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Am I missing something? I don't see the TK listed on there. Thanks a ton for this site though, it's very cool for those of us who are mathhammer aficionados!

If you're talking about my site I did not add TK because no one I know other than myself plays them and as GW doesn't "officially support" them, a lot of people dumped them. I didn't bring in many legacy items, only the things that are in their currently "supported" line.

Tomb Kings: B+

Tomb Kings if you're running cheese: A+++

There ya go!

What is cheese for them though? Chariots, knights and sphinxes? The settra rule still amuses me, where if you kneel you lose

If you are running it you probably know

Yeah looking offhand the sphinx is probably A+, the chariots are an A and the knights are probably an A, with a good handful of items behind it a solid B.

Very strong army.

That's the thing, I don't think TK have "cheese" per se, so much as their keywords, and Settra's ability to have every other hero use their command ability, just stacks too well. I won't go so far as to say they're broken, as you have to go 1000pts into Heroes just to maximize those stacking buffs, but they can definitely be a top-tier army both for damage out-put and survivability.

For context... Our meta has been crapping itself over Beastclaws, so I made the "best" TK list I could think of, which proceeded, in several games in a row, to remove two Thundertusks a turn, and then clean up left-overs, while sustaining NO long term damage, thanks to returning units.

When I trace the TK's "too good" status, and assets though, its almost always going to come back to Settra. He's no slouch in combat, miserable to remove from the table, has an obscenely strong command ability, lets everyone else around him use their command abilities, and then the insanity that is "Incantation of Desert Wind"... IE a 5:6 chance to let any Chariot/Necrosphinx/Necropolis Knight charge anything it wants, first turn.

That may be why GW removed them.

Not at all. GW killed the line, for whatever reasons (be they sales, plans to rebook in the future, who knows), but if they squatted any army that was too good, 40k Eldar would've disappeared years ago. :-p

Like I said, it really is just Settra. If you pull him out, suddenly TK are an army I will bring to any casual event, and have fun with. The whole thing just pivots around him competitively.

TK without settra but loaded down with sphinx and chariots caused a lot of heartburn here.

Well as a guy who has an army based around Putrid Blightkings I'd say they're a very powerful unit, 3+ to hit and any roll of a 6 results in D6 hits rather than 1, then 3+ to wound can be horrible, great against infantry and monster and heroes, but anything with decent saves can really screw them over.

 Fleshrott wrote:
Well as a guy who has an army based around Putrid Blightkings I'd say they're a very powerful unit, 3+ to hit and any roll of a 6 results in D6 hits rather than 1, then 3+ to wound can be horrible, great against infantry and monster and heroes, but anything with decent saves can really screw them over.

What's their rend like?

I'm also surprised we haven't had the walking tank known as the Mourngul.

 Spyro_Killer wrote:

 Fleshrott wrote:
Well as a guy who has an army based around Putrid Blightkings I'd say they're a very powerful unit, 3+ to hit and any roll of a 6 results in D6 hits rather than 1, then 3+ to wound can be horrible, great against infantry and monster and heroes, but anything with decent saves can really screw them over.

What's their rend like?

They have 0 rend, thus the 'decent saves' problem.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I'm also surprised we haven't had the walking tank known as the Mourngul.

I think its because his popularity is over-blown. If someone fields one in an army that makes sense, you know they may very well just enjoy the model. (I own one, and will run it on RARE occasion). But the odds of seeing someone at a tournament with 2-3 of them on the table is unlikely outside of "That F'n Guy" scenarios. He's still a, relatively speaking, expensive model that only those who buy Forgeworld may even be aware of, so it isn't nearly the wide-spread plague of something like a Wraith-Knight in 40k whose cost-to-awesome ratio is just stupid, and readily available.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I'm also surprised we haven't had the walking tank known as the Mourngul.

