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And i'm really curious what you guys think.

oh, and please say why.

Hard to say.

On one hand, some of their product is so bad it's insulting and the company itself is incredibly incompetently managed, but on the other hand they are really good at dealing with faulty models, late arrivals, missing packages etc.

I voted a 2, and that's having put a lot of money into the company years ago. Main reason is that they don't seem to care anymore. They publish rules that don't seem tested and don't care about "codex creep", they constantly price hike their miniatures to the point where it's now ridiculous to even get started in the game and yet they claim that they want to sell to kids/teens (what teenager is going to be able to ask mom and dad for the $300-400 to just start playing??), and overall it just either is insane greed or they are in dire financial straits and trying everything and anything to turn a profit.

IMO it's a shame since the figures are good, but they should be priced more reasonably for somebody to start playing. When it costs you over $120 (rules + codex) just for the RULES you need, something is drastically wrong at the very foundation of the business' values when they don't see something wrong with that.

Compare that to something like Warlord Games, where you can get a starting army for like $120; a smallish army but enough to actually play a legal game, and then you expand that army with reasonably-priced units. With GW, you spend $120 for a handful of units that still doesn't give you enough to begin to play a game.

i tend to view gw as a customer rather than a hobbyist. As such i'm generally happy with their performance, on the model side of things anyway. They should be providing higher quality modelling tools though, particularly paint brushes, and the spray paint should be cheaper, but the actual pot paints i am very happy with.

I don't expect this poll to be favourable towards gw though. They've been zealously unpopular ever since i can remember, and i've never understood why. If you don't like what they make, don't buy it. Seems obvious to me.

I gave it a 6.

I really enjoy the game and the rules they put out, and my friends and I have been having a blast. Escalation is one of the best things that we've had happen in our group, and the release of Forge World's Legio Cybernetica stuff has given me cause to celebrate.

However, the prices are becoming unbearable, and the company itself does several things I dislike (acting like a huge jerk who can't get with the times) is unfortunate.

It's a good company. The staff are knowledgeable. The one near me told me the location of the nearest gaming club. And the one time I had a faulty product (a wood elf army book that fell apart faster than the wood elf army) it was quickly replaced.

Prices can be a pain, but then again a pair of jeans from Next can put you back £50, so in reality it isn't so bad seeing as the models you get will last a lifetime provided you care for them.

Tip to OP: Spellcheck

xruslanx wrote:
i tend to view gw as a customer rather than a hobbyist. As such i'm generally happy with their performance, on the model side of things anyway. They should be providing higher quality modelling tools though, particularly paint brushes, and the spray paint should be cheaper, but the actual pot paints i am very happy with.

I don't expect this poll to be favourable towards gw though. They've been zealously unpopular ever since i can remember, and i've never understood why. If you don't like what they make, don't buy it. Seems obvious to me.

well, except they are the ones who make the models for warhammer 40k. If I dont want to buy the models, then i dont play the game.
The reason htey are unpopular is for many things.
1) Pricing.
2) Making rules and war gear that are just plain dumb, and with the tyranids just rushing to put out rules that clearly weren't thought through enough and are just sad.

those are the 2 big ones for me, but there are others.

They have good customer service on the back end of logistics, that is "my model is broken, etc." but very poor on the front end.

They should have better communications with their customers and at lest give the appearance that they have any care of relationship with their client base.

The pricing and other things are just marketing decisions, although honestly, in my opinion not good ones
(they need to unify the game, and have a mass marketed loss leader version (i.e. kill team with prepainted models in target) of the game, then suck people in to hobby stores for the "bigger" game of "comat patrol, 40k battle, escalation, apoc, etc.).

It feels like a very short sighted company....which, to be honest that is may of them these days - always looking at next quarter's numbers.

Oh, and before anyone says "could you do better". Yes, yes I can....thats my day job...(I help struggling companies fix problem in marketing and supply chain - gw desperately could use my help...I would even give them a discount).

