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I'm happy to pay the money- I just wish there was An open channel of communication. Even one way, from GW to us. I wish I knew their intent with many of their decisions.

3.

The current GW is not good.

The models are mostly fine, but everything just feels lazy and hideously overpriced.

The setting is great but it is a thing that has been established already. It does not make the company itself good.

It listens far too little to feedback and far too much to short-term $$$.

Also ^ that. They are put to shame by, say, those Eternal Crusade guys and their openness.

GW makes good quality products, but they are all ridiculously overpriced. Also, the rules seem quickly thrown together and unbalanced just to help GW sell their overpriced models.

They also make bad business decisions and only look at the short term.

I didnt want to start a separate thread for this but I just cant believe that tyranid warriors cost 51 dollars a box and SM centurions cost 78. That just seems to be ridiculous. That type of stuff irritates me as a customer. I love the hobby, but the company makes me constantly grit my teeth with this type of senselessness.

I gotta say this. Supply and demand man. Whether I like capitalism or not (I don't actually have an answer it has flaws like any other system although due to my upraising I tend to think it is better) matters not. Do I think that the models cost to much? Yes but I am a consumer. I must say, my problem comes not from the prices but the start-up prices. The rulebook isn't cheap and the need for a codex makes this only worse. Battleforces, building an army, paints, etc... it's all so much. It has a horrifically high entrance cost and that doesn't factor the imbalanced nature of the codices. Even with a perfect starting book there are so many traps and ancient armies that still grate along. It's a highly time intensive hobby that is difficult to get into.

Along with that, they are unreliable. Whilst not all their models are perfect, many are good. Not the best in existence but most models that are better are not really built for the table. The control on the fluff is admittedly sub par and inconsistent to an aggravating point that even that no fluff is canon gets complex and confusing, is terrible at front pr, can't get with the times, and tries to be the big guy in court cases and paranoid and zealous.

But then there is their PR whenever you need repairs or fixes and good gosh is it absolutely lovely! And for all its flaws 40k has a charm to its design and fluff.

I gave them an 8. When my Xmas order of a Ball Predator, Or Trukk, and new special effects paints were lost by fed ex they sent out a whole new order, raised it to next day shipping, AND threw in a FREE Bane blade (the one with 8 options). They did it quickly and was very friendly.

Great thread and some interesting comments. Just some points to throw in the mixer:

The people saying about the expensive prices, what is you business background to criticise pricing policy? Do you buy Coke or Pepsi sold for a 2000% mark up and complain to them!

To the ones saying the overzealously protect their intellectual rights, why would they not they are a business!

Tand to all the people saying that there should be a way for them to listen to the gamers. HOW exactly, we can't agree on anything in on thread let alone getting the whole of Dakka to agree. You obviously have never seen anything that has been designed by a committee.


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Oh I gave them a 10 by the way. I earn a good wage so if i want to spend £30 on a model i can. I do things because i enjoy them, if i don't i wouldn't do them. I enjoy the setting and playing for fun against a couple of mates.

It is a lot cheaper hobby than golf or following a football team!

Because there is such a thing as price gouging. I understand that no one is forcing me to buy models, but the fact of the matter is this game was expensive 10 years ago when I first started buying minis. Now, the models have more than doubled in some cases while the materials have become undeniable cheaper.

You used to be able to get boxes of minis for 12.50. Now that doesn't even get you a single model in some cases. That's pretty absurd.

I enjoy painting, but I feel like I've never been able to really get into playing the game because I can never get a solid group of people to spend the time and money. Its indefensible when you talk prices.

I don't get the point of having a 10 there (and neither a 1 or even 2 honestly). Then again I can't think of really a single company that is perfect nor absolutely terrible in every way.

In response to you madd_leeroy. Perhaps I don't have a background in it.... but I have to ask, how is making this game more expensive to start up good for the company? 50 dollar this 80 dollar that I can live with. But when starting the game costs a minimum of 100 dollars and the 100 dollars doesn't have balanced armies and aren't usually that great, and are 2 specific armies, and really not enough dice, I do throw question to it. Also some of the quality of brushes aren't so grand. It's more of the entry cost gets higher and higher and where does it stop. Now maybe I am absolutely wrong, but I can't help but feel that there are certain prices that will make most walk away. How is it that the rulebook unless bought in the 100 dollar starter box costs is a giant awkwardly huge $74.50 dollar book for just the rules. Then you need to buy the code for 49.50. This isn't even thinking about buying the models for the army! That isn't chump change even if it isn't the most expensive hobby.

