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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 02:25:32
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Any models with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase.
he can manifest only
one witchfire power - regardless of its subtype (see below).
However, if he can shoot more than one ranged weapon per
turn, he can use a different witchfire power in place of each
(assuming he has enough Warp Charge).
Can he fire more than 1 ranged weapon?
Yes
That's the requirement which the model has met.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 02:28:47
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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But Gunslinger isn't a rule the model has, it's a property of the pistols. When not shooting the pistols, the model has no capability to shoot two weapons.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
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The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
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Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 02:44:09
Subject: Re:Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes
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It does not matter if it is a property of the pistols, he still has the ability to fire two weapons, which is the only requirement for him to shoot two witchfires
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 02:47:48
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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He only has that property WHEN shooting two pistols. When he's not, he doesn't.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 02:49:05
Subject: Re:Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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thisisnotpancho wrote:It does not matter if it is a property of the pistols, he still has the ability to fire two weapons, which is the only requirement for him to shoot two witchfires
An ability the model does not have if using anything other than pistols.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 03:29:51
Subject: Re:Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Regular Dakkanaut
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He has a permission to fire two pistols. Pistols are weapons. Therefore he meets the requirement of being able to shoot two witchfires.
Lets say a psycher has two pistols and a bolter. He can choose to shoot:
-one pistol and one witchfire shot
-two pistol shots
-two witchfire shots
-one bolter shot
-one witchfireshot
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/25 03:32:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 03:42:09
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
In The depths of a Tomb World, placing demo charges.
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Mannahnin wrote:He only has that property WHEN shooting two pistols. When he's not, he doesn't.
I think Mannahnin explains it pretty clearly, nowhere in the Gunslinger entry does it give permission for him to fire anything else twice.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 03:58:54
Subject: Re:Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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Polecat wrote:He has a permission to fire two pistols. Pistols are weapons. Therefore he meets the requirement of being able to shoot two witchfires.
Lets say a psycher has two pistols and a bolter. He can choose to shoot:
-one pistol and one witchfire shot <------- I disagree with this .... if he fores one pistol he can fire ONLY another pistol. That is the permission given via gunslinger
-two pistol shots <-------- Agreed
-two witchfire shots <--------- Disagree not accessible via Gunslinger rule
-one bolter shot <------- Agree
-one witchfireshot <------- Agree
I have to disagree with the Gunslinger rule allowing you to fire Psyker powers 2 times in one round as the rule only allows it to be pistols.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/25 03:59:20
Now, we like big books. (And we cannot lie. You other readers can’t deny, a book flops open with an itty-bitty font, and a map that’s in your face, you get—sorry! Sorry!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 04:31:32
Subject: Re:Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Regular Dakkanaut
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However, if he can shoot more than one ranged weapon per
turn, he can use a different witchfire power in place of each
Can you shoot two pistols per turn?
Yes.
Are pistols weapons?
Yes.
You dont have to fire the pistols to be able to fire both of them. You only need the permission to fire them.
You are given permission to fire two weapons (pistols) per turn, so now you can "use a different witchfire power in place of each", as quoted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 04:33:38
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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The Hive Mind
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You're given permission to fire two weapons per turn as long as they're both pistols.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 04:41:17
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes
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rigeld2 wrote:You're given permission to fire two weapons per turn as long as they're both pistols.
Yes, but he can use witchfire in place of the pistols, exactly as if he were firing two
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 04:44:44
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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The Hive Mind
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Except that statement isn't supported by rules.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/25 04:44:55
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 04:48:17
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Regular Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:You're given permission to fire two weapons per turn as long as they're both pistols.
The actual rule is
Any models with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase.
This follows the normal rules for shooting.
You seem to suggest that those pistol shots need to be the actual pistol shots and that they can not be replaced with witchfire shots. There is no such restriction in the rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 04:57:28
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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The Hive Mind
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Polecat wrote:rigeld2 wrote:You're given permission to fire two weapons per turn as long as they're both pistols.
The actual rule is
Any models with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase.
This follows the normal rules for shooting.
You seem to suggest that those pistol shots need to be the actual pistol shots and that they can not be replaced with witchfire shots. There is no such restriction in the rules.
It can fire both.
Both what?
Pistols.
If you're firing a whitchfire power, are you firing a pistol?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 05:09:40
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Regular Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:
If you're firing a whitchfire power, are you firing a pistol?
Irrelevant question.
The permission to fire two pistols does not disappear when you replace the shots from the pistols for witchfire shots.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 05:18:24
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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The Hive Mind
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Polecat wrote:rigeld2 wrote:
If you're firing a whitchfire power, are you firing a pistol?
Irrelevant question.
The permission to fire two pistols does not disappear when you replace the shots from the pistols for witchfire shots.
Except it does. You're given permission to fire two pistols.
If you're not firing two pistols, you don't have two shooting attacks.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 05:30:54
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Regular Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:
Except it does. You're given permission to fire two pistols.
If you're not firing two pistols, you don't have two shooting attacks.
You are given permission to fire two weapons that just happen to be pistols.
Then you are given permission to fire a witchfire shot in place of any weapon shot.
Nowhere in the gunslinger rule does it say that those pistol shots can not be replaced with another shots. If you are given permission to replace them, then you can replace them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 05:33:07
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Grisly Ghost Ark Driver
Some Tomb World in some galaxy by that one thing in that one place (or Minnesota for nosy people)
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if the model has the potential to shoot 2 weapons then he can witchfire twice if he can shoot both pistols (he can) then he can shoot 2 witchfire
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"Put your 1st best against you opponents 2nd best, your 2nd best against their 3rd best, and your 3rd best against their 1st best"-Sun Tzu's Art of War
"If your not winning, try a bigger sword! Usually works..."