I gave them a 8. They are heavily investing in the product(s) I like (40K). They are doing this with a lot of fiction, supplements, models and rulesets. I like that they are updating all armies at a fast pace. This shows a real desire to grow their business and fan base. I know some of the stuff is wild but at least they are doing SOMETHING. I appreciate that. It takes a lot of time and money to do what they are doing. Agree with it or not they are adding variety to the game. I am not a competitive WAAC player so a lot of this competitive stuff doesn't affect me.
Yes it is true they are sales related reasons for all of this but that's what companies are supposed to do. Make money and grow. We shouldn't totally demean them for this. If they don't grow they die. That's business 101. Not everyone thinks this is good customer relations but I simply view it differently. They are adding variety and options for the consumer. I personally enjoy that.
In my experience customer service has been exceptional. They have replaced a expensive model for me that I bought at a LGS. If I have had rules questions they have answered them. I have no complaints about actual service.
Sure a couple things are whacky in the game. Look at the size of it however. No other miniature gaming company nearly has the rules scope or fan base they have. I know all of us armchair quarterbacks could do better but honestly could we? I don't know if that's true.
I respect that they weathered a global recession and for a luxury expense like ours that's a big deal.
I know we all would love for GW to put customers first. Sadly in the day and age of shareholders this isn't possible. Being a publicly traded company adds a inhuman nature to business. That allows me to look at it from a different light. I look at it like this. Are you actively investing in and expanding your product. That's a clear yes.

If 40k was any other company (say Hasbro got the rights or something) then I would be gone as a gw hobbyist

I am in two minds about GW.

On one hand, they produce models that are, without a doubt, among the best on the market in terms of actual gaming. Please note I'm not saying that there aren't some far, far better models out there (there are) but they are in general intended for display or painting rather than tabletop use. As far as hard-plastic, gaming-centric models go, GW are the best out there.

Their rules are also solid. Not perfect, but solid enough that anyone who isn't being deliberately pedantic and looking to gain an advantage based purely on 17 different uses for the word 'and' can use them to play a game. Similarly, balance is not an issue unless people are deliberately looking for the most powerful combination. To play the game in the way it seems clear GW intended, playing with two forces chosen because you like the units for whatever rather than because of stats, and interpreting the rules as the framework for a narrative rather than as a be-all-and-end-all of playing the game, then the rules are solid, balanced and function as well as they have to to facilitate a narrative.

On the other hand, there are many, many things I detest about the company. The complete unwillingness to listen to the player-base, the excessive prices and the policy of pretending they are the only gaming company out there are all things I dislike. There is no reason for the prices to be so high when there are companies producing models that are nearly as good for half the price. In an age where there are so many new gaming companies ignoring them rather than working with them (or hell, even acknowledging they exist) for the promotion of the hobby as a whole. The company seems to be as inwardly centred and insular as it gets.

In summary, I'd put it like this: The products they produce are great, the way they go about producing, releasing and selling them is flawed.

I rated them a 7. As far as companies go, GW is pretty good.
They make very good products and they are very good on the support sides of things. Their stores are really cool.

The only thing that prevents me from rating them higher is that they seem to put little effort in balancing their game. If they could turn 40k into a better balanced game, they would get at least a 9.

Also, people who complain about their high prices clearly have not grasped the basics of capitalism.

Store staff customer relations: 9
Store staff game knowledge: 7
Dealing with complaints about models etc: 7
Feedback with erratas rules clarifications: 4
Letting profit predictions affect games rules (eg: trying to sell models by making their rules broken): 3
Price of models: 2
Price of codecies, rulebook, or supplements: 1 (waterstones/wh smiths would laugh them out of the shop with those prices)
Discounts to non gw gaming stores: 5 (this would be 10 if prices were reasonable in the first place)
Rules writting (clarity): 7
Rules writing (balance): 4

Just as a note, I rate them poorly as I have exceptionally high standards for businesses; analyzing businesses and helping them become more successful is my professional vocation, so I have high standards in that area.

I just happen to be a gamer as well.

 Iron_Captain wrote:


Also, people who complain about their high prices clearly have not grasped the basics of capitalism.

Regarding this, I actually agree 100% That does not mean however, that I think their price structure is a good idea.

In my opinion, their marketing and brand strategy is not supporting their full potential for long term establishment and profitability.

They do appear to be doing some internal restructuring however, and this will be a good thing - their business lines are too disconnected from one another (black libray, forgeworld, etc.) and this will be a good thing I think for them and for gamers.

The biggest thing I think they are missing is that they are under estimating the elasticity in their product line (i.e. that they can lose customers if the prices get too high), and not recognizing that as they raise the perceived barrier of entry into the game, customer retention becomes more and more critical.

