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I think the difference might be the borderline between "cult" and religion, and which side you feel Scientology falls on.

Personally, I object to the name as much as anything - from what I've read on them, there seems to be very little actual "science" involved in their belief.

Can't say I'm a fan of blackmailing and child abuse either, by ANY religion/creed/cult etc.

 Peregrine wrote:
I guess this is yet another example of how it's ok to insult a religion, as long as it isn't a popular one?

When Christians due ridiculous things we do insult them. Like those crazy ones who think American soldiers are dying because of gays. If anything this article shows not everyone in Scientology is crazy. They're just trapped.

 LordofHats wrote:
When Christians due ridiculous things we do insult them.

Not to the degree that people insult Scientology. If anyone here called Christianity a "crapass cult" they'd be taking a vacation from the forum to think about their mistake, but apparently Scientology is an acceptable target. If you want to criticize Christianity you have to be very careful to make it clear that the "crazy" ones are just a minority and you aren't insulting the religion as a whole (or any of its members on this forum), but if you want to criticize Scientology you're allowed to insult the whole religion over the actions of its worst members. It's a blatant double standard, and it needs to end.

If you want to criticize Christianity you have to be very careful to make it clear that the "crazy" ones are just a minority and you aren't insulting the religion as a whole

Oh, like all those times people criticize the Catholic church (and our past Pope Benedict) for covering up child molestation within the church instead of fessing up and dealing with the problem?

Yeah. No one takes any Christians or Christian organizations to point when they do something wrong. Ever. /sacarsm

It's a blatant double standard, and it needs to end.

Only if you're not paying attention.

If a Christians made a habit of blackmail as doctrine, they'd be called out on it.

When a Christian cites religion as the reason they don't take their kids to a doctor we do call them nut jobs.

If a priest locked everyone in a church and didn't let them leave he'd probably be sued.

 Peregrine wrote:
I guess this is yet another example of how it's ok to insult a religion, as long as it isn't a popular one? If people were saying things like "Christianity is so ridiculous. I did a big project on this crapass cult in my first year of college, I can't believe anyone subscribes to this nonsense" they'd be getting banned for it. But somehow it's ok to say it about other religions, despite the fact that those religions are no more or less reasonable than the popular ones?

How about we insult all religions, including Atheism, because it's also a religion?

Better?

Deep down, I think I always knew Nickelback was punishing me

I fill my wife with Demon Spawn every chance I get.

The thing I have about all of this religion nonsense is simply this ... I have a problem with any sect of people that tell me that if I do not do things their way that I get to go to hell. In some religions after I die my family can "BUY" my soul free from hell and then I get to go to heaven. In other religions one is forced to give them money so as to find out more about the religion. In some religions if you do not get any blessing from God if you do not give a set amount of your hard earned money to the church.

This, to me, is fundamentally wrong. The main reoccurring theme here is .... MONEY. Money equals power, and power is often wielded by some of the worst people that should have it. I make fun of all of these whacked out religions because, I think that it is actually funny to ridicule them in person and on the internet.

For example, I had some JW humping my leg to talk to me for like 3 weeks in a row. The final week they came out to talk to me they caught me while I was working on my 82 CJ-5, I was replacing the gas tank and sending unit in one fell swoop. I was having problems as my tool selection at that time was fairly small. I was rather bitter about the amount of rust and dirt that was falling in my eyes while working, and this is when they approach me. Bad mistake.

I tell them to have a seat and offer them some water, being a rather generous host, and ask them to explain to me why I should join. They go through all of their texts and spoken word and try to convert me. After all is said and done I tell them that I have only 2 questions and a statement to make and would they be willing to answer the questions honestly and hear my statement. They agree to the proposal.

Question one: How many chosen 'slots' are available in heaven? Answer: 144,000 souls will get to inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Question two: How many people are currently JW? Answer: There are over 1 million people that are current members of the JW faith.

My statement: If God can not find 144,000 acceptable souls in your million man faith, then your faith has some serious problems and I would be at the bottom of that list anyways.

They packed up and I never saw them again. Scientology has its faults too. I have done some research into it and when I found out about Xenu I actually started laughing and wrote that religion off and never bothered to research anything else about it. LDS has its problems too. If the church does not think that you are paying enough in tithes they will check your tax records. You have the right to say no to that investigation but you will be shunned by the rest of the people that follow that faith. That actually happened to a close friend of mine as his wife grew up in Provo, Utah. She walked away from all of her family because they did not support her in refusing the invasion of her privacy.

