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To participate in life and be responsible for yourself and possibly others is more than enough justification to have a hobby.
To work on miniatures takes some measure of talent and engages many skills that are easily applied to other things.
It is a more unique hobby, I suppose if you were working on model train sets it would be OK.
Now to turn it around and say your hobby then decided your lifestyle choices... that is a little strange.
I guess to explain why we do tabletop war gaming we could point out a few things:
- The game has many rules of varying complexity, think of it as chess with much more choice and luck involved (challenge: mitigating risk).
- Do you think you could buy "playing pieces" this good? You make them and paint them, some artistic skills involved (gasp!).
- You go out and find people to game against, cannot say it has no social elements.
- Unlike going out and drinking beer at the bar, I do have something to show for my money.
It IS a unique choice as a primary hobby to pursue but has many redeeming features to it. I would say any freaky behavior people can point to may have already existed in that person.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
I found the trick with parents is frame the subject in some manner they can comprehend or find familiar.
Everyone has some hobby or pastime, constructive or otherwise, so in my case, once I drew parallels between the hobby aspect of 40k and my mother's affinity for traditional painting, I never had any conflict, and she actually became a decent sounding board for ideas. My father, being a D&D nerd when it first came out was never an issue, nor my girlfriend who now has an Ork BFG force and wants to get a Space Wolf army once we're done university.
It really isn't that much different than most hobbies, and I found most people understand the painting/moddling aspect of it more readily than the game.
That being said, as many others have said, it's ultimately your life, and so long as it doesn't interfere with your finances or personal life, no one has any right to complain. The same applies to any subject, and the comparison to other "mainstream" hobbies of getting wasted every friday night is doubtlessly a useful way to make your point of more reasonable approaches fail.
Therefore, I conclude, Valve should announce Half Life 2: Episode 3.
One of my favourite sayings is: "time enjoyed wasting is not wasted time" and, to a lesser extent, I think the same can apply to money. As long as you can still afford to live well (and your living conditions aren't worsened by the hobby) then if you enjoy everything the hobby brings you, your money isn't wasted.
I find that drugs* and ambiguously nontraditional sexual encounters are very grown up. Perhaps you should ask your parents if those are viable alternatives.
* This post is not necessarily intended to advocate the use of drugs. Stay clean, everybody!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/26 17:54:40
While i don't want to steal from the OP's issues, i can safely say that i have been suffering the same thing with my family.
Having gone to a major university and earned my degree (and working on at a masters now while staying with my parents) they have started dictating how i'll spend my time and efforts claiming 40k is a waste of time and effort.
OP all i can say is that all the advice here is solid and golden. Keep up the positive attitude dakka.
To the OP: first off, my heart goes out to you. I've got very good parents that don't have a problem with my hobby. Heck, they even like it for the art aspect of painting the models. Having parents that constantly nag you and shoot your hobby down sounds like pure hell.
Second, here's a question: are you living on your own, independent of your parents' finances and help? If so, it's entirely within your rights to tell them off, because their behavior is completely out of order and just plain rude and possessive. You're independent, you're your own person, and frankly you don't owe them gak.
~Tim?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/26 18:51:02
insaniak wrote: Hobbies aren't intended to 'get you anywhere'. They're a way to spend your free time.
This is true, people often place a great deal of importance on things like money, work, and education. But these things are really just a means to an end. Things like hobbies and art are an end in themselves.
Lockark wrote: I recently came out of the closest, and my Father blames it on my Wargameing because I was spending to much time around men.
People get weird ideas. In the end just do what's best for you. As long as you aren't putting yourself in finically trouble with your wargameing or the such, then you are alright.
Your dad sounds bonkers.
Does he think footballers, rugby players, cricket players, soldiers, firemen are all gay too? They're all male dominated professions that involve spending a lot of time with other men. And Wargamers don't see each other naked...
Oh the man is a massive prick. He also blames Video Games, Comic Books, TV, the internet, japaness cartoons and anything eals "geeky" for makeing me come out as a Transgendered person.
