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So, from the seminar, before INTERWEBWARRIORS! started spouting questions about stuff you wouldn't really expect the Design Studio to know/be able to influence, some questions were raised regarding these one off releases.

Essentially, they are pitched by the members of the Design Studio. You come up with a cool idea, and make your case for it. If it's as cool to others as it is to you, there's a chance it will see light of day.

Single runs mean that they can pretty much guarantee a profit on it, as with everything in one box, you work out how much it cost to get it to that point, divvy up the price per unit, and whack your profit margin on top. Biggedy biggedy bong, more or less guaranteed success.

I did ask how they settle on it, and Jes seemed rather keen on my suggestion of a Pit Fight to decide which is the next project.

plus they are pimping it hard, the local GW store here will usually mention stuff once and leave it be, but over the weekend every other sentence was "dreadfleet".

All the more reason I wish to see it fail.

You know, a pit fighting game would be a good next project. Bonus points if the miniatures were made to look like the design team.

Ravenous D wrote:All the more reason I wish to see it fail.

I don't think it can fail. They produced a game in such limited numbers that it is likely to sell out. Great success!

Ravenous D wrote:plus they are pimping it hard, the local GW store here will usually mention stuff once and leave it be, but over the weekend every other sentence was "dreadfleet".

All the more reason I wish to see it fail.

And all because it doesn't interest you? Wow, that's a pretty strong reaction...

One can hope.

Considering I bought space hulk 3 months after its release I am expecting to Dreadfleet still on shelves 6 months from now, and thats even considering it probably has half(max) the production run of space hulk.

Mr Mystery wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:plus they are pimping it hard, the local GW store here will usually mention stuff once and leave it be, but over the weekend every other sentence was "dreadfleet".

All the more reason I wish to see it fail.

And all because it doesn't interest you? Wow, that's a pretty strong reaction...

Not because it doesnt interest me, I already own an Eldar fleet for BFG that I havent used in ages, thus I have no need for it. Mostly just have an issue that it could have been anything else more important that needs updating, so watching it fail would send a message.

So I stick with my saying of "dont support stupid *crap* or you just get more stupid *crap*".

65,000 copies world wide.... So about 80%ish of Space Hulk, if the numbers bandied about are to be believed.

I have to say dude, I really don't get your vitriol against Dreadfleet. Sure, nobody is expecting/demanding you be enthused about it, but every time I see you post, it's as if it's existence is some kind of calculated insult against you.

Mr Mystery wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:plus they are pimping it hard, the local GW store here will usually mention stuff once and leave it be, but over the weekend every other sentence was "dreadfleet".

All the more reason I wish to see it fail.

And all because it doesn't interest you? Wow, that's a pretty strong reaction...

Yeah... I'm not interested in Infinity, but I wish it every success in the world.

htj wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:plus they are pimping it hard, the local GW store here will usually mention stuff once and leave it be, but over the weekend every other sentence was "dreadfleet".

All the more reason I wish to see it fail.

And all because it doesn't interest you? Wow, that's a pretty strong reaction...

Yeah... I'm not interested in Infinity, but I wish it every success in the world.

Ditto for me and PP stuff. I get a bit sick of it being declared the messiah of gaming, sure, but I have no wish to see the company go under, or their games snuff it?

Mr Mystery wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:plus they are pimping it hard, the local GW store here will usually mention stuff once and leave it be, but over the weekend every other sentence was "dreadfleet".

All the more reason I wish to see it fail.

And all because it doesn't interest you? Wow, that's a pretty strong reaction...

Seriously. Dreadfleet doing well means we have a better chance of seeing other specialist games or new boardgames.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ravenous D wrote:

Norsehawk wrote:no. A one off, game like this doesn't interest me. It looks like it has a whopping 1 ship per force in there, and as such, has limited gameplay. The fact that it is a fire and forget release means that there will be no future releases or expansions to the game. Which means that it's pretty much dead on release.

Huh I didnt even think of that, with only one ship per faction that means there is probably one faction thats broken that everyone will want to use, thus making the game even less interesting over a span of time.

You don't play a faction, you play one entire side. It's a two player game. Each side has a fleet of ships with various strengths and weaknesses.

Mr Mystery wrote:65,000 copies world wide.... So about 80%ish of Space Hulk, if the numbers bandied about are to be believed.

