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This is good news.. maybe they'll ALSO remember that at least 50% of the market uses android devices!

Charax wrote:Hopefully the first step will be to encourage GW to change their IP Policy:

So, does that mean by selling the SM codex in elec format GW is counterfeiting its own products? Can they sue themselves?

ShumaGorath wrote:

Altruizine wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

pretre wrote:Very interesting! Maybe this digital agency will handle their online presence and social media presence meaning they will have one!

Having done that sort of work they'll only have the presence that GW allows them to have. That means that GW itself would have to start opening up in a more personable fashion (very unlikely) or start providing consistent news and content drips that would make social media useful to them (also unlikely). I suspect they're just going to start tweeting sameday product launches. I doubt GW considers these tools as anything other than direct marketing. These people probably won't be handling things like FAQ releases or the webstore businesses, so I don't really see much use in an agency like this in GWs strategy.

Well, at least there will be somebody on the payroll and in the building to tell them "You guys are ****ing this up" when they default to their tried and true methods of failure.

Honestly, this is pretty cool. They would not have hired an agency if their plan was merely to keep rolling out digital rulebooks.

Having been in that business that's not actually how that goes. The agency will just stay quiet unless they were also hired on to be a consultancy for these matters.

I realize there's an element of "don't speak unless you're spoken to" but isn't it fairly common for the corp to ask the agency for general or informal input on the way things are going? Obviously only in regards to their online presence; I'm not suggesting the agency will ever be in a position to recommend price changes or the Wood Elves' desperate need for a ranked unit.

Altruizine wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Altruizine wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

pretre wrote:Very interesting! Maybe this digital agency will handle their online presence and social media presence meaning they will have one!

Having done that sort of work they'll only have the presence that GW allows them to have. That means that GW itself would have to start opening up in a more personable fashion (very unlikely) or start providing consistent news and content drips that would make social media useful to them (also unlikely). I suspect they're just going to start tweeting sameday product launches. I doubt GW considers these tools as anything other than direct marketing. These people probably won't be handling things like FAQ releases or the webstore businesses, so I don't really see much use in an agency like this in GWs strategy.

Well, at least there will be somebody on the payroll and in the building to tell them "You guys are ****ing this up" when they default to their tried and true methods of failure.

Honestly, this is pretty cool. They would not have hired an agency if their plan was merely to keep rolling out digital rulebooks.

Having been in that business that's not actually how that goes. The agency will just stay quiet unless they were also hired on to be a consultancy for these matters.

I realize there's an element of "don't speak unless you're spoken to" but isn't it fairly common for the corp to ask the agency for general or informal input on the way things are going? Obviously only in regards to their online presence; I'm not suggesting the agency will ever be in a position to recommend price changes or the Wood Elves' desperate need for a ranked unit.

Not as much as you might think. Advertising and marketing is often more about shmoozing and relationships than actual throughput on the service. If the marketer doesn't want to risk client loss they might not attempt to push for anything since it doesn't always make for the best lunch conversation and it's less risky to have an initiative stagnate or fail when it was exactly what the client wanted then it is to risk pushing for more involvement client side only to have the campaign fail anyway. Given that the agency has other seemingly successful clients they may be in a more advantageous position for making suggestions though. It really varies by client and agency.

Mad4Minis wrote:So, does that mean by selling the SM codex in elec format GW is counterfeiting its own products? Can they sue themselves?

If there is a way, I'm pretty sure they would.

Anyone can sue themselves if they really wanted to make their lawyer rich. Stop trying to be clever.

Testify wrote:Anyone can sue themselves if they really wanted to make their lawyer rich. Stop trying to be clever.

I think they should send themselves a cease and desist order first.

It's entirely possible of course that the GW e-products released so far could be the trail products produced by the Agency.

Well it seems like a sensible move. GW can't be expected to keep up to date with the latest digital trends and and agency like this can point them in the right directions. As for the Android debate, I think they do need to explore other avenues but the iBook experience is pretty unique in that it's interactive and not a PDF. I don't know of a reader on the Android that can do what iBooks does. Other than that the other route would be to make an app for each codex, which would be a pain at first but then it would imply being able to update. Of course that could be a reason not to do apps. Having said that there are plenty of people on the Warhammer fantasy circuit that are using iPads and the Quartermaster app (an army builder type thing with fan made lists). Apple has the benefit of a locked in system and until another OS can offer that I doubt GW will extend beyond the iPad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

notprop wrote:It's entirely possible of course that the GW e-products released so far could be the trail products produced by the Agency.