Also I'm talking they try to protect intellectual rights they actually have no right to. The chapterhouse trials showed a lot of intellectual property GW claimed to have was anything but true. Oh and don't forget where GW sued some random book for being titled Spots the Space Marine: Defense of the Fiddler. Here's the thing GW, you don't own SM. It is a bland term that too many others have right to.

madd_leeroy wrote:
The people saying about the expensive prices, what is you business background to criticise pricing policy?

The common sense of realizing that it's not good for the long-term health of the game when a new player has to spend $500-1000 just to start playing the game.

To the ones saying the overzealously protect their intellectual rights, why would they not they are a business!

Because GW's "defense" of their intellectual "rights" goes way beyond what is necessary to protect their business interests. Sending C&D letters over some random author's use of "space marine" as if GW actually owns the concept (and no, they don't own it) accomplishes nothing besides damaging their own reputation. Sending C&D letters to fan sites that post leaked information that is legal under "fair use" laws accomplishes nothing besides throwing away free marketing hype and damaging their own reputation. Suing third-party bits manufacturers over IP they don't actually own the rights to accomplishes nothing besides throwing away a million dollars and damaging their own reputation. And none of these actions have any real legal merit behind them, it's entirely abuse of the legal system to send "we can pay for lawyers and you can't" orders to claim privileges that they aren't entitled to.


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VanHallan wrote:
Because there is such a thing as price gouging.

Yes, but it doesn't have anything to do with GW. Price gouging only applies to situations where someone is selling essential items at a huge markup, such as selling bottled water for $100 a bottle in the aftermath of a natural disaster. The concept can not possibly apply to GW since they produce nothing but luxury items, and nobody would suffer any harm by being unable to afford their products.

8 for me.

The product is fantastic, I really don't think there is a better model out there than I've seen from them. Price is affordable in my eyes, and I'm a firm believer of you get what you pay for. The local store is very good, very helpful and fosters a good community spirit, and the manager plays regularly at the the local club as well and is well liked. Rules are wide ranged, and as a casual player I like the options to play different themed games, whether it be an attack on a fortification, a large force against a massive unit, or a straight up fight. The fluff is brilliant as well, can't praise that enough and is years ahead of any other.

Negatives; well the White Dwarf isn't as good as it once was, and not a huge fan of all these dataslates ( however there are exceptions, Cypher was very good) but that's my only small gripes.

I started the hobby with a Squat army in 1st before I get the usual comments

VanHallan wrote:
Because there is such a thing as price gouging. I understand that no one is forcing me to buy models, but the fact of the matter is this game was expensive 10 years ago when I first started buying minis. Now, the models have more than doubled in some cases while the materials have become undeniable cheaper.

You used to be able to get boxes of minis for 12.50. Now that doesn't even get you a single model in some cases. That's pretty absurd.

I enjoy painting, but I feel like I've never been able to really get into playing the game because I can never get a solid group of people to spend the time and money. Its indefensible when you talk prices.

Sorry VanHallen price Gouging must be an american phrase, i haven't heard it in the UK. You are missing the point, you are saying that prices have gone up, well yes name me some form of entertainment hat hasn't over the last 10 years. Proportionately is playing GW any more expensive than watching a football team? To go and watch Chelsea it costs me and my son £200 for the tickets and £150 travel and accommodation for an afternoon of entertainment. £30 a month buys me a new codex or box of figures. To play golf here at a good club costs £50 a month in fees alone, plus dress, clubs etc. To join a gym is £30 a month etc etc.

GW are a business first and foremost and if you look at their profits they seem to be a well run sustainable business.

I voted a 1 to offset the three 10's :S GW employees on here no doubt.

Honestly I don't know where to judge.

The GW that I once knew had fairer prices (still overpriced tho), better care for rules and balancing, and shops that created a friendly atmosphere and it seemed they took time into picking sociable nerds to manage their stores.


The current GW is pretty much the opposite, in every possible way, on the furthest end of the spectrum as well.

Currently I'd have to give them a 3, they do some things right but they run a company where you kind of need to do ALL the things right (or at least well), or the things you did right don't work either because everything else is wrong.

Price gouging is defined as charging way more than something is worth, it's just typically used in the context of essential items and after disasters.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was paying a bit for the big centerpiece models like Wraithknights but actually getting started was a reasonable cost. As I said it seems other companies can do this (Warlord and Mantic Games) so either GW is greedy, GW got robbed when they paid for their plastic molds, or the other companies are taking a profit hit by selling for less (doubt it as IIRC both these companies have ex GW people there so surely they know that they could sell at a higher price). Again when $165 will get you an entire army plus rule book from Mantic and $120 is needed just for the rules from GW before you buy a single model there is something VERY wrong somewhere. GW was always a bit pricy but at least before it was fairly reasonable compared to absolutely ridiculous now. $40 for the same ten guys that was $25 before and are roughly the same quality? What exactly are you paying the extra for? Apart from a few minor things the current Space Marine plastics are the same quality as the ones released in 3rd edition at a lower price.