I gave them a 4, because their longevity speaks for itself, and their physical products are good, but the intellectual end of their company sucks hard.

I voted a 2, because I do not HATE them, but I would never ignore the player-base the way they seem to do. Ignoring the obvious reason this thread exists (the abortion of a codex the new Tyranids appears to be), if you owned/created a successful hobbyist game and people all over the world were constantly asking/begging you to clarify shoddily written rules in an effort to take the game out of the garage and into a competitive tournament setting, wouldn't you embrace that? Wouldn't you want to fix obvious flaws in your rules? Wouldn't you instinctively give examples of obviously tricky rule situations where needed? Wouldn't you be embarrassed to ever print rules saying something to the effect of "just roll off if you and your opponent can't agree on the rules of a situation."?

They need to realize that they're not just a model making company...the rules DO matter. Game balance matters. People are spending thousands of dollars on their product only to have the rug potentially pulled out from under them when a new set of rules arrive. It's a despicable way to guide a business...

I'm gonna give them a 7. I don't play any of their games so the cost of an army, balance issues, "codex creeps" or whatever don't concern me. I love their models and I do not think they're overpriced. Expensive, but not overpriced. And their customer service is absolutely faultless.

What bothers me is their lack of communication and their legal BS, among other little things.

I don't like GW as a company, but I also don't like Sony, Coca-Cola and Chiquita as companies. I like a lot of their products, and I try to stay clear of the ones I find crappy.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Also, people who complain about their high prices clearly have not grasped the basics of capitalism.

Capitalism is not about "the higher the price the better the business".

Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

Demand for Warhammer 40000 products is extreme. Books from the Horus Heresy regularly make it into The New York Times Bestseller List, and everyone who likes science fiction or games has heard of it. The franchise could be as big as Star Wars or Marvel heroes, we could have movies with Hollywood stars on them. But we have not. Because most of the people out there are ex-players, people who got fed up on getting their favorite faction mistreated or retconned out of existence, people who got priced out of the game, people who got so pissed off by GW that abandoned the game they loved, no longer willing to support the company in any sense.

Many, many marketing and business decisions from GW are absolutely nonsensical, hilariously stupid and/or aimed on self-destruction. The only reason the company still exists is because the setting created by the original authors (who are no longer part of the company) is amazingly good, so we have die-hard fans able to pay preposterous amounts of money for low-quality products made in a rush with nearly zero effort by people without talent that care not for the quality of the final product, sometimes for over 20 years, investing countless hours and lots of money and love on the hobby.

Sometimes I feel like a drug addict when I buy their products, I feel shame for buying something that more probably than not will cause me more nerd rage than joy. They are living out of other people´s talent, cannibalizing whatever they can, and I fear every release, because every change they are doing is for the worse, and rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant omg my poor Tyranids what did they do oh the horror the horror.

Im in the #3 group. Only because they got me into the hobby and provided a cool game for me and my friends to enjoy. But prices, constant "what the hell?" decisions they make and the attitude of staff in the 2 local GW stores have pushed that rating right down.

I will only buy the codex and rule book off them as needed. i use 3rd party models for as much as i can (victoria miniatures and so on).

I cant support GW/FW and well, even their models can be kinda stupid (personal opinion), so all i like is the game itself and some models they produce.

The prices are too high for my taste, so i simply do not buy them and spend money elsewhere. I am about to save 600% buying my fantasy army from warlord miniatures for example.

If GW shuts down, i wont miss them. But i do appreciate that because of them i got into wargaming.

I gave them a 7. In general, I'm happy with them.

But. There's always a "but".

They have lost their way and probably won't last long - and it has nothing to do with "fugly models" or "unbalanced rules", it's just that they don't seem able to devise a long term strategy and stick to it. In the last two years GW has become more and more erratic, and that, my friends, is a business-killer.

IMHO they don't seem to be able to get a clear view of the market, their position in it and the demands of their customer base, coupled with an atrocious communications policy.

I went from personal experience and said 10, as there is nothing I can personally criticize.
Perfect customer service, nice local managers (Melbourne CBD's manager was the best, very friendly, welcoming and helpful), great models, frequent new content (I have only been in the hobby for a year).

Their "gets the kids because their parents will pay" is so pre-recession.

I voted 8.