All religions have some problems, but some are just a little bit more pushy than others IMO.

Another contribution from Oklahoma:

 Ahtman wrote:
I'm honestly surprised it took this long for someone to make it about all religions essentially being the same, specifically someone comparing Scientology to Christianity.

Frankly the Church of the Great Wienie is nothing like this. I mean they don't have the Sacred Bark, the Seventy one Steps to a Good Steak (cut them some slack they have six inch legs), and of course Beware the Satanic Cat and Her Tree Climbing Minions.

 d-usa wrote:


Better

If the second one was true, then I know a girl responsible for alot of deaths.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

trexmeyer wrote:
You'd think that systematic child abuse would lead to a federal investigation into this cult's activities, but apparently not.

If only they didn't have boat loads of cash

And systematic infiltration of the US government to black mail it into leaving them alone and finding information opponents of the "church".

 KingCracker wrote:
I just want to know how making up all this gak ends up getting so many followers? I mean it's not "I can walk on water" it's fracking bat gak insane stuff. My mind is just......... wow

See, I bet if you read Dianetics you wouldn't think it so flying rodent gak crazy. You don't find out about Xenu at the lower levels. It's not even about Xenu at the lower levels.

Human beings fall for this kind of stuff over and over again because we constantly search for ways of controlling the uncontrollable -- namely our lives. Look at all the self-help stuff out there. People were packing the house to attend EST seminars in the '70s, hoping to "get IT" and maybe have the chance to piss themselves. Google Werner Erhard and EST sometime for some fun reading. I got IT, did you get IT yet?


I'll actually bite on the other point. Mainstream religions don't ask you to pay at the door, and that's the flashing red neon sign with Scientology. People are free to worship at churches, mosques, temples, etc without paying fees. They'll certainly accept your donations, but even tithing 10% of your income doesn't equal what Scientology fees will end up costing you, and again, it's not pay-at-the-door. Also note that most mainstream religions have "charity" as an important concept at some level or another, and aren't interested in driving you to the brink of financial ruin. Because ultimately even with all their warts the mainstream religions are about worship first and not profit margins.

Scientology isn't a religion (and Hubbard never saw it that way early on anyway) and probably isn't even best described as a cult, but as the most out-of-control, oppressive and expensive self-help movement ever.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:


Better

If the second one was true, then I know a girl responsible for alot of deaths.

You think that's bad, cunnilingus causes tsunamis!

Only if you're reeeeally good at it.

 gorgon wrote:

Scientology isn't a religion (and Hubbard never saw it that way early on anyway) and probably isn't even best described as a cult, but as the most out-of-control, oppressive and expensive self-help movement ever.

Hubbard himself most likely saw it as a con job. Hell, when your contemporaries in the sci-fi writing community want nothing to do with you and have nothing good to say about you and you're denounced by Aleister Crowley of all people as a charlatan and a con-man, one has to wonder how anyone bought into his bull at all.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I thing Hubbard firmly believed in Dianetics for what its worth. As an idea, there were a great many like it in the early New Age movement, and Hubbard seemed attracted to the idea long before his famous 'the best way to get rich is to start a religion' quote. The way in which her organized and handled his organization is a little harder to explain (I've heard it proposed he suffered increasingly from dimentia as he grew older which would explain a lot about how Scientology ended up how it is without completely relying on the man being a douche bag).

Of course, I'd have prefed the tread was about what Scientology does to people, rather than debating the validty of various metaphysical models of the universe.

Hubbard seemed to end up believing his own propaganda towards the end of his life, when he went into hiding because of the crimes he had been involved in. The Church had people infiltrate government offices and destroy documents that related to Scientology and it's members in a negative way. Hubbard went into hiding and left a few other high profile members including his wife to go down for it. The 'no medication' thing is bunk as Hubbard was rattling like a chemist when he died. Scientologists tried to block the authorities carrying out a postmortem. The scientologists claim he 'shed his mortal skin' or some such and became completely enlightened.

A good book called 'Bare Faced Messiah' is a biography of Hubbard, out of print but has been reproduced online.
http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/bfm/bfmconte.htm