Probably, I think they are also basing a lot on the digital progress of Black Library. I think BL digital products have been a big success, I certainly think very carefully before buying a dead tree book from BL but have been known to impulse buy their digital products. £20 for the audio versions of Horus Heresy books is not to be sniffed at. Now if they could give us an e-codex with the fluff read by Toby Longworth I'd be really interested. Imagine if you touched a picture and the side text was spoken with sound effects added. Of course being on an iPad you only need to use a finger and thumb to enhance the images (ooer mrs)

99% certain, if they wanted to have an android version of the ipad SM codex, they would have to build the whole thing as an app from the ground up.

Much easier to do for just iPad at the moment, since Apple has an app that lets you easily build interactive books, iBooks Author. I've been messing with it at work for our brochures, it's pretty cool.

So yeah, there would need to be something like that for Android, or they'd have to build an app from scratch. I'd really like to see em skip the whole app thing and build it as a complete interactive website that does all the same thing. Alls ya need nowadays is HTML5, CSS3 and a few Jquery doodads.

Necros wrote:99% certain, if they wanted to have an android version of the ipad SM codex, they would have to build the whole thing as an app from the ground up.

If memory serves, there are similar tools not locked to a single device, although they cost a fair bit more to get licensed. The reason for locking it into the particular format it is now is because of DRM.

ah .. I figured it was because they wanted to use the apple thing since it's free

I want to look into the same thing for my game, but it needs to be cross platform. I love apple but they're not the be all end all. That's why I was planning to do it all with HTML, so it'll work on just about anything.

BrookM wrote:They're representing Mount bloody Everest! GW is in good company now.

Everest is a windows and double glazing company

How long before they fall out? It's one thing to appoint them it's another for GW to actually take any real notice of what they have to say. Good luck to them that's all I can say.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Altruizine wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Altruizine wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

pretre wrote:Very interesting! Maybe this digital agency will handle their online presence and social media presence meaning they will have one!

Having done that sort of work they'll only have the presence that GW allows them to have. That means that GW itself would have to start opening up in a more personable fashion (very unlikely) or start providing consistent news and content drips that would make social media useful to them (also unlikely). I suspect they're just going to start tweeting sameday product launches. I doubt GW considers these tools as anything other than direct marketing. These people probably won't be handling things like FAQ releases or the webstore businesses, so I don't really see much use in an agency like this in GWs strategy.

Well, at least there will be somebody on the payroll and in the building to tell them "You guys are ****ing this up" when they default to their tried and true methods of failure.

Honestly, this is pretty cool. They would not have hired an agency if their plan was merely to keep rolling out digital rulebooks.

Having been in that business that's not actually how that goes. The agency will just stay quiet unless they were also hired on to be a consultancy for these matters.

I realize there's an element of "don't speak unless you're spoken to" but isn't it fairly common for the corp to ask the agency for general or informal input on the way things are going? Obviously only in regards to their online presence; I'm not suggesting the agency will ever be in a position to recommend price changes or the Wood Elves' desperate need for a ranked unit.

Not as much as you might think. Advertising and marketing is often more about shmoozing and relationships than actual throughput on the service. If the marketer doesn't want to risk client loss they might not attempt to push for anything since it doesn't always make for the best lunch conversation and it's less risky to have an initiative stagnate or fail when it was exactly what the client wanted then it is to risk pushing for more involvement client side only to have the campaign fail anyway. Given that the agency has other seemingly successful clients they may be in a more advantageous position for making suggestions though. It really varies by client and agency.

This is correct. The agency may at least try to be consultative, but if the client says "we want this," they'll get it because they're paying and there aren't many agencies that are keen on turning away clients. The ceiling for the agency's work is often more determined by the client's desires than the agency's abilities.

Which is to say that it'll be interesting to see the social media strategy given that GW seems to prefer secrecy and unidirectional communication.

notprop wrote:It's entirely possible of course that the GW e-products released so far could be the trail products produced by the Agency.

Is that likely? Apparently the Space Marine Codex was more than a year in the making.

Two questions: 1) Does this mean we can get an official forum back again, which can also ban discussion of squats? 2) Will my ban from the previous forum be carried over to the new one?

