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Dark Eldar Transports can deep strike now, plus 3+ Jink, in addition they have their armament.

Like why wouldn't you purchase that.

At least Wraithguard coming through a WWP is fluffy, Eldar do use the Webway as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Wait can you deep strike and fire a Flamer? I didn't think you could. Or maybe I'm confused.


Also, why not just fly around in Venoms or Raiders loaded up with D-Cannons or Vibro Cannons.

I think its a passover from 6th to 7th.. where Deepstriking vehicles moved at cruising speed and now is combat speed allowing passenger to fire without snaps.

Its why the missile blast upgrade on the drop pods where slightly useless.

D-cannons and vibro cannons are heavy no?

Moving passed 6" in a venom would make em snap which is a slight bit usless.

Dont forget you can also get out eh vehicle now for another 6" and with Battle Focus another D6 meaning even if you scatter way off the D-Scythes are still going to do their damage...

Yeah I have no desire to face

Archon Webway Portal
5 Wraithguard w/ D-Scythes

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah I have no desire to face

Archon Webway Portal
5 Wraithguard w/ D-Scythes

I was starting to think it was kind of like a heldrake, just point and click but it is a bit different. There is virtually nothing it cant kill or at least scare. On the other hand it is a bit random. Even if you get 20 hits, the might wound on 4+ or 5+ which could randomly end up only doing 2-3 wounds.

Whiners.

Not only is that combo no more crazy than T1 drop pod madness, wtf is it that you think any combo is going to be worth it ?

Wraithguard don't have battle focus unless you cast a WC2 spell with a spiritseer.

So... how about we talk about your combo hey ?

1 Archon ? 60 points
5 Wraithguard w/ D-Scythes ? 210 points

So for 270 points you get 5 templates S4AP2 distort and next turn you lose everything because it's only 3+ save, 5WT6 and 3WT3 .

woooo game is brokennnn noway you play eldar now moar excuz refuz game.

Sure, whatever.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:


If someone brings this kind of stuff to the table, I'll just shrug and say that he autowins with that list, and I just hope the people at my local GW that play dark eldar don't bring this kind of stuff.

Or you could just bring 70 pt of grots and completely negate their deepstriking advantage, nope? Even boyz are cheap enough to counter their tactix. Orkses are not the ones who's afraid of this type of things too much. You want to get involved asap and when they're coming for you themselves with their expensive soldiers in av10 2 hp opentopped vehicles with 3+ at best ...I don't see any bad in it, really. Surround the damn tank and wreck it in mellee - now the guyz can't disembark and auto-die. Afraid of overwatch with flamers? They can overwatch only once. Use an expendable unit to eat fire and do the same trick once again. Or you could wreck a vehicle with shooting and put an end to the bunched up guyz with kmk/rokkits/lobbas/whatever.

morgoth wrote:

Not only is that combo no more crazy than T1 drop pod madness, wtf is it that you think any combo is going to be worth it ?

So for 270 points you get 5 templates S4AP2 distort and next turn you lose everything because it's only 3+ save, 5WT6 and 3WT3 .

Well the power of drop pod or this really depends on the opponents army composistion, if there are not targets worth over 200 points then its power is obviously less.

But consider that 10 sternguard with a bunch of combis in a pod coming down.
It can fire on 2 targets, if they combat squad in half on landing.
It requires a lot of room, drop pods are big
It puts out a fair amount of damage. Say 10 melta, looking at 6 pens if you get close enough, probably enough to kill any tank. Say 10 plasma, 13.33 hit, 11 wounds before invulns or cover against T5 or less. Half those(as you are getting 2 targets) you are looking at 5.5 wounds before cover or 3 pens for each half.
It costs a lot to have a full pod full of combis

Now 5 scythes pinpoint dropped.
Smaller footprint
No scatter, will always be in perfect flame range
each flamer is going to get 3+ hits, probably 4-5 and certainly more is possible. It is also possible to get flame hits on a primary squad and get a little bit of another squad or vehicle.(that's where the power is)
Against T4 that is 12 wounds, 4 of them ID that ignore cover. Against T7 it is still 4 ID wounds that ignore cover.
Against a single target you are looking at 1pen or ID wound roughly

Because of the smaller footprint needed, bubble wrap is less effective

Because you can get 2 targets, until they come down you have to keep you squads and MCs apart, lest they both get taken out. With pinpoint DS, you come down, flame a squad and also happen to clip an MC or another squad, doing more damage than sternguard can.


10 T4 3+ wounds is less durable than 5T6 3+ woudns with an archon tanking a bit. Particularly when you consider how tough the wraithguard are to assault unless you happen to have enough cheap troops in range to eat the overwatch. Bolters will still need 6s to wound the archon until the last wraithguard dies.