I think its because his popularity is over-blown. If someone fields one in an army that makes sense, you know they may very well just enjoy the model. (I own one, and will run it on RARE occasion). But the odds of seeing someone at a tournament with 2-3 of them on the table is unlikely outside of "That F'n Guy" scenarios. He's still a, relatively speaking, expensive model that only those who buy Forgeworld may even be aware of, so it isn't nearly the wide-spread plague of something like a Wraith-Knight in 40k whose cost-to-awesome ratio is just stupid, and readily available.

Played a 3,320 pt games Fyreslayers vs. Death on Saturday and I was nervous about the Mournghoul. He had two more he could summon but asked if it was too much to even bring a Mournghoul at all (something I appreciated). I might have been too worried about it, throwing 25 vulkites at it on turn 2 to tie it up. I was nasty but the "ward" save on the vulkites allowed me to tie up some of his nasties and then fed it sacrificial models the rest of the game. We did the narrative scenario War of Storms so kill points weren't a thing. They are tough, not sure if I'd say strongest but potentially for someone with no extra saving power. But now I know how to be ready next time.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I'm also surprised we haven't had the walking tank known as the Mourngul.

I think its because his popularity is over-blown. If someone fields one in an army that makes sense, you know they may very well just enjoy the model. (I own one, and will run it on RARE occasion). But the odds of seeing someone at a tournament with 2-3 of them on the table is unlikely outside of "That F'n Guy" scenarios. He's still a, relatively speaking, expensive model that only those who buy Forgeworld may even be aware of, so it isn't nearly the wide-spread plague of something like a Wraith-Knight in 40k whose cost-to-awesome ratio is just stupid, and readily available.

I spent $30 on Reaper models to use as counts-as, and am running three in an upcoming tournament. Would never use them in a regular game though.

would anyone say the zombie dragon is overpriced? it's listed as A+ but every game I play with it it dies so horribly

Skaven Stormfiends, anyone?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
would anyone say the zombie dragon is overpriced? it's listed as A+ but every game I play with it it dies so horribly

Which variety? Zombie Dragon alone, Zombie Dragon with Vampire, or Zombie Dragon with Ghoul King? At any rate if you have trouble with it dying try having it come in on a flank after your main troop blocks have engaged.


Stormfiends are good, but a large part of that is their ability to be battleline.

Not that the Tomb Kings really need another biggest gribbly, but the Mourngul seems like it would be absurd in that army. TK don't have an overall allegiance beyond death, so you don't really lose much from fielding one (other than your ability to find opponents...). Settra's command gives all Death units +1 to hit, which is a tremendous boon to the Mourngul, and it can't be diverted as easily by a sacrificial unit like the Necrosphinx can.

A healthy Mourngul puts out something like 10-11 unsaved wounds per round against a 4+ save target when affected by Settra's ability.

Add in Screaming Skull Catapults to Morale Bomb nearby targets and ensure most enemies suffer -2 to hit and you've really got yourself a stew going.

Not th strongest but a unit of ripperdactyls can be destructive, in theory, and I stress in theory, 3 attacks at 3+ to hit and wound, re-rolls on both and another attack if you hit until you have no more attacks. I demolished a unit of chaos warriors.

 999drako wrote:
Not th strongest but a unit of ripperdactyls can be destructive, in theory, and I stress in theory, 3 attacks at 3+ to hit and wound, re-rolls on both and another attack if you hit until you have no more attacks. I demolished a unit of chaos warriors.

According to the warscroll that I am looking at Ripperdactyls only get to add new attacks on hits from Beak attacks, which is only 1 attack per model at a 4+ to hit.

YES! Stormfiends and warp lighting cannons

swarmofseals wrote:

 999drako wrote:
Not th strongest but a unit of ripperdactyls can be destructive, in theory, and I stress in theory, 3 attacks at 3+ to hit and wound, re-rolls on both and another attack if you hit until you have no more attacks. I demolished a unit of chaos warriors.

According to the warscroll that I am looking at Ripperdactyls only get to add new attacks on hits from Beak attacks, which is only 1 attack per model at a 4+ to hit.