I have to say dude, I really don't get your vitriol against Dreadfleet. Sure, nobody is expecting/demanding you be enthused about it, but every time I see you post, it's as if it's existence is some kind of calculated insult against you.

Maybe it is!

Nah, I just dont like having my time wasted, and I see it as a waste of GWs time when there is so many other cooler and more sellable things that they could have done.

With space hulk you could at least use the models in 40k and it was actually a pretty sweet deal, 10 termies, 1 termiantor librarian, 22 genestealers and a broodlord for $100? Hellz yeah thats a great idea! But dreadfleet... its got nothing. I mean does any here really truely believe it'll still be played in a month from now?

Ravenous D wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:65,000 copies world wide.... So about 80%ish of Space Hulk, if the numbers bandied about are to be believed.

I have to say dude, I really don't get your vitriol against Dreadfleet. Sure, nobody is expecting/demanding you be enthused about it, but every time I see you post, it's as if it's existence is some kind of calculated insult against you.

Maybe it is!

Nah, I just dont like having my time wasted, and I see it as a waste of GWs time when there is so many other cooler and more sellable things that they could have done.

With space hulk you could at least use the models in 40k and it was actually a pretty sweet deal, 10 termies, 1 termiantor librarian, 22 genestealers and a broodlord for $100? Hellz yeah thats a great idea! But dreadfleet... its got nothing. I mean does any here really truely believe it'll still be played in a month from now?

Of course it will... I've not spent £70.00 based on ooohshinyitis. It will make it's money back, it will sell out Ergo, it is by definition NOT a waste of time and resources.

And it's not wasting your time. You don't want to buy it, that's cool. It's not as if all other GW and indeed Wargaming products in general are suddenly not available whilst Dreadfleet is around

I've not spent £70.00 based on ooohshinyitis

I have, I'm afraid to say. I just wanted the ships. But I've always been more of a collector than a gamer.

Eh... Pirates of the Warhammer isn't going to fail.. limited run = game sells out = surefire way to bring in cash and make the shareholders happy in the end.

The game ain't for me, and I hate that it's limited, but I do hope it sells out and does so quickly, so GW will be inclined to do other side projects. Who knows, it could lead to Insert_Specialist_Game_Here coming back in full force one day...

I really can't get on board with the idea that if I buy Dreadfleet it may encourage them to make a game I really want.

Seems silly to me. Buy something that is "Limited" in the hopes that someday, just maybe, they make something else I do want.
How does that correlate?
If it sells out, it should be on its own merits, not because of future hopes.

I am not buying it because it does not hold enough value to me as a game.
It may not have a delineated board, but it is effectively a boardgame.
I judge it on that.
With boardgames like Descent, D&D Castle Ravenloft, Risk, etc, I open it, pull off some packaging, punch out card, and its playable in an hour or 2.
Dreadfleet is $115+tax. Then approx. 6-20 hours of assembly to get something on the table. Add in some priming time to differentiate the 2 fleets.
I am using my recent assembly of some large GW monsters as baseline for assembly time.

Seriously. Dreadfleet doing well means we have a better chance of seeing other specialist games or new boardgames.

I am also wondering if this is such a good thing. Looking at posts of what might be popular atm, MLP Friends in the Grimdark: The Board Game.
Not a direction I would want to see GW take tbh

skrulnik wrote:I really can't get on board with the idea that if I buy Dreadfleet it may encourage them to make a game I really want.

Seems silly to me. Buy something that is "Limited" in the hopes that someday, just maybe, they make something else I do want.
How does that correlate?...

Precisely! I think Ravenous D is right on the money, support stupid crap, get more stupid crap, if a little brutally colorful, lets say.

That's exactly how I feel.

I would have rather seen a Necron codex for example...

or plastic roughriders
or an expansion for Spacehulk
or plastic stuff for EPIC
or pretty much anything for an EXISTING system or game I already have...

Heaven forbid, something that MIGHT show up at my local retailer, not be direct only drivel.

Augustus wrote:

skrulnik wrote:I really can't get on board with the idea that if I buy Dreadfleet it may encourage them to make a game I really want.

Seems silly to me. Buy something that is "Limited" in the hopes that someday, just maybe, they make something else I do want.
How does that correlate?...

