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 Frazzled wrote:
How are you going to force five countries to take Palestinians? That could be difficult.

Well Jordan should probably shoulder most of that responsibility since most "Palestinians" were Jordanian citizens at one point. But other then that, how are we forcing the European Union and UN countries to take in Syrian refugees?

 Frazzled wrote:
How are you going to force five countries to take Palestinians? That could be difficult.

The world has gone as far as condoning suicide bombing and the stabbing of infants in order to force one country to take them. Forcing 5 more to take their supposedly beloved Muslim brothers really isn't any less reasonable.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
How are you going to force five countries to take Palestinians? That could be difficult.

The world has gone as far as condoning suicide bombing and the stabbing of infants in order to force one country to take them. Forcing 5 more to take their supposedly beloved Muslim brothers really isn't any less reasonable.

exalted.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
How are you going to force five countries to take Palestinians? That could be difficult.

Well Jordan should probably shoulder most of that responsibility since most "Palestinians" were Jordanian citizens at one point. But other then that, how are we forcing the European Union and UN countries to take in Syrian refugees?

We're not. They are just stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
How are you going to force five countries to take Palestinians? That could be difficult.

The world has gone as far as condoning suicide bombing and the stabbing of infants in order to force one country to take them. Forcing 5 more to take their supposedly beloved Muslim brothers really isn't any less reasonable.

Something something oil shutdown world economy depression something something.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Personally I think a better solution that would cause MASSIVE unrest at first but would eventually lead to calmer heads would be for the removal of all Islamic sites and people from Israel. Force Syria, Lebannon, Egypt, Jordan and other Islamic countries to take in the "Palestinians" and then enforce a strict border policy to protect Israel. At first this would create a lot of backlash and attacks but in the end the removal of the Palestinian problem would probably calm the middle east and not continuously inflame it.

3 of those countries are unstable. One is experiencing a 4 year long civil war, with possibly millions of people fleeing the country. And you want to force a big wave of Palestinian immigrants onto them against their will?

Besides, Islamic countries have for decades largely refused to take in Palestinians. The Islamic world prefers Palestinians exactly where they are - as human shields and a thorn in Israel's side. A proverbial stick for the rest of the world to beat Israel with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
How are you going to force five countries to take Palestinians? That could be difficult.

Well Jordan should probably shoulder most of that responsibility since most "Palestinians" were Jordanian citizens at one point. But other then that, how are we forcing the European Union and UN countries to take in Syrian refugees?

We're not. They are just stupid.

How many Syrian refugees is America taking in?...

Several thousand. My church is sponsoring two families. I didn't say we weren't stupid too.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:


Imo the problem is Hamas, and if the people elected Hamas then they are accountable for their actions. When the Arabs want peace they will elect a peaceful government. As it is they've shown that they want terrorism.

This line has been used by many others in many other situations to justify terrible things. "When X want Peace they'll do Y, but they've shown they want Z instead"

By the same logic, are the American people to be held responsible for the actions of the US government?

Now, let me state that I'm not in any way condoning what Hamas does, just taking issues with the line of thinking above.

Let's look at things from the Palestinians perspective. The government that chose to negotiate in the 90's turned out to be absurdly corrupt once in power and then got blasted to smithereens in 2000, losing the means to provide services and to police the population. A power gap develops, and the crazier guys come in an start their own brand of policing but also are the ones that fulfill the services that were no longer being carried out like garbage collection and medical services and schools and pay salaries that the Palestinian Authority no longer was paying. Now, of course they use such services to advance their political agendas ans spread their ideology, but when the only people who have been collecting the garbage and running schools to teach your children and running clinics for the sick and providing food and paychecks, and policing the streets at night, where the former Palestinian Authority could not (or would not), it's not hard to see why many would then start to vote for Hamas.

It's a pattern seen all over the middle east (and many other instances throughout history), where one ostensibly "bad" group falls and is replaced by something even more combative and militant, and people are continually surprised by it for some reason.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Personally I think a better solution that would cause MASSIVE unrest at first but would eventually lead to calmer heads would be for the removal of all Islamic sites and people from Israel. Force Syria, Lebannon, Egypt, Jordan and other Islamic countries to take in the "Palestinians" and then enforce a strict border policy to protect Israel. At first this would create a lot of backlash and attacks but in the end the removal of the Palestinian problem would probably calm the middle east and not continuously inflame it.

