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2019/03/04 15:21:09
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
And before you can shoot (or substitute shooting) you need to select a viable unit.
"1. Choose Unit to Shoot With
In your Shooting phase you can shoot
with models armed with ranged weapons.
First, you must pick one of your units
to shoot with."
Except we don't because the FAQ states that a unit which cannot shoot can still use abilities which replace shooting.
A Rhino with no guns (therefore not viable to shoot with as per the rules "In your Shooting phase you can shoot
with models armed with ranged weapons.") could still use its smoke launchers as the ability to shoot is not required, as per the FAQ.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 15:22:29
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2019/03/04 15:21:10
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
I agree with those pointing out there's no means to select the unit to fire during your opponent's shooting phase. Could you choose to launch smoke instead of firing over watch? I'm not saying it'd be effective, but might get more of a chuckle from your opponent than if you try to do it during his shooting phase.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 15:27:22
And before you can shoot (or substitute shooting) you need to select a viable unit.
"1. Choose Unit to Shoot With
In your Shooting phase you can shoot
with models armed with ranged weapons.
First, you must pick one of your units
to shoot with."
Except we don't because the FAQ states that a unit which cannot shoot can still use abilities which replace shooting.
A Rhino with no guns could still use its smoke launchers as the ability to shoot is not required, as per the FAQ.
You can still select a unit to shoot with that has no shooting weapons in your Shooting Phase because it's step 1, before choosing a target unit or a weapon to shoot with.
2019/03/04 15:29:57
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
And before you can shoot (or substitute shooting) you need to select a viable unit.
"1. Choose Unit to Shoot With
In your Shooting phase you can shoot
with models armed with ranged weapons.
First, you must pick one of your units
to shoot with."
Except we don't because the FAQ states that a unit which cannot shoot can still use abilities which replace shooting.
A Rhino with no guns could still use its smoke launchers as the ability to shoot is not required, as per the FAQ.
You can still select a unit to shoot with that has no shooting weapons in your Shooting Phase because it's step 1, before choosing a target unit or a weapon to shoot with.
Smoke launchers aren't a weapon trying to make a shooting attack. It's a unit ability being activated. The shooting phase sequencing rules have no bearing.
2019/03/04 15:32:20
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
And before you can shoot (or substitute shooting) you need to select a viable unit.
"1. Choose Unit to Shoot With
In your Shooting phase you can shoot
with models armed with ranged weapons.
First, you must pick one of your units
to shoot with."
Except we don't because the FAQ states that a unit which cannot shoot can still use abilities which replace shooting.
A Rhino with no guns could still use its smoke launchers as the ability to shoot is not required, as per the FAQ.
You can still select a unit to shoot with that has no shooting weapons in your Shooting Phase because it's step 1, before choosing a target unit or a weapon to shoot with.
Smoke launchers aren't a weapon trying to make a shooting attack. It's a unit ability being activated. The shooting phase sequencing rules have no bearing.
Why not? Where does it say that it's happening at the start/end of the Shooting Phase? Because that would be an exception that allows to ignore normal sequencing.
"Instead of shooting" does not.
2019/03/04 15:38:21
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
It's almost like patching your ruleset with decree via rules ignoring FAQs instead of proper errata changing the rules causes more problems than it solves. A surprising revelation no-one could have predicted!
Galef wrote: Why does this matter? I've shown that due to Sequencing, you can resolve you Shooting before your opponent has a chance to use Smoke.
I like this answer because it gives GW a micrometer thin veneer of competency. "See, we didn't write that rule badly, because we wrote this OTHER rule to deal with it in a totally round-about and unintuitive way!
That being said, this still gives you the ability to bypass the "no shooting" clause, which goes against the "spirit" of the rules.
p5freak's interpretation is "wrong", but not invalid thanks to GW issuing Special Snowflaking FAQs like they are going out of style instead of writing their rules correctly. What GW need to do is write the smoke launcher rule correctly, thus negating the need for the Special Snowflake FAQ regarding "instead of shooting".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 15:38:55
2019/03/04 15:38:50
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
No activation of units in the opponent's phase except close combat. Otherwise I will be casting with all my thousand sons on my opponent's psychic phase as well, as there is literally nothing in the rules stating that I can only cast on my own psychic phase.