But I didn't mean to detract from Dylanj94's issue. I was just shareing my life experiences. His family may just be worried about your finical well being, and their is nothing wrong with that. But you also can't live your life worrying about what other people think.
The next time he mentions geeky things as being a problem, remind him of all of the technical comforts he enjoys in modern society all came from geeks figuring out how stuff works and making it possible for him to have all of his comforts.
Tell your mom and dad that they have talked you into giving up wargaming, and have decided to take up bungee, B.A.S.E jumping and boxing. But they don't really give you enough of a kick, so you like to shoot smack before a jump/fight.
Ordinary hobbies are all terrible for you. I drink far too much, I would be overjoyed if my son preferred gaming to all of the gak young people get up to nowadays, you know.. drinking, smoking, partying, buying expensive clothes and fast cars, it beggars belief that any parent could be so fething ignorant.
Its the same when you grow up, you will meet plenty of women that think its dumb, I dated plenty who took the piss a little.. and then you meet a smart woman who realized that its a great hobby because you aren't out drinking and womanizing and think "Yeah maybe I shouldn't worry about all those dumb bastards I met in the past"
Sadly though you are stuck with your parents, you cant trade them in for smarter ones.
Just ignore them. I cant put it any more gently, but your parents are just really short sighted and ignorant. My old man would have loved me spending all day reading and playing board-games instead of drinking, shagging and fighting when I was a young pup!
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
I would tell your family that having diversified hobbies (painting, modeling, collecting, gaming friends/community) is very healthy. If one only has one hobby (or no hobbies), they can get bored quite easily and usually end up getting into trouble. Some people live for their car (very $), or sports (playing or sitting around the boob tube - also can be very $), drinking or going out, etc. Wargaming can be pricey or easily affordable depending on how you budget/spend, but it will not get you into trouble like many other things and actually keeps one out of the world's troubles. The gaming community is also great as you have person to person contact unlike video games, watching movies, watching sports, etc. Remember that those who go out for drinks probably spend $20-50 a night that is gone after they spent it, or those going to sporting events spend $ for a show they will see once and then will be done (except for the memories)... gamers have minis that they can game with repeatedly, can always re-sell, and sometimes may increase in value.
My parents bought me a 40k set to paint as they liked the creativity aspect when I was 15 years old. I am now older, have a job, an education, a home, responsibilities, and probably $22k total invested in 40k -as well as more in many other games (easy to accomplish over 15-20 years if one budgets accordingly). My spending has gone down considerably as we recently had our first child and have other responsibilities, but he will grow up around war gaming.
I personally think that simple board games like monopoly are kinda nerdy and have no personal appeal (I know that many people who play these types of games that make fun of mini gamers, calling it nerdy -to each their own)... I love mini wargames as they are far more complex as they involve the player more, make one think more, make one read, have lots of fluff, the communities and friends made from gaming are great, and I especially love the collecting aspect.
So yea, some like your family may not get wargames/wargamers, but they probably have "weird" hobbies too or spend their money in other fashions that we would not.
keep gaming
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/26 20:52:32
Dylanj94 wrote: So I have been playing Warhammer 40k for a while, playing games, painting or just enjoying collecting them. Recently I sold of some models and used the money to buy more models. I recently expanded into WHFB and have enjoyed this hobby. My family, namely my mom and dad constantly make comments when they visit about how I need to grow up and stop spending money on stupid gak etc. Each time they do this I always overthink things and ask myself if I even want to play the game anymore. I just don't know what to do anymore and its just giving me a headache trying to figure out how to deal with it...
Anyone have any ideas how to deal with this or have dealt with this before?
Your life, your hobby. It's not about Warhammer, it's about whether or not your parents tell you what to do with your life, and how you react to that advice.
....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
Lockark wrote: I recently came out of the closest, and my Father blames it on my Wargameing because I was spending to much time around men.
People get weird ideas. In the end just do what's best for you. As long as you aren't putting yourself in finically trouble with your wargameing or the such, then you are alright.
Your dad sounds bonkers.
Does he think footballers, rugby players, cricket players, soldiers, firemen are all gay too? They're all male dominated professions that involve spending a lot of time with other men. And Wargamers don't see each other naked...
