Carnefex, and apart form its virtual impossibility in the lore, the materials of the Ork's riding platform are in relatively short supply considering the other races (except for Chaos in the Eye of Terror) would either all be dead or consumed for this to happen. In short, the vast supplies of the galaxy favor the Tyrannids way more than they do the Orks. Therefore Tyrannids are far more adaptable than Orks are, and given the time constraints of pitting two enemies with virtually limitless power, it's going to be a very, very, very long war to sort out. Well beyond the time that it's going to take for the entire Tryrannid race evolving to become an aethema to the entire Ork race no matter what battlefield adaptation it can think of as it eventually runs out of things to Loot as the Tyrannids continue to destroy them and everything else.
Going back to the whole living thing I mentioned earlier. The Tyrannid race itself is geared towards the extinction of all other life. It is the dominant life form of the known universe even beyond the ambitious and formidable race that are the Orks. It achieves this by evolution, brutal efficiency, the permanent denial of others to gain resources, and even more importantly: unity of purpose. Orks strive for war. That's pretty much it. Even under one banner there will always be infighting, rivalries, brawls, and even civil wars to prove to each other their superiority. It's basically how one get's promoted to sergeant. You kill your sergeant. It's not efficient. It's not methodical. It may be effective in the 40k universe as it weeds the Ork race to be tough and strong, but against the Tyrannids it's suicide. Every available asset must be deployed at all times against the Tyrannid race or else they will steamroll over you, consume you, and then use your chummy bits to make more chummy bits, which in turn makes... yeah.
Though the Tryannids can be splintered momentarily from the Hive Mind, they will never fight against themselves as soon as a synapse creature regains it's link to the Hive Mind and is no longer feral. The Orks on the other hand would never be united long enough to fight a war that would last for millennia or more. It's just not going to happen under any circumstance, because Orks are Orks. They like killing. And if they're aren't killing Tyrannids, they're killing each other.
Alright, that's end of Portion 1. Here's the summary:
Argument portion 1, the Tyrannids win because they can evolve faster, are more united, vastly more efficient, and deny resources more effectively.
Argument portion 2 in case anyone wants to ask is: Time, Genetics, Biological Warfare, and Logistics.
I can go on...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
riplikash wrote: Really the main difference between the two is the difference between raiders and cities. The ork cycle is self perpetuating. An ork world will keep producing more orks until its star goes out. They sacrifice short term gains for long term ones.
Tyranids instead strip a planet bare. While this provides massive short term resource gains, they wont reap nearly as much out of the world total. And as with any raiding culture, they can only maintain their system by perpetuating the raiding cycle.
You see this same tradeoff in the individuals of each species. Orks benefit from experience and growth, tyranids just produce what they want.
If we assumed both forces were even it would all come down to how the initial battles turn out. If the Tyranids could win the initial battles and maintain momentum they would win, as the Orks could not match the Tyranids raiding economy. If the orks superior defensive ability and stability ever broke the Tyranids war momentum, they would lose, as they could not match the orks more stable economy.
Interesting, I like this argument considering the Orks primarily loot things as their strategy for rearmament. I think it's more accurate to say that both sides are a raiding culture. One from a desire to survive, the Tyrannids, and the other to thrive, the Orks.
Good argument so I accept your challenge sir of giving reasons why the orks will not lose this fight if they lose at all.
