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I like running the defiler because it does scare oppenents into focus firing into it. sure my deffy hasnt lived till mabye turn 4 but usually there not much on his side. he kills lots of people. he moves, shoots the cannon, and if he wants to assault the run him in with 4 DCCW.
Love the Deffy, have one going to have 2 and a LR filled with Zerkers.

Schaden
I think you make some good points about defilers vs. obliterators. Id never really considered using them to protect a squad of plague marines. but yeah the stuff that is death to the marines is pretty much hosed by the defiler.

I quit playing chaos space marines because I feel they are so limited: poor mobility, no strategic flexibility (no chapter tactics, no reroll reserves, no psychic defenses etc.) if you have to ride av 11 rhinos into battle and your facing down 10 twin linked lascannons and a pair of melta vet squads in valkryes your basically finished. MB you can help me understand... why do some really experienced players keep saying they're good? I dont get it.

AF

Also, one of my favorite lists i ever ran with chaos marines was a walker spam lnd 3 dreads at 1500 points.

I run both, they're that sick nasty! I wish I could have more than 3 Oblits in a unit though :(

Telemicus wrote:



Also, one of my favorite lists i ever ran with chaos marines was a walker spam lnd 3 dreads at 1500 points.

Add two Deamon Princes and a Greater Deamon and you can see the sweat gush as your opponent tries to choose the biggest threat.

I totally agree with warone i found if you throw other threats in their face your defilers wont even get shot at DPs,greaters,and a LR full of termis are good distractions and i would use three defilers with a WS of three it brightens you odds of createring a squad or a rhino w/a squad or multiple plates on a HQ

Should I bother with chaos dreadnoughts? I've been hearing mixed things about them, but they don't seem that bad, for 90 points. I mean really. There's very little worth using in the elites section anyway, so my approach is basically "what the hell...."

They retain the good ol' 4 WS and 4 BS, which is nice, and they can take plasma cannons, which I want. The only problem is the model, which is solid pewter and it's 50 bucks with no options....Should I go for it?

If I really had to, I could just get the venerable dreadnought and totally destroy it into chaos-ness.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Should I bother with chaos dreadnoughts? I've been hearing mixed things about them, but they don't seem that bad, for 90 points. I mean really. There's very little worth using in the elites section anyway, so my approach is basically "what the hell...."

They retain the good ol' 4 WS and 4 BS, which is nice, and they can take plasma cannons, which I want. The only problem is the model, which is solid pewter and it's 50 bucks with no options....Should I go for it?

If I really had to, I could just get the venerable dreadnought and totally destroy it into chaos-ness.

A lot of it depends on if you follow the "Crazy Dread shoots what's in front of it" or the "Crazy Dread shoots whatever is closest to it" dogma. The first makes it more viable, although really they're pretty tolerable regardless.

Personally, I find them to be somewhat under-gunned, but I'm too chicken to give them anything that could threaten my rhinos. I also tend to play the shoots closest idea, though I might discuss with my opponents the possibility of using the more liberal interpretation of the rule.

The AOBR dread is easy to convert into a Chaos dread with the chaos tank upgrade sprue. If you've put together any Rhinos you should have *more* than enough leftover spikey bits to a nice looking chaos dread. Just takes a minimum of filing to take off the imperial iconography/purity seals. They're pretty cheap too, you can get them for $16 shipped all day long and can sometimes weasel $12 shipped.

I would use my own AoBR dreadnought, but I'm actual proud of it

I'll ask around to see if any of my friends will pawn me their dreadnoughts. I've gotten roughly 3 of those tank sprues, so yeah, it should be easy enough. I'll drill some holes in the dreadnought and just stick spikes down there, BOOM! Chaos dreadnought.

I'm rather worried about it looking too loyalist though, so I'll have to scrape off the entire front of the sarcophagus....

OMG I LOVE EBAY. 1.70$ for 5 terminators 2.80$ for 10 marines

I must get a paypal account.

Samus
Chaos dreads are fine if you can deliver them. but theyre av12 and have to walk. id put my money on this guy getting blown away before he can enter close combat. then basically your paying 100+ points for a twin linked lascannon/autocannon whatever. not worth it AF

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Samus
Chaos dreads are fine if you can deliver them. but theyre av12 and have to walk. id put my money on this guy getting blown away before he can enter close combat. then basically your paying 100+ points for a twin linked lascannon/autocannon whatever. not worth it AF

Then I guess I'll wait until we get drop pods then (hopefully next codex, I've been hearing rumors) I just realized that if he goes berserk in the first couple turns, he can just shoot at the drop pod!

Samus_aran115 wrote: I mean really. There's very little worth using in the elites section anyway, so my approach is basically "what the hell...."

well the chosen are worth it you can infiltrate with 5 meltas or come in with an icon for daemons to drop in with by the next turn and dont forget termis they have a multitude of uses

[img]http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/118780-Scorpion%20Defiler%20pic2.html

I've had some success with my defiler. Just one doesn't seem to be enough though. Explodes too often, you see. I have all the parts for a second scorpion, just lazy. I think I'll get on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do i put the damn picture up?

@Kilwar324:
Infiltrating Chosen are pretty sad.
They are heavily dependent on terrain game to game.

Getting the initial 12" means they can get a shot with the meltas, but it will never be with 2D6.