Oh the man is a massive prick. He also blames Video Games, Comic Books, TV, the internet, japaness cartoons and anything eals "geeky" for makeing me come out as a Transgendered person.
But I didn't mean to detract from Dylanj94's issue. I was just shareing my life experiences. His family may just be worried about your finical well being, and their is nothing wrong with that. But you also can't live your life worrying about what other people think.
The next time he mentions geeky things as being a problem, remind him of all of the technical comforts he enjoys in modern society all came from geeks figuring out how stuff works and making it possible for him to have all of his comforts.
Actully his day job is working at NASA of all thing is the biggest irony. One lol
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/26 21:12:18
my family love that i spend so much time and money on warhammer. this is because i used to be a drug addict and spent all my time and money on drugs. this is a hobby that hasn't put in hospital and they are well chuffed about that! perhaps your family should feel happy that you've chosen a healthy and constructive hobby rather than one of the damaging, life-ruining stupid hobbies that you could have chosen.
daddyorchips wrote: my family love that i spend so much time and money on warhammer. this is because i used to be a drug addict and spent all my time and money on drugs. this is a hobby that hasn't put in hospital and they are well chuffed about that! perhaps your family should feel happy that you've chosen a healthy and constructive hobby rather than one of the damaging, life-ruining stupid hobbies that you could have chosen.
feeder wrote: Does your hobby interfere with your "real" life? Are you not going to school/work because there is a good game of 40K going on? Are you short on rent or groceries because you bought a Landraider instead? Are you giving hand jibbers for money so you can afford the latest issue of WD?
You know what's sad? My answer to these questions is yes.
Ooh, and I have the latest issue of WD right here! Shall we, ahem, make a deal?
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Lockark wrote: I recently came out of the closest, and my Father blames it on my Wargameing because I was spending to much time around men.
People get weird ideas. In the end just do what's best for you. As long as you aren't putting yourself in finically trouble with your wargameing or the such, then you are alright.
Your dad sounds bonkers.
Does he think footballers, rugby players, cricket players, soldiers, firemen are all gay too? They're all male dominated professions that involve spending a lot of time with other men. And Wargamers don't see each other naked...
Oh the man is a massive prick. He also blames Video Games, Comic Books, TV, the internet, japaness cartoons and anything eals "geeky" for makeing me come out as a Transgendered person.
But I didn't mean to detract from Dylanj94's issue. I was just shareing my life experiences. His family may just be worried about your finical well being, and their is nothing wrong with that. But you also can't live your life worrying about what other people think.
The next time he mentions geeky things as being a problem, remind him of all of the technical comforts he enjoys in modern society all came from geeks figuring out how stuff works and making it possible for him to have all of his comforts.
Actully his day job is working at NASA of all thing is the biggest irony. One lol
Working with a lot of men i guess
Anyway OP you should take up what your parents said, start a job at the postal office, coming home everyday stressed, start a gun collection, write threatening letters, and one day take lots of guns to work, and then they will say on the news, he used to play a lot of violent war-games that probably caused it
Yeah ... I went through something like that as well ... as a Union Ironworker I guess I should be a 'MANLY' man and not play with little army men, or so my grandfather told me. After about 6 times of just brushing it off I suggested that I might take up another, different hobby. He asked what I was thinking about, already knowing of my Jeep hobbies as well as my Harley Davidson hobbies. I informed him that I was thinking of taking up drinking ... so I could get into getting DUI's, arrested for assault, public intox as well as a little bit of defacing government property by spreading feces on the county courthouse .... oh and throw in a couple of domestic violence charges too.
He actually asked me "Why would you do that?" I told him that according to him that is what grown ass men do, and I just want to be like everyone else that is an Ironworker .... on second thought ... I will just go ahead and keep playing with my little army men because it allows the wife and I to have the toys that we want. 2010 Wrangler, 2004 Wrangler, 2014 Ultra Classic Limited, 2012 1200 Sportster, and her 370Z .... I think we are doing alright.
I have never heard another word about it.
Now, we like big books. (And we cannot lie. You other readers can’t deny, a book flops open with an itty-bitty font, and a map that’s in your face, you get—sorry! Sorry!)