I've been I'm the GW hobby for nearly 12 years now, and have extensive experience with other miniature lines (aviation, historical, etc).
On the back of this, and with the odd exception, GW does exactly what it sets out to do on it's Company statement- producing the highest quality miniatures. (I realise of course, this is entirely subjective).

In addition it has great customer service, strong market presence, enough variety to stay fresh, 2 Tolkein-esque Universes, and can cater to a wide range of fanbase: fluff to competitive, absolute beginner to expert Veteran.

My only gripe is that their prices are on the uncomfortable side, especially when you've watched them climb up through the years.

So, in my book, an 8 is well deserved.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Also, people who complain about their high prices clearly have not grasped the basics of capitalism.

There is capitalism, and then there is what is essentially price gouging. GW's is closer to the latter. It would not be so bad if there were starting armies priced reasonably, and then charge a premium for the bigger things that you don't use as often. Instead, they charge an arm and a leg for things that are needed, with price hikes that don't actually come with a valid reason.

I have recently discovered Mantic Games and KoW. For comparison I looked at their undead mega army, which looks to be about 8-10 units plus a war machine and a general; a fully playable army right out of the box (no idea of how many points or whatnot it is). This runs about $165 USD. I looked at the equivalent pricing of GW's Vampire Counts figures, and hit over $180 USD at just about three units; not even a playable army and even if you swapped out a unit for a general, that's still two units plus a commander, basically the bare minimum required to even attempt to play (and not even something that is expected to be fielded) versus an entire army. The quality looked roughly the same.

The difference in price for roughly the same quality is beyond ridiculous, and that's IMO the biggest problem with GW - they basically are pricing themselves out of their own market because veterans already have a lot of figures, so don't need many new pieces, and new players just can't justify paying $300+ to have the smallest possible force to even begin to play a game. The price isn't justified by anything other than them claiming they are a "luxury" hobby, but in the same breath they claim they are marketing to teenagers. On top of that their prices don't even make sense. One unit will be $30 for 10 models, another unit will be $50 for 10 models. It's like they price arbitrarily.

2/10

They consistently produce bad rules because they don't care enough to do better, and then act like they can just say "beer and pretzels" and ignore the problem. Their models are inconsistent in quality, and incredibly expensive. They act like driving away potential customers by ignoring entire player groups is a good way to run a company. They can't figure out even basic marketing principles. They don't understand that the internet exists and it's not 1980 anymore. And their legal department is a stunning example of incompetence and greed, spending millions of dollars to shut down free advertising and go after random authors for using "IP" that GW doesn't actually own. About the only thing GW does even remotely well as a company is giving decent customer service in replacing defective products, but they don't get very much credit for using replacements as a substitute for basic quality control.

5/10. I like their models and fluff. But! On one occasion I mail ordered some paints and they never arrived. I contacted them weekly for about three months and received no replies. Very disheartening. It's funny because I hear people praising their customer service all the time but my experience is the exact opposite.

Voted a 4...

rules are mostly clear and when they aren't FAQs are released, so thats good.
rules are not very balanced, several armies tend to dominate and worse there are many units in codexs that are just awful and nobody takes. (Helbrutes)
Many of the models look great, and only the older models dont look good, but they will be updated soon enough. I'm very pleased with how detailed they are.
The prices are downright painful.
The staff are very friendly and helpful.
The lawyers are aggressive and stamp out imagination and creativity

Overall a fun game but the company needs to get its stuff together.

I gave it a 7.
I love all of the GW games but I hate how expensive it is to play it.

6.

They're not an even company. Most companies, I'd be able to say that they are consistantly a certain score, but with GW they do really good things (jumped up their rate of new books, make excellent sculpts) and then they turn around and do insulting things (absolutely ridiculous price hikes and destructive rulesets that are made solely for cashflow like the force feeding of allies.)

I'm not gonna scream that "OMG GW ARE ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY!"
I'm a capitalist to a large degree and when I see a company doing things for money I see that as just and right.

But I feel like at some point you have to make something enjoyable too. I feel like a lot of the decisions lately have been very short term and over the long term it's going to destroy a game that used to be fun, and sooner or later we'll leave it.

They're abusing the large investment we've made into the game and are assuming it'll keep us. I don't think it will if the current trend continues. Fantasy hasn't been hit by this sledge. I hope it says that way.