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DemetriDominov wrote:The only problem is that Orks are as likely to fight each other as they are to fight the greater enemy

No they aren't. If there's no enemy around they'll fight Orks. If there's an enemy to be fought, they'll quickly unite and fight them instead.

DemetriDominov wrote: I'm not sure if that's reverse pyschology or a blunder on your part. There has been speculation for both the Tyrannids running from something (sentient things, starvation, ect.), but there has also been solid evidence that Imperial scholars suspect that other galaxies have been consumed by the Tyrannids. Responding with a compensatory remark as bold as Orks being the driving force behind the Tyrannids invading this galaxy seems unsupported and a falsification of a Orkish fanboy.

Solid evidence from what sources? lol

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

DemetriDominov wrote: I'm not sure if that's reverse pyschology or a blunder on your part. There has been speculation for both the Tyrannids running from something (sentient things, starvation, ect.), but there has also been solid evidence that Imperial scholars suspect that other galaxies have been consumed by the Tyrannids. Responding with a compensatory remark as bold as Orks being the driving force behind the Tyrannids invading this galaxy seems unsupported and a falsification of a Orkish fanboy.

Solid evidence from what sources? lol

How bout the Rulebook. Page 166.

"Fire topedoes!",
BLAM!
"Another Eldar hull breached! may he go down with his craftworld sir, maybe in death we won't have to requote things!"
"They only come back as wraithlords sire!"
"Damnit, load the tubes again!"

DemetriDominov wrote:

Melissia wrote:Another one comes in to play. The Orks gladly unite against non-Orks.

It's much like the Tyranids quickly try to replace any lost Synapse creatures, except each Ork CAN think for themselves, unlike each Tyranid. Every Ork has the potential to be the next warboss.

The only problem is that Orks are as likely to fight each other as they are to fight the greater enemy, and that would spell the doom of whole systems when under Tyrannid attack. Tyrannids can also think for themselves when separated from the Hive Mind. They are instinctual beasts that become as unpredictable as the Orks when their link to the greater mind has been severed.

They only fight each other when there is no else around to fight...


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DemetriDominov wrote:

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

DemetriDominov wrote: I'm not sure if that's reverse pyschology or a blunder on your part. There has been speculation for both the Tyrannids running from something (sentient things, starvation, ect.), but there has also been solid evidence that Imperial scholars suspect that other galaxies have been consumed by the Tyrannids. Responding with a compensatory remark as bold as Orks being the driving force behind the Tyrannids invading this galaxy seems unsupported and a falsification of a Orkish fanboy.

Solid evidence from what sources? lol

How bout the Rulebook. Page 166.

"Fire topedoes!",
BLAM!
"Another Eldar hull breached! may he go down with his craftworld sir, maybe in death we won't have to requote things!"
"They only come back as wraithlords sire!"
"Damnit, load the tubes again!"

I love it when someone says 'SOLID' evidence and speculate in the same sentence.... What an oxymoron...

Hmm I am tired. Too many people to correct apparently. There is solid evidence on page 166 of the Rulebook, that the Tyrannids have consumed other galaxies. The Lore would explain this as a speculation and observance of Imperial Scholars unless you yourself can find a better source for the lore.

They think and speculate that they have done this there is not solid evidence of this because no one from our galaxy has left the galaxy, hence it can NOT be proven, YOUR supposed proof is not proof, you call us ignorant when it is really the pot calling the kettle black..

DemetriDominov wrote:Hmm I am tired. Too many people to correct apparently. There is solid evidence on page 166 of the Rulebook, that the Tyrannids have consumed other galaxies.

I think you misunderstand the concept of "solid evidence".

By that argument, there's solid evidence that Orks exist outside the galaxy, too.

Thus, my argument-- Tyranids are really running from Orks!

Fine. It's my own speculation / interpretation of how to put a statement on pg 166 of the vrekking BRB in an Imperial interpretation of the Lore as they would see it... and as I have quoted it, it's not speculation its an indisputable fact made by the game developers.