14000
15000
4000
2019/03/04 16:06:55
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
BaconCatBug wrote: It's almost like patching your ruleset with decree via rules ignoring FAQs instead of proper errata changing the rules causes more problems than it solves. A surprising revelation no-one could have predicted!
Galef wrote: Why does this matter? I've shown that due to Sequencing, you can resolve you Shooting before your opponent has a chance to use Smoke.
I like this answer because it gives GW a micrometer thin veneer of competency. "See, we didn't write that rule badly, because we wrote this OTHER rule to deal with it in a totally round-about and unintuitive way!
That being said, this still gives you the ability to bypass the "no shooting" clause, which goes against the "spirit" of the rules.
p5freak's interpretation is "wrong", but not invalid thanks to GW issuing Special Snowflaking FAQs like they are going out of style instead of writing their rules correctly. What GW need to do is write the smoke launcher rule correctly, thus negating the need for the Special Snowflake FAQ regarding "instead of shooting".
I agree with BCB 100% in this case. Strictly as per RAW, whether it be due to ambiguous writing or simply poorly written, the usage condition for smoke launchers does indeed say a certain unspecified 'shooting phase.'
What I'm asking for is, is the liberty of interpreting "any unspecified shooting phase" as "any shooting phase, regardless of mine or the opponent's" granted to us? Is there an explicit and specific provisions within the rulebook that tells us if the phrase "shooting phase" is not specified as during my own turn or during opponent's turn, we are allowed to interpret it as as during mine AND/OR opponent's?
2019/03/04 16:16:52
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
Galef wrote: Not to add fuel to this dumpster fire, but the rules for Smoke launchers does say "Once per game, instead of shooting any weapons in THE Shooting phase, this model can use it's smoke launchers...."
It doesn't say YOUR Shooting phase, so permission could be said to be given.
The only problem is "when" can you do this? I would argue that since it is your opponents turn, per Sequencing, they can choose the order in which this is resolved.
Ergo, they choose to resolve ALL their shooting first, then allow you to pop your Smoke Launchers
So while you can certainly argue that you can 100% use Smoke Launchers in your opponents turn, what would be the point?
Having said that, I would be fine if GWFAQ'd this to be allowed (before your opponent's shooting) because it's a once per game ability that right now is pretty useless because it stops you from shooting in your turn. If Smoke gave you -1 to hit instead, Smoke would be useful.
But giving up your shooting entirely to give a -1 to your opponent is NOT a fair trade.
-
How would you be able to select one of your units in the enemy Shooting Phase?
Step 1 of the Shooting Phase sequence defines that it has to be your Shooting Phase to select one of your units to shoot with.
The takeaway from my post should have been that even if you found a way to choose one of your units, it would NOT matter.
Because then you would have a Sequencing issue, in which the player whose turn it is (your opponent) would get to choose what gets resolved first.
Someone will find a way to say they can choose their units to use Smoke, because the FAQs say you can use them. So rather than support/refute that, I found it easier just to shoot down its relevance.
Case in point:
A Town Called Malus wrote: Where in the rules for smoke launchers does it state that you must select the model to shoot with in order to activate the ability?
This is actually a good point. Smoke is an ability, which doesn't require selecting the unit to use, as otherwise loads of abilities would not work.
But it does require "activation" unlike passive abilities. And that "activation" can be up to the player whose turn it is.
So I would resolve all my shooting first, then allow my opponent to pop Smoke if they still want to.
-
Most abilities that are intended to work in the enemy turn/phase usually have a when X happens you may do Y so the permission to use the ability is written in by the activation requirement.
But more practically that sequencing rebuke is nice to have for when someone decieds to go full douche.
2019/03/04 16:35:12
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
Ice_can wrote: Most abilities that are intended to work in the enemy turn/phase usually have a when X happens you may do Y so the permission to use the ability is written in by the activation requirement.
But more practically that sequencing rebuke is nice to have for when someone decieds to go full douche.
Which is basically HIWPI if an opponent wants to use their Smoke in my turn.
Rather than get into a long, potentially draw out argument as to whether they can do it (like how this thread is going) and thus wasting valuable game time, I would relent and allow my opponent to use their Smoke. But per sequencing, I would choose to resolve my shooting before they can activate their Smoke, thereby making the point moot.
-
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 16:36:02
Ice_can wrote: Most abilities that are intended to work in the enemy turn/phase usually have a when X happens you may do Y so the permission to use the ability is written in by the activation requirement.
