Jihadin wrote:

Clarify why you think its geopolitical and secular.
Clarify the reason(s) you think cause the conflict

 Orlanth wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

If you are going to state facts that don't exist then stop.

My facts did exist. For example, Dakka was able to back up with facts that Israel has killed several thousands Palestinian civilians in its campaign as collateral damage.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/deaths.html
http://www.ochaopt.org/content.aspx?id=1010361

Also if your going to quote to me how i am wrong about the geneva convention then you need to back it up with facts instead of how you think the geneva convention states it.

Will this do:
https://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_cha_chapter11_rule35

I didn't think I needed to prove to anyone that bombing hospital would be considered a war crime. You have to provide proof that a hospital not only had enemy combatants in it, but that they were firing from that location.
Having armed Hamas in a hospital is not a crime, a hospital related to a faction can have armed guards.
In fact it is the duty of hospital staff and guards to defend their patients. A lot of medical staff in front line hospitals don't know this, I recall tales that some were shocked when told of this stipulation in the Geneva conventions by ICRC legal professionals in military law, when I spoke to one of them on the subject.

So far all you have said was that Israel bombed a Palestinian hospital because Hamas had weapons stored there. You made no proofs that the weapons were illegal, and certainly gave no testimony to suggest that the hospital itself was uased as a figing platform. The only circumstancs in which an attack can be orchestrated legally, and then with caveats.

http://www.crimesofwar.org/a-z-guide/immunity-from-attack/

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Also HAMAS is listed as a terrorist organization, yes it does have a political wing, but the problem is that the political wing instigates rebellion and acts of terrorism. Hence the entire organization is listed as a TERRORIST organization.

Actually no. For example Sinn Fein is a political wing of the Provisional IRA. Because Sinn Fein of itself doesnt commit attacks it is a political wing and not a terrorist organisation.
Hamas political wing can claim the same.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

I am not denying that 2k Palestinian civilians were killed. I am saying that they were given repeated warnings to evacuate or move to a different area, and instead of listening they chose to shield HAMAS with their bodies.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Also as far as the Geneva convention is concerned, since you are in fact cherry picking let me put the relevant part up for you to read

"9.69 Military medical personnel, facilities and equipment are also entitled to general protection. However, they may lose this protection if they engage in acts harmful to the enemy. Before the protection of medical personnel and facilities is lost, a warning will normally be provided and reasonable time allowed to permit cessation of improper activities. In extreme cases, overriding military necessity may preclude such a warning. Protection will not be lost if medical members act in self-defence. Weapons may be carried."

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Military Planning and the utilization of a hospital as a supply depot or staging area are acts considered harmful to the enemy. There does not need to be enemy fighters inside actively shooting for the hospital to lose its protected status.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

So utilizing a Hospital for military operations would make that hospital a legitimate Military target. As I said, it wasn't just the fact that Hamas had fighters in the hospitals/schools it was the fact that they were utilizing them for storing military equipment and personnel which is a violation of the terms set forth by the Geneva convention which again means that those are legitimate military targets, and as I showed above, Israel gives numerous warnings that criteria, which doesn't have to be met, was in fact met.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Sinn Fein and the IRA are a completely different story, why? because the Sinn Fein never publicly announced its plans to kill every British soldier/civilian it ever came across. Nor did it advocate to the Irish as a population, to resist British rule with violence in the streets. Horrible comparison.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Orlandth: citation? go look at the IDF releases and information. Go look at the video I posted. if your not going to bother reading or watching things that go against your personal bias then I don't know what I can do. And the Geneva convention thing? Sure, I was in a combat zone and had to deal with it on a regular basis, but your right.......

 LethalShade wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Orlandth: citation? go look at the IDF releases and information. Go look at the video I posted. if your not going to bother reading or watching things that go against your personal bias then I don't know what I can do. And the Geneva convention thing? Sure, I was in a combat zone and had to deal with it on a regular basis, but your right.......

Well, I'd rather check independent releases/information, if it still exists.

 LethalShade wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:


Just have to lay this one out for you in case you like to propogate the myth that removing organised religion removes the violence of religion.

Oh no, let me be very very clear. I'm not talking about "organized religion", I am specifically pointing the finger at the Abrahamic faiths as being an absolute blight on humanity. Humans are violent by their very nature, and Abrahamic faith is the perfect steroid for that violence. I sincerely wish that the billions of people who hold those faiths were capable of letting go of them.

Hope that makes my position crystal clear, since you want to try and sound smart/snarky.

Blame it on human stupidity.

 Orlanth wrote:

The Soviet Union and its satellite states had an identical phenomenon, and those who were deluded enough to be militant atheists convinced of their own superior rationality were easy to channel into becoming violent tools of the oppressor state.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

Human stupidity is compounded when the steroid of abrahamic faith is applied.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

The binary division centered on "god's chosen" aspect of things, combined with the logical extreme's of fundamentalism in any of the three faiths is a recipe for the atrocities that are part of the historical and modern record. I'll also be very clear in that I am not applying these statements to all monotheistic faiths. Only islam, christianity, and jeudaism.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

I've never said I'm an aethist, and I've never advocated for international socialism. I'm against abrahamic faith, I beleive the abrahamic god is pure fething evil, and I think that the "big three" religions are more dangerous than the total stockpile of nuclear weapons on this planet.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

Human stupidity is compounded when the steroid of abrahamic faith is applied.