Precisely! I think Ravenous D is right on the money, support stupid crap, get more stupid crap, if a little brutally colorful, lets say.

That's exactly how I feel.

I would have rather seen a Necron codex for example...

or plastic roughriders
or an expansion for Spacehulk
or plastic stuff for EPIC
or pretty much anything for an EXISTING system or game I already have...

Heaven forbid, something that MIGHT show up at my local retailer, not be direct only drivel.

I wasn't advocating anyone buy DF just in the hopes GW makes something else. It was in reply to someone hoping the whole thing fails. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But hoping something fails? Fairly silly. Lets all hope the next Space Marine release fails so we can get some Eldar models.

But please, lets get back to complaints that something coming isn't what we we want. Need a bit more scowling, stamping our feet, and holding our breath, to make the daily quota.

Yeah, I'm all for fun new games... but we currently have one 40K army still using a 3rd edition codex, another 3rd edition codex only just made obsolete with a White Dwarf List replacement, and a whole bunch of codexes that are still missing models for various units.

As a result, I can't help wondering if the development time and resources that are going into fun new games couldn't be better spent on existing ranges.

Get your gak sorted, GW, then look at doing new stuff. Don't keep leaving everything else half done because you got distracted by the new hotness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:But please, lets get back to complaints that something coming isn't what we we want. Need a bit more scowling, stamping our feet, and holding our breath, to make the daily quota.

Can we not try to imply that complaints against a product are just people throwing temper tantrums? That never goes anywhere productive.

insaniak wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:But please, lets get back to complaints that something coming isn't what we we want. Need a bit more scowling, stamping our feet, and holding our breath, to make the daily quota.

Can we not try to imply that complaints against a product are just people throwing temper tantrums? That never goes anywhere productive.

Apologies. Every once in a while the constant complaining about things for page after page gets a bit old, and IMHO, does sound quite childish. Are you implying that the complaining is productive? or just that complaing about complaining is unproductive?

mikhaila wrote: Are you implying that the complaining is productive? or just that complaing about complaining is unproductive?

Both.

People will air their opinions. That's what forums are for. The complaints about the complaints just encourage people to complain about the fact that they can't complain without people complaining about them complaining, and before you know it the whole thing is spiraling down the gurgler.

And complaints can encourage change. Sure, I'm not holding my breath... but it's nice to dream that maybe one day, when enough people have complained about it, GW might finally decide to properly support their existing range rather than just constantly updating and creating new holes that sit unfilled for years on end.

insaniak wrote:And complaints can encourage change. Sure, I'm not holding my breath... but it's nice to dream that maybe one day, when enough people have complained about it, GW might finally decide to properly support their existing range rather than just constantly updating and creating new holes that sit unfilled for years on end.

For one thing, GW seems to have listened to the complaints that they only do 3 core game systems and how everything was better back when they had minor projects such as specialist games and board games. Of course, all they get for their trouble is complaints that they should focus on their 3 core systems, not bother with minor projects.

mikhaila wrote:

insaniak wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:But please, lets get back to complaints that something coming isn't what we we want. Need a bit more scowling, stamping our feet, and holding our breath, to make the daily quota.

Can we not try to imply that complaints against a product are just people throwing temper tantrums? That never goes anywhere productive.

Apologies. Every once in a while the constant complaining about things for page after page gets a bit old, and IMHO, does sound quite childish. Are you implying that the complaining is productive? or just that complaing about complaining is unproductive?

Certainly, complaining about the complaining is productive though, so carry on...

lord_blackfang wrote:For one thing, GW seems to have listened to the complaints that they only do 3 core game systems and how everything was better back when they had minor projects such as specialist games and board games. Of course, all they get for their trouble is complaints that they should focus on their 3 core systems, not bother with minor projects.

That's a rather incredible over-simplification of the issue.

I'm not complaining about them working on off-shoot projects. I'm complaining about them working on those projects before finishing what they started. If you're going to add new units to a revised codex, release models for those units before moving on to the next project. If you're going to update your core rules, update all of your now out-of-date codexes before moving on to the next project.

By all means, give us new stuff. But do what you're doing properly. Doing a half-assed job may be the Simpsons way, but it just irks people in the business world.