10k
2k
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 05:59:26
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Just curious, what ML 2 psyker has 2 pistols ?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 06:01:00
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Chaos IIRC, think they can trade their Sword for a plasma pistol  Pew Pew
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 06:13:01
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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The Hive Mind
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Polecat wrote:rigeld2 wrote:
Except it does. You're given permission to fire two pistols.
If you're not firing two pistols, you don't have two shooting attacks.
You are given permission to fire two weapons that just happen to be pistols.
Then you are given permission to fire a witchfire shot in place of any weapon shot.
Nowhere in the gunslinger rule does it say that those pistol shots can not be replaced with another shots. If you are given permission to replace them, then you can replace them.
It gives you permission to fire both.
Both what? Pistols.
If you aren't firing a pistol, you cannot fire both.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 06:48:35
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Regular Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:
It gives you permission to fire both.
Both what? Pistols.
If you aren't firing a pistol, you cannot fire both.
You are given permission to fire both pistols, and then you choose to replace those shots with witchfire.
No rules are broken, because you are given permission to replace the shots with witchfire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 06:49:28
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Grisly Ghost Ark Driver
Some Tomb World in some galaxy by that one thing in that one place (or Minnesota for nosy people)
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it says you CAN fire it does not say you must fire both so he can use 2 witchfire powers because he CAN shoot 2 different weapons
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"Put your 1st best against you opponents 2nd best, your 2nd best against their 3rd best, and your 3rd best against their 1st best"-Sun Tzu's Art of War
"If your not winning, try a bigger sword! Usually works..."
10k
2k
500 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 08:26:23
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Polecat wrote:rigeld2 wrote:
It gives you permission to fire both.
Both what? Pistols.
If you aren't firing a pistol, you cannot fire both.
You are given permission to fire both pistols, and then you choose to replace those shots with witchfire.
No rules are broken, because you are given permission to replace the shots with witchfire.
It seems to me that the rules ARE broken, because there is an assumption that you choose the weapon you're going to fire, then you gain all the associated permissions, then you suddenly decide to replace it with another weapon while retaining the initial permissions. Think of it this way:
"I'm firing two witchfire powers."
"You can't."
"Well, I can because I'm actually firing two pistols, but then replacing the two pistols with a witchfire power each."
"But you get to keep the permission to fire both guns despite not firing any guns at all?"
I can't think of a response that lies within the rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 12:05:46
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Unit1126PLL wrote:Polecat wrote:rigeld2 wrote:
It gives you permission to fire both.
Both what? Pistols.
If you aren't firing a pistol, you cannot fire both.
You are given permission to fire both pistols, and then you choose to replace those shots with witchfire.
No rules are broken, because you are given permission to replace the shots with witchfire.
It seems to me that the rules ARE broken, because there is an assumption that you choose the weapon you're going to fire, then you gain all the associated permissions, then you suddenly decide to replace it with another weapon while retaining the initial permissions. Think of it this way:
"I'm firing two witchfire powers."
"You can't."
"Well, I can because I'm actually firing two pistols, but then replacing the two pistols with a witchfire power each."
"But you get to keep the permission to fire both guns despite not firing any guns at all?"
I can't think of a response that lies within the rules.
If that wasnt how it worked, tben NOBODY could use psychic powers.
Please refer to page 12, the rules for shooting. Now please show me the step where you are required to pick a weapon and declare that you are using it.
Hint, hint.... There isnt one.
So that wierd occurence you desribed is ACTUALLY how all psychic powers must work in an order of effect sense.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 12:06:46
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard
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I can the permission isn't for two weapons, it specifies pistols.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's akin to claiming the +1 attack for a pistol when armed with a specialist weapon.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/25 12:08:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 13:50:22
Subject: Re:Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Lieutenant General
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Polecat wrote:
However, if he can shoot more than one ranged weapon per
turn, he can use a different witchfire power in place of each
Can you shoot two pistols per turn?
Yes.
Are pistols weapons?
Yes.
You dont have to fire the pistols to be able to fire both of them. You only need the permission to fire them.
You are given permission to fire two weapons (pistols) per turn, so now you can "use a different witchfire power in place of each", as quoted.
You are given permission to fire two weapons of a very specific type (pistols). You're trying to change that very specific permission into a general permission. You can't do that. Its like saying that by being allowed to drive one direction on a one-way street allows you to drive both ways. That is not the case.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 13:51:21
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Unit1126PLL wrote:
"But you get to keep the permission to fire both guns despite not firing any guns at all?"
The permission is right here: "Any models with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase".
It does not go away. You have the permission as long as you have two pistols. You dont need to fire the pistols to be able to fire both of them. You only need to have them to be able to fire them.
Then you have the permission to replace them with witchfire shots.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 13:55:33
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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The Hive Mind
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Polecat wrote: Unit1126PLL wrote:
"But you get to keep the permission to fire both guns despite not firing any guns at all?"
The permission is right here: "Any models with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase".
It does not go away. You have the permission as long as you have two pistols. You dont need to fire the pistols to be able to fire both of them. You only need to have them to be able to fire them.
Then you have the permission to replace them with witchfire shots.
So you're agreeing that if I had two nonpistol weapons, you could fire both of those?
You're reading it wrong. The rule requires firing both pistols. If you don't fire both pistols but make 2 shooting attacks instead, you're not firing both pistols.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 13:59:22
Subject: Dual Pistol, Dual Witchfire Shooting
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Lieutenant General
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Except once again, you're ignoring the very specific requirements that Gunslinger only applies to pistols. The rule does go away if you're not firing two pistols just like the double strength goes away if a model equipped with a power fist decides to use a different weapon in close combat.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/25 14:01:05
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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