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Ive been hearing mixed results on the Defiler. Now I have multiple Deffy's but im not entirely sure that I want to run them. Whats your thoughts on it

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/238097.page

As to defilers, they look amazing, that's all you need

But for 150 points id like somthing that didnt have 12 armour in front and on sides. plus considering what it can do its armour is what kills it

Like a lot of Chaos stuff, overpriced and underwhelming. But with a battlecannon and 4 DCCWs, it can rip faces off if it gets left alone. Big "IF" there. Your army list needs to have plenty of other threats or someone will plink those defilers right off the board.

Love 'em. I have 3. I would have 4 if I could.



"RAAAARWWW!"

I've never really been a fan of them and I have to say that I do not entirely think that the Battlecannon fits into the Chaos Army. The reason why I don't favor them, or dreads for that matter is that they are not survivable by themselves. To get the full effect from them you need something bigger or meaner than them to make them survivable or take multiple Defilers which then starts draining points very quickly.

I have found a Defiler is most survivable when coupled with something like a Land Raider.

Generalstoner wrote:I've never really been a fan of them and I have to say that I do not entirely think that the Battlecannon fits into the Chaos Army. The reason why I don't favor them, or dreads for that matter is that they are not survivable by themselves. To get the full effect from them you need something bigger or meaner than them to make them survivable or take multiple Defilers which then starts draining points very quickly.

I have found a Defiler is most survivable when coupled with something like a Land Raider.

In a vacuum defilers are not survivable by themselves no. However when you consider that most chaos lists have at least 2 - 3 rhinos full of some very dangerous troops along with a defiler or two then target priority becomes an issue and the defilers survival rate goes up. Then add cover saves to the equation and all the viable threats to the actual defiler. Now decide how survivable they are.

Two defilers cost 300 points. A landraider and a defiler cost 370. With the current chaos codex most heavy slots are taken in pairs. If your gunna take a defiler, take two. Two landraiders, never take 1. And so on and so forth. It really depends on your list, but two defilers is very scary to a horde list. And with 5 strength 10 attacks, they are scary in CC too.

Also, one of my favorite lists i ever ran with chaos marines was a walker spam list, 3 defilers and 3 dreads at 1500 points.

i have to say when i play against chaos (i play eldar mostly) i do go to nuke those defilers... yeas 150pts is alot but like the previous posts got cc and it has a battle cannon.... i remember the first time i played against one i didnt quite realise what it was armed with and my beautiful da got turned to gooey paste.... I dont play chaos, so i cant tell you have best to make use of them but from my experience they draw alot of fire power away from the rhinos full of bezerks.... this make them a great distraction or for horde based armies a primary target.

anarchy

I looooove them. I'm currently running 3 in my 1750 and my 2000 list, run 2 in my 1500 list.

I'm not sure they if they make up their points every game, but they dramatically change the tactics my opponent has to use. I did notice that going from 2 to 3 defilers gave me an awful lot of control over the board. 3 of those battle cannons is going to melt something's face, no if's, and's, or but's.

I'm not sure I agree with 150 points being expensive. My troop squads kitted out are all well over 200 points (+rhino cost!!). My headquarters are between 150 and 200 points. A *throwaway* termicide group costs what, 110-125? My other heavy options either weigh in at...150 points for 2 oblits, 130(ish) for a auto/laz pred (Which to be honest, I've had pitiful luck with)? That 150 points buys you pretty much everything you need - there aren't any more points you need to dump into it to upgrade with what you need, it all comes standard.

I'm a little surprised at how many folks say defilers are made of paper mache, glass, and broken dreams. They're never struck me as all that fragile. First, they have insane range. With a good size board (4x8) you should have 2 or 3 turns of blasting away before even the longest range special weapons start to creep into range. You can creep around while shooting that big gun too, I've found them much more movile than pillbox predators and slow and purposeful Oblits. AV12 isn't the easiest thing to crack - perfectly doable mind you, but you still have to roll a 3 or 4+ with most special weapons. Cover is a pain in the butt because they're so freakin' big, but they do have smoke launchers. I can usually find one or two spots on the board that will give me a decent cover save and line of fire both for at least one defiler, then can manufacture cover by sticking rhinos or something in front of the others and using their smoke for a bit more cover. Anyway, if they manage to get a good hit on, YOU IGNORE 1/3 OF THE DAMAGE TABLE!. That's crazy useful. Glancing hits are pretty much irrelevant and the odds are in your favor for a penetrating. Because they're walkers, assault troops don't get a free ride like they do against your preds.

The only thing I've really found to be a pain is anti-tank deepstrikers, but honest, Land Raiders have trouble with anti-tank deepstrikers, so what are you going to do?

I've read before that folks don't like their "generalist" abilities. I think that's an interesting position. They're the best (Only?) long-range option in the Chaos Codex (Oblits reign supreme for Mid-range, no denying) and they're pretty darn good in close combat against anything that's not a MC or another walker. I3 sucks, but considering that you're mostly going to be worried about I1 powerfists it's really not an issue. Hell, you can even use the Defiler as a legitimate tank killer if you can get them in range of an assault (Fleet helps).

The only thing they're really awful against is Monsterous Creatures. Hordes and Light armor they're great against. They can damage heavy armor and walkers.

I do not know if 2 Defilers/2-3 Oblits are the best loadout or 3 Defilers. So far I'm really liking the 3 Defiler setup though.

I love my defiler, and it's one of my most survivable units.

If your army has 2 lash princes a defiler will not get shot at much.