But more practically that sequencing rebuke is nice to have for when someone decieds to go full douche.
Which is basically HIWPI if an opponent wants to use their Smoke in my turn.
Rather than get into a long, potentially draw out argument as to whether they can do it (like how this thread is going) and thus wasting valuable game time, I would relent and allow my opponent to use their Smoke.
But per sequencing, I would choose to resolve my shooting before they can activate their Smoke, thereby making the point moot.
-
I love this solution so much, hahaha.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
2019/03/04 17:42:49
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
topaxygouroun i wrote: No activation of units in the opponent's phase except close combat. Otherwise I will be casting with all my thousand sons on my opponent's psychic phase as well, as there is literally nothing in the rules stating that I can only cast on my own psychic phase.
There is no restriction in the Psychic Phase rules, but you better check your unit data sheets
2019/03/04 21:57:26
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
Eihnlazer wrote: Noone can disprove you, good job. Nobody needs to disprove you.
We know it wasn't intended.
Except I have disproved him...
No, you actually haven't. The answer in the FAQ clearly states that it can use the smoke launchers even if the model can't actually shoot. The Rhino can NOT shoot in the opponent's shooting phase, therefor it can still use its' smoke launchers. RAW (including the FAQ) shows that you can -in fact- use smoke launchers in your opponent's shooting phase.
I have disproved him, he is ignoring the context of the rules. it is not about the "Rhino can NOT shoot in the opponent's shooting phase" it is about the context of the FAQ which, in context, means that if you can not shoot on your turn, you can still use smoke.
The FAQ does not apply.
The FAQ only applies to your turn, because of the context of the FAQ.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 22:00:38
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
2019/03/04 22:00:58
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
DeathReaper wrote: I have disproved him, he is ignoring the context of the rules. it is not about the "Rhino can NOT shoot in the opponent's shooting phase" it is about the context of the FAQ which, in context, means that if you can not shoot on your turn, you can still use smoke.
The FAQ does not apply.
The FAQ only applies to your turn, because of the context of the FAQ.
Context doesn't change what the rules say. You constantly keep screaming about context and refuse to engage in discussion or provide citations.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 22:01:24
2019/03/04 22:08:53
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
DeathReaper wrote: I have disproved him, he is ignoring the context of the rules. it is not about the "Rhino can NOT shoot in the opponent's shooting phase" it is about the context of the FAQ which, in context, means that if you can not shoot on your turn, you can still use smoke.
The FAQ does not apply.
The FAQ only applies to your turn, because of the context of the FAQ.
Context doesn't change what the rules say. You constantly keep screaming about context and refuse to engage in discussion or provide citations.
That is because some are ignoring the context of the FAQ. Let me break it down so you guys understand the context.
The FAQ states that
Q: Can abilities that are used ‘instead of shooting’, such as Smoke Launchers, be used if the model using them has Fallen Back, Advanced or has enemy models within 1" of it?
A: Yes. A model can use such an ability so long as it does not shoot – it does not matter whether this is because the model cannot shoot or it chooses not to.
They are talking about abilities that are used ‘instead of shooting’ Shooting happens in your own shooting phase. That is the context of that FAQ. Your own shooting phase, not the opponents.
Smoke launchers can be used (When you would normally be able to shoot, but something is disallowing that shooting like being within 1 inch of an enemy model in your own shooting phase.
Please do not ignore the context of the FAQ.
It does not mean that you can use Smoke in your enemies turn.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
2019/03/04 22:19:52
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
DeathReaper wrote: I have disproved him, he is ignoring the context of the rules. it is not about the "Rhino can NOT shoot in the opponent's shooting phase" it is about the context of the FAQ which, in context, means that if you can not shoot on your turn, you can still use smoke.
The FAQ does not apply.
The FAQ only applies to your turn, because of the context of the FAQ.
Context doesn't change what the rules say. You constantly keep screaming about context and refuse to engage in discussion or provide citations.
That is because some are ignoring the context of the FAQ. Let me break it down so you guys understand the context.
The FAQ states that
Q: Can abilities that are used ‘instead of shooting’, such as Smoke Launchers, be used if the model using them has Fallen Back, Advanced or has enemy models within 1" of it? A: Yes. A model can use such an ability so long as it does not shoot – it does not matter whether this is because the model cannot shoot or it chooses not to.