And the fact that most of these people have lived in the area for generations since before there was an Israel means nothing? You're literally advocating ethnic cleansing, like, by definition.

 Ghazkuul wrote:


Well Jordan should probably shoulder most of that responsibility since most "Palestinians" were Jordanian citizens at one point.

They were only Jordanian for a short period of time, about 20 years, as a result of Jordan annexing areas formerly part of the British Palestine Mandate, but the Israeli's kicked them out. Before that they were under British rule, and were Ottoman citizens before that.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Personally I think a better solution that would cause MASSIVE unrest at first but would eventually lead to calmer heads would be for the removal of all Islamic sites and people from Israel. Force Syria, Lebannon, Egypt, Jordan and other Islamic countries to take in the "Palestinians" and then enforce a strict border policy to protect Israel. At first this would create a lot of backlash and attacks but in the end the removal of the Palestinian problem would probably calm the middle east and not continuously inflame it.

That's insane, and disgusting. Forced displacement of people is arguably what caused the conflict in the first place. How you'd thing that this idea would solve anything at all is well beyond my capacity to comprehend.

Back to the topic, what can be done in part depends on what exactly is going on.

If, as put forth, these are just 'lone wolf' attacks by disaffected youths, there is not really a short term solution, but an immediate MISO type campaign getting respected Imams and other leaders to put forth sanctity of life/violence against innocents = bad messages and Friday prayer sermons would be a start. Have mothers/sisters of perps crying and while a father sadly speaks about how he wishes his son had taken a different path in life and not destroyed his family as well as that of others. Start pushing commonality of the youth age groups among Jewish and Arab youth (same styles, music, social media, problems with unemployment and strict parents/whatever. Couple these efforts with an effort (both kinetic and not) to take out the radicalizing elements, be they people or more nebulous social media sites.

If these are not just 'lone wolf' and are in fact some type of probing/coordinated efforts to judge timeliness/willingness of the population to initiate another intifada some of the above still work as counters to the message, but you really need to find the planning and coordinating support and leadership cells/nodes and destroy them.

Not end well.

Israel does not shy from force
Palestinian groups do not

Only ones who suffer most are civilians killed for just taking the bus to work, the person stood in line at bakery. They don t deserve any of this.

Clearly, we need to ban all knives in order to prevent such events to happen.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
This is the so-called 'Lone Wolf' scenario. I don't think there is very much that can be done to anticipate and prevent this kind of attack.

It's impossible to mass screen users of public and private transport. It's impossible to regulate knives when every household needs several of them for normal cooking purposes. It's impossible to detect a conspiracy that consists of one guy deciding to make this kind of attack by himself.

You can only wait for the attack to happen, then react as quickly and effectively as possible.

Like with a personal firearm carried for self defense?

Welcome to the fold

Self defense.
Security is now past a good guy with a gun but full blown military full auto rifles and far more firepower.

It's a state matter not just self defense

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Personally I think a better solution that would cause MASSIVE unrest at first but would eventually lead to calmer heads would be for the removal of all Islamic sites and people from Israel. Force Syria, Lebannon, Egypt, Jordan and other Islamic countries to take in the "Palestinians" and then enforce a strict border policy to protect Israel. At first this would create a lot of backlash and attacks but in the end the removal of the Palestinian problem would probably calm the middle east and not continuously inflame it.

Seriously? Thats what caused the whole problem in the first place! Forcefully relocating people never ends well. These people have lived there looong before Israel was a thing, and Im shocked that people would even consider forcefully removing palestinians from their homes. Not to invoke Godwins law, but thats really damn close to what the Nazis did. And its bound to end in open civil war, because *noone* is going to be happy to leave their home, their work, everything theyve worked so hard for to achieve. And you can bet your ass that the current problems in the area would seem absolutely insignificant in comparison to what would happen if your idea was implemented.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Cracked me up.