Seriously I don't know why they don't just make their rules 100% on line. I am more of an RPG guy so I may not get all of the in's and outs of war gaming so take this with a grain of salt. But if they moved to a completely online model they could make changes to rules almost like patches to video games. Increasing the cost of something or quickly addressing a rule that was unbalanced. On the small scale you could think of it like making chapter approved put directly into the rules every month. On the big scale they would have monthly rules updates that fix problems and introduce minis for all factions. They could move from their codex with a couple of waves of minis thing which seems sort of outdated and flawed. Honestly i don't know why everyone isn't doing this sort of thing already

travelnjones wrote:Seriously I don't know why they don't just make their rules 100% on line. I am more of an RPG guy so I may not get all of the in's and outs of war gaming so take this with a grain of salt. But if they moved to a completely online model they could make changes to rules almost like patches to video games. Increasing the cost of something or quickly addressing a rule that was unbalanced. On the small scale you could think of it like making chapter approved put directly into the rules every month. On the big scale they would have monthly rules updates that fix problems and introduce minis for all factions. They could move from their codex with a couple of waves of minis thing which seems sort of outdated and flawed. Honestly i don't know why everyone isn't doing this sort of thing already

yes, that way my army composition would have to change at 5 times my painting speed.

yay.

Awesome! Now GW will have even more outlets to tell us nothing from!

Well, as the Hobbit is nearing release GW may hit the end of their self imposed news embargo.

There are two Hobbit films, remember? So we've got at least another year/year-and-a-half of this super-secret bull gak.

Great. So now they can charge us out the bum for .pdfs of codices. Though from what I hear of the C: SM digital codex, it's pretty sweet.

d-usa wrote:Well, as the Hobbit is nearing release GW may hit the end of their self imposed news embargo.

Sorry if this sounds a dumb question, but why is this? Honestly It's always puzzled me.

I understand the the company bringing out the Hobbit want it's stuff kept secret, fair enough, but how on earth can they make another company keep stum about their own realeases?

Nothing in Fantasy/40K is anything like the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings, won't impact on sales, and can't in anyway give away the storyline (which a lot of people will know anyway from reading the book), so what harm can it do?

I just don't get it.

Any way, back O/T, I hope GW are actually going to use this opportunity properly, or they could have just found a nice big hole to pour all that unwanted spare cash into.

My understanding is that previous leaks from GW resulted in some characters from the movies being revealed before the movie actually opened. So leaks from GW about the Lord of the Rings don't just affect the games but also the actual movie by revealing stuff that was kept secret.

So the story is that in order for GW to get the rights to the Hobbit they had ro prove that they can keep a lid on leaks.

All just hearsay though.

Before I start I know I'm about to use a word that GW isn't used to using... logic. See I said it!! Anyway my thoughts are this:

GW is on record as saying they are about the models, not the rules, that's where they make their money. So logic would say that electronic versions of their rules & codex's should of been the next step along time ago. Stripped down, rules only versions should of been made available years ago. With tablets and smart phones now mainstream it's even more urgent that they do this. There are plenty of gamers who would still want a printed copy, with all the fluff in it. I doubt this will happen though.

d-usa wrote:My understanding is that previous leaks from GW resulted in some characters from the movies being revealed before the movie actually opened. So leaks from GW about the Lord of the Rings don't just affect the games but also tha actual movie by revealing stuff that was kept secret.

So the story is that in order for GW to get the rights to the Hobbit they had ro prove that they can keep a lid on leaks.

All just hearsay though.

You say this, but I've heard it said that the complete lack of news is to try and create a 'kids at Christmas' kind of enthusiasm.

Although, that makes absolutely no sense, as that kind of feeling was because of the anticipation that you knew something was coming. Not just because you were only told one week before it arrived. Also, most of us here aren't 7 years old.

I do find it mildly amusing though that we are 10 days away from GW's biggest release (possible ever) and the general, casual public don't know a thing about it. It's like there are agents of disorder within the company, presumably wearing Privateer Press underpants, who are trying to reduce sales as much as possible.

That's just what I heard, but if GW is just as secret about why they are so secret we have to come up with something.

I doubt if they even know why they are doing it.

Pacific wrote:

d-usa wrote:My understanding is that previous leaks from GW resulted in some characters from the movies being revealed before the movie actually opened. So leaks from GW about the Lord of the Rings don't just affect the games but also tha actual movie by revealing stuff that was kept secret.

