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Made in gb
Been Around the Block





KillerAngel wrote:
 Gomezaddams wrote:
I feel the cost of this has been vastly over estimated looking at comparable 3d printed tanks.

I have a comparable 3d printed tank, in my hand, for 1/20th of the cost, and could buy it from the maker for half with considerably more options.

I also still find your comments around the January 6th Capital Riots deeply troubling, so for the time being, this is an easy pass

Your statements are about as absurd as your judgement. For comparison, the MMF print-on-demand service charges $150USD for the Station Forge's Grimguard not-Leman Russ.

Holy Hel, when did Dakka become Facebook?



Personal insults aren't great But I will address your point

If you want to use that kit as a comparison... there are multiple licensed merchants for it (50 in fact). Here's the cheapest one I could find in five minutes of googling... I'm sure you could find it at a similar cost from a US based merchant given the parity of the pound/dollar at the moment.

Since when did Dakka stop using google?
   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant




Virginia

I'd apologize, but I have a strong opinion of those that disparage others in public, based solely on limited information regarding ones thoughts, opinions, or actions. Your opinion's ability to influence his livelihood is much greater than his opinion's ability to "generate sedition" or whatever buzz word was floating around. So unless you have information that is actionable or articulable (like, say, a grand jury investigation), get off your high horse and keep it to yourself.

Re: your "point," It is common knowledge that Etsy is a good source of printed miniatures, with a wide variance in cost and quality (and sometimes legality). The star sellers (ie the popular ones with high quality) are in the $120 range, with $55 seeming to be a good average across the board for vehicles of this size. A printed vehicle (assuming quality) at the stated price is totally reasonable for a design with this level of provenance and popularity, unlike your (yes I'm going to say it again) absurd notion that it can be had for 1/20 of the price.

   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 NoseGoblin wrote:
Thank you everyone!

I just posted this on the old Kickstater page, and its relevant to Azazelx's comment, so I may as well share it here and ask the same question/feedback. Where and how to launch STL files? As I state in the following I am working my way back through all the old kits.... What do you all think? am I not seeing something I should be doing now? and whats your opinion on the how and where? I can set up a file site direct at DreamForge-games.com but other locations will likely get more traffic.... Thoughts?


I would say either create a Patreon/Tribes/whatever, which will have its own traffic being on established plattforms, but would need you to have new stuff on schedule, or do KS/crowdfunding campaigns for less scheduled content. After that I personally prefer file distribution through any of the current plattforms (MMF, Cults, CG&T, Gumroad...) because that way we as customers don't lose access to the files, so it's quite convenient, but if you do something similar at your own page, it should not be a problem.
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Just to throw in my 2 cents... while I have seen less than $10 resin-printed tanks on etsy, they've been 1/100 tanks upprinted to 28/32mm. Most of the native 28mm models I have seen are generally in the $30-$50 range.

Mark, do you print your model as a 1-piece or in multiple sections, like an actual model kit? I suspect at least the barrel is printed separate from the body, but you may save on resin and print time if you offer a one-piece version of the print.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

I'd love to see some simplified versions of the Leviathans. Perhaps something similar to the old resin 15mm Leviathans?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 Stormonu wrote:
Just to throw in my 2 cents... while I have seen less than $10 resin-printed tanks on etsy, they've been 1/100 tanks upprinted to 28/32mm. Most of the native 28mm models I have seen are generally in the $30-$50 range.

Mark, do you print your model as a 1-piece or in multiple sections, like an actual model kit? I suspect at least the barrel is printed separate from the body, but you may save on resin and print time if you offer a one-piece version of the print.


From his ebay auction...


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



United States

Awesome to hear DreamForge is back! Best of luck Mark you are a creative genius and hope to see those shadowkesh Aliens someday.

Patreon would be a good fit for you and Myminifactory.com

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/16 23:38:13


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Patreon is usually for those with a constant monthly stream of new models. Is that the case here?

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



United States

 warboss wrote:
Patreon is usually for those with a constant monthly stream of new models. Is that the case here?