Thus, both your arguments are invalid. Try again.

By fluff views.
TYRANIDS WILL WIN!
This is because as the tyranids and orks die rippers will eat the bodies, stealthylike and go to the digestion pools. The tyranids will continuously repopulate but so will the orks. After another 40k years the war will continue and none will win. STALEMATE!

grandcell2 wrote:By fluff views.
TYRANIDS WILL WIN!
This is because as the tyranids and orks die rippers will eat the bodies, stealthylike and go to the digestion pools. The tyranids will continuously repopulate but so will the orks. After another 40k years the war will continue and none will win. STALEMATE!

First I was like, yay!

Then I was like kay!

Then I was like..... hey?

How do you go from tyrannids will win.. to stalemate? Lmao.

DemetriDominov wrote:its an indisputable fact made by the game developers.

So is that the Orks are unstoppable.

DemetriDominov wrote:Fine. It's my own speculation / interpretation of how to put a statement on pg 166 of the vrekking BRB in an Imperial interpretation of the Lore as they would see it... and as I have quoted it, it's not speculation its an indisputable fact made by the game developers.

Thus, both your arguments are invalid. Try again.

Your reasoning is flawed it is laughable....
Anyone that is does not agree with your opinion, which is all that it is and they are 'wrong try again'
You have proven nothing, yet you think you have doomalopy

Melissia wrote:

DemetriDominov wrote:its an indisputable fact made by the game developers.

So is that the Orks are unstoppable.

Well if you want to get that knit picky of the BRB, it actually doesn't even say that in the Ork section. It tells of their brutality, their love of violence, and love of conquering others, and has nothing, not even the word "unstoppable" in the entire section. But in the Tyrannid section where my quote on pg 166 is, on the very next page, the last sentence reads: "Unrelenting and all but unstoppable, the Tyranid race represents the eventual doom of every other species that inhabits the galaxy."

Case in point, by the hands of those who write the rules, guide the lore, and oversee the destinies of the entire 40k universe like Tzneetch himself the Tyranids (whom I haven't even spelled right this entire time) will win regardless of any argument you have against it. To fight it, is to fight the fates themselves.


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Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

DemetriDominov wrote:Fine. It's my own speculation / interpretation of how to put a statement on pg 166 of the vrekking BRB in an Imperial interpretation of the Lore as they would see it... and as I have quoted it, it's not speculation its an indisputable fact made by the game developers.

Thus, both your arguments are invalid. Try again.

Your reasoning is flawed it is laughable....
Anyone that is does not agree with your opinion, which is all that it is and they are 'wrong try again'
You have proven nothing, yet you think you have doomalopy

I have proven unquestionably that you are wrong and that I am right. Im not sure how much clearer it can get that the words I used were not my own, but those who actually develop the game...

DemetriDominov wrote:

Melissia wrote:

DemetriDominov wrote:its an indisputable fact made by the game developers.

So is that the Orks are unstoppable.

Well if you want to get that knit picky of the BRB, it actually doesn't even say that in the Ork section. It tells of their brutality, their love of violence, and love of conquering others, and has nothing, not even the word "unstoppable" in the entire section. But in the Tyrannid section where my quote on pg 166 is, on the very next page, the last sentence reads: "Unrelenting and all but unstoppable, the Tyranid race represents the eventual doom of every other species that inhabits the galaxy."

Case in point, by the hands of those who write the rules, guide the lore, and oversee the destinies of the entire 40k universe like Tzneetch himself the Tyranids (whom I haven't even spelled right this entire time) will win regardless of any argument you have against it. To fight it, is to fight the fates themselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

DemetriDominov wrote:Fine. It's my own speculation / interpretation of how to put a statement on pg 166 of the vrekking BRB in an Imperial interpretation of the Lore as they would see it... and as I have quoted it, it's not speculation its an indisputable fact made by the game developers.

