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mikhaila wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:plus they are pimping it hard, the local GW store here will usually mention stuff once and leave it be, but over the weekend every other sentence was "dreadfleet".

All the more reason I wish to see it fail.

And all because it doesn't interest you? Wow, that's a pretty strong reaction...

Seriously. Dreadfleet doing well means we have a better chance of seeing other specialist games or new boardgames.

I agree with you on this point. There is a possibility that if Dreadfleet bombs (although I don't think it will) that GW will say 'OK, our new venture failed, core games, 40k version 3.7 it is then for the next ten years', which I think is absolutely the worst thing the company can do.

Focusing on core games has let other game manufacturers fill the voids left open by them, and let those companies gain market share as a result. If GW sales continue to fall then they need to start making more games like Dreadfleet. Even if it isn't everyone's cup of tea, I'm actually happy that GW is genuinely trying to do something new, to make use of its design talent, rather than just regurgitating the same old material for year after year as it has been doing since their specialist games got canned.

Success of Dreadfleet means it will be more likely that we will get a Blood Bowl anniversary set next year, which I am all for. I think there are masses of young hobbyists who are probably not even aware of that system, which is a dreadful shame.

mikhaila wrote:Seriously. Dreadfleet doing well means we have a better chance of seeing other specialist games or new boardgames.

Mediocrity should not be rewarded.

"Forget if it's bad - buy it anyway so there's a better chance of getting something good later on" is not a good way to make purchasing decisions. Now I'm not making judgements on the quality of Dreadfleet (it may be a fantastic game - who knows?), but 'buy it so they might make more' isn't a compelling argument.

I would like the idea of the design team having pet projects, if I had any faith in the game design skills of the design team. Sadly I fear this one, possibly like Spulk, is driven by a sculptor or artist saying "wouldn't it be cool if..." -- which is fine if you then get a decent game design team in, and playtest the game thoroughly, but GW don't generally do either of those things.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Another positive outcome might be that quick profits allow Messrs. Wells and Kirby to feather their nests more quickly so they can bugger off and retire sooner!

Think I might get Dread Fleet with that thought in mind!

to be honest not even that would make me spend 90 euros on the game...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

mikhaila wrote:Seriously. Dreadfleet doing well means we have a better chance of seeing other specialist games or new boardgames.

Mediocrity should not be rewarded.

"Forget if it's bad - buy it anyway so there's a better chance of getting something good later on" is not a good way to make purchasing decisions. Now I'm not making judgements on the quality of Dreadfleet (it may be a fantastic game - who knows?), but 'buy it so they might make more' isn't a compelling argument.

There's a big difference with me with my money rewarding and buying this game to wishing it to fail. I mean I understand many may like that GW and its games would crash and burn but I just don't share that line of reasoning... The day GW goes totally nuts and stops making anything I like is the day I will not buy a thing from them yet I wish them best of luck on whatever they are doing.
Mind that that day is not that far... I mostly buy plastic and metal minis but since they canned metal and went finecast I'm reduced to plastic kits, they day they make crappy plastic kits its game over for me.

I didn't really saying anything about 'wishing' the game to fail, more about not buying it simply in the hope that its success would spur GW to action on remaking other games.

It's the same line of thinking I take with the Ultramarines movie. I bought it because I wanted to see what it was, and I would say that anyone who wants to buy it should but they should avoid it if they're only buying it in the hope that it is 'successful' and that they'll make more.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I didn't really saying anything about 'wishing' the game to fail, more about not buying it simply in the hope that its success would spur GW to action on remaking other games.

It's the same line of thinking I take with the Ultramarines movie. I bought it because I wanted to see what it was, and I would say that anyone who wants to buy it should but they should avoid it if they're only buying it in the hope that it is 'successful' and that they'll make more.

I know you didn't say specifically that you wished that, I was just continuing the chat of the topic and addressing the overall position of some members... I only used your quote as a conversation starter and was not replying only to you... sorry for not making that clear.

I will never buy something I do not want just to support a hypothetic idea of the future at GW, but I hope there's enough fans of this game that will... I'm really not that invested in GW as I was 10 years ago... I look at things at a very big distance and doesn't make much sense to support something Im not that much involved with... I still like my nids and my gobbos but they are really fading away in the sea of minis from other manufacturers...

I pre-ordered as soon as the announcement was made.

It's not surprising that there are a lot of strongly negative opinions of Dread Fleet when so many of us would love to see new editions of some great games like WQ and Epic. I certainly agree with H.B.M.C. and would never buy something to try to convince GW to release more non-core games.