Im not sure, I was just throwing it out there as an idea to get him up and running again. 3D printing has open up new opportunities and with his ideas I think he could do well.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/02/16 23:54:52


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





KillerAngel wrote:
I'd apologize, but I have a strong opinion of those that disparage others in public, based solely on limited information regarding ones thoughts, opinions, or actions. Your opinion's ability to influence his livelihood is much greater than his opinion's ability to "generate sedition" or whatever buzz word was floating around. So unless you have information that is actionable or articulable (like, say, a grand jury investigation), get off your high horse and keep it to yourself.


As others have said, Mark posted those comments openly and publicly. He's fully entitled to those opinions, and to express them. I never said that he couldn't or shouldn't - but as a customer, I find those comments personally difficult and personally I would want to know if creator X had said Y about topic Z. There are other creators I no longer/won't support because of views expressed, and I think personally that an informed choice is a better choice.

Essentially, with any view like this - you can't have it both ways. You can't say 'there's nothing wrong with these views' and 'telling people these are his views affects his business so don't do it'.

I didn't disparage Mark - I certainly didn't insult him. I explained my position, why I'd come to that, and the factors at play. Mark responded that he understands that so... that's it.


KillerAngel wrote:
Re: your "point," It is common knowledge that Etsy is a good source of printed miniatures, with a wide variance in cost and quality (and sometimes legality). The star sellers (ie the popular ones with high quality) are in the $120 range, with $55 seeming to be a good average across the board for vehicles of this size. A printed vehicle (assuming quality) at the stated price is totally reasonable for a design with this level of provenance and popularity, unlike your (yes I'm going to say it again) absurd notion that it can be had for 1/20 of the price.


I'll repost my comments as it wasn't too clear (my bad, apologies), and break it down a bit.

"I have a comparable 3d printed tank, in my hand, for 1/20th of the cost" - Here I'm referring to a kit I printed myself. I'm not asking you to believe me here - Chitubox is free software, and will do the various calculations if you put in resin cost, and then it's just working out your electricity costs, factoring in some disposables etc. I did mine for a fiver - given how UK electricity prices have surged since I printed it, maybe £7.50? Max. Again, don't take my word for it; go check.

"and could buy it from the maker for half with considerably more options". - Half of what Marks charging - around £40, which we've proven is a viable cost using your example. I would also note here that Stationforge have avoided working with one of the major 3d printing merchants based on overcharging... at a cost not too much higher than what Mark is charging.

Its also not to kick in Mark either - his last post on anything Dreamforge related was 2 and a half years ago, and given his other posts in this thread I think Mark might not understand how things have changed in terms of home printing (which I imagine, is where he's printing). The market has fundamentally changed, and for this sort of set up... probably not in a way that helps the longevity of the product. Speaking as a fan of the art, I hope I'm wrong - but I still won't be a customer regardless.



If you want to carry on this discussion, my DMs are open, but I'll avoid posting here as I feel my points been pretty firmly made and we'd just be going around in circles.
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Gomezaddams wrote:

"I have a comparable 3d printed tank, in my hand, for 1/20th of the cost" - Here I'm referring to a kit I printed myself. I'm not asking you to believe me here - Chitubox is free software, and will do the various calculations if you put in resin cost, and then it's just working out your electricity costs, factoring in some disposables etc. I did mine for a fiver - given how UK electricity prices have surged since I printed it, maybe £7.50? Max. Again, don't take my word for it; go check.

Thing is, the price you can print something for yourself is not a fair gauge for the retail price of a physical product. A business can't set their prices solely to cover the material and electricity used. They also have to cover their development costs and keep the lights on. Material cost is often a fair way away from being the most significant factor in pricing.

I mean, I can also make a cup of coffee at home for a heck of a lot less than I can buy one from a cafe. That doesn't make the cafe's prices unreasonable, since in no small part what I'm paying for is someone else to make the coffee for me.

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

The treatment of Mark Mondragon in this thread is absolutely shameful, and makes me embarrassed to be a part of this community. If I could give you a piece of advice, Mark - do not acknowledge or apologize to any one of these people, as those participating in this (let's call it what it is - straight up cancel culture) will never - ever - be satisfied. Also, the amount of engagement they will suck away from you giving elsewhere, compared to the amount of support they will actually give to you without simultaneously undercutting you, will be infinitesimal! You can see this exact thing happening here, and already, this was not worth your time.