They get toad rage and make 3 attacks each. However, the extra attacks themselves do not generate extra attacks in Matched Play due to a rule of one, drako was probably playing narrative.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

swarmofseals wrote:

 999drako wrote:
Not th strongest but a unit of ripperdactyls can be destructive, in theory, and I stress in theory, 3 attacks at 3+ to hit and wound, re-rolls on both and another attack if you hit until you have no more attacks. I demolished a unit of chaos warriors.

According to the warscroll that I am looking at Ripperdactyls only get to add new attacks on hits from Beak attacks, which is only 1 attack per model at a 4+ to hit.

They get toad rage and make 3 attacks each. However, the extra attacks themselves do not generate extra attacks in Matched Play due to a rule of one, drako was probably playing narrative.

Ahh I see, OK. Didn't realize we were assuming Toad Rage. God, Toad Rage is an awesome name for a rule.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
would anyone say the zombie dragon is overpriced? it's listed as A+ but every game I play with it it dies so horribly

Which variety? Zombie Dragon alone, Zombie Dragon with Vampire, or Zombie Dragon with Ghoul King? At any rate if you have trouble with it dying try having it come in on a flank after your main troop blocks have engaged.


Stormfiends are good, but a large part of that is their ability to be battleline.

Whoops, I ment Vamp lord on zombie Dragon

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
would anyone say the zombie dragon is overpriced? it's listed as A+ but every game I play with it it dies so horribly

Which variety? Zombie Dragon alone, Zombie Dragon with Vampire, or Zombie Dragon with Ghoul King? At any rate if you have trouble with it dying try having it come in on a flank after your main troop blocks have engaged.


Stormfiends are good, but a large part of that is their ability to be battleline.

Whoops, I ment Vamp lord on zombie Dragon

Are you using the shield and goblet of blood? Those are powerful upgrades that come free in Matched Play so we're presumably factored into the rating.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I'm also surprised we haven't had the walking tank known as the Mourngul.

I think its because his popularity is over-blown. If someone fields one in an army that makes sense, you know they may very well just enjoy the model. (I own one, and will run it on RARE occasion). But the odds of seeing someone at a tournament with 2-3 of them on the table is unlikely outside of "That F'n Guy" scenarios. He's still a, relatively speaking, expensive model that only those who buy Forgeworld may even be aware of, so it isn't nearly the wide-spread plague of something like a Wraith-Knight in 40k whose cost-to-awesome ratio is just stupid, and readily available.

I spent $30 on Reaper models to use as counts-as, and am running three in an upcoming tournament. Would never use them in a regular game though.

To be fair... that might work locally, but in our competitive community, proxy-models aren't allowed in tournaments. Its all good for casual play, but one of the ways out community has stayed competitive without attracting those-guy types is by making it cost prohibitive for them. If those three Mourngul were costing you $90 a piece, shipped, you probably wouldn't be running three, while not outright penalizing someone who bought one because they loved it.

Obviously thats just around these parts and a dynamic we've worked out as a whole local community. To be fair, the dude who tried buying wins by starting Beastclaw right before a tournament and showing up with four Thundertusks was just dealt with by us all list tailoring to take him down. The minute someone like that loses every match at a tournament after spending $400 on it... they tend to stop trying to pay-2-win. :-p

I think the point stands that the concerns with overpowered models are valid even if those models are expensive. And tbf if the 4-thundertusk guy promted the rest of you to tailor lists then I'd say there's an issue regardless of who won, a model is pretty OP of it got the whole tournament tailoring against it! (And besides if he had that much of a problem then he wasn't doing it right, which thundertusks was he running?)

I think both Thundertusks and Mournguls are pretty powerful, though as for strongest unit in the game I'm not sure. It's hard to beat Settra IMO because of the synergy value. Going back to Stormfiends, it occurs that they are insanely good when used in the Skryre cheese list, they might take top spot in that specific context.

[Edit] Just to caveat my statements, I do not support broken list building, spamming OP models, etc outside of tournaments! For me a tournament changes the dynamic since the primary goal becomes winning (over just having fun) and if a tournament doesn't want OP stuff taking over they are free to add some sort of comp which negates the advantage.