Thus, both your arguments are invalid. Try again.

Your reasoning is flawed it is laughable....
Anyone that is does not agree with your opinion, which is all that it is and they are 'wrong try again'
You have proven nothing, yet you think you have doomalopy

I have proven unquestionably that you are wrong and that I am right. Im not sure how much clearer it can get that the words I used were not my own, but those who actually develop the game...

Not really I think you have no way of seeing any view other than what you think is right.... there are many of us out there that have been playing this game and reading its fluff since before you were even an itch in your daddies pants

Since both races are seen as unstoppable in the fluff then both of you are right and the battle will likely come down to the last boy vs the last hormagaunt and who wins will be nothing more than a roll of the dice. If you where to repeat it it may end with the opposite result, both races are simply two similar in capability to decisively say which race would come out on top without wild speculation.

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

Not really I think you have no way of seeing any view other than what you think is right.... there are many of us out there that have been playing this game and reading its fluff since before you were even an itch in your daddies pants

I have no respect for someone who calls themselves an elder and then demands respect. Earn it by leveling with me instead of believing yourself automatically of higher status than me simply because you believe you've been doing this longer than I have, or go back and be a troll to somebody else. My view is my own and I am defending it. What have you done? Nothing but being that annoying itch that has no opinion but one against my own.

I think this is starting to move beyond debate and beginning to get to full of insults. I'm to lazy to go get my tyranid codex and rule book right now, but I beleive it talks about a war in there where orks and tyranids were fighting and the ork leader was assasinated the empire fell apart as orks began to infight, while they were fighting tyranids. which seems to blow apart the argument that orks don't fight when other races are around (although I might be remembering the extract wrong).

This is a bit of a riduculous argument, if you go by the orks codex the orks win, if you go by the tyranids the tyranids win. In the ork codex if they unite no one will be able to stop them. In the tyranid codex nothing short of the galaxy uniting against them will be enough to stop them. Basically its an argument that will never be answered and I don't think these threads (as much fun as they are) will ever decide them.

Then we have the perfect philosophical debate tainted only by pride and prejudice of ideas. Alas if only it were more pure of a debate.

While Tyrannids do evolve rapidly and adapt to many given circumstances, I do have a problem with the idea that they would ever use the Orks or the genetics of Orks as a "endless biomass resources".
Of all things tyranids are hunters/gatherers but they just don't have the mind of farmers.
And this is the next problem they have. Though they are indeed numerous enough to fight a long war, they cannot afford to battle for single planets/systems too long. They HAVE to win every battle, because they burn through their ressources at tremendous speed, so they need the conquered planets to devour it's biomass to make profit from it. If the battle rages to long, what seems to be possible against Orks, they will have problems to just breake even.
That said, Orks just can keep on and on. Even if an Ork and a tyrannid force destroy each other completely, it's the orks that will rise afterwards from the spores they left behind.

So, main argument is: tyranids have to win in a given amount of time and can't afford a stalemate over centuries, while Orks can.

captainliger wrote:I think this is starting to move beyond debate and beginning to get to full of insults. I'm to lazy to go get my tyranid codex and rule book right now, but I beleive it talks about a war in there where orks and tyranids were fighting and the ork leader was assasinated the empire fell apart as orks began to infight, while they were fighting tyranids. which seems to blow apart the argument that orks don't fight when other races are around (although I might be remembering the extract wrong).

This is a bit of a riduculous argument, if you go by the orks codex the orks win, if you go by the tyranids the tyranids win. In the ork codex if they unite no one will be able to stop them. In the tyranid codex nothing short of the galaxy uniting against them will be enough to stop them. Basically its an argument that will never be answered and I don't think these threads (as much fun as they are) will ever decide them.