Israel stabbing: Israeli man stabs fellow Israeli Jew after 'mistaking him for Arab'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/a6692536.html

Stabbings are hilarious!

Dakka OT: Always classy.

You'll have to pardon him, he's Russian.

I'm also going to state in the strongest possible terms that it is nauseating (if not downright evil) to see members of this community attempting to rationalize and/or legitimize the fact that Jews are intentionally being targeted for murder by knife (or gun, or car, or cleaver), on the street, in broad daylight, due to their ethnicity, while simply going about their daily routines. That is as racist as racism can POSSIBLY get.

 Tyr13 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Personally I think a better solution that would cause MASSIVE unrest at first but would eventually lead to calmer heads would be for the removal of all Islamic sites and people from Israel. Force Syria, Lebannon, Egypt, Jordan and other Islamic countries to take in the "Palestinians" and then enforce a strict border policy to protect Israel. At first this would create a lot of backlash and attacks but in the end the removal of the Palestinian problem would probably calm the middle east and not continuously inflame it.

Seriously? Thats what caused the whole problem in the first place! Forcefully relocating people never ends well. These people have lived there looong before Israel was a thing, and Im shocked that people would even consider forcefully removing palestinians from their homes. Not to invoke Godwins law, but thats really damn close to what the Nazis did. And its bound to end in open civil war, because *noone* is going to be happy to leave their home, their work, everything theyve worked so hard for to achieve. And you can bet your ass that the current problems in the area would seem absolutely insignificant in comparison to what would happen if your idea was implemented.

Well 1: Israel existed before Islam so.......
2: Nazi's didn't relocate, they exterminated ......the jews. So comparing a religious group being relocated to the dozen or so countries in the surrounding area with similar beliefs and culture is in no way remotely close to Nazism. But you weren't trying to make sense you were more concerned with PC and looking like you care.
3: Palestinian is a term to describe ALL residents who lived within a specific area, in this case the area in/around Israel, it INCLUDES the Jews as well, somehow the world has forgotten about that.
4: Israel exists because the world is a racist place and hated/hates the jews. Give them a TINY country of their own and let them live as they wish, this BS about how Israel is holy Muslim ground is absolutely trash.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Tyr13 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Personally I think a better solution that would cause MASSIVE unrest at first but would eventually lead to calmer heads would be for the removal of all Islamic sites and people from Israel. Force Syria, Lebannon, Egypt, Jordan and other Islamic countries to take in the "Palestinians" and then enforce a strict border policy to protect Israel. At first this would create a lot of backlash and attacks but in the end the removal of the Palestinian problem would probably calm the middle east and not continuously inflame it.

Seriously? Thats what caused the whole problem in the first place! Forcefully relocating people never ends well. These people have lived there looong before Israel was a thing, and Im shocked that people would even consider forcefully removing palestinians from their homes. Not to invoke Godwins law, but thats really damn close to what the Nazis did. And its bound to end in open civil war, because *noone* is going to be happy to leave their home, their work, everything theyve worked so hard for to achieve. And you can bet your ass that the current problems in the area would seem absolutely insignificant in comparison to what would happen if your idea was implemented.

Well 1: Israel existed before Islam so.......
2: Nazi's didn't relocate, they exterminated ......the jews. So comparing a religious group being relocated to the dozen or so countries in the surrounding area with similar beliefs and culture is in no way remotely close to Nazism. But you weren't trying to make sense you were more concerned with PC and looking like you care.
3: Palestinian is a term to describe ALL residents who lived within a specific area, in this case the area in/around Israel, it INCLUDES the Jews as well, somehow the world has forgotten about that.
4: Israel exists because the world is a racist place and hated/hates the jews. Give them a TINY country of their own and let them live as they wish, this BS about how Israel is holy Muslim ground is absolutely trash.

You're still advocating ethnic cleansing (which doesn't require extermination, though relocation is typically the precursor) of people who have lived there at least as long as anyone else (Israel wasn't the only nation to ever exist there) based just on their religion (in an area which has seen a dozen or more religions come and go over the centuries, of which neither Judaism nor Islam is the oldest).