First off their has never been an Ork empire that has all orkdom bowing down to one ork. There have been several massive empires that have had huge warbosses but not one single empire. So yeah that isnt that big of a deal at this moment. Next is a good challenge that I have found a safe gaurd through which the orks can protect themselves against the mind controlling parasites. That is the very spores that the orks use to reproduce. Not only do the spores reproduce when they die but it happens through their entire lives so they have a Micro shield to protect them from most micro things. Now I bet when you read this that you will say "That doesnt matter the spore things will offer no real resistance" then I humbly offer you option number two where the orks would probibly notice the other ork to be acting strangly and not feel right because he is either cut off from or muffle the waaaagh energies (just like what happens to orks who have been infected by genestealers, they dont feel orky) which means they will kill him soon to instantaneously when the parasite has taken the orks brain and has a new body. Next is the adaptability of tyranids you see since the ork race as a whole are close range oriented you would think that the hive mind would just make better armor but that would mean putting more bioresources into a unit like the gaunt. The hivemind is alot of things but being wastful is not one of them. See if you gave every creature better armor to survive better then you would be losing resources cause you would have less number of those units. Even if you just gave those better armor to the carnies it would be a wast still cause their armor is already good enough plus their are meant to take out vehicles, doesnt matter how much armor you have on if you cant even reach the target and even if you did then it wouldnt matter then cause then you wouldnt have the resouces\troops to push your advantage. Thats another one down last one I beleive. This is it even if the tyranids do take a world the orks can still live on it and use it for their reproduction purposes cause orks dont need air to live the spoors Imo can live anywhere including dead planets which then create fungus which then creats an atmosphere over time which then creates the orkoid chain of life. so yeah thats the last one and Im tired !!!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/05/16 23:36:50
DemetriDominov wrote:
Even still... the Ork Empire fell millions of years ago.. not 10,000. All that is required to unite the entire Imperium is a way to bring back the Emperor which there are several theories as to how to do it, but nobody crazy enough to follow through with it. The Orks would need one hell of a Warboss to fully unite under the strains of an entire galaxy (mostly the Imperium) to connect every single stranded Ork colony / WAAAGH out there.
As for the OP, it would unquestionably be the Tyrannids who would win. There are literally hundreds of reasons I am dumbfounded we haven't seen been discussed.
Such as:
Spoiler:
The Orks would need to scientifically discover a way to sterilize the very planets they fought on (something they aren't particularly good at), or else the microscopic spores left behind by the Tyrannids would become parasites on the Orks, anything from burrowing tapeworms to Tryannid bacterial agents and toxins. Not only would the world itself revolt against them, it would infest the Ork race for centuries on the microscopic level and when these creatures enter the cerebral tissue of the Ork (who would be powerless to stop their slow advance through their bodies without advanced medicine, which they don't have) it would become a battle that the Hive Mind would end up winning because its effects are far stronger than the psychic link of the WAAGH. If that happened not only would the Tryannids gain control of many Orks simply because of brain bugs implanted in them separating them from the rest of Ork kind because the Hive Mind can smother it like warp energies with the Shadow of the Warp, they gain the abilities of Orks themselves - rapid spore based reproduction, the ability use technology, and apparently according to some people championing the Orks don't need any resources to survive, the ability to live without actually being alive. Can somebody please explain to me how a living creature can grow without in taking any type of fuel? I know Matt Ward didn't design the lore behind the original Orks, so there has to be a logical explanation to this conundrum. When you figure it out, consider that the Tyrannids are hands down the most efficient at doing the most basic, and yet hardest to sustain thing in the galaxy: Living.
Back on track, many people have been saying the Orks would adapt to fight the Tyrannids. True, but that's not the same as evolving, which occurs over centuries and involves hundreds if not thousands of adaptations. Not only this, the Tryannids can evolve much faster than any other known race in the galaxy, and if there's one that can do it even quicker, you can bet that'll change once the Tyrannids eat them. Which leads me to my next point, Orks can only Loot planets. Tyrannids consume them entirely. Any planet lost to the Green Tide only becomes a greater asset to the Great Devourer, but vs versa, any planet lost to the Tyrannids, is gone forever. Not only this, but the planets that are devoured give far more resources to the Tryannids and much faster than the Orks. Metals and stone all provide valuable minerals that are invaluable to the Tyrannids and are leeched, if not scoured clean along with the biomass of a fallen planet. It takes time to build, mine, refine, and then finally forge weapons and materials Orks would need to fight Tyrannids, because unlike every other force in the galaxy, the Tyrannids deny them of their greatest asset, the ability to Loot and continue the war effort, because they aren't particularly good at making their own weapons. I know someone is going to post the pic of a Mekboy riding a looted Carnefex, and apart form its virtual impossibility in the lore, the materials of the Ork's riding platform are in relatively short supply considering the other races (except for Chaos in the Eye of Terror) would either all be dead or consumed for this to happen. In short, the vast supplies of the galaxy favor the Tyrannids way more than they do the Orks. Therefore Tyrannids are far more adaptable than Orks are, and given the time constraints of pitting two enemies with virtually limitless power, it's going to be a very, very, very long war to sort out. Well beyond the time that it's going to take for the entire Tryrannid race evolving to become an aethema to the entire Ork race no matter what battlefield adaptation it can think of as it eventually runs out of things to Loot as the Tyrannids continue to destroy them and everything else.