I bought Dread Fleet because I personally like the look of it & the idea of a complete game in a box fits what I have time for at the moment.

Now, will I regret spending the money once the next 40K army is announced? Possibly, but that's for another thread...

insaniak wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:For one thing, GW seems to have listened to the complaints that they only do 3 core game systems and how everything was better back when they had minor projects such as specialist games and board games. Of course, all they get for their trouble is complaints that they should focus on their 3 core systems, not bother with minor projects.

That's a rather incredible over-simplification of the issue.

I'm not complaining about them working on off-shoot projects. I'm complaining about them working on those projects before finishing what they started. If you're going to add new units to a revised codex, release models for those units before moving on to the next project. If you're going to update your core rules, update all of your now out-of-date codexes before moving on to the next project.

By all means, give us new stuff. But do what you're doing properly. Doing a half-assed job may be the Simpsons way, but it just irks people in the business world.

It wasn't 5 years ago that people complained incessantly how armies get all their models at once when the Codex is released and then nothing for 6+ years until the next Codex. Now it's suddenly wrong to stagger the releases. It doesn't matter what they do, they can't win.

lord_blackfang wrote:

insaniak wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:For one thing, GW seems to have listened to the complaints that they only do 3 core game systems and how everything was better back when they had minor projects such as specialist games and board games. Of course, all they get for their trouble is complaints that they should focus on their 3 core systems, not bother with minor projects.

That's a rather incredible over-simplification of the issue.

I'm not complaining about them working on off-shoot projects. I'm complaining about them working on those projects before finishing what they started. If you're going to add new units to a revised codex, release models for those units before moving on to the next project. If you're going to update your core rules, update all of your now out-of-date codexes before moving on to the next project.

By all means, give us new stuff. But do what you're doing properly. Doing a half-assed job may be the Simpsons way, but it just irks people in the business world.

It wasn't 5 years ago that people complained incessantly how armies get all their models at once when the Codex is released and then nothing for 6+ years until the next Codex. Now it's suddenly wrong to stagger the releases. It doesn't matter what they do, they can't win.

I've been playing GW games for over 15 years now and I haven't seen a single instance of them releasing all the models that are available in a Codex, either at once or stagered...

But keep grasping at straws to make confrontational posts, those are at least mildly entertaining.

H.B.M.C. wrote:"Forget if it's bad - buy it anyway so there's a better chance of getting something good later on" is not a good way to make purchasing decisions. Now I'm not making judgements on the quality of Dreadfleet (it may be a fantastic game - who knows?), but 'buy it so they might make more' isn't a compelling argument.

You can still find Pirates of the Spanish Main in some CCG stores. That'll provide you with just as much fun, will be a hell of a lot cheaper and will take up a lot less space on your shelf. I promise.

I just got the email telling me that my pre-order has been dispatched.
Quite looking forward to it now.

marv335 wrote:I just got the email telling me that my pre-order has been dispatched.
Quite looking forward to it now.

Bad news is it gets delivered according to the game mechanics and depends on the Wind cards, sea monsters etc etc
Just hope it arrives in one piece



if at all!

I'm kind of envious of the whole "opening a new box" experience which I haven't had since Space Hulk now, but that's nowhere near enough of a reason to buy

I genuinely hope that the people who have picked it up enjoy it anyway.

Just to throw in my thoughts as a newbie... I don't know enough about the game to judge it one way or another, but the look of the models and the setting don't interest me, and therefore I'm not really interested.

Flashman wrote:I'm kind of envious of the whole "opening a new box" experience which I haven't had since Space Hulk now, but that's nowhere near enough of a reason to buy

http://www.boardgamegeek.com

You're welcome

lord_blackfang wrote:It wasn't 5 years ago that people complained incessantly how armies get all their models at once when the Codex is released and then nothing for 6+ years until the next Codex.

Yes, you're right... that didn't happen 5 years ago.

But it's also not the only alternative to releasing a codex with units that don't have existing models and then dribbling those models out over the following decade or two (The 3rd edition Ork codex was in print for 8 or 9 years, and still had 8 units with no existing model when it was phased out. Codex: Space Marines went through an entire edition with no Drop Pod model. Likewise for Chaos and the Defiler...)

If they released just the new stuff with the codex release, it would leave them free to dribble out model updates, apocalypse formations, new option kits, etc over the life of the codex. People would still be getting new stuff, but they would also have a fully playable codex on release.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

mikhaila wrote:Seriously. Dreadfleet doing well means we have a better chance of seeing other specialist games or new boardgames.

