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Then there's the theory that the 'brain boyz' were actually an early manifestation of the Emperor, and the Orks are the results of his experimentation to create super-soldiers. Kind of like proto-Thunderwarriors almost.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Then there's the theory that the 'brain boyz' were actually an early manifestation of the Emperor, and the Orks are the results of his experimentation to create super-soldiers. Kind of like proto-Thunderwarriors almost.

Ah, that one doesn't hold water. We have a rough date for the Emperor's birth if the Starchild Prophecy is still in. Without the prophecy, the alternative is that he's been on Earth. When humans take to space, the orks are already everywhere.

Brainboyz were initially a snotling like super smart ork deviation. But the fluff has morphed to instead imply it is the Old Ones. References to the previous incarnation aren't well supported given the fluff from other codex.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Then there's the theory that the 'brain boyz' were actually an early manifestation of the Emperor, and the Orks are the results of his experimentation to create super-soldiers. Kind of like proto-Thunderwarriors almost.

Is this something from the source material? Never heard that idea before, where is it from?

 PhillyT wrote:
Brainboyz were initially a snotling like super smart ork deviation. But the fluff has morphed to instead imply it is the Old Ones. References to the previous incarnation aren't well supported given the fluff from other codex.

The Codex: Orks passage on Da Lost Race works much better in accordance with the original background. The guff about the Krork is only found in the first Codex: Necrons and the current Codex makes no mention of it at all, with the War in Heaven heavily retconned so going by the source material about and for Orks specifically there is no real reason to bring the Old Ones into the equation at all.

The original fluff isn't necessarily worth keeping in many regards though. The notion that Orks are connected to some ancient space faring race appear multiple times over multiple editions. The brainboy or old ones are both equally valid, whether you use the idea of the brain boyz as a separate orkoid or you think they are representative of the old ones.

DarkHound wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Then there's the theory that the 'brain boyz' were actually an early manifestation of the Emperor, and the Orks are the results of his experimentation to create super-soldiers. Kind of like proto-Thunderwarriors almost.

Ah, that one doesn't hold water. We have a rough date for the Emperor's birth if the Starchild Prophecy is still in. Without the prophecy, the alternative is that he's been on Earth. When humans take to space, the orks are already everywhere.

Gogsnik wrote:Is this something from the source material? Never heard that idea before, where is it from?

Oh, no, it doesn't hold water at all without warp dickery - its based on an old piece of fluff (one of those little boxes in white dwarf) about a Martian explorator team finding an abandoned laboratory that looked like it had been being used to create Orks. The whole thing was about two hundred words.

I see, I don't recall it but it still sounds interesting even if completely implausible! When you say an old White Dwarf how old are we talking as I have quite a few pre-2008 so even a general pointer would be great

Would have been around '99, associated with the 3e ork codex.

Yeah, it would be implausible considering how old the Ork race is compared to the evolution of life on Terra let alone when humans finally rose on their feet.

No-linear time.

Its established that an orkoid was used or existed in the War of Heaven. The 5th edition Necron book spoke of it and its equally "canon" to the Rogue Trader era Ork fluff about the Brainboyz.

Personally, I disregard the Brainboy fluff because I find it silly. Thats the beauty of GW fluff (and also the ugly part). You can embrace whatever parts you want.

I support the idea of some of the warlike Old Ones did go away and took the most stompy Krork with them. And 'nids now are running from them

I figured Nids were running away from themselves like a locust swarm.

Nah, the implication is that as terrible and powerful as the Tyranids are, they are themselves fleeing something greater. I believe it's mentioned in each Tyranid codex.

I thought it was stated that they had exhausted the resources of their previous galaxy and have moved on to new hunting grounds. I like both fluff stories.

I've read that idea as well. No one in 40k can know for sure, so I'm certain they put out competing ideas flagged as speculation. The idea that they ran out of resources is pretty self explanatory. The greater evil theory, if I remember correctly, cites the Tyranid's rapid expansion rather than systematic consumption of worlds. If the goal is just to eat all the biomass, why bother pushing headlong into the Tau or the Ultramarines?

 DarkHound wrote:
Nah, the implication is that as terrible and powerful as the Tyranids are, they are themselves fleeing something greater. I believe it's mentioned in each Tyranid codex.

It's not mentioned in the 6e codex, which mentions that the Tyranids have consumed a thousand galaxies before this one and tries to convey a sense that we will all surely die just like the other one thousand galaxies and there's no hope for anyone. Of course it's a cruddex so you're probably asleep long before then. Warzone Valedor's novel also has the Eldar predict that the Tyranids will devour everything and leave nothing behind save for the Necrons who have nothing but barren dust to rule until the stars die; chugging away to the next meal while nothing ever lives in the galaxy ever again. Absolutely no predictions are made of anything chasing the Tyranids.

So I'd say it's a plot point they've completely dropped by now.

You're probably right, I'm most familiar with the 4th and 5th ed codicies. Then again, in my world Dreadknights and Centurions don't exist, the Starchild Prophecy is still cannon, and Ollanius Pius is still important.

So given that, I prescribe to the idea that the Brainboyz refer to the Old Ones. The snotlings may very well be the remnants of the Old Ones, and the orks may have stolen the brain food and rebelled. I think the Eldar are a more reliable source: the old ones were wiped by the Enslavers and the orks were too dumb to realise it wasn't their doing.

The 'nids fleeing something greater was part of the old "4 C'tan" fluff, which is probably why its been dropped now.

 Kain wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
Nah, the implication is that as terrible and powerful as the Tyranids are, they are themselves fleeing something greater. I believe it's mentioned in each Tyranid codex.

It's not mentioned in the 6e codex, which mentions that the Tyranids have consumed a thousand galaxies before this one and tries to convey a sense that we will all surely die just like the other one thousand galaxies and there's no hope for anyone. Of course it's a cruddex so you're probably asleep long before then. Warzone Valedor's novel also has the Eldar predict that the Tyranids will devour everything and leave nothing behind save for the Necrons who have nothing but barren dust to rule until the stars die; chugging away to the next meal while nothing ever lives in the galaxy ever again. Absolutely no predictions are made of anything chasing the Tyranids.

So I'd say it's a plot point they've completely dropped by now.

More eye rolling fun! The idea that they have eaten a thousand galaxies is typical GW nonsense of course. But it is extremely extreme so it fits the bill for that particular fluff writer!