So the story is that in order for GW to get the rights to the Hobbit they had ro prove that they can keep a lid on leaks.

All just hearsay though.

You say this, but I've heard it said that the complete lack of news is to try and create a 'kids at Christmas' kind of enthusiasm.

Although, that makes absolutely no sense, as that kind of feeling was because of the anticipation that you knew something was coming. Not just because you were only told one week before it arrived. Also, most of us here aren't 7 years old.

I do find it mildly amusing though that we are 10 days away from GW's biggest release (possible ever) and the general, casual public don't know a thing about it. It's like there are agents of disorder within the company, presumably wearing Privateer Press underpants, who are trying to reduce sales as much as possible.

You say that, but do you think it will really have any bearing on whether people buy it or not? For instance, we have 20+ page threads or however many it is, going on about potential rule changes and people getting annoyed and heated over certain rumours but will that stop them from buying it? I doubt it - they'll buy the book and then complain about how crap it is. I think GW know full well that people will buy this release whether they deign to leak details or not. Likewise, I think they know full well that the new ruleset could be utter crap and it still won't make any noticeable difference to sales.

The absolute only way to voice your objections to GW, whether it be dissatisfaction with the price, the rules, their business practice or whatever, is top stop buying their products. IF you really feel strongly about it then stop enabling that behaviour by supporting it monetarily. Quite simply, it is the only way the message will get through.

travelnjones wrote:Seriously I don't know why they don't just make their rules 100% on line. I am more of an RPG guy so I may not get all of the in's and outs of war gaming so take this with a grain of salt. But if they moved to a completely online model they could make changes to rules almost like patches to video games. Increasing the cost of something or quickly addressing a rule that was unbalanced. On the small scale you could think of it like making chapter approved put directly into the rules every month. On the big scale they would have monthly rules updates that fix problems and introduce minis for all factions. They could move from their codex with a couple of waves of minis thing which seems sort of outdated and flawed. Honestly i don't know why everyone isn't doing this sort of thing already

The thing you have to understand is that for the most part every business decision a game company makes (and especially GW) there is a big chunk of gamers who will lament and decry that decision. The reality is, gamers as a whole just don't agree on how games should be produced, so no matter what is done, some people will dislike it.

When it comes to putting rules exclusively online, you have to remember that there is still a HUGE, HUGE chunk of people that either: never go online, those that do go online, but not for any gaming related purposes, and those that do go online for gaming related purposes but only very infrequently.

So if you stop making physical books and just put the rules online, you compromise your ability to sell your games to those types of people. I know to those of us who regularly go online it seems nutty in this day and age that so many people still exist like this, but it is absolutely the truth.

Now certainly a company can make physical rulebooks AND put them online where they update them regularly, but then you have the issue of the physical rulebooks not matching the online versions. And again, a huge segment of gamers absolutely HATE showing up to games expecting the game to be played one way only to find out their opponent has a 'new ruling' that invalidates their planned strategy.

This is the real danger about updating your rules and even your FAQs to frequently. If you update to frequently you anger the people who don't go online very much and if you don't update frequently enough you anger the people who do go online all the time (because those gamers tend to want stuff updated as quickly as possible).

Jayce_The_Ace wrote:

Sorry if this sounds a dumb question, but why is this? Honestly It's always puzzled me.

I understand the the company bringing out the Hobbit want it's stuff kept secret, fair enough, but how on earth can they make another company keep stum about their own realeases?

Nothing in Fantasy/40K is anything like the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings, won't impact on sales, and can't in anyway give away the storyline (which a lot of people will know anyway from reading the book), so what harm can it do?

I just don't get it.

Any way, back O/T, I hope GW are actually going to use this opportunity properly, or they could have just found a nice big hole to pour all that unwanted spare cash into.

GW have signed a reportedly incredibly punitive NDA with New Line Cinema based on what happened with a leak during the LOTR films. If GW ends up leaking any Hobbit stuff then they would have to pay New Line some huge fee.

So GW went about tightening its ability to control information in every manner, and that has unfortunately meant an almost draconian lockdown on information about everything they release.

Pacific wrote: Also, most of us here aren't 7 years old.

Then you're over GWs target audiance, please move along.

Maby they can try and get GW to give out free stuff, this company represents pringles and they always have "Buy X and type the codes in www.XYZ.com to win Y" style things.