Going back to the whole living thing I mentioned earlier. The Tyrannid race itself is geared towards the extinction of all other life. It is the dominant life form of the known universe even beyond the ambitious and formidable race that are the Orks. It achieves this by evolution, brutal efficiency, the permanent denial of others to gain resources, and even more importantly: unity of purpose. Orks strive for war. That's pretty much it. Even under one banner there will always be infighting, rivalries, brawls, and even civil wars to prove to each other their superiority. It's basically how one get's promoted to sergeant. You kill your sergeant. It's not efficient. It's not methodical. It may be effective in the 40k universe as it weeds the Ork race to be tough and strong, but against the Tyrannids it's suicide. Every available asset must be deployed at all times against the Tyrannid race or else they will steamroll over you, consume you, and then use your chummy bits to make more chummy bits, which in turn makes... yeah.
Though the Tryannids can be splintered momentarily from the Hive Mind, they will never fight against themselves as soon as a synapse creature regains it's link to the Hive Mind and is no longer feral. The Orks on the other hand would never be united long enough to fight a war that would last for millennia or more. It's just not going to happen under any circumstance, because Orks are Orks. They like killing. And if they're aren't killing Tyrannids, they're killing each other.
Alright, that's end of Portion 1. Here's the summary:
Argument portion 1, the Tyrannids win because they can evolve faster, are more united, vastly more efficient, and deny resources more effectively.
Argument portion 2 in case anyone wants to ask is: Time, Genetics, Biological Warfare, and Logistics.
I can go on...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
riplikash wrote:
Really the main difference between the two is the difference between raiders and cities. The ork cycle is self perpetuating. An ork world will keep producing more orks until its star goes out. They sacrifice short term gains for long term ones.
Tyranids instead strip a planet bare. While this provides massive short term resource gains, they wont reap nearly as much out of the world total. And as with any raiding culture, they can only maintain their system by perpetuating the raiding cycle.
You see this same tradeoff in the individuals of each species. Orks benefit from experience and growth, tyranids just produce what they want.
If we assumed both forces were even it would all come down to how the initial battles turn out. If the Tyranids could win the initial battles and maintain momentum they would win, as the Orks could not match the Tyranids raiding economy. If the orks superior defensive ability and stability ever broke the Tyranids war momentum, they would lose, as they could not match the orks more stable economy.
Interesting, I like this argument considering the Orks primarily loot things as their strategy for rearmament. I think it's more accurate to say that both sides are a raiding culture. One from a desire to survive, the Tyrannids, and the other to thrive, the Orks.
If they ever unplugged the emperor he would become a god of chaos, he would be so pissed at what the lords of terra have done in his name and making him into a deity that he would first deal with them and then be focused on the gods of chaos. I do not think that the imperium of man now or for a long while after the Emperor of man finally leaves his veggie body will they ever be able to fully unite and mobilize against the other races. I believe that the IOM will become like the Eldar, I think their high time has come and gone and their light will fade from the galaxy like the Eldar.
As for your logic on the nids winning over the Orks, I believe your logic is flawed. I am not saying there is an obvious answer, but I do believe the way Orks were originally genetically designed by the Brain Boyz and Old ones, that they are built to adapt the environment they live in to survive and thrive. As it states since Rogue Trader and 2nd ed. Wherever Orks go, fungus, Squigs and runts crop up too. It is true that lootas and death skulls do loot other armies things, but they do not kill a planet lifeless and move on, they just keep infecting other systems, so I do not believe they fit the raider category.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/16 23:44:05
Armies
Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Eldar Corsairs, Orks, Tyranids, Genestealer Cult, Chaos, Choas Space Marines, Tau, Sisters of Battle, Inquisition, Necrons, Space Marines, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Imperial Knights, Dark Angels, Imperial Guard, Ad Mech, Knights, Skaven, Sylvaneth
Good argument so I accept your challenge sir of giving reasons why the orks will not lose this fight if they lose at all.
