Fantasy 8th Edition Rumor

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**ImperialTard**

bhsman wrote:
ImperialTard wrote:SPECULATION: Warhammer trailer video was totally pointless and a huge let-down.

AFFIRMATION: This post was totally pointless and a huge let-down.

Honestly, it's an entirely new edition for a game, so something like changing rules probably wouldn't translate well into a visual medium, so it's not surprising that it's a letdown. Wait a month for stuff to leak.

They could have shown one race's new models. Everyone knew 8th Edition was coming anyway.

**bhsman**

ImperialTard wrote:They could have shown one race's new models. Everyone knew 8th Edition was coming anyway.

Does a new edition of rules usually accompany releasing new models, though? I could understand the starter set being kept out of the video (as far as we know) in order to frontload hype, but I don't remember 5th getting a new wave of models for 40k. Though I could easily be proven wrong on that.

**Ahtman**

bhsman wrote:
ImperialTard wrote:They could have shown one race's new models. Everyone knew 8th Edition was coming anyway.

Does a new edition of rules usually accompany releasing new models, though?

Usually you are going to get some new sculpts or some re-sculpts with a new edition.

**JohnHwangDD**

Hjoey75 wrote:We all know Fantasy is already better then 40k because it is not ok everyone move 6 inches.

Fire gun with no - because they can move in shoot perfect accuracy as if standing still.

While combat is who has better troops because people do not get scared when out number 40 to 1 but as long as I kill a guy you take ld test.40k is so bad that why I dont like playing it as much it is babys first tabletop.Why I play Fantasy because it so much more with every thing.

Fleet/Run are +d6", Jump Infantry is 12" move, Bikes up to 24", Slow may be further limited... Riiight...

Maybe people are always ducking & moving, rather than standing still.

What? Lern 2 rite please!

**Mick A**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Hjoey75 wrote:We all know Fantasy is already better then 40k because it is not ok everyone move 6 inches.

Fire gun with no - because they can move in shoot perfect accuracy as if standing still.

While combat is who has better troops because people do not get scared when out number 40 to 1 but as long as I kill a guy you take ld test.40k is so bad that why I dont like playing it as much it is babys first tabletop.Why I play Fantasy because it so much more with every thing.

Fleet/Run are +d6", Jump Infantry is 12" move, Bikes up to 24", Slow may be further limited... Riiight...

Maybe people are always ducking & moving, rather than standing still.

What? Lern 2 rite please!

If you dislike 40k so much why are you on a forum that is more 40k orientated?

Mick

**ShivanAngel**

Mick A wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Hjoey75 wrote:We all know Fantasy is already better then 40k because it is not ok everyone move 6 inches.

Fire gun with no - because they can move in shoot perfect accuracy as if standing still.

While combat is who has better troops because people do not get scared when out number 40 to 1 but as long as I kill a guy you take ld test.40k is so bad that why I dont like playing it as much it is babys first tabletop.Why I play Fantasy because it so much more with every thing.

Fleet/Run are +d6", Jump Infantry is 12" move, Bikes up to 24", Slow may be further limited... Riiight...

Maybe people are always ducking & moving, rather than standing still.

What? Lern 2 rite please!

If you dislike 40k so much why are you on a forum that is more 40k orientated?

Mick

Probably because despite that it gets a lot of fantasy traffic. (and of all the boards i have found, the most fantasy traffic)

**bhsman**

ShivanAngel wrote:Probably because despite that it gets a lot of fantasy traffic. (and of all the boards i have found, the most fantasy traffic)

To be...fair to John, you are asking this in a thread about an upcoming edition of Fantasy, which does have a section on this site. That's still no reason to exclude him from posting here even if this was a 40k-only website.

**Kirasu**

Hjoey75 wrote:
We all know Fantasy is already better then 40k because it is not ok everyone move 6 inches.

Fire gun with no - because they can move in shoot perfect accuracy as if standing still.

While combat is who has better troops because people do not get scared when out number 40 to 1 but as long as I kill a guy you take ld test.40k is so bad that why I dont like playing it as much it is babys first tabletop.Why I play Fantasy because it so much more with every thing.

Because lining up and marching towards each other in the same fashion for FIFTEEN years adds lots of variety right? Both games have their advantages and disadvantages. However, the big difference seems to be that quite a bit of people play WFB to feel high and mighty over "inferior" 40kers..

Fantasy has serious flaws.. much more so than 40k.. Hence why GW needed to drastically alter the rules

**ShivanAngel**

Kirasu wrote:
Hjoey75 wrote:
We all know Fantasy is already better then 40k because it is not ok everyone move 6 inches.

Fire gun with no - because they can move in shoot perfect accuracy as if standing still.

While combat is who has better troops because people do not get scared when out number 40 to 1 but as long as I kill a guy you take ld test.40k is so bad that why I dont like playing it as much it is babys first tabletop.Why I play Fantasy because it so much more with every thing.

Because lining up and marching towards each other in the same fashion for FIFTEEN years adds lots of variety right? Both games have their advantages and disadvantages. However, the big difference seems to be that quite a bit of people play WFB to feel high and mighty over "inferior" 40kers..