They are talking about abilities that are used ‘instead of shooting’ Shooting happens in your own shooting phase. That is the context of that FAQ. Your own shooting phase, not the opponents.
Smoke launchers can be used (When you would normally be able to shoot, but something is disallowing that shooting like being within 1 inch of an enemy model in your own shooting phase.
Please do not ignore the context of the FAQ.
It does not mean that you can use Smoke in your enemies turn.
You can do "instead of shooting" even if you cannot shoot. It literally says "it does not matter whether this is because the model cannot shoot or it chooses not to." You cannot shoot in your opponents shooting phase. Therefore, due to FAQ, you may use Smoke Launchers. It's stupid, but it's par for the course when it comes to GW.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 22:20:06
2019/03/04 23:10:32
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
BaconCatBug wrote: You can do "instead of shooting" even if you cannot shoot. It literally says "it does not matter whether this is because the model cannot shoot or it chooses not to." You cannot shoot in your opponents shooting phase. Therefore, due to FAQ, you may use Smoke Launchers. It's stupid, but it's par for the course when it comes to GW.
"You can do "instead of shooting" even if you cannot shoot." Right but you would need to have been able to shoot in the first place to use a "cannot shoot or it chooses not to." ability...
"chooses not to" means, in the models shooting phase, it chooses not to shoot.
"cannot shoot" means, in the models shooting phase, it can not to shoot for some reason.
So if you think you can use Smoke Launchers in an enemies turn you are ignoring the context of the rules.
So the claim of "Therefore, due to FAQ, you may use Smoke Launchers" is totally false.
Stop ignoring the context.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 23:10:53
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
2019/03/04 23:13:37
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
BaconCatBug wrote: You can do "instead of shooting" even if you cannot shoot. It literally says "it does not matter whether this is because the model cannot shoot or it chooses not to." You cannot shoot in your opponents shooting phase. Therefore, due to FAQ, you may use Smoke Launchers. It's stupid, but it's par for the course when it comes to GW.
"You can do "instead of shooting" even if you cannot shoot." Right but you would need to have been able to shoot in the first place to use a "cannot shoot or it chooses not to." ability...
"chooses not to" means, in the models shooting phase, it chooses not to shoot.
"cannot shoot" means, in the models shooting phase, it can not to shoot for some reason.
So if you think you can use Smoke Launchers in an enemies turn you are ignoring the context of the rules.
So the claim of "Therefore, due to FAQ, you may use Smoke Launchers" is totally false.
Stop ignoring the context
The context, in this case, is pretty much irrelevant. Or, more accurately, it doesn't change the words' meanings.
By strict RAW, you can use Smoke Launchers in your opponent's shooting phase.
Trust me-it's easier to say "Man, this part of the rules really sucks. Let's just not play that way," than it is to try to contort bad RAW into actually working.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 23:14:16
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2019/03/04 23:17:01
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
DeathReaper wrote: "cannot shoot" means, in the models shooting phase, it can not to shoot for some reason.
I am pretty sure that "cannot shoot" means "cannot shoot". If it meant to say "in the models shooting phase, it can not to shoot for some reason" it would say "in the models shooting phase, it can not to shoot for some reason".
If we're just going to redefine every word in the English Language I'd rather be working on my Assembly Code assignment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 23:17:29
2019/03/04 23:17:41
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
JNAProductions wrote: The context, in this case, is pretty much irrelevant. Or, more accurately, it doesn't change the words' meanings.
By strict RAW, you can use Smoke Launchers in your opponent's shooting phase.
Incorrect. You can not use Smoke Launchers in your opponent's shooting phase
To do so would be to ignore the context of the Smoke launchers rules.
Smoke launchers Once per game, instead of shooting any weapons in the Shooting phase...
Look at the context here. are they talking about your own shooting phase or your opponents?
From the context (instead of shooting any weapons is the context for this. it is clearly talking about your own shooting phase) we can tell what shooting phase it is talking about. And that would be your own shooting phase, and not your opponents.
DeathReaper wrote: "cannot shoot" means, in the models shooting phase, it can not to shoot for some reason.
I am pretty sure that "cannot shoot" means "cannot shoot". If it meant to say "in the models shooting phase, it can not to shoot for some reason" it would say "in the models shooting phase, it can not to shoot for some reason".
If we're just going to redefine every word in the English Language I'd rather be working on my Assembly Code assignment.