Ordered from my local game store. My main decision was that it will not be supported. Game companies seem to define "support" as mercilessly butchering a game beyond all recognition. Stand alones rock.

insaniak wrote:Yeah, I'm all for fun new games... but we currently have one 40K army still using a 3rd edition codex, another 3rd edition codex only just made obsolete with a White Dwarf List replacement, and a whole bunch of codexes that are still missing models for various units.

As a result, I can't help wondering if the development time and resources that are going into fun new games couldn't be better spent on existing ranges.

Get your gak sorted, GW, then look at doing new stuff. Don't keep leaving everything else half done because you got distracted by the new hotness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:But please, lets get back to complaints that something coming isn't what we we want. Need a bit more scowling, stamping our feet, and holding our breath, to make the daily quota.

Can we not try to imply that complaints against a product are just people throwing temper tantrums? That never goes anywhere productive.

I think from a business perspective it probably breaks down like this:

Dread Fleet uses X resources and they will print and believe they will sell Y copies. They know if they estimated correctly that Y printed = Y sold they WILL make Z dollars.

If they spread those X resources to a couple of the things above, I'm guessing they believe Y1 and Y2 sold would not have gotten as large a Z.

The limited/one time release gives them predictabilty (less risk) for the Z which aids in planning the next fiscal year. The profit can then be turned to fund redo of codexes/expanding core games/initial development of a new 'one off' project. GW MUST make money to continue to exist. Projects like this give them a Z they can live with, and it is predictable enough they can use it as a basis to plan.

Jake


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, I got a notice from GW my copy shipped yesterday. Hooah!

As others have mentioned, I like the stand alone game aspect. Last GW stufff I bought was a few tyranids a couple of years ago that I use with another rule system (I don't play 40k or Warhamemr) and the recent Space Hulk (because it is a stand alone game).

Jake

Augustus wrote:

skrulnik wrote:I really can't get on board with the idea that if I buy Dreadfleet it may encourage them to make a game I really want.

Seems silly to me. Buy something that is "Limited" in the hopes that someday, just maybe, they make something else I do want.
How does that correlate?...

Precisely! I think Ravenous D is right on the money, support stupid crap, get more stupid crap, if a little brutally colorful, lets say.

That's exactly how I feel.

I would have rather seen a Necron codex for example...

or plastic roughriders
or an expansion for Spacehulk
or plastic stuff for EPIC
or pretty much anything for an EXISTING system or game I already have...

Heaven forbid, something that MIGHT show up at my local retailer, not be direct only drivel.

YEAH! Let's invest inherently limited resource in stuff only a niche of a niche of a niche will buy over something which is deliberaltely printed and priced to ensure a profit! What are they? Monetary monkies? Surely you make more money from the minority than the majority! YEAH! YEAH! SMASH THE STATE WITHOUT PROVISO TO HAVING WAITING IN THE WINGS THE NECESSARY INFRASTRUCTUE! YEAH! YEAH! SMASH! BREAK! FAIIL!

Not sure how true the rumour but someone mentioned GW having cash flow problems.

The amount of plastic in the Dread Fleet box looks plentiful. That is a fair amount of expensive tooling to make the moulds. And all for a limited production run?
Those moulds presumably will sit in storage until the last trump earning GW not one more phennig once the last box has been sold.

Designers, sculptors and games designers including Phil Kelly have spent time on the game that could have been spent on developing something else. Instead they have been paid to work on a one shot product.

On the other hand a quick profit might be made which would outstrip the returns on a Necron update for example.

Personally the game could have been a DE fleet against some other and allowed to be sold on the high street other than GW stores.
A full production run would have made more of tooling costs and potentially allowed the game to sell a tad cheaper.

It would have made the GW brand more widely known and potentially drawn new players into WHFB via IoB

I sense a complete lack of synergy as the strategists would say.

Im kind of optimistic, call me naive but if this game ( that I really don't like) goes well with the shareholders profit balance sheet we may see other games ( that I may like) in the future... some of you say if you buy crap you will get crap and I say I invested on a pearl (spacehulk) and a few years later got a floating turd ( dreadfleet) So yes Im optimistic because if this sells good and fast maybe in a couple year I get something I like... I rather take 50/50 chance than no chance at all if this proves to be a fiasco.

Another positive outcome might be that quick profits allow Messrs. Wells and Kirby to feather their nests more quickly so they can bugger off and retire sooner!

Think I might get Dread Fleet with that thought in mind!