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Tyr13 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Personally I think a better solution that would cause MASSIVE unrest at first but would eventually lead to calmer heads would be for the removal of all Islamic sites and people from Israel. Force Syria, Lebannon, Egypt, Jordan and other Islamic countries to take in the "Palestinians" and then enforce a strict border policy to protect Israel. At first this would create a lot of backlash and attacks but in the end the removal of the Palestinian problem would probably calm the middle east and not continuously inflame it.

Seriously? Thats what caused the whole problem in the first place! Forcefully relocating people never ends well. These people have lived there looong before Israel was a thing, and Im shocked that people would even consider forcefully removing palestinians from their homes. Not to invoke Godwins law, but thats really damn close to what the Nazis did. And its bound to end in open civil war, because *noone* is going to be happy to leave their home, their work, everything theyve worked so hard for to achieve. And you can bet your ass that the current problems in the area would seem absolutely insignificant in comparison to what would happen if your idea was implemented.

Well 1: Israel existed before Islam so.......
2: Nazi's didn't relocate, they exterminated ......the jews. So comparing a religious group being relocated to the dozen or so countries in the surrounding area with similar beliefs and culture is in no way remotely close to Nazism. But you weren't trying to make sense you were more concerned with PC and looking like you care.
3: Palestinian is a term to describe ALL residents who lived within a specific area, in this case the area in/around Israel, it INCLUDES the Jews as well, somehow the world has forgotten about that.
4: Israel exists because the world is a racist place and hated/hates the jews. Give them a TINY country of their own and let them live as they wish, this BS about how Israel is holy Muslim ground is absolutely trash.

You're still advocating ethnic cleansing (which doesn't require extermination, though relocation is typically the precursor) of people who have lived there at least as long as anyone else (Israel wasn't the only nation to ever exist there) based just on their religion (in an area which has seen a dozen or more religions come and go over the centuries, of which neither Judaism nor Islam is the oldest).

Palestinian is not an ethnicity. They are exactly the same as Syrians and Jordanians.

Furthermore there are plenty of Arab Christians, Druze and Bedouins who coexist perfectly well with Israel and even serve in the IDF. The notion that Israel is an apartheid state is intellectually disingenuous and incorrect. Non-Jews in Israel can become full citizens.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Tyr13 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Personally I think a better solution that would cause MASSIVE unrest at first but would eventually lead to calmer heads would be for the removal of all Islamic sites and people from Israel. Force Syria, Lebannon, Egypt, Jordan and other Islamic countries to take in the "Palestinians" and then enforce a strict border policy to protect Israel. At first this would create a lot of backlash and attacks but in the end the removal of the Palestinian problem would probably calm the middle east and not continuously inflame it.

Seriously? Thats what caused the whole problem in the first place! Forcefully relocating people never ends well. These people have lived there looong before Israel was a thing, and Im shocked that people would even consider forcefully removing palestinians from their homes. Not to invoke Godwins law, but thats really damn close to what the Nazis did. And its bound to end in open civil war, because *noone* is going to be happy to leave their home, their work, everything theyve worked so hard for to achieve. And you can bet your ass that the current problems in the area would seem absolutely insignificant in comparison to what would happen if your idea was implemented.

Well 1: Israel existed before Islam so.......
2: Nazi's didn't relocate, they exterminated ......the jews. So comparing a religious group being relocated to the dozen or so countries in the surrounding area with similar beliefs and culture is in no way remotely close to Nazism. But you weren't trying to make sense you were more concerned with PC and looking like you care.
3: Palestinian is a term to describe ALL residents who lived within a specific area, in this case the area in/around Israel, it INCLUDES the Jews as well, somehow the world has forgotten about that.
4: Israel exists because the world is a racist place and hated/hates the jews. Give them a TINY country of their own and let them live as they wish, this BS about how Israel is holy Muslim ground is absolutely trash.

You're still advocating ethnic cleansing (which doesn't require extermination, though relocation is typically the precursor) of people who have lived there at least as long as anyone else (Israel wasn't the only nation to ever exist there) based just on their religion (in an area which has seen a dozen or more religions come and go over the centuries, of which neither Judaism nor Islam is the oldest).

Palestinian is not an ethnicity. They are exactly the same as Syrians and Jordanians.