To those who support Mark, don't be afraid of these internet / cancel culture bullies!!! The time when no one would push back on this shameful, cowardly behavior is past.

This is not at all about the (absolutely amazing!) Dakka site, or mods, or owners (hopefully that goes without saying!!) but rather the very obvious posters attacking Mark’s character above, with something they sat on for years waiting for your next release. They know who they are, and they know Exactly what they are doing. Don't give it one more thought, let alone response, Mark - it's just not worth it.

I also dearly hope my post is allowed to stand supporting you, since theirs were attacking you - that's at least fair. I promise not to continue - but a community response to this despicable behavior by our community was warranted.

If you want to engage with hobbyists on your upcoming ideas, I would recommend doing so on dedicated facebook groups or similar venues, rather than dealing with the above here (again, nothing at all against the site!! Just this behavior). As others have said, I also think that a Patreon or the like could be a great fit for you, and so many of us would love to support you in it!

I look forward to continuing to follow your incredible work! I still remember fielding a full army of your (resin!) mechs for an AdeptiCon Dreadnaught army, along with Alpharius and a few others from Dakka (Dakka Detachment 3!) and taking the Best Combined Team appearance / theme award. Everyone's jaws were absolutely dropping at your models (unfortunately not my paint jobs lol). You are amazing... keep it up!!!

Edit: The receipts! Over 10 years ago now… time flies!

Spoiler:





This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/02/17 04:00:33


 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Hammerer





I would like to ditto RiTides.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

The dude used his Official Store Site to support an anti-democratic coup attempt, a traumatic event for many Americans. Pretending it was nothing but a harmless difference of opinion is embarrassing. Pretending the guy who put it on his company FB site (rather than keeping it personal) wasn’t the one who made his company political is embarrassing. Some of the people giving cover to this are the same who complain about GW getting political for putting out a statement on inclusivity. The hypocrisy is embarrassing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/17 21:03:22


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Thanks, Scrabb! I am sure many, many feel the same way, and maybe this will give them the courage to stand up to those participating in this - there's no other way to say it - cowardly cancel culture.

Bob, your post illustrates what I said just perfectly! It will never, ever be enough for you. So, why engage with you at all? Someone who is, in the end, a bad faith actor. Not interested in the minis, not interested in Mark or his beliefs even, just out for blood. It will never be enough. So, don't bother!

Mark, you deserve better - and you'll get it! You can see the obvious disconnect between the posts here, and your tank selling out immediately and people signing up for the wait list. There's obviously one of these things that's worth focusing on, and one that should go straight into the garbage bin without a second thought.

I look forward to seeing your modeling work and developments... wherever you post them! I can't blame you if it's not here, and again, I'm embarrassed to be a part of a community that treats its small creators like you have been in this thread, even if it's an (unfortunately absurdly vocal) minority of us who would act this way
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




RiTides, where do you draw the line? If an open Nazi or KKK member shows up here to sell his miniatures are we expected to just pretend that none of that stuff exists and only talk about the product? Will you whine about "cancel culture" if people say nah, we'd rather not buy stuff from the Nazi?

(And let's be honest here, "cancel culture" only ever comes up when it's people on your side of the political spectrum facing even the mildest of consequences for their actions. So spare us the nonsense about "bad faith actors".)
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Keep it civil, folks.

Someone expressing an opinion on the actions of a business is not 'cancel culture'... it's an opinion. Let's leave that tangent at the gate, please.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The dude used his Official Store Site to support an anti-democratic coup attempt that resulted in dead police officers, a traumatic event for many Americans. Pretending it was nothing but a harmless difference of opinion is embarrassing. Pretending the guy who put it on his company FB site (rather than keeping it personal) wasn’t the one who made his company political is embarrassing. Some of the people giving cover to this are the same who complain about GW getting political for putting out a statement on inclusivity. The hypocrisy is embarrassing.


I checked his store site and see none of this. If he deleted it what more does he need to do? What EXACTLY did he even say?