Dylanj94 wrote: So I have been playing Warhammer 40k for a while, playing games, painting or just enjoying collecting them. Recently I sold of some models and used the money to buy more models. I recently expanded into WHFB and have enjoyed this hobby. My family, namely my mom and dad constantly make comments when they visit about how I need to grow up and stop spending money on stupid gak etc. Each time they do this I always overthink things and ask myself if I even want to play the game anymore. I just don't know what to do anymore and its just giving me a headache trying to figure out how to deal with it...
Anyone have any ideas how to deal with this or have dealt with this before?
"Grow up and do exactly what Mommy and Daddy tell you!"
Not listening to your parents is a sure sign that you will never be a world-famous doctor who dotes on his parents in their old age. How can you live with yourself?
Sounds to me like you are an adult and your parents can't understand how you are not a clone of them at your age. The problem isn't with you or your toys.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lockark wrote: I recently came out of the closest, and my Father blames it on my Wargameing because I was spending to much time around men.
I don't see the logic here. If this reasoning held, can you imagine what football would be like?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/27 07:27:37
feeder wrote: Does your hobby interfere with your "real" life? Are you not going to school/work because there is a good game of 40K going on? Are you short on rent or groceries because you bought a Landraider instead? Are you giving hand jibbers for money so you can afford the latest issue of WD?
You know what's sad? My answer to these questions is yes.
If you are answering Yes to these questions, you need to start backing away from the gaming table and get your life in order.
Job first, gaming second.
But I'm assuming you're joking, diphranq.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/27 13:06:54
My dad never came and flat out said anything to me, but I always got the impression there was an implied disapproval from him, not anything significant, just that it wasn't a 'manly' hobby sort of thing. (He shoots, hunts and does carpentry)
I returned to the hobby as a 'proper' adult a couple of years ago, having more or less quit in my early twenties, as a distraction from not being able to work for health reasons, and he has been more tolerant since then.
Even more recently, however, I've moved so my folks are effectively my neighbours, and for a while had to use their address for postal deliveries. In that time I took delivery of my (first!) Imperial Knight, and actually showed my folks how it looked on sprue when I collected it, then once more when built and then finally once I had it painted and based. This seems to have opened my dad's eyes somewhat, to the point where HE was showing it off to HIS friends when they came to see my parents! I think, all this time, he had simply not comprehended the amount of time, effort and skill in all sorts of areas that wargaming takes, and seeing the process gave him a new appreciation of what I do.
This long, rambling anecdote essentially boils down to one thing, prejudice is often borne out of ignorance, and actually educating your folks (without forcing it down their throat) on what you do may help them become more understanding and supportive.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I don't know how constructive it is to to compare the modelling/painting miniature hobby to drinking and drugs. It just seems like a ridiculously bad argument, so I'm unsure why it has come up again and again in this thread. Obviously his parents would be thinking more along the lines of an instrument, a foreign language, exercise/ a sport, traditional art, etc.
"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams
daddyorchips wrote: my family love that i spend so much time and money on warhammer. this is because i used to be a drug addict and spent all my time and money on drugs. this is a hobby that hasn't put in hospital and they are well chuffed about that! perhaps your family should feel happy that you've chosen a healthy and constructive hobby rather than one of the damaging, life-ruining stupid hobbies that you could have chosen.
My only concern now is that if you kicked the habit so effectively I am concerned of the addictiveness of GW product... glad/good for you however!
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AesSedai wrote: I don't know how constructive it is to to compare the modelling/painting miniature hobby to drinking and drugs. It just seems like a ridiculously bad argument, so I'm unsure why it has come up again and again in this thread. Obviously his parents would be thinking more along the lines of an instrument, a foreign language, exercise/ a sport, traditional art, etc.
The drinking in particular is mentioned most often because this is a "typical" leisure activity that appears to get little disapproval for something if taken too far can be self-destructive.
I have done Judo, Kendo, paintball and blacksmithing for fun so anything that is of a form of martial skill like strategy games is no shock to those who know me.