You're getting into pedantic semantics. Ultimately we're talking about removing a group of people from an area where they've lived, often with land deeds from the Ottoman Empire, for being different from another group of people.

Let's also not forget that places like Syria aren't exactly homogenous groups either, they're remnants of political borders drawn by imperialistic powers, and are in many cases tearing themselves apart to reorder themselves.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Tyr13 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Personally I think a better solution that would cause MASSIVE unrest at first but would eventually lead to calmer heads would be for the removal of all Islamic sites and people from Israel. Force Syria, Lebannon, Egypt, Jordan and other Islamic countries to take in the "Palestinians" and then enforce a strict border policy to protect Israel. At first this would create a lot of backlash and attacks but in the end the removal of the Palestinian problem would probably calm the middle east and not continuously inflame it.

Seriously? Thats what caused the whole problem in the first place! Forcefully relocating people never ends well. These people have lived there looong before Israel was a thing, and Im shocked that people would even consider forcefully removing palestinians from their homes. Not to invoke Godwins law, but thats really damn close to what the Nazis did. And its bound to end in open civil war, because *noone* is going to be happy to leave their home, their work, everything theyve worked so hard for to achieve. And you can bet your ass that the current problems in the area would seem absolutely insignificant in comparison to what would happen if your idea was implemented.

Well 1: Israel existed before Islam so.......
2: Nazi's didn't relocate, they exterminated ......the jews. So comparing a religious group being relocated to the dozen or so countries in the surrounding area with similar beliefs and culture is in no way remotely close to Nazism. But you weren't trying to make sense you were more concerned with PC and looking like you care.
3: Palestinian is a term to describe ALL residents who lived within a specific area, in this case the area in/around Israel, it INCLUDES the Jews as well, somehow the world has forgotten about that.
4: Israel exists because the world is a racist place and hated/hates the jews. Give them a TINY country of their own and let them live as they wish, this BS about how Israel is holy Muslim ground is absolutely trash.

You're still advocating ethnic cleansing (which doesn't require extermination, though relocation is typically the precursor) of people who have lived there at least as long as anyone else (Israel wasn't the only nation to ever exist there) based just on their religion (in an area which has seen a dozen or more religions come and go over the centuries, of which neither Judaism nor Islam is the oldest).

Palestinian is not an ethnicity. They are exactly the same as Syrians and Jordanians.

You're getting into pedantic semantics. Ultimately we're talking about removing a group of people from an area where they've lived, often with land deeds from the Ottoman Empire, for being different from another group of people.

For being different? No. See my edit. Plenty of non-Jews get along perfectly fine in Israel as full citizens.

You're getting into pedantic semantics. Ultimately we're talking about removing a group of people from an area where they've lived, often with land deeds from the Ottoman Empire, for being different from another group of people.

No were advocating the removal of a group from a country. Thisgroup is responsible for some of the most violent terrorist attacks in the world and do not wish to live in peace with the country but instead wish to take it over and force the other religions to obey them.

Under jewish rule, Jerusalem has not had religious sites demolished and had graves expunged for the sake of defacing them. Under Muslim rule, Jerusalem saw several thousand year old religious sites defaced and destroyed, had christian/jewish graves dug up and used the Grave stones for the bottoms of septic tanks and other such things.

The Jews deserve a country of their own and Israel is the best option because that is historically where there entire religion lived. Islam on the other hand has Saudi Arabia for most of its holy sites and instead of moving there they are far more interested in fighting the jews for a small part of the middle east, even though there is no oil or other natural resources there to exploit.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

4: Israel exists because the world is a racist place and hated/hates the jews. Give them a TINY country of their own and let them live as they wish, this BS about how Israel is holy Muslim ground is absolutely trash.

Oh but its the THIRD holiest site in islam don't you know!

How far down the heirarchy of "holiness" in the eyes of islam does one go down before things become meaningless?

Remember folks, what touched this round of escalation was not Israel killing a kid or anything like that....its was the collective sentiment that JEWS might enter (or even start praying at!) one of the multitude of muslim "holy" places. What touched this off was racial/ethnic inclusivity in regards to a religious site. Ponder that for a few minutes.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
No were advocating the removal of a group from a country. Thisgroup is responsible for some of the most violent terrorist attacks in the world and do not wish to live in peace with the country but instead wish to take it over and force the other religions to obey them.