First off their has never been an Ork empire that has all orkdom bowing down to one ork. There have been several massive empires that have had huge warbosses but not one single empire. So yeah that isnt that big of a deal at this moment. Next is a good challenge that I have found a safe gaurd through which the orks can protect themselves against the mind controlling parasites. That is the very spores that the orks use to reproduce. Not only do the spores reproduce when they die but it happens through their entire lives so they have a Micro shield to protect them from most micro things. Now I bet when you read this that you will say "That doesnt matter the spore things will offer no real resistance" then I humbly offer you option number two where the orks would probibly notice the other ork to be acting strangly and not feel right because he is either cut off from or muffle the waaaagh energies (just like what happens to orks who have been infected by genestealers, they dont feel orky) which means they will kill him soon to instantaneously when the parasite has taken the orks brain and has a new body. Next is the adaptability of tyranids you see since the ork race as a whole are close range oriented you would think that the hive mind would just make better armor but that would mean putting more bioresources into a unit like the gaunt. The hivemind is alot of things but being wastful is not one of them. See if you gave every creature better armor to survive better then you would be losing resources cause you would have less number of those units. Even if you just gave those better armor to the carnies it would be a wast still cause their armor is already good enough plus their are meant to take out vehicles, doesnt matter how much armor you have on if you cant even reach the target and even if you did then it wouldnt matter then cause then you wouldnt have the resouces\troops to push your advantage. Thats another one down last one I beleive. This is it even if the tyranids do take a world the orks can still live on it and use it for their reproduction purposes cause orks dont need air to live the spoors Imo can live anywhere including dead planets which then create fungus which then creats an atmosphere over time which then creates the orkoid chain of life. so yeah thats the last one and Im tired !!!
3 things:
1. The psychology of an Ork is valid, but my point remains unanswered, even if the Tyrannids cannot truly infest Orks to do their bidding, they can infect them, weaken them, and kill them either by their biological agents or by the hands of other Orks. A dead Ork is one less fighter against the biological machine that is the Tyrannid race. Orks cannot do this against the Tyrannids. 2. If just a single Ork is captured or converted by the Tyrannids, yes, just one, the Tyrannids can exploit the genetic material to bioengineer a perfect Tyrannid that is an "Anti - Ork", this is because of the basic genetics of asexual reproduction limits the genetic variety of the Green Horde. Biological weapons, parasites, and even virus's made in the spawning vats of the Tyrannids would lay low the Orks. A single virus would decimate an Ork population because it would be like the American Indian's fighting small pox in the 1600's. They have no natural immunity, and because the pathogen works faster than Orks evolve (from sexual reproduction) they would be slain to the last spore. 3. Alright, so Orks can grow themselves in even the harshest of conditions... what you've described happening (terraforming by Orkish growth) only means one thing. Orks are little more than a tough semi-spikey fungus, and ultimately an UNLIMITED amount of food for the Tyrannid race. If I were part of the Tyrannid conscious, it wouldn't take me very long to recognize that this genetic quirk of being able to grow more of me from seemingly just radiant energy from stars would mean that my paramount concern would be to acquire the genetic code that allows my minions foodstuff to do this without resisting it being eaten and once I do.. because it is my nature to discover how, you can bet it will spell the doom of the race I stripped the genetics from.
As for Eiluj the Farseer, (I can't figure out the multi-quote tool lol) you're right that Orks don't strip the life from planets, but they are essentially raiders, not because of necessity, but because of their desire to. In fact it's probably more accurate to describe the Orks as raiders and pirates, and the Tyrannid race as a scourge, or plague that depends on a host to survive. It's really just a definition we're arguing over, not the fact that it makes no difference in the argument that Tyrannids would still win and take the whole galaxy with them.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/05/17 01:12:03
Gargantuan wrote:Tyranids could be almost endless or they could be just the hive fleets that are here now, nobody knows how many tyranids there are, same for the Orks
We have a good idea how bad the Ork infestation is in the galaxy.