Mediocrity should not be rewarded.

"Forget if it's bad - buy it anyway so there's a better chance of getting something good later on" is not a good way to make purchasing decisions. Now I'm not making judgements on the quality of Dreadfleet (it may be a fantastic game - who knows?), but 'buy it so they might make more' isn't a compelling argument.

And I wasn't advising anyone at all to buy it for that reason. I was replying to someone who said he hoped it would fail. I simply see no reason for that line of reasoning. Don't want the game - Don't buy it. Easy enough. But some people are acting like the meer existance of the game is some horrible insult to them.

insaniak wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:It wasn't 5 years ago that people complained incessantly how armies get all their models at once when the Codex is released and then nothing for 6+ years until the next Codex.

Yes, you're right... that didn't happen 5 years ago.

But it's also not the only alternative to releasing a codex with units that don't have existing models and then dribbling those models out over the following decade or two (The 3rd edition Ork codex was in print for 8 or 9 years, and still had 8 units with no existing model when it was phased out. Codex: Space Marines went through an entire edition with no Drop Pod model. Likewise for Chaos and the Defiler...)

If they released just the new stuff with the codex release, it would leave them free to dribble out model updates, apocalypse formations, new option kits, etc over the life of the codex. People would still be getting new stuff, but they would also have a fully playable codex on release.

Yes, yes it did. Much whinging about 'well that's me for x years blah blah blah', Which is I suppose fairly valid in it's own right. But it has switched to the modern 'gumph! Just release it all at once blah blah blah'. Which again, has a certain validity to it.

Also, regarding the Defiler, IIRC that came out erm...6 months after the Codex was released. I was working for GW then, and I remember because I ordered 4 for my Iron Warriors on Staff Pre-Order (ahh, them was the days).

See, when it comes to a project, I'm sure the design team would absolutely love to make everything they want, and have it released at the same time. But that's not exactly practical nor practicable. Lots of other ongoing products, and resources are inherently limited. They can't please all of the people all of the time!

With regards to side projects like Dreadfleet et al, I'm pretty sure it's going to sell out, and will have been priced to make a profit in doing so. And there is always the chance it will get a lapsed gamer back at the table. But I highly doubt the games existence will cause anyone (well, perhaps the odd person with severe mental issues) to rage quit!

Mr Mystery wrote: But I highly doubt the games existence will cause anyone (well, perhaps the odd person with severe mental issues) to rage quit!

Sometimes a drop o water is all it takes to spill a full glass of water, don't you agree? But yes, all people that do things you are not inclined to agree with, for reasons you seem not be willing to understand are persons with mental issues...

NAVARRO wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote: But I highly doubt the games existence will cause anyone (well, perhaps the odd person with severe mental issues) to rage quit!

Sometimes a drop o water is all it takes to spill a full glass of water, don't you agree? But yes, all people that do things you are not inclined to agree with, for reasons you seem not be willing to understand are persons with mental issues...

If people rage quit because a company release a product not of interest to them, they seriously, seriously need their bumps felt.

Mr Mystery wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote: But I highly doubt the games existence will cause anyone (well, perhaps the odd person with severe mental issues) to rage quit!

Sometimes a drop o water is all it takes to spill a full glass of water, don't you agree? But yes, all people that do things you are not inclined to agree with, for reasons you seem not be willing to understand are persons with mental issues...

If people rage quit because a company release a product not of interest to them, they seriously, seriously need their bumps felt.

Actually that happens everyday at any company... people have their reasons and they are as valid as the clients that buys every single thing of a determined company just because, for any reason, they love the company... its called client fidelity. For a number of reasons people prefer brand x or y and when that brand makes something not OK according to client vision, its material to rage quit...

For example small things like outsourcing some production to China for some is more than enough to rage quit... In this case for example a long time 40k player simply closes the door because hes done waiting for that forsaken unit thats never released for his army and instead they release this game...etc

You can call them mental but they are as mental as a you for recriminating a perfect common emotional response to a company behavior.

People have their reasons and thats it.

Every month GW release stuff that doesn't interest me, mostly 40k bits as I'm a Fantasy bloke.

But the whole 'BLARG I R QUIT!' thing...yeah, reallly really don't get that. Ever.

Mr Mystery wrote:Yes, yes it did. Much whinging about 'well that's me for x years blah blah blah', Which is I suppose fairly valid in it's own right. But it has switched to the modern 'gumph! Just release it all at once blah blah blah'. Which again, has a certain validity to it.