You're right, we should deport Israel's current government and place the country under more sensible and peaceful rule.

The Jews deserve a country of their own

Why?

Islam on the other hand has Saudi Arabia for most of its holy sites and instead of moving there they are far more interested in fighting the jews for a small part of the middle east, even though there is no oil or other natural resources there to exploit.

Yeah, "we were already living here when you arrived" is such a horrible reason to want to continue to live somewhere. They should just uproot their entire lives and move to Saudi Arabia because that's where Muslims naturally want to live, when they're not trying to kill all the Jews.

PS: are you aware that Islam is not a monolithic culture, and there are vast numbers of Muslims who share very little culturally with Saudi Arabia?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Oh but its the THIRD holiest site in islam don't you know!

How far down the heirarchy of "holiness" in the eyes of islam does one go down before things become meaningless?

I see, so religions are only allowed to have two holy sites, and should be forced to give up the rest? I guess that means the world can only have two Christian churches, so we'll have to close all of the rest.

Remember folks, what touched this round of escalation was not Israel killing a kid or anything like that....its was the collective sentiment that JEWS might enter (or even start praying at!) one of the multitude of muslim "holy" places. What touched this off was racial/ethnic inclusivity in regards to a religious site. Ponder that for a few minutes.

And next week we'll have a thread about how Israel bombed a bunch of innocent people or bulldozed a town to make room for their own settlers. Let's not pretend that Israel's hands are clean in this mess.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
No were advocating the removal of a group from a country. Thisgroup is responsible for some of the most violent terrorist attacks in the world and do not wish to live in peace with the country but instead wish to take it over and force the other religions to obey them.

You're right, we should deport Israel's current government and place the country under more sensible and peaceful rule.

The Jews deserve a country of their own

Why?

Islam on the other hand has Saudi Arabia for most of its holy sites and instead of moving there they are far more interested in fighting the jews for a small part of the middle east, even though there is no oil or other natural resources there to exploit.

Yeah, "we were already living here when you arrived" is such a horrible reason to want to continue to live somewhere. They should just uproot their entire lives and move to Saudi Arabia because that's where Muslims naturally want to live, when they're not trying to kill all the Jews.

PS: are you aware that Islam is not a monolithic culture, and there are vast numbers of Muslims who share very little culturally with Saudi Arabia?

are you aware that all muslims in the Gaza strip slums were offered Israeli citizenship if they would simply integrate into the society and not attempt to destroy it from within? were you aware that almost all of them said no we would rather sit in squalor then be ruled by a jew. Were also aware that the only reason they aren't in Jordan or Syria or Lebannon, egypt or iraq is because those countries want the Palestinians there so they can use it for political maneuvering in the hopes of one day removing the jewish homeland?

 Peregrine wrote:

The Jews deserve a country of their own

Why?

Because they fought for it, and won it. Same as Americans.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Because they fought for it, and won it. Same as Americans.

Apparently they didn't win it, since we're talking about how we still need to remove whole classes of people so that they can have a country.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Because they fought for it, and won it. Same as Americans.

Apparently they didn't win it, since we're talking about how we still need to remove whole classes of people so that they can have a country.

Somebody has a smacked-ass interpretation of history...

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Tyr13 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Personally I think a better solution that would cause MASSIVE unrest at first but would eventually lead to calmer heads would be for the removal of all Islamic sites and people from Israel. Force Syria, Lebannon, Egypt, Jordan and other Islamic countries to take in the "Palestinians" and then enforce a strict border policy to protect Israel. At first this would create a lot of backlash and attacks but in the end the removal of the Palestinian problem would probably calm the middle east and not continuously inflame it.

Seriously? Thats what caused the whole problem in the first place! Forcefully relocating people never ends well. These people have lived there looong before Israel was a thing, and Im shocked that people would even consider forcefully removing palestinians from their homes. Not to invoke Godwins law, but thats really damn close to what the Nazis did. And its bound to end in open civil war, because *noone* is going to be happy to leave their home, their work, everything theyve worked so hard for to achieve. And you can bet your ass that the current problems in the area would seem absolutely insignificant in comparison to what would happen if your idea was implemented.