The fact that so many people here are complaining about the prices really is a bit absurd. Not only is it capitalism at work, but there are online stores that give 10, 15, and even 20% off all purchases. Add in the fact that most of the price hikes were made in a time where Bitz sellers were springing up everywhere, and it's no wonder GW felt the need to increase prices. Prices people STILL paid.

The only reason I pay the actual GW price at all is to support my FLGS, which is owned by a friend. Before he opened the place, I purchased almost everything on Amazon, Ebay, or some other site where I could find great discounts.

Gw is getting a lot of things wrong, but I doubt maximizing profit is one of them. It's hard to blame a business for making money...

The problem with the pricing is not the fact they are maximising profit, it is the fact that there are other companies out there doing comparable things in wargaming with a much lower cost.

Take mantic for example. A lot of their models are on par with GW in quality, and are half the price. Their rules are available free, where GW charges £45 for a rulebook. They run sales and offers, where GW don't. The end result is that although GW is financially more successful, they lose the goodwill of the customer, whereas a large proportion of those who have had dealings with Mantic are willing to support and promote the company, which in the long run far better than the GW policy of 'take all we can get, give nothing back'.

 Paradigm wrote:
The problem with the pricing is not the fact they are maximising profit, it is the fact that there are other companies out there doing comparable things in wargaming with a much lower cost.

Take mantic for example. A lot of their models are on par with GW in quality, and are half the price. Their rules are available free, where GW charges £45 for a rulebook. They run sales and offers, where GW don't. The end result is that although GW is financially more successful, they lose the goodwill of the customer, whereas a large proportion of those who have had dealings with Mantic are willing to support and promote the company, which in the long run far better than the GW policy of 'take all we can get, give nothing back'.

Exactly. The problem isn't the prices period, it's that either they are lying or just greedy, and they constantly do it for poor reasons or often no reason at all. It's one thing to actually charge a price increase for a valid reason, it's another to just arbitrarily decide hey we can raise prices $10 and offer the same thing as before, especially when GW is the only company that does it (and that seems to be more because they can get away with it, and know that most people are locked into them). That's pretty much the definition of price gouging, even if it doesn't fall under that category legally.

 Paradigm wrote:
The problem with the pricing is not the fact they are maximising profit, it is the fact that there are other companies out there doing comparable things in wargaming with a much lower cost.

Take mantic for example. A lot of their models are on par with GW in quality, and are half the price. Their rules are available free, where GW charges £45 for a rulebook. They run sales and offers, where GW don't. The end result is that although GW is financially more successful, they lose the goodwill of the customer, whereas a large proportion of those who have had dealings with Mantic are willing to support and promote the company, which in the long run far better than the GW policy of 'take all we can get, give nothing back'.

Kudos to Mantic. Maybe one day companies like them will unseat GW. In the meantime, we're all still here complaining about Games-Workshop, so there must be something to this 40k game that we're interested in protecting.

Hi all.
I gave GW plc a 2 out of ten.
Peregrine summed up my feelings in his post.So I wont repeat it here.

 Voidwraith wrote:
The fact that so many people here are complaining about the prices really is a bit absurd. Not only is it capitalism at work, but there are online stores that give 10, 15, and even 20% off all purchases. Add in the fact that most of the price hikes were made in a time where Bitz sellers were springing up everywhere, and it's no wonder GW felt the need to increase prices. Prices people STILL paid.

The only reason I pay the actual GW price at all is to support my FLGS, which is owned by a friend. Before he opened the place, I purchased almost everything on Amazon, Ebay, or some other site where I could find great discounts.

Gw is getting a lot of things wrong, but I doubt maximizing profit is one of them. It's hard to blame a business for making money...

Not hard for me.

 Voidwraith wrote:
It's hard to blame a business for making money...

It sure is. It is, however, not hard to blame a business for the way it's making money.

A five. I can excuse the corporate greed and outrageous prices, but I can't forgive the insanely bad codex balance. The new nid book especially comes to mind.

As a company - 10/10.

Popular, long lived, really got to grips with charging lots for such a small amount of product. healthy turn over of product - to wit - codex and rule-set changes meaning they can keep fleecing players for their hard earned.

But no, really, they score a middling 6 or a 7 for old times sake.

madd_leeroy wrote:

VanHallan wrote:
Because there is such a thing as price gouging. I understand that no one is forcing me to buy models, but the fact of the matter is this game was expensive 10 years ago when I first started buying minis. Now, the models have more than doubled in some cases while the materials have become undeniable cheaper.

You used to be able to get boxes of minis for 12.50. Now that doesn't even get you a single model in some cases. That's pretty absurd.