 Exergy wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Not only is that combo no more crazy than T1 drop pod madness, wtf is it that you think any combo is going to be worth it ?

So for 270 points you get 5 templates S4AP2 distort and next turn you lose everything because it's only 3+ save, 5WT6 and 3WT3 .

Well the power of drop pod or this really depends on the opponents army composistion, if there are not targets worth over 200 points then its power is obviously less.

But consider that 10 sternguard with a bunch of combis in a pod coming down.
It can fire on 2 targets, if they combat squad in half on landing.
It requires a lot of room, drop pods are big
It puts out a fair amount of damage. Say 10 melta, looking at 6 pens if you get close enough, probably enough to kill any tank. Say 10 plasma, 13.33 hit, 11 wounds before invulns or cover against T5 or less. Half those(as you are getting 2 targets) you are looking at 5.5 wounds before cover or 3 pens for each half.
It costs a lot to have a full pod full of combis

Now 5 scythes pinpoint dropped.
Smaller footprint
No scatter, will always be in perfect flame range
each flamer is going to get 3+ hits, probably 4-5 and certainly more is possible. It is also possible to get flame hits on a primary squad and get a little bit of another squad or vehicle.(that's where the power is)
Against T4 that is 12 wounds, 4 of them ID that ignore cover. Against T7 it is still 4 ID wounds that ignore cover.
Against a single target you are looking at 1pen or ID wound roughly

Because of the smaller footprint needed, bubble wrap is less effective

Because you can get 2 targets, until they come down you have to keep you squads and MCs apart, lest they both get taken out. With pinpoint DS, you come down, flame a squad and also happen to clip an MC or another squad, doing more damage than sternguard can.


10 T4 3+ wounds is less durable than 5T6 3+ woudns with an archon tanking a bit. Particularly when you consider how tough the wraithguard are to assault unless you happen to have enough cheap troops in range to eat the overwatch. Bolters will still need 6s to wound the archon until the last wraithguard dies.

Last time I looked 5 wraith guard take 10 transport slots and a raider has 10 slots so no archon tanking wounds. If someone bubble wraps there important stuff then you are killing nothing of importance.

You have no turn 1 alpha strike unless dark eldar get something like drop pod assault. D scythes do nothing to flyers since they are a template.

Question:
Baharoth never scatters when he deep strikes because he is a swooping hawks or whatever. If he is riding in a deep striking raider will the raider scatter?

My poor tyranids....not getting love for 2 editions now. Le sigh....

Rx8Speed wrote:
Question:
Baharoth never scatters when he deep strikes because he is a swooping hawks or whatever. If he is riding in a deep striking raider will the raider scatter?

Yes, it will. Baharroth has the special rule, not the transport, but it is the transport that is deepstriking, not Baharroth.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Which is why....Gogo Fantasy! No Ally rules!........yet, that is. >.<

Who needs Allies when every wizard in the game can summon Undead units?

Baharroth also has a jump pack, so he's not allowed in the transport in the first place.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Baharroth also has a jump pack, so he's not allowed in the transport in the first place.

Last I checked, jump packs make you bulky. They don't disallow you from getting in a transport. Could be wrong, never had any reason to put jump packs in a transport.

its under transports pg80, says only infantry may embark on a transport unless specified otherwise and it notes that this excludes jump/jet infantry.
Though to my knowledge the only exception is Devilfish specifically allowed to transport Drones even though theyre a jetpack unit (and also dont count as bulky)

How many WWPs can an army have?
Is it an artifact?

I'd like to point out that raiders can be killed by concentrated bolter fire, so even a tac squad can lay waste to the omg amazing deepstriking raiders you guys are worried about. now if you could assault the turn you land, i would be concerned. So far im thinking it will be fun but it wont be the end of the world. On an aside now i do think that it would be fun to drop of some grotesques or incubi to play using this tactic, esp if you deep strike a lot of your drive by kabalites as distraction

NightWrench wrote:


Last time I looked 5 wraith guard take 10 transport slots and a raider has 10 slots so no archon tanking wounds. If someone bubble wraps there important stuff then you are killing nothing of importance.

You have no turn 1 alpha strike unless dark eldar get something like drop pod assault. D scythes do nothing to flyers since they are a template.

And you know we have been talking about the WWP item, rumored to be pinpoint DS WITHOUT a transport.

 wuestenfux wrote:
How many WWPs can an army have?
Is it an artifact?

No clue. We don't know how many you can take, who can take it, how much it cost or if it even allows deepstriking without scatter. All of this is speculation based on rumors.