Mark's been contributing to the hobby community for 20ish years.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

So basically a bunch of people are blasting Mark because he's a conservative? Because he dares to disagree with the liberal news media's (and the current administration's) version of certain events (coup attempt, indeed!)? There's a big difference between that and actively supporting hate groups like the KKK or Nazis, and any comparison of Mark and those groups is downright disgusting.

I'm actually half tempted to jump on that waiting list for one of those tanks now, even though i don't really have much use for one. Anybody who can get these haters' panties in this much of a twist has gotta be worth me supporting!

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
cainex1 wrote:
Ignoring the people who want to hate on you because you have a diversity of opinion, I am so glad to see you putting stuff out again! The StuG looks very cool and I look forward to seeing more goodies in the Dreamforge name. You always did some of the coolest non-40k titans


It wasn’t his opinion. It was that he used his Dreamforge store page rather than his personal page to shout it. And when customers replied, he tripled down and got louder. Then deleted everything and still shifts blame to the customers for “not understanding”.

If he hadn’t used Dreamforce’s customer-facing site, his opinion wouldn’t be so linked to Dreamforge.

Meh, I think it's fine.. but I'm one of those gosh-darn free speech absolutists.

Anyway, I am super keen to see him the price to a friendlier level. As much as I love the designs and general aesthetic, it seems a little too costly (at least for me)
But Mark, do make more stuff for those titans!

Come with me if you want to live.
Wait, what?
---------------
Killed all those Tryands for ya!
Huh?
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Thanks to the above posters, Scrabb, bbb, ZergSmasher, and cainex, for posting pushing back on this!

It is notable that it only took two replies to mine (both are above insaniak's mod note which I will, of course, abide by) for the discussion to arrive at Godwin's Law. Those two replies speak for themselves and demonstrate what I was saying much better than I ever could have. To abide by insaniak's mod note, I'll leave it at that.

All the best to you, Mark!

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2023/02/17 12:29:34


 
   
Made in gb
Using Object Source Lighting







Opinions are personal and its anyone choice to post publicly where they want... The moment you do that though you open a door to refutation and other people opinions.
If you really stand for free of speech you need to understand both are fair play.

   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






 bbb wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The dude used his Official Store Site to support an anti-democratic coup attempt that resulted in dead police officers, a traumatic event for many Americans. Pretending it was nothing but a harmless difference of opinion is embarrassing. Pretending the guy who put it on his company FB site (rather than keeping it personal) wasn’t the one who made his company political is embarrassing. Some of the people giving cover to this are the same who complain about GW getting political for putting out a statement on inclusivity. The hypocrisy is embarrassing.


I checked his store site and see none of this. If he deleted it what more does he need to do? What EXACTLY did he even say?

Mark's been contributing to the hobby community for 20ish years.


It was in the old Wargames Atlantic thread, or at least some of what he posted.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1260/774878.page#11029010

Basically was said right after the 6 January storming of congress in the US by people chanting that exact same slogan.

Here is their response from the same thread:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1290/774878.page#11029481

Basically arguing that shouting the slogan was about snubbing facebook for banning people.

If there are more steps in this situation I am unaware of it. I know it turned me personally off of any future purchases from them.
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

I have pruned out the off topic discussion once again from this thread.

It seems there is still sore confusion about discussion of politics on Dakka. The politics ban on OT was never intended to stop actual, relevant miniatures related discussion, just discussion of politics. If a business makes a political statement in a public forum, that's going to shape people's perception of that business. Expressing an opinion of the business as a result of that statement is therefore on topic. Debating the politics behind the statement, however, is not.

And yes, that's a fine line, but it's one that is intended to allow for relevant discussion while avoiding everything going too far off the rails.

Please keep it on topic moving forwards.





 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



United States

I do hope mark comes with stats for the SHADOKESH. The lore is awesome. Hopefully he creates more factions or armies, at least 4 total, as I am eager to hear about this war-torn world.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

I anxiously await more product to hit the front lines in the vein of the FlugStug.