The only sectors that do not have a heavy Ork infestation are the ones centered around the Eye of Terror. The heaviest Ork infestations (whom have enough Orks, easily, to stop a Hive Fleet in its tracks) are around the galactic core.
A dead Ork is one less fighter against the biological machine that is the Tyrannid race. Orks cannot do this against the Tyrannids.
Actually, a dead Ork means that a dozen more will pop up soon.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/17 01:09:24
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
A dead Ork is one less fighter against the biological machine that is the Tyrannid race. Orks cannot do this against the Tyrannids.
Actually, a dead Ork means that a dozen more will pop up soon.
Which only means 12 more things to infect and make more food. By your measurement the Tyrannid race would have a food supply that would rise by a factor of twelve once it took an Ork held planet. That, or raise an infected army of Orks under the command of the Hive Mind from a single parasite.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 01:15:32
A dead Ork is one less fighter against the biological machine that is the Tyrannid race. Orks cannot do this against the Tyrannids.
Actually, a dead Ork means that a dozen more will pop up soon.
Which only means 12 more things to infect and make more food.
If it can. The Tyranid race has limited resources, the Orks do not. The Orks also have a constantly developing and unpredictable level of technology that is in many ways superior to every other race in the galaxy-- even to the Necrontyr in some levels (such as in shielding and tractor beams).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 01:18:26
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
A dead Ork is one less fighter against the biological machine that is the Tyrannid race. Orks cannot do this against the Tyrannids.
Actually, a dead Ork means that a dozen more will pop up soon.
Which only means 12 more things to infect and make more food.
If it can. The Tyranid race has limited resources, the Orks do not. The Orks also have a constantly developing and unpredictable level of technology that is in many ways superior to every other race in the galaxy-- even to the Necrontyr in some levels (such as in shielding and tractor beams).
The Ork's technology is also as unpredictable as it is volatile. And as you said, there is a known number of Orks in the galaxy. As far as Orks resources are concerned, they are just as limited, if not more limited than the Tyrannids, because they are known. For all we know the Tyrannid race may be stemming from another galaxy or even several thousand, and the only resources they do not have, are those they have not yet taken from other races.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 01:25:10
A dead Ork is one less fighter against the biological machine that is the Tyrannid race. Orks cannot do this against the Tyrannids.
Actually, a dead Ork means that a dozen more will pop up soon.
Which only means 12 more things to infect and make more food.
If it can. The Tyranid race has limited resources, the Orks do not. The Orks also have a constantly developing and unpredictable level of technology that is in many ways superior to every other race in the galaxy-- even to the Necrontyr in some levels (such as in shielding and tractor beams).
The Ork's technology is also as unpredictable as it is volatile.
DemetriDominov wrote:And as you said, there is a known number of Orks in the galaxy.
Which is constantly increasing. Also? Orks exist outside of this galaxy, as probes sent beyond the galaxy have constantly run in to Ork signals.
DemetriDominov wrote: As far as Orks resources are concerned, they are just as limited
Orks can spawn on asteroids. You underestimate them.
DemetriDominov wrote:For all we know the Tyrannid race may be stemming from another galaxy or even several thousand, and the only resources they do not have, are those they have no yet taken from other races.
Fanboyish speculation doesn't make for a good argument. For all we know, the Tyranids are just running here because everywhere else the Ork infestation is so large that they cannot overcome them.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
*Yes orks might kill themselves there by starving the parasites, but in a few short months the ork population will not only return to normal but will even skyrocket, because ork spoores come out of a ork bodie the most when they die so killing themselves is helping the population grow not hindering it at ALL!!!!!!!!
*2To create a virus or a parasite do to that is gonna take sometime that ultimatly 1 take up to much bio-resources or 2 might have that chance of completly messing up the orks genetic structure where they became dangerous for the tyranids to eat which is something the hive mind doesnt want to happen at all (yngaarl genestealers)also lets not forget bout the pain boyz remeber for 600 teeth per minute can cure any disease.
*3Yes this has come up many times in discussions and is still fought over today too. but as for me I say this, if the hivemind did that that would be a bad thing for the tyranids cause 1that would make them a colonised race which would leave all the gaunts without synapse(which they could then get picked off till the warriors come which could take a while) 2 then the tyranids would lose their greates asset EVOLUTION. They evolve by being born from the norn queens, If they became fungus reproduced then they would lose their abilities to evolve like the way they do.(there is a tyranid unit that uses the ork genome for a weapn the name of the unit is the biovore.