Well 1: Israel existed before Islam so.......
2: Nazi's didn't relocate, they exterminated ......the jews. So comparing a religious group being relocated to the dozen or so countries in the surrounding area with similar beliefs and culture is in no way remotely close to Nazism. But you weren't trying to make sense you were more concerned with PC and looking like you care.
3: Palestinian is a term to describe ALL residents who lived within a specific area, in this case the area in/around Israel, it INCLUDES the Jews as well, somehow the world has forgotten about that.
4: Israel exists because the world is a racist place and hated/hates the jews. Give them a TINY country of their own and let them live as they wish, this BS about how Israel is holy Muslim ground is absolutely trash.

1. Phoenicians existed as a people and city states way before the Jews decided to stop wandering around so......... (you may have noticed that there is a marked difference between those people living on the Mediterranean and those further east? that difference is Phoenecian blood. People from Algiers and the Levant (somehow I forgot tunisia) are Phoenician, sure there's Arab mixed in but they are Phoenician.)
2. the Nazi's did relocate, you know, Warsaw ghetto , trains to the extermination centres.
3. I'll remember this next time you are cheering Palestinians being killed (see page 1)
4. They are also free to live in many other countries. I got a big thumbs up from an orthodox kid the other day as he was coming back from synagogue . Kinda proud of my ultra-orthodox beard now, and now understand why half the Lebanese I meet ask me if I'm Jewish
I will say that it is perfectly reasonable for a religion to gain religious sites in countries it lives in. I mean feth , Christianity has so many sites in Europe when clearly they should all be pagan.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Because they fought for it, and won it. Same as Americans.

Apparently they didn't win it, since we're talking about how we still need to remove whole classes of people so that they can have a country.

Somebody has a smacked-ass interpretation of history...

If you can't hold the country , you don't win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
No were advocating the removal of a group from a country. Thisgroup is responsible for some of the most violent terrorist attacks in the world and do not wish to live in peace with the country but instead wish to take it over and force the other religions to obey them.

You're right, we should deport Israel's current government and place the country under more sensible and peaceful rule.

The Jews deserve a country of their own

Why?

Islam on the other hand has Saudi Arabia for most of its holy sites and instead of moving there they are far more interested in fighting the jews for a small part of the middle east, even though there is no oil or other natural resources there to exploit.

Yeah, "we were already living here when you arrived" is such a horrible reason to want to continue to live somewhere. They should just uproot their entire lives and move to Saudi Arabia because that's where Muslims naturally want to live, when they're not trying to kill all the Jews.

PS: are you aware that Islam is not a monolithic culture, and there are vast numbers of Muslims who share very little culturally with Saudi Arabia?

are you aware that all muslims in the Gaza strip slums were offered Israeli citizenship if they would simply integrate into the society and not attempt to destroy it from within? were you aware that almost all of them said no we would rather sit in squalor then be ruled by a jew. Were also aware that the only reason they aren't in Jordan or Syria or Lebannon, egypt or iraq is because those countries want the Palestinians there so they can use it for political maneuvering in the hopes of one day removing the jewish homeland?

The PLO offered the Israeli Govt. the whole of Jerusalem except for a suburb on the outskirts in the early to late 1990s and the offer was not taken. I'd like to see the govt Israel would have now if those new citizens were given full voting rights - hopefully with less of anything to the right of Likud and with more added Meretz. I mean parts of likud are already starting to make rumbling noises about being outbred by the Israeli muslims and losing control of the government. I truly hope this happens.

I've always thought that the only real solution would be a three state one. Israel, Palestine, and Jerusalem as it's own separate city-state, with a very strong constitution affirming the normal civil rights (voting, speech, press, assembly) as well as religion and separation of church and state. And with laws that make sure that the various religious site are protected and preserved.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Because they fought for it, and won it. Same as Americans.

Apparently they didn't win it, since we're talking about how we still need to remove whole classes of people so that they can have a country.

touche