Fantasy has serious flaws.. much more so than 40k.. Hence why GW needed to drastically alter the rules

uhhhh thats how battles were fought back then...

**Kirasu**

I had a longer response but I think this will suffice

.. back when exactly? (If youre making some bizarre reference to human history I recommend looking at the game you're playing and then re-thinking such a statement)

**ShivanAngel**

Kirasu wrote:I had a longer response but I think this will suffice

.. back when exactly? (If youre making some bizarre reference to human history I recommend looking at the game you're playing and then re-thinking such a statement)

I was comparing it to human history when similar battle were fought.

Infantry, calvary, arrows, and all that its not much different. Sure there are races that dont exist and magic items and what not. However when battle were fought in a similar fassion a good portion was marching into position to get into range and what not. So yes there is a similarity.

**Flashman**

Your meeting engagement type battles were fought like that, but there were plenty of battles fought on the hop normally with one side being taken by surprise. Battle of Balaklava (relatively modern, but still fought with infantry and cavalry) is an excellent example, with the Russians advancing in the early hours forcing the British Cavalry to scramble into poor defensive positions, whilst one of British infantry commanders (take a bow, Cathcart) couldn't even bothered to get out of bed.

**ShivanAngel**

Flashman wrote:Your meeting engagement type battles were fought like that, but there were plenty of battles fought on the hop normally with one side being taken by surprise. Battle of Balaklava (relatively modern, but still fought with infantry and cavalry) is an excellent example, with the Russians advancing in the early hours forcing the British Cavalry to scramble into poor defensive positions, whilst one of British infantry commanders (take a bow, Cathcart) couldn't even bothered to get out of bed).

This is true, but I would consider these more along the lines of special scenario battles.

**juraigamer**

Well regardless of whats happening to the rules, my 3 friends and myself have already chosen to start fantasy upon this next edition. Easier to learn the new ruleset than learn the older one then switch to the newer one.

We play 40k, and enjoy it. Some posters have said it's dumbed down by comparison, but I assure you we don't just go "Spaceee marines chearG!" When we play.

I'm just reading what everyone is saying about how these new changes will break the game, cause lost fanbase, ect ect. This is just speculation, we don't know that for a fact. In fact, these changes may give fantasy a huge boost in popularity, something it could use considering how well 40k has been doing.

**Ixquic**

If this turns into 40k in medieval times it would be really sad, despite how happy it would make 40k players.

A lot of 40k's popularity is simply due to Space Marine's universal appeal so I really don't think making the rules similar would get that much crossover. Having said that I think these changes are more WotRish than 40kish (which means no one would be happy except the 13 people playing that ruleset).

**JohnHwangDD**

juraigamer wrote:these changes may give fantasy a huge boost in popularity, something it could use considering how well 40k has been doing.

I believe that is GW's intent with Fantasy 8, as was their intent with WotR - to boost other lines to 40k-like popularity, sales, and profitability.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

It is not a question of one system being superior to another.

I didn't start playing WHFB so's I could swan around saying I am superior to 40K players.
I started, presumably like a lot of others, because the genre is appealing.
Goblins, elves and dwarves occupied a greater place in my imagination along with legend and myth, rather than a future based subject.

There is a problem for me if the two systems become conflated. The historical aspect of warfare is important here imho.
Mediaeval and Renassaince armies were dominated by rank and file, as they were in classical times. Pretty much as they were until the advent of modern warfare which seems to be the basis for 40K. They are different beasts and should have distinct identities. I hope that the new rulebook honours that. To base a Rank and File system on Modern Warfare is not a good idea. It may attract new players but for all the wrong reasons.

If WHFB has serious flaws, it does not follow that to fix the system it should become a like 40K.
There must be corrections that can be made within a fantasy Rank and File/Magic setting.

**JohnHwangDD**

As long as Fantasy sticks with RnF as the basis of the game and combat, it'll be different from 40k.

Streamlining saves and tweaking Magic doesn't make Fantasy into 40k.

**Infreak**

Dispite all the rumored changes, which sounds to be almost everything, I'm still not put off from 8th. A judgement can't really be made based on rumors, most of which could be way out of context to all the other changes being made. I'm just going to pick up a copy, start playing some games and see how it all works.

The only real concern I have is that in the midst of a massive rule over-haul, something small was over looked, and leaves a ruleset which is far too easily exploitable.

Ultimatly, I think why a lot of people are talking like 8th is the end of the world is simply because they learned all the quirks and loopholes in the current system and don't want to have to bother learning/finding them in the next edition. Grumpy Old Man Syndrome if you will. Change = Bad.

**ShivanAngel**

I do like the shoot in two ranks idea. I always thought that a unit should be able to give up their movement in order to fire in 2 ranks. The loss of movement is because the front rank is kneeling down to allow the second rank to shoot over them.

I spread out my archers in one long line of 10 at the moment and hardly move them, a 5x2 block not only looks better, but allows for more maneuvering.