Automatically Appended Next Post: [quote=Melissia For all we know, the Tyranids are just running here because everywhere else the Ork infestation is so large that they cannot overcome them.
I like this way of thought right here!!!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 01:44:12
DemetriDominov wrote:And as you said, there is a known number of Orks in the galaxy.
Melissia wrote:Which is constantly increasing. Also? Orks exist outside of this galaxy, as probes sent beyond the galaxy have constantly run in to Ork signals.
2 things for that. 1. They could be just like the probes themselves... rocketed out into the universe for no apparent reason than simply to see what's out there. 2. The exact same thing could be said about the Tyrannids, only they don't give off signals, they smother them, so unless you're looking for them you would never find them.
Melissia wrote:Orks can spawn on asteroids. You underestimate them.
Do I? There isn't a place Tyrannids can't spawn either, given enough time they could probably live in lava. I'd like to see an Ork try that.
Melissia wrote:Fanboyish speculation doesn't make for a good argument. For all we know, the Tyranids are just running here because everywhere else the Ork infestation is so large that they cannot overcome them.
I'm not sure if that's reverse pyschology or a blunder on your part. There has been speculation for both the Tyrannids running from something (sentient things, starvation, ect.), but there has also been solid evidence that Imperial scholars suspect that other galaxies have been consumed by the Tyrannids. Responding with a compensatory remark as bold as Orks being the driving force behind the Tyrannids invading this galaxy seems unsupported and a falsification of a Orkish fanboy.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/05/17 01:49:21
DemetriDominov wrote:And as you said, there is a known number of Orks in the galaxy.
Melissia wrote:Which is constantly increasing. Also? Orks exist outside of this galaxy, as probes sent beyond the galaxy have constantly run in to Ork signals.
2 things for that. 1. They could be just like the probes themselves... rocketed out into the universe for no apparent reason than simply to see what's out there. 2. The exact same thing could be said about the Tyrannids, only they don't give off signals, they smother them, so unless you're looking for them you would never find them.
Melissia wrote:Orks can spawn on asteroids. You underestimate them.
Do I? There isn't a place Tyrannids can't spawn either, given enough time they could probably live in lava. I'd like to see an Ork try that.
Melissia wrote:Fanboyish speculation doesn't make for a good argument. For all we know, the Tyranids are just running here because everywhere else the Ork infestation is so large that they cannot overcome them.
I'm not sure if that's reverse pyschology or a blunder on your part. There has been speculation for both the Tyrannids running from something (sentient things, starvation, ect.), but there has also been solid evidence that Imperial scholars suspect that other galaxies have been consumed by the Tyrannids. Responding with a compensatory remark as bold as Orks being the driving force behind the Tyrannids invading this galaxy seems unsupported and a falsification of a Orkish fanboy. Got nothin for the probes part as for the spawnin everywhere that isnt nids first off because they have to be spawned from norn queens for them to evolve or upgrade or whatever you want to call it\ also just have to wait for the lava to cool to stone give it a couple of days and walla fungus!!!!!!! As for runnin from orks, that really isnt that fanboyish since the only races that we know of that are out of this galaxy are orks\nids.
*3Yes this has come up many times in discussions and is still fought over today too. but as for me I say this, if the hivemind did that that would be a bad thing for the tyranids cause 1that would make them a colonised race which would leave all the gaunts without synapse(which they could then get picked off till the warriors come which could take a while) 2 then the tyranids would lose their greates asset EVOLUTION. They evolve by being born from the norn queens, If they became fungus reproduced then they would lose their abilities to evolve like the way they do.(there is a tyranid unit that uses the ork genome for a weapn the name of the unit is the biovore.