@NoseGoblin

If you don't mind me asking, what's your current production set up like? Meaning number and types/sized of machines? I'm curious if you can get some more economies of scale together after the profits from first sales comes through. Obviously if you went off of ebay then you could save 10%+ that goes directly to you instead.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Stormblade



SpaceCoast

Tank looks cool but I'd need a current project it fit to buy. Have to echo what someone else said about how it would be cool to hear more about the Shadowkesh. And I agree with RiTides.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






]@NoseGoblin

If you don't mind me asking, what's your current production set up like? Meaning number and types/sized of machines? I'm curious if you can get some more economies of scale together after the profits from first sales comes through. Obviously if you went off of ebay then you could save 10%+ that goes directly to you instead.




Currently a single machine, I will add more 1+ in a couple of weeks... I just need to get a feel for the sales over time and if it warrants the addition(s) Ultimatly I am working towards an .stl release so I need to weigh that in as well.
Once I have enough files to make sense I can go Patreon or other to provide a subscription service and continue to release files.

With the cost of materials, shipping etc. it only makes sense these days. but, not everyone has a 3d printer, so I would still offer printed kits if desired. Moving away from ebay can happen pretty quick, but they provide dropship service and VAT payment to those in other countries, so its a nice value for those customers. I can move everything to my current website, which I will at some point, I'm just trying to find a drop-in file server that will allow customers to come back at any point and re-download the files or updates to those files. It needs to integrate with Shopify, as I like that hosting service.

As far as whats next? EVERYTHING! anything I have made that is not being produced by WGA, a bunch of things that were impracticable to do in plastic (that I will likely not print myself but will go to .stl) and as many things/kits/extras that I can come up with or that my customers ask for. Working in this format is ultimately freeing for the designer as direction of pull is no longer a consideration, and being able to combine detailed components into a single object is something that cannot be done in hard tooled plastic. There will be questions of why did you not do this sooner? IMO printers did not provide the level of detail and the scale of the detail that made it make sense, at least for what I had produced already. They do now... and the selection of resins, resin additives and options at a more reasonable price has also arrived at a point is starts making sense. not just for me but for anyone that wants to run a printer.

This is a peek and a tracked StuG, very much a WIP with me defining shapes before detailing or possibly complete rebuild of a component (like the siege gun, wich currently is just an enlarge StuG gun)



Here you see the tracks, without a front tread cover and the drive wheel rather oddly positioned in the upper rear of the hull.



Here is a rough-in for slab side armor



Here is a rough-in for shaped side armor



Here is a rough-in for a siege tank with place holder main siege gun and a rough shaped plow with the support struts sticking through until I am ready to make things fit as I want them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jerram wrote:
Tank looks cool but I'd need a current project it fit to buy. Have to echo what someone else said about how it would be cool to hear more about the Shadowkesh. And I agree with RiTides.


Yep agreed... they are high on my list, including vehicles and walkers.... I think they have waited long enough.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2023/02/17 22:55:55


Any resemblance of this post to written English is purely coincidental.


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 NoseGoblin wrote:
Currently a single machine, I will add more 1+ in a couple of weeks... I just need to get a feel for the sales over time and if it warrants the addition(s) Ultimatly I am working towards an .stl release so I need to weigh that in as well.
Once I have enough files to make sense I can go Patreon or other to provide a subscription service and continue to release files.


Great to hear about the STLs but definitely do multiple physical model sales first. I was mainly asking about the machines as I hoped you would be able to print off the entire model on one plate for ease of manufacture and with multiple models do multiple slightly staggered simultaneous runs (to clean and clip the printed parts). You likely already know this but lots of 3d modelling companies have commercial tiers that allow others to print the figs for you (as long as they keep their more expensive tier active). You obviously lose out on the direct sales but if you're going to patreon then it might be worth looking into depending on your situation and how much manufacturing you want to do on your own. I'd imagine that printing out dozens of flugstugs already sold will be time consuming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The more traditional non-flying models look great btw. Not to bring up another company but did Dust ever do something with the stug chassis? I don't recall them doing it though their soviet faction did have ISU-152 and IS-3 variants.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/17 22:58:13


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



United States

If you are not continuing with Eisenkern Panzerjager and Eisenkern Stormtroopers, will these go to WGA in the future? Will the vehicle operaters be the same troop type or are you creating new troops for these vehicles? I guess I am wondering if they are the same army just two different IP owners.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
did you say WALKERS!?!? yes, please!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/17 23:03:22


 
   
 
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