So blame them all wholecloth. How is that not bigotry?

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Are you really saying that you think terror attacks are a justifiable response?

No? I'm merely stating the truth. Heavy handed methods are clearly a factor in inciting further violence.

 Frazzled wrote:

If it were a state Israel could have already annihilated it.

Firstly, this has absolutely nothing to do with what has been said previously.
The point is that Palestine would be less of a target for illegal Israeli activities if it achieved greater international recognition. Why are you talking about annihilating it?

Secondly, are you seriously suggesting that it would be a viable political move for Israel to openly annex all of Palestine?

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Orlandth: citation? go look at the IDF releases and information. Go look at the video I posted. if your not going to bother reading or watching things that go against your personal bias then I don't know what I can do. And the Geneva convention thing? Sure, I was in a combat zone and had to deal with it on a regular basis, but your right.......

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:


Just have to lay this one out for you in case you like to propogate the myth that removing organised religion removes the violence of religion.

Oh no, let me be very very clear. I'm not talking about "organized religion", I am specifically pointing the finger at the Abrahamic faiths as being an absolute blight on humanity. Humans are violent by their very nature, and Abrahamic faith is the perfect steroid for that violence. I sincerely wish that the billions of people who hold those faiths were capable of letting go of them.

Hope that makes my position crystal clear, since you want to try and sound smart/snarky.

Blame it on human stupidity.

Human stupidity is compounded when the steroid of abrahamic faith is applied.

The binary division centered on "god's chosen" aspect of things, combined with the logical extreme's of fundamentalism in any of the three faiths is a recipe for the atrocities that are part of the historical and modern record. I'll also be very clear in that I am not applying these statements to all monotheistic faiths. Only islam, christianity, and jeudaism.

Relapse wrote:
Ain't family arguments a bitch? This one's been going on for over 2,000 years, so I don't envision it ending anytime soon.

Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been criticised for saying a Palestinian leader persuaded the Nazis to carry out the Holocaust.
Mr Netanyahu insisted Adolf Hitler had only wanted to expel Jews from Europe, but that Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini told him: "Burn them."
However, the chief historian at Israel's memorial to the Holocaust said this account was factually incorrect.
Israel's opposition leader called it "a dangerous historical distortion".
A senior Palestinian official meanwhile said it showed Mr Netanyahu hated Palestinians so much he was willing to absolve Hitler.
Tensions have been worsened since early October by a spate of stabbing and shooting attacks - several of them fatal - on Israelis by Palestinians, and one apparent revenge stabbing by an Israeli.
Israeli security forces have also clashed with rioting Palestinians, leading to deaths on the Palestinian side. The violence has also spread to the border with Gaza.
'Sad day'
Husseini, who died in 1974, was a Palestinian nationalist leader who led violent campaigns against Jews and the British authorities in what was then British Mandate Palestine in the 1920s and 1930s.
He fled the territory in 1937, but continued his campaign to oppose British plans to partition it into a Jewish state and an Arab one, allying himself with the Nazis during World War Two.
Husseini met Hitler in Berlin in November 1941, when he tried to persuade the Nazi leader to declare his support for the creation of an Arab state, according to German press reports at the time.
But in a speech at the World Zionist Congress in Jerusalem on Tuesday, Mr Netanyahu gave a different account.
Benjamin Netanyahu addresses the World Zionist Congress in Jerusalem (20 October 2015)Image copyrightReuters
Image caption
Israel's opposition leader demanded that Benjamin Netanyahu "correct" his remarks immediately
"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time - he wanted to expel the Jews," the Israeli prime minister said.
"And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said: 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.'
"'So what should I do with them?' he [Hitler] asked. He [Husseini] said: 'Burn them.'"
However, the chief historian of the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem, Professor Dina Porat, said Mr Netanyahu's statement was factually incorrect.
"You cannot say that it was the mufti who gave Hitler the idea to kill or burn Jews," she told the newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth. "It's not true. Their meeting occurred after a series of events that point to this."
Opposition leader Isaac Herzog said the prime minister's remarks played into the hands of Holocaust deniers.
"This is a dangerous historical distortion and I demand Netanyahu correct it immediately as it minimises the Holocaust, Nazism and... Hitler's part in our people's terrible disaster," he wrote on his Facebook page.
The Palestine Liberation Organisation's Secretary General, Saeb Erekat, said in a statement: "It is a sad day in history when the leader of the Israeli government hates his neighbour so much that he is willing to absolve the most notorious war criminal in history, Adolf Hitler, of the murder of six million Jews."
Mr Netanyahu later responded to the criticism, saying: "I had absolutely no intention of absolving Hitler of his diabolical responsibility for the extermination of Europe's Jews."
But, he added, it was "absurd to ignore the role played by the mufti", citing the testimony of the deputy of Adolf Eichmann - considered the architect of the Holocaust - at the Nuremberg trials.
"He said: 'The mufti played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews, the importance of which must not be disregarded.
"He has repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with whom he has been in contact - above all before Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler - the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution for the Palestine problem.'"
Husseini was sought for war crimes but never appeared at Nuremberg.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
It's okay guys, Hitler is now relevant to this thread.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34594563

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Netanyahu is now officially a crazy nutjob. Which is a pity, because he was a good guy.