Who said the Ork genome would be used for creating a new Tyrannid? Oh yes.. I did. I also said in the massive text that you missed reading that when the Tyrannids figure out how to create an Orkish Tyrannid, it would be an unlimited food source, that as Melissa has now vehemently pointed out, can grow anywhere. Which means the Tyrannids could evolve a new food that would essentially be the Tyrannid's new and greatest host. This is completely plausable since it seems that the Tyrannids have already been tampering with the Ork genome and when it unlocks this untapped virtually limitless food supply... for the sixth time on this thread and I cannot stress it enough, why the hell has no one even attempted to challenge me on this issue?! - The Tyrannids will own the Orks.
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willhman wrote:Got nothin for the probes part as for the spawnin everywhere that isnt nids first off because they have to be spawned from norn queens for them to evolve or upgrade or whatever you want to call it\ also just have to wait for the lava to cool to stone give it a couple of days and walla fungus!!!!!!! As for runnin from orks, that really isnt that fanboyish since the only races that we know of that are out of this galaxy are orks\nids.
Then what of a norn queen with the genetic makeup to live in a molten planet like Vulcan? Orks are basically screwed there...
"That we know of."
Truly, we are an ignorant people to believe that the only possible way that the Tyrannids are here... are because of the Orks over all of the infinite possibilities of the universe, there is no other explaination than, "Oh, Orks and Tyrannids... must be the Orks then." What if the Tyrannids just ate all the Orks in the other galaxy they came from lol?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/17 02:07:35
Do I? There isn't a place Tyrannids can't spawn either, given enough time they could probably live in lava. I'd like to see an Ork try that.
Tyranids cannot "spawn anywhere". They can only consume the resources of other biologicals and use that material to form new beings. Orks don't have that limitation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 02:17:46
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Do I? There isn't a place Tyrannids can't spawn either, given enough time they could probably live in lava. I'd like to see an Ork try that.
Tyranids cannot "spawn anywhere". They can only consume the resources of other biologicals and use that material to form new beings. Orks don't have that limitation.
They can spawn anywhere their norn queens are. The just don't spawn as liberally as Orks do, that's really the only difference.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 02:25:22
Do I? There isn't a place Tyrannids can't spawn either, given enough time they could probably live in lava. I'd like to see an Ork try that.
Tyranids cannot "spawn anywhere". They can only consume the resources of other biologicals and use that material to form new beings. Orks don't have that limitation.
They can spawn anywhere. The just don't spawn as liberally as Orks do.
And they require biological resources to create new Tyranids, a limitation that Orks have shown that they do not possess.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and queens are kinda connected to their bioships and are really rare they would be a wast of resources to do that
One more thing why would the tyranids wast resources on fungal food that takes up alot of energy to create the orkoids get the nutrients they need from the planetoids they are spawned on but since tyranids are constantly moving they dont have the time to wait for their food to grow so waste of time and resources!!!!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 02:35:57
Melissia wrote: They require biological resources to create new Tyranids, a limitation that Orks have shown that they do not possess.
K I have a question then. All life must be sustained from something. What are Orks sustained by?
First spawns the fungus, then spawns the squigs who feed on the fungus, then spawns the snotlings who care for the squigs, then spawn the gretchin who build in preparation for the Ork Boyz, who spawn last with a full blown Orkoid ecosystem for them-- fungus and squigs to eat, snotlings and gretchin to boss around, and other Boyz to fight with.
Furthermore, in many instances Orks take the laws of physics to be something more of a suggestion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 02:37:16
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote:
They require biological resources to create new Tyranids, a limitation that Orks have shown that they do not possess.
K I have a question then. All life must be sustained from something. What are Orks sustained by?
First spawns the fungus, then spawns the squigs who feed on the fungus, then spawns the snotlings who care for the squigs, then spawn the gretchin who build in preparation for the Ork Boyz, who spawn last with a full blown Orkoid ecosystem for them-- fungus and squigs to eat, snotlings and gretchin to boss around, and other Boyz to fight with.
Furthermore, in many instances Orks take the laws of physics to be something more of a suggestion.
I <3 you Melissia. I can argue with you all day.
Again, all you've proven is that Orks are really just an unlimited source of biomass ready to be harvested by the Tyrannids. Physics notwithstanding, to the Tyrannids, the Orks are merely their perpetual energy machine. If they can grow anywhere, there is nowhere the Tyrannids will not find a way to harvest them.
Melissia wrote: They require biological resources to create new Tyranids, a limitation that Orks have shown that they do not possess.