Personally I go with 4CCW and I hide mine in a building along with my havocs. 12/12/10 is very survivable when it's 50% obscured for a 4+ cover save, and that is very easy to do with GW buildings because the defiler's head and gun can see over the top of a GW building for a clear shot out, while shots in can see less than 50% of the defiler. It keeps pesky fast moving assault units away from my havocs. The same tactic will work with obliterators, but with a power fist on each obliterator they need the defiler less than the havocs.

At 1,500 points they're great. I always run 2 at 1,500 points, and a possessed Vindi. Those 3 nasty pieplates make a mess out of anything when combined with a lash prince.

Once you start getting above 1,500 points, though, Obliterators become the better choice as at higher points, you're strapped for FOC slots, not points.

Im considering taking 3 squads of 3 obliterators for my heavies.

ghargatuloth wrote:Im considering taking 3 squads of 3 obliterators for my heavies.

well thats 675 points, i hope your not putting that in a 1500 list.

For what you pay, defiler's are quite good. By no means are they the most competitive Heavy Support choice (that goes to Obliterators), however they are still quite good, providing a mix of ranged and CC ability as well as armour saturation. I'd use them in semi-competitive (or even fully competitive) games all the time, however Obliterators are better in almost all cases. I just love the look and game play of Defilers.

Hence, Competitive = Obliterators. Any thing = Defilers.

Defilers have never failed me when I committed them correctly. If you can nail a meq unit with the battle cannon while you're moving up and then get into CC with all those DCCWs then they can work wonders. I run mine with 3 CCW, Battlecannon, and TL heavy flamers. Battle cannon for when they're hiking across the field, hvy flamer for the turn they assault. Never failed me.

Defilers are great you will always be amazed on how much people shoot at them. Everyone really hates battlecannons for some reason... Just always run them in at least pairs otherwise you are asking for trouble.

I personally like this HS setup:
3 Defilers or 2 Defilers 3 Obliterators or 9 Obliterators or 3 oblits, 1 defiler, and 1 vindicator. I never really like havos/predators/LR's as much in the heavy slot.

ps 9 Oblits + 2 Lash Princes = plasma cannon fun

I think defilers are great. Take 2-3. Battlecannons are helpful when you need them, auto cannons are great for popping transports and they have fleet and lots of attacks when they need to get in close. Also, daemon possession, along with the fact that they have 5 weapons, basically means that they have a 4+ from results on the damage table, since a 1 or a 2 will do nothing and it takes 4 weapon destroyed results to render a defiler non threatening.

If you do take the Defiliers, also consider what other threads you can field with all your heavy slots filled.

Double Daemon Prince and a Greater Daemon are really good threats which only add another 400 points to your list.

Put some Termies in a Land Raider (depending on your point level) and throw everything else in Rhinos and speed up to your opponent. If you put enough things in their face, the Defiliers will be ignored while more threatening things are shot at/assaulted.

I've found that Defilers are extremely easy to pop, based on the AV12 and the model's physical size.

Even in a CSM list my friend ran for a while- (2x DPs, Dreadnought and Defiler), i knocked the Defiler out first turn all three games due to it being the only thing on the board that couldnt be completely obscured by most terrain.... Of course this does come down to how you model your Defiler, but still.

Well, anytime you present your opponent with only two targets those two targets are dead.

^ yes.
Armor/Target Saturation is paramount in general.

I find that I only expect one shot from it...so to make sure I get one shot, it usually hangs in reserves as I do not always rely on having enough blocking line of sight for the hulking thing.

But...to be frank, I only got the Defiler cause I liked the modelling project, not exactly for board performance.

While Defilers look great at the battle field, they are not often seen in competitve CSM armies.
They might have a place in walker-heavy CSM forces.

If someone wants to destroy it, it's not that hard. It's only AV12. However, most results even on penetrating hits are rather inconsequential.

It ignores Shaken and Stunned, a Weapon Destroyed result isn't the end of the world if you're running all DCCWs, and even immobilized still lets you fire that Battle Cannon assuming it hasn't been knocked off. So really there's only a 1/3 chance in taking it out of the fight on a penetrating hit, and a 1/3 chance of doing absolutely nothing to it. Meanwhile, all the shots going at it are not going at your other things, like your Rhinos or Princes.

I find that a pair is well worth 300 points. Especially coupled with lash princes, a pair can go a long way. Against a Strakken Blob guard list the other day, the combination was horrifying. Jump 12, lash 24, guardsmen clustered up and no longer in cover, 2 battlecannons, squad's basically rendered ineffective.

Well, I think that a mech CSM force will eventually favor Vindicators instead of Defilers.
On the other hand, Obliterators are great when it comes to fire support and they hardly can be overlooked.

Too big, dies instantly.

I'm intrigued with the Defiler. I run one in my Khorne army and it usually lives the whole game. Alas as others have said that could be because there are much more threatening targets on the table.

I'm considering running a chaos list with 2 Defilers, 2 Dreads and 2 Princes. The rest of the army will form a shooting castle while those 6 units run up the board and into the enemy lines. I think in that configuration, 6 power cc units together, they can present a major threat and some of them will break through to the enemy lines.

why one earth would you run a dread? Whenever i play with 1 it blows my tanks up, and it still starts on the other side of my deployment zone. but the reason defilers die is because they are scary

ghargatuloth wrote:why one earth would you run a dread? Whenever i play with 1 it blows my tanks up, and it still starts on the other side of my deployment zone. but the reason defilers die is because they are scary

Let them die. They take an inordinate amount of fire, ignore Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results, they don't care much about weapon destroyed, and if they're immobilized they've still got a Battle Cannon to play with!

Chaos Dreads with 2xCCW's are very cheap, and less likely to blow your own stuff up. Plus with their front fire arc only extending 45 degrees, the liklihood of them wrecking your own stuff is greatly affected by what you put in front of them.