Sir it was the octarius sector, and it wasnt the top warboss who got assasinated it was a up and coming warboss who was really good at raids and stuff. I agree that these things can get to competitve but they are to fune not to do it, plus this is like sport, in the heat of the arguement some things are said that everyone wishes they werent said at all. As for me I am an ork player through and through and I gotta say these are really even if no clear victor is found.

To the ripper thing the orks have squigs and grots to defend their feet\dead bodies so that is a moot arguement

The Orks wouldn't WANT to win. The idea of an unending war against a merciless and uncountable foe is every Orks dream It would be the biggest, most destructive war to ever occur.

Think of the collateral. The Boyz need to make if from one side of the galaxy to where the Super-Warboss and the 'nids are. So we have a mass migration of Orks from everywhere in the galaxy to a single point... Everywhere behind that line is now destroyed.

The galaxy would just become the Orks playground, they would fight until the end of time.

'ERE WE GO 'ERE WE GO 'ERE WE GO!
Der be kumpin ter do ahn' shootin' ter do. Dem bugz fink deyz no da best but dey aint ever seenz da boyz group up all big ahn propaz. WAAAAAAAAAGH

DemetriDominov wrote:

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

Not really I think you have no way of seeing any view other than what you think is right.... there are many of us out there that have been playing this game and reading its fluff since before you were even an itch in your daddies pants

I have no respect for someone who calls themselves an elder and then demands respect. Earn it by leveling with me instead of believing yourself automatically of higher status than me simply because you believe you've been doing this longer than I have, or go back and be a troll to somebody else. My view is my own and I am defending it. What have you done? Nothing but being that annoying itch that has no opinion but one against my own.

I never demanded respect, nor do I think you are capable of respecting anyone but yourself

Since the beginning of this debate I have not said I think there is a clear winner here, however I have pointed out that what you state as 'Solid' evidence is not and you are the one who initially became beligerant

Indeed, apparently disputing that your evidence is solid is insulting.

The new nid codex does not say they have consumed other galaxies. It says they may have, or they may be running from something or a few other things.

Currently there is not fact that they have killed whole galaxies. There is a guess they might have.

Melissia wrote:Indeed, apparently disputing that your evidence is solid is insulting.

Why wouldn't I be insulted when someone scoffs at a quote I pulled from the rulebook? I'd probably quit playing with the person on TT if they said to me "Oh, btw, assaulting and shooting in this game, I know it says it in the book, but it doesn't count so we're not using it." It's disrespectful and immature to dispute those things, and it has no bounds being in the argument in the first place.

And as for the most recent codex. It's the most recent codex, therefore we have conflicting things and more than likely the new will beat out the old. It could also be a mix of both, considering that the absence of the quote from the rulebook in the codex does not void the statement itself. Indeed, it's plausible that the Tyranids although possibly running from something, could have ran through several galaxies to do it.

The new Codex makes it a possibility, not a fact.

Haven't denied it, in terms of the new codex anyway.

Anyone with "I am legion" in their sig and acts incredibly hostile doesn't warrant respect.

It's earned, my friend. You don't get it automatically.

So... Unless I'm mistaken, the fluff already says there are Orks and Tyranids fighting in massive stalemates already, because neither can gain a foothold, while the IoM just kinda watches and hopes they kill each other. So with that all said, looks like the Orks and Nids are evenly matched and a winner wont be crawling out anytime soon, both are too streamlined for killing.

If that happened not only would the Tryannids gain control of many Orks simply because of brain bugs implanted in them separating them from the rest of Ork kind because the Hive Mind can smother it like warp energies with the Shadow of the Warp

Orks aren't connected to the warp, and can their species can tell when another ork isn't well... Orky, that's why genestealer orks aren't running around, Orks don't like it on a cellular level. But to continue on the warp aspect, the nids can take out all kinds of warp energies, but WAAAGH energies are different in that they only effect orks

Regardless... these fights just kinda run into a stalemate, the one thing the orks have up on the nids is that they can team up, Hive Fleets don't become friends, multiple WAAAGHs do though