No, there was 'whinging' along that vein because people at that point were used to GW's established sales method, which was to release whatever new models they were releasing when a codex was released, and then ignore that army until the next time its codex was revised.

That was nothing to do with GW actually releasing everything for that codex, though. That has very rarely, if ever, happened.

Also, regarding the Defiler, IIRC that came out erm...6 months after the Codex was released. I was working for GW then, and I remember because I ordered 4 for my Iron Warriors on Staff Pre-Order (ahh, them was the days).

I'm sure that makes all the Marine players who waited an entire edition for their Drop Pod feel much better. As, I'm sure, do all the Tyranid players still waiting on, you know, a great chuck of their codex.

See, when it comes to a project, I'm sure the design team would absolutely love to make everything they want, and have it released at the same time. But that's not exactly practical nor practicable.

So save it for the next revision of the codex. Make rules for what you actually can release, and move on. Then you don't have to listen to people complain about not having models for certain units for the next 5 years.

If GW had focused on what they actually had the budget to release and as a result left out 2 or 3 of the new gribblies from the current Tyranid codex, nobody would have missed them. Instead, they threw in a whole bunch of new stuff and, thanks to the wonderful new 'get them excited about upcoming new releases by not telling anybody about them' policy, left people wondering if and when that new stuff will ever actually see the table top.

If they at least released stuff for each army on any sort of regular basis, they wouldn't see as many complaints about not knowing what is coming up. Instead, we're left in the dark about what they're working on, so you might see new models next week, or next decade. Is it really any wonder that people aren't happy about that arrangement.

Mr Mystery wrote:Every month GW release stuff that doesn't interest me, mostly 40k bits as I'm a Fantasy bloke.

But the whole 'BLARG I R QUIT!' thing...yeah, reallly really don't get that. Ever.

Well some are more emotional than others. For example I personally don't do rage quits, I just quit buying and thats it... YET I raged quit rackham confrontation, it was totally unecessary but I falled into that trap and let my emotions go a bit beserk for amoment, so yes even the most cold bugger at any point can go wild

Well, I didnt think I would want it buuuuut having just seen the BoW unboxing of the dreaded Dreadfleet, it made me want to come up with the required moolah....

Damn you GW, Damn you all to hell!

insaniak wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:Yes, yes it did. Much whinging about 'well that's me for x years blah blah blah', Which is I suppose fairly valid in it's own right. But it has switched to the modern 'gumph! Just release it all at once blah blah blah'. Which again, has a certain validity to it.

No, there was 'whinging' along that vein because people at that point were used to GW's established sales method, which was to release whatever new models they were releasing when a codex was released, and then ignore that army until the next time its codex was revised.

That was nothing to do with GW actually releasing everything for that codex, though. That has very rarely, if ever, happened.

Also, regarding the Defiler, IIRC that came out erm...6 months after the Codex was released. I was working for GW then, and I remember because I ordered 4 for my Iron Warriors on Staff Pre-Order (ahh, them was the days).

I'm sure that makes all the Marine players who waited an entire edition for their Drop Pod feel much better. As, I'm sure, do all the Tyranid players still waiting on, you know, a great chuck of their codex.

See, when it comes to a project, I'm sure the design team would absolutely love to make everything they want, and have it released at the same time. But that's not exactly practical nor practicable.

So save it for the next revision of the codex. Make rules for what you actually can release, and move on. Then you don't have to listen to people complain about not having models for certain units for the next 5 years.

If GW had focused on what they actually had the budget to release and as a result left out 2 or 3 of the new gribblies from the current Tyranid codex, nobody would have missed them. Instead, they threw in a whole bunch of new stuff and, thanks to the wonderful new 'get them excited about upcoming new releases by not telling anybody about them' policy, left people wondering if and when that new stuff will ever actually see the table top.

If they at least released stuff for each army on any sort of regular basis, they wouldn't see as many complaints about not knowing what is coming up. Instead, we're left in the dark about what they're working on, so you might see new models next week, or next decade. Is it really any wonder that people aren't happy about that arrangement.

Dude, I play Nids. I've converted up the missing bits I wanted. Namely two Tervigons.

I really find these Dreadfleet models horrible. How is this game relevant at all?

over 100 bucks? No thanks.

Warchylde wrote:I really find these Dreadfleet models horrible. How is this game relevant at all?

over 100 bucks? No thanks.

How is any game relevant?

Kilkrazy wrote:

I just saw this, that makes me LOL. I would have ragequit over this, but uh, I already did after the Dark Eldar codex! Neener!