I guess it is less accepted for those who collect the bigger boy toys like off-road vehicles and then make something delicate like miniature figures: it confuses people.
What would be considered "normal" leisure activities in Japan? (Is Pachinko still done?)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/27 14:27:10
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
daddyorchips wrote: my family love that i spend so much time and money on warhammer. this is because i used to be a drug addict and spent all my time and money on drugs. this is a hobby that hasn't put in hospital and they are well chuffed about that! perhaps your family should feel happy that you've chosen a healthy and constructive hobby rather than one of the damaging, life-ruining stupid hobbies that you could have chosen.
My only concern now is that if you kicked the habit so effectively I am concerned of the addictiveness of GW product... glad/good for you however!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AesSedai wrote: I don't know how constructive it is to to compare the modelling/painting miniature hobby to drinking and drugs. It just seems like a ridiculously bad argument, so I'm unsure why it has come up again and again in this thread. Obviously his parents would be thinking more along the lines of an instrument, a foreign language, exercise/ a sport, traditional art, etc.
The drinking in particular is mentioned most often because this is a "typical" leisure activity that appears to get little disapproval for something if taken too far can be self-destructive.
I have done Judo, Kendo, paintball and blacksmithing for fun so anything that is of a form of martial skill like strategy games is no shock to those who know me.
I guess it is less accepted for those who collect the bigger boy toys like off-road vehicles and then make something delicate like miniature figures: it confuses people.
What would be considered "normal" leisure activities in Japan? (Is Pachinko still done?)
Sure, pachinko is still popular here...unfortunately. Japanese society has an incredible need to put things (and people) into neat, little boxes. Drinking here is considered completely normal in a way far beyond anything I experienced in North America. Canadian and American parents don't seem to have any issue pointing out if their grown children are drinking to much. My own parents both asked me to cut back a couple years ago (I have). In Japan, the stigma of bring an otaku is not going to be a pleasant thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/27 17:01:36
"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams
Lockark wrote: I recently came out of the closest, and my Father blames it on my Wargameing because I was spending to much time around men.
I don't see the logic here. If this reasoning held, can you imagine what football would be like?
It's a doublestandard. You can't be gay if your doing MANLY THANGZ when with other men.
Bassicly he thinks it's not gay untill you touch dice. He's also a computer systems engineer, and wastes his money on stuff to over compensate for the fact he himself is a computer geek. He buys big trucks and big boats to make himself look as manly as possibler. It's bassicly a ton of self loathing that he externalizes onto me. Their is a reason I haven't talked to him in almost 4 years at this point....
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/05/27 17:14:07
AesSedai wrote: I don't know how constructive it is to to compare the modelling/painting miniature hobby to drinking and drugs. It just seems like a ridiculously bad argument, so I'm unsure why it has come up again and again in this thread. Obviously his parents would be thinking more along the lines of an instrument, a foreign language, exercise/ a sport, traditional art, etc.
Well, however "ridiculously bad" the analogy is, it has applied literally to at least one person in this thread.
AesSedai wrote: I don't know how constructive it is to to compare the modelling/painting miniature hobby to drinking and drugs. It just seems like a ridiculously bad argument, so I'm unsure why it has come up again and again in this thread. Obviously his parents would be thinking more along the lines of an instrument, a foreign language, exercise/ a sport, traditional art, etc.
Right, they probably don't see the social aspect of wargaming and think it's all about sitting at home on your own making little toy men.
Anyway, I've never received any negativity for my interest in wargaming, even from people who wouldn't traditionally be interested in that sort of thing. An old friend, or someone I just met in a bar, might ask me about my recent hobbies, and I might say "I've been making some toy soldiers lately," trying to put an amusing spin on it, and then I just elaborate from there, gauging how interested they are. Most people in the hobby are normal people, and the more "normal" people talk about the hobby in a normal way, the more normalised it becomes. I'm very open about all my hobbies and activities though. Very little of what I do surprises anyone anymore, I can just talk about my experiences or ideas or interests freely to anyone.
When my mother does see them on visits, she says they look gruesome, but I did catch her looking through Codexes without being prompted, and being very impressed by the artwork.
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