I enjoy painting, but I feel like I've never been able to really get into playing the game because I can never get a solid group of people to spend the time and money. Its indefensible when you talk prices.

Sorry VanHallen price Gouging must be an american phrase, i haven't heard it in the UK. You are missing the point, you are saying that prices have gone up, well yes name me some form of entertainment hat hasn't over the last 10 years. Proportionately is playing GW any more expensive than watching a football team? To go and watch Chelsea it costs me and my son £200 for the tickets and £150 travel and accommodation for an afternoon of entertainment. £30 a month buys me a new codex or box of figures. To play golf here at a good club costs £50 a month in fees alone, plus dress, clubs etc. To join a gym is £30 a month etc etc.

GW are a business first and foremost and if you look at their profits they seem to be a well run sustainable business.

Let's talk about apples to apples. Comparing this hobby to a sporting event or a concert is hardly the same thing. You take a compnay that sells a product, such as a box of minis and another company that sells something else. What do you want to pick? Cars? Chocolate bars? Soft Drinks? Fast food?

All of those products have risen in price over the last 10 years, but they have not DOUBLED in price. 30 dollars for a single plastic librarian is absurd. I bought pewter Blood Angels special characters for around 12-15 dollars when I first started this hobby.

Now, those same models are made out of cheaper, flat out LOUSY material and they cost almost twice as much. For what? capitalism? no. In a proper capitalist system competition drives companies and consumers to find the MOST appropriate price. Not the maximum profit for the company. This is simply bad business and unjustifiable pricing. The fact that so many of you don't see it that way is a real laugh.

I play guitar, and let me tell you, Gibson makes a VERY expensive guitar. there are LOADS of companies that make quality instruments for less, but people still pay for the Gibson name. BUT even Gibson prices dont double in 10 years. I bought a les paul for 1700 dollars in 2000. Today that same guitar will go for about 1900, maybe as high as 2100.

But if they jacked that price to 3500 or some other absurd amount they'd lose market share, which is something GW doesn't have to worry about.... yet.

The price system is awful, regardless of who pays the piper. And its awful because they aren't justifying it in any legitimate terms, as others have said.

I gave them a 7. Their products are fantastic, and their staff are great (although they can be a bit pushy, keep trying to sell me stuff. I know it's their job, but if I wanted to get something I would).

However their prices are rocketing beyond reason (although this is understandable to a certain extent I suppose) and their rules atm are perhaps a bit too unbalanced or poorly thought out. It feels like extortion in short, and I think that if they're driving away even their hardcore fans from buying from them, then they're going to face problems in the future.

 StarTrotter wrote:
I don't get the point of having a 10 there (and neither a 1 or even 2 honestly). Then again I can't think of really a single company that is perfect nor absolutely terrible in every way.

.

I put 10 so its a real "what out of 10 would you rate it".
I didnt expect anyone to rate it a 10




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Oh also just to throw my thoughts in, the biggest reason i gave gw my score is because of how crappy the rules are becoming.
I mean, tyranids for example. what the heck is gw thinking? For one small example, the tyranid rippers. No one used them before, and so gw decided to make them more popular by.... INCREASING THE POINTS!!!!!! just rediculous.

8.

When it comes to the gaming industry, most companies focus either too hard on the 'gaming' aspect (TSR, Third Eye) and either go bankrupt or get acquired, or too hard on the 'industry,' and ignore game quality in favor of the almighty dollar.

Games Workshop is, bar none, the best company I've ever seen at walking the tightrope between the two. Their rules set, while not perfect, is constantly evolving, leaving each edition better than the last. The game is, while expensive, a game where your models are perpetually useful, (in all but a handful of rare circumstances) and edition/codex updates occur with enough time lapse to be reasonable, but swiftly enough (in most cases) to satisfy. Their customer support for their products simply cannot be beat.

Do I have issues? Certainly. I wish many of their older kits were in plastic, I wish they'd put out FAQs for the hardcover codexes, and of course I wish they were cheaper. Still, good company, especially compared to some of the others out there.

@Jimsolo.
'or too hard on the 'industry,' and ignore game quality in favor of the almighty dollar.'

You do not think this applies to GW plc? (Falling sales volumes for the last 8 years , and their ONLY responce is to increase product prices over the rate of inflation to make up the losses ).

They don't seem to care about how supply and demand work either. S&D would be - see sales dropping, lower prices while still maintaining profit. GW logic - sales dropping, raise prices for everything and especially the things people buy to offset the reduced sales elsewhere and keep the insane profit margins.

I did not rate is highly as I can't think of a single thing GW go that is good that other companies don't do so much better but I can think of a lot of terrible things GW, and only GW, do.