Not redefining anything. I am just not ignoring the context of the rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 23:18:37
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
2019/03/04 23:18:37
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
JNAProductions wrote: They're talking about "the shooting phase". If it said "your shooting phase" you'd have a leg to stand on. It does not.
RAI, I agree with you, and I'm pretty sure everyone except BCB does too. But RAI is not RAW.
They are talking about " instead of shooting any weapons in the Shooting phase" (from Smoke launcher rules).
Taken in context that absolutely means "your shooting phase"
So RAW what I have said is correct.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 23:19:56
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
2019/03/04 23:20:44
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
JNAProductions wrote: They're talking about "the shooting phase". If it said "your shooting phase" you'd have a leg to stand on. It does not.
RAI, I agree with you, and I'm pretty sure everyone except BCB does too. But RAI is not RAW.
They are talking about " instead of shooting any weapons in the Shooting phase" (from Smoke launcher rules).
Taken in context that absolutely means "your shooting phase"
Again, RAI I agree.
RAW does not. It would've worked, before that FAQ, since that FAQ explicitly states you do not need to be able to shoot to activate an ability like Smoke Launchers.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2019/03/04 23:25:04
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
DeathReaper wrote: Not redefining anything. I am just not ignoring the context of the rules.
There is no "context". Please show me in the rulebook where it defines "context". By your logic, I can claim that the "context" of my Marines being Ultramarines means they get 409 wounds each and a 1++ feel no pain.
Again, context isn't a magical word that suddenly makes your incorrect arguments correct.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/04 23:25:35
2019/03/04 23:26:57
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
RAW does not. It would've worked, before that FAQ, since that FAQ explicitly states you do not need to be able to shoot to activate an ability like Smoke Launchers.
RAW does agree with what I have posted though.
Taken in context that absolutely means "your shooting phase"
The FAQ really does not even enter into it because the Smoke launcher rules are talking about your own shooting phase.
However the FAQ is even referring to your own shooting phase.
Ignoring the context can bring results like the OP posted.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
2019/03/04 23:29:04
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
RAW does not. It would've worked, before that FAQ, since that FAQ explicitly states you do not need to be able to shoot to activate an ability like Smoke Launchers.
RAW does agree with what I have posted though.
Taken in context that absolutely means "your shooting phase"
The FAQ really does not even enter into it because the Smoke launcher rules are talking about your own shooting phase.
However the FAQ is even referring to your own shooting phase.
Ignoring the context can bring results like the OP posted.
Context is needed for RAI.
It's not for RAW. And the context has no effect on the RAW as stated by myself and others in this thread.
Is there a reason you're so dead-set on GW having perfect rules writing? Because it seems an odd hill to die on.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2019/03/04 23:33:45
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
DeathReaper wrote: Not redefining anything. I am just not ignoring the context of the rules.
There is no "context". Please show me in the rulebook where it defines "context"
There is context...
Please look up what context means. We need to use the English definition of context as it is not defined in the rules.
By your logic, I can claim that the "context" of my Marines being Ultramarines means they get 409 wounds each and a 1++ feel no pain.
Incorrect. there is nothing in the rules to even suggest this.
Again, context isn't a magical word that suddenly makes your incorrect arguments correct.
There is context,
Let me post the definition since you don't seem to understand what context means.
con·text
noun
the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
So to fully understand the rules we need to know the context.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
2019/03/04 23:58:12
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
DeathReaper wrote: Not redefining anything. I am just not ignoring the context of the rules.
There is no "context". Please show me in the rulebook where it defines "context"
There is context...
Please look up what context means. We need to use the English definition of context as it is not defined in the rules.
By your logic, I can claim that the "context" of my Marines being Ultramarines means they get 409 wounds each and a 1++ feel no pain.
Incorrect. there is nothing in the rules to even suggest this.
Again, context isn't a magical word that suddenly makes your incorrect arguments correct.
There is context,
Let me post the definition since you don't seem to understand what context means.
con·text
noun
the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
So to fully understand the rules we need to know the context.
How do you define proper context? As far as I can see you are inserting your interpretation as to what is the correct context and anyone can do just that and reach an entirely different context thus changing the rule wildly. The rules are clearly written and the FAQs back this. It's stupid writing, but the writing is what it is.
2019/03/05 00:08:56
Subject: Can you use smoke launchers in the opponents shooting phase ?
15000
4000 