That said, rumors are that medusa's eye shot are s4 ap3 template. New archon court rules allow you to take 12 members in any combination and medusa are 15pts in the current dex. You can do the same wraithguard trick with the medusa for cheaper, only you can't harm sv2+. Assuming prices for everything are about equal to the current codex you can get an archon and 6 medusa for 200 points. Really, the issue is no scatter deep striking. It is just too good.

 lambsandlions wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How many WWPs can an army have?
Is it an artifact?

No clue. We don't know how many you can take, who can take it, how much it cost or if it even allows deepstriking without scatter. All of this is speculation based on rumors.

That said, rumors are that medusa's eye shot are s4 ap3 template. New archon court rules allow you to take 12 members in any combination and medusa are 15pts in the current dex. You can do the same wraithguard trick with the medusa for cheaper, only you can't harm sv2+. Assuming prices for everything are about equal to the current codex you can get an archon and 6 medusa for 200 points. Really, the issue is no scatter deep striking. It is just too good.

Yeah, no scatter DS on a character and his unit seems just too good. It does sound like the kind of mistake GW would make though. The rumor is that it is not an artefact, which sounds wrong and right at the same time(there was once a restriction on WWP in 3rd edition to one per army, but if it was an artifact, suppliments wouldnt be able to use it. )

 Exergy wrote:


Yeah, no scatter DS on a character and his unit seems just too good. It does sound like the kind of mistake GW would make though. The rumor is that it is not an artefact, which sounds wrong and right at the same time(there was once a restriction on WWP in 3rd edition to one per army, but if it was an artifact, suppliments wouldnt be able to use it. )

No scatter ds is just all kinds of ridiculous. Need a tank killed? drop melta in range. Bonus points for dropping them in close enough that the unit inside can't get out. Want infantry to vanish? Flamers always at the right spot will do that. With no scatter hitting 5-6 models with a single flamer doesn't seem far fetched.

 Exergy wrote:

Yeah, no scatter DS on a character and his unit seems just too good.

And yet somehow Dante hasn't been in a winning army since...well, ever.

As for D-scythes, is anyone all that worried about 3 D-scythes that you know are coming 1-4 turns ahead of time?

+1. Lot of sky is falling in the thread.

It's also worth mentioning that Venoms can be purchased as Fast Attack and have the deep strike ability. So you can purchase venom upgrade it to two Splinter Cannons, and have 12 4+ poison shots and it can carry 5 Firedragons w/ a Exarch w/ Fast shot.

All of that comes in at 200 points.

Fire Dragons have Battle Focus.

So you don't even really need to be super near the target with the venom as they could possibly disembark, run then shoot at the target.

Just a random thought, would it not be worth deep striking in a plain old guardian or kabby squad with 20 members. That many shots at rapid fire range is nothing to scoff at. Lob a few Spiritseers in the squad and shriek anything you are worried about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:
It's also worth mentioning that Venoms can be purchased as Fast Attack and have the deep strike ability. So you can purchase venom upgrade it to two Splinter Cannons, and have 12 4+ poison shots and it can carry 5 Firedragons w/ a Exarch w/ Fast shot.

All of that comes in at 200 points.

Fire Dragons have Battle Focus.

So you don't even really need to be super near the target with the venom as they could possibly disembark, run then shoot at the target.

Seems amusing. I wonder, can you summon from within a transport? Toss a load of Spiritseers and warlocks in some venoms.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Yeah, no scatter DS on a character and his unit seems just too good.

And yet somehow Dante hasn't been in a winning army since...well, ever.

Dante doesnt give DS to things, and doesnt his only work with other blood angels with jump packs? Can they take mass flamers that are AP2 and inflict ID on a 6? Can they do it all for around the price of Dante Alone?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

As for D-scythes, is anyone all that worried about 3 D-scythes that you know are coming 1-4 turns ahead of time?

3? Isnt the minimum wraithguard size 5?



At this point it is just a rumor, but it's a powerful one

Yes 5.

Shingen wrote:
Yes 5.

So it would appear that you can DS them in a raider, but you wont be DSing them in a raider with an attached archon for that non scatter

Lucky me our resident DE player don't see Eldar with bright eyes... But I'm gonna test it! Just once, I promise

In fact... can we imagine that all DTs will become fast attack options (Land Raiders notwithstanding)?

 generalchaos34 wrote:

Shingen wrote:
Yes 5.

So it would appear that you can DS them in a raider, but you wont be DSing them in a raider with an attached archon for that non scatter

yes, so you DS them on foot with the WWP

 Exergy wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

Shingen wrote:
Yes 5.

So it would appear that you can DS them in a raider, but you wont be DSing them in a raider with an attached archon for that non scatter

yes, so you DS them on foot with the WWP

Well yes, but without the raider as cheap armor and mobility