K I have a question then. All life must be sustained from something. What are Orks sustained by?
First spawns the fungus, then spawns the squigs who feed on the fungus, then spawns the snotlings who care for the squigs, then spawn the gretchin who build in preparation for the Ork Boyz, who spawn last with a full blown Orkoid ecosystem for them-- fungus and squigs to eat, snotlings and gretchin to boss around, and other Boyz to fight with.
Furthermore, in many instances Orks take the laws of physics to be something more of a suggestion.
I <3 you Melissia. I can argue with you all day.
Again, all you've proven is that Orks are really just an unlimited source of biomass ready to be harvested by the Tyrannids. Physics notwithstanding, to the Tyrannids, the Orks are merely their perpetual energy machine. If they can grow anywhere, there is nowhere the Tyrannids will not find a way to harvest them.
... IF the Tyranids can beat them, which they have not been able to so far.
Sure, they've overwhelmed minor worlds which did not have a strong Ork presence, but in the case of major Ork worlds, the Tyranids have been stalled every time, and sometimes even pushed back..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 02:47:43
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
That may not be necessarily be because of the Orks. As you said, the major Ork systems are near the center of the galaxy. The Tyrannids are mostly still in the eastern fringes and have to pass the through much of the Imperium and entire complex wars not just involving the Orks who have continuously failed to exterminate humanity over the past 40,000 years.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/17 02:52:04
DemetriDominov wrote:That may not be necessarily be because of the Orks.
It is specifically stated to be because of the Orks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 02:52:41
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Wait, what? Where? It's not in the rulebook, which I might add on page 166 states, "Behind the Hive Fleets lie the barren husks of a dozen galaxies already consumed."
I wasn't being a fanboy! I was actually right, the Tyrannids really aren't to be underestimated.
Oh and we forgot to mention about the whole unity thing.. What happens when the Tyrannids kill the Warboss? The WAAGH falls apart and the Orks again splits into anarchic factions.
DemetriDominov wrote:Oh and we forgot to mention about the whole unity thing.. What happens when the Tyrannids kill the Warboss? The WAAGH falls apart and the Orks again splits into anarchic factions.
Another one comes in to play. The Orks gladly unite against non-Orks.
It's much like the Tyranids quickly try to replace any lost Synapse creatures, except each Ork CAN think for themselves, unlike each Tyranid. Every Ork has the potential to be the next warboss.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/05/17 03:28:43
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote:Another one comes in to play. The Orks gladly unite against non-Orks.
It's much like the Tyranids quickly try to replace any lost Synapse creatures, except each Ork CAN think for themselves, unlike each Tyranid. Every Ork has the potential to be the next warboss.
The only problem is that Orks are as likely to fight each other as they are to fight the greater enemy, and that would spell the doom of whole systems when under Tyrannid attack. Tyrannids can also think for themselves when separated from the Hive Mind. They are instinctual beasts that become as unpredictable as the Orks when their link to the greater mind has been severed.
Has anyone considered that a conflict of this magnitude with the possibility of both armies losing control of large portions of their forces could simply not have a clear victor?
The orks and nids would simply create an unending meat grinder that could continue for decades, maybe centuries.
When dealing with a conflict like that there are simply too many variables - both races have a clear chance of winning
razor5647 wrote:Has anyone considered that a conflict of this magnitude with the possibility of both armies losing control of large portions of their forces could simply not have a clear victor?
The orks and nids would simply create an unending meat grinder that could continue for decades, maybe centuries.
When dealing with a conflict like that there are simply too many variables - both races have a clear chance of winning
I've said that this conflict would last millennia because it would. It has to, to have a definitive end. But it would under no circumstance be a stalemate. It could take a hundred thousand years but one creature would eventually devour or destroy the other. Then the more important question: under the control of one all powerful race, what would the daemons of chaos do? I mean really I see your point, after everything is said and done, what difference does it make if Chaos isn't destroyed, there's really no way of destroying it without the Imperium and the Emperor, and so long as it exists, Daemons will prevail over everything else regardless of how long it takes the victor to emerge.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 04:01:50
are da best!!! 
50th Caurusian Infantry - 2000pts