**juraigamer**

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Streamlining saves and tweaking Magic doesn't make Fantasy into 40k.

Here we go, exactly what I meant to say. Faster games means more fun overall.

RnF is something that I really like, seeing how I've always loved the total war series of games.

Battles are unpredictable, which is why i actually like the random charge distance idea. A degree of randomness makes the game less certain, just like any battle.

**Karon**

I'll admit, this is a bit of a strong reaction due to the new rules. However, I do not like them. If you look in this thread, lots of people do not like them. Many of the people who do like it are giving the excuse either "At least it's not WotR", or "It's more like WH40K". If you notice, most of the people in the second group admit they rarely play WHFB because they like 40K more, some even saying they don't play WHFB because it's too different from 40K. Those who play WHFB because they like it being different from 40K are not amused, and these rumors turning out to be true is a valid reason for such a group to be peeved.

----------

Couldn't agree more, part of the reason I joined fantasy is because it was so different from 40k (which I find terribly boring)

I don't want Warhammer: 40,000, but with Magic!

Honestly, I want fantasy to be fantasy, I don't want it to be simplified, I don't want things to be streamlined, that makes the game boring and too simple.

I'm not impressed by these rumor's at all. I completely agree with Jin once again, who basically read my mind.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

A minor point: There would be a difference between bows/crossbows and guns. The former would not have to have a kneeling front rank. Would be impossible with a longbow anyways

Battles are unpredictable, and that randomness is already written into the game's engine. Still unconvinced by the random charging. It may be that the degree is the problem. A potential difference of 5" is a relatively high percentage of distance to be unsure of. It still seems too random.
And slow down young Padawan! don't be in such a hurry

**ShivanAngel**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:A minor point: There would be a difference between bows/crossbows and guns. The former would not have to have a kneeling front rank. Would be impossible with a longbow anyways

Battles are unpredictable, and that randomness is already written into the game's engine. Still unconvinced by the random charging. It may be that the degree is the problem. A potential difference of 5" is a relatively high percentage of distance to be unsure of. It still seems too random.
And slow down young Padawan! don't be in such a hurry

This is exactly why i dont like random charges. The game is already has some very random aspects, flee distance and pursue distance. Adding another degree of randomness changes the game more from good strategy to woot lucky dice.

**JohnHwangDD**

To be honest, the variable charge is a good thing to have for WFB - uneven ground, orders, having to stay in ranks - it makes more sense for WFB.

**bd1085**

3000 pts for tournaments? That's gonna put a dent in everyone's wallet.

Personally I like these changes and look forward to fighting smaller battles like 1500 or 2000.

**Grimstonefire**

Whoever it was saying 30". My understanding is that it is basic movment +2D6" for anything with M7 or more.

Movement +D6" for anything M6 or less.

I've done some editing on the sticky again today. Because I know lots of you guys can't read it at work I will start a new thread here and copy it over.

Note as well there is an interesting rumour I found today. It could potentially mean this (if I understood it correctly):

Put simply, ther rumour is for some sort of 'column' bonus for each model past 5 wide (up to +4).

**Leggy**

Is anyone else thinking it may be worthwhile running missile troops 10x2? So far it seems you'll get benefits for huge frontage, plus both ranks can fire. I can't yet see why this wont be optimum size (although we're still waiting on rules, obviously)

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

Hi John

Have considered that aspect but shouldn't the terrain take care of that factor so there is no need for a d6?

I agree with Shivan but if there has to be a roll then d3 would be preferable, as a maximum shortfall of 3" on the charge could stll make a difference, but chances of a catastrophic failure would be lessened. It seems more realistic. To fall short of a charge by 5" is the stuff of Keystone Cops.

Just because the figures are in movement trays shoulder to shoulder, would have thought that in the charge the formation of most units would be looser.

**Kroothawk**

Grimstonefire found these rumours today, including a contents list of the starter set (which looks a bit unfair for Skaven

):

A collection of rumours I have found in my trawling of the web. Some of these may or may not have been discredited already, but if there is something here worth adding to the sticky can someone please pm me or reply here.

July 6, GW puts up the pdf of erratas for all armies

There will be a section in the book dealing with questions that arise in a game (now we see why it's going to be 528 pages! lol).

Bonuses and hazards for terrain (such as rolling the dice to see how many people don’t make it out of the wood)

£40 for book... The actual rumour was 50 euro, but I figured £40 was better than £43.

Battle standard bearer worth more to capture.

Fear +1 to Combat resolution
Terror +2 to combat resolution

Rank bonuses remain at up to +3, but can increase by up to 4 for each additional column of troops.

E.g. a unit 7 wide by 4 deep. +3 rank bonus. +1 for the 6th model wide, +1 for 7th model wide.

Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized)

Creatures that cause fear (or terror) will be immune to panic.

Leadership tests against fear are going!?

Edit:

Also

65 euros (£55?)

5 silver helms
15 spearmen/sea guard(?)
Hero on Griffon
mage
10 archers
chariot!?!

Skaven
40 clanrats
2 weapon teams
2 characters
Rat ogre with what translated as a warp cannon??