If there's poor terrain, that means 18", which means they can never get a shot with the meltas.

Termies are shoe-horned into one role: termicides, anything else, and you'd be better with just more troops.

Face it, the defiler is a 'fun'/'themed' option. It can perform, but it's not gonna be a consistant performer due to mainly the identity crisis issues it has.

annabelle wrote:[img]http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/118780-Scorpion%20Defiler%20pic2.html

I've had some success with my defiler. Just one doesn't seem to be enough though. Explodes too often, you see. I have all the parts for a second scorpion, just lazy. I think I'll get on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do i put the damn picture up?

You need an [/img] at the end of the HTML. Or hit the "image" button again once you paste the link in.

Like So:



There!


Also with Dakkas Gallery I always must go to the pic itself and right click on it and hit "copy image location" instead of using the actual html in the bar above the page.

Thanks so much. Now I need to build number 2 so I can post him.

Apoc game this weekend - four defilers in my command. The old chaos LR blew up with one shot - while the defilers cut a swathe of destruction from afar with battlecannons, ripping up several dreadnaughts, chimaera etc and immobilizing a Russ, de-weaponing a Baal etc. If they'd gotten into CC it would have been even better! So, the upshot is, my army grew by one more Defiler. Defile 'em all!

I wonder if people would take Defilers more if they could get 4 DCCW's and replace the cannon with a TL Multi-melta. That way it has a clear reason to rush up field and can really threaten tanks.

It's not a better option, but I think it's one more people would get.

So, I can't say how well a defiler works with the rest of the chaos codex, but as I guard player, if I had the chance to take a LRBT and give up +2 front armor for FOUR DCCW's and the ability to always take close combat hits on the front, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

yea but you also would take meltas over autocannons at long range (just bustin balls Ailaros no harm intended )
Hey how does that 4 DCCW thing work? does it give him like, rerolls or something? cause i know he only get 1 attack in addition for having two single handed weapons...

Each additional Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon gives him +1 attack, as per the Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon rules. So, if he has 4 CCWs, and 2 attacks base, he has a total of 5 attacks. Granted, they're at WS and Initiative 3 so he'll die horribly to any other MCs or Walkers. He is well and truly a bully unit, meant to hit targets that can't hurt him back.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Should I bother with chaos dreadnoughts? I've been hearing mixed things about them, but they don't seem that bad, for 90 points. I mean really. There's very little worth using in the elites section anyway, so my approach is basically "what the hell...."

They retain the good ol' 4 WS and 4 BS, which is nice, and they can take plasma cannons, which I want. The only problem is the model, which is solid pewter and it's 50 bucks with no options....Should I go for it?

If I really had to, I could just get the venerable dreadnought and totally destroy it into chaos-ness.

Convert plastic SM Dreads its fun and adds flavor .Look for them on ebay or Apocabits

DarkHound wrote:Each additional Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon gives him +1 attack, as per the Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon rules. So, if he has 4 CCWs, and 2 attacks base, he has a total of 5 attacks. Granted, they're at WS and Initiative 3 so he'll die horribly to any other MCs or Walkers. He is well and truly a bully unit, meant to hit targets that can't hurt him back.

AAAAAH thanks for that...yea that I guess IS pretty scary...though the BA furioso death company dread has more attacks doesnt he?
regardless, won't almost anywalker die to MC hits? I mean I thought thats what ALL walkers (pretty much) were for, killing squishy infantry and tanks, as walker on walker or walker v MC combat usually results in some serious carnage...

If he had WS and BS 4 I'd like him more. I'd pay 200 points if that were the case.

dbsamurai wrote:AAAAAH thanks for that...yea that I guess IS pretty scary...though the BA furioso death company dread has more attacks doesnt he?
regardless, won't almost anywalker die to MC hits? I mean I thought thats what ALL walkers (pretty much) were for, killing squishy infantry and tanks, as walker on walker or walker v MC combat usually results in some serious carnage...

It can't be both Furioso and Death Company, and although a Furioso with Bloodtalons can rack up more attacks they are only at S6.

Honestly though, I like having more guns over 2 extra attacks. Those two attacks will usually account for a single other kill. I take the TL-Heavy Bolter and TL-Heavy Flamer over it. Usually I can pick up atleast a kill or two before the combat starts, unless they're GEQs and then I kill swathes of them. That kill extra kill in combat resolution is something to consider, but I like being able to touch the enemy all the way until my Defiler actually dies.

I find all the TW Flamer does is put him out of assault range, especially since he's Fleet.

That and if you fire the battle cannon the other two guns are wasted anyway. So you might as well have the two extra claws.

Obviously you have to be careful when you're shooting prior to close combat. If you're 5 or so inches away and need the squad locked up instead of dead, you'll Fleet instead. If you want the squad dead, often the shooting will net you as much as a round of close combat (getting 4 hits with the Heavy Flamer will net you 1.75 dead Marines, while a 4 CCW Dread charging will get you a solid 2). The reason why I don't like Battlecannons at close range is the risk of scattering. With a TL-Heavy Bolter and a TL-Heavy Flamer you will very reliably deal damage, but a Battlecannon has a large chance of causing no damage. Infact, it has a fair chance of scattering back into itself (big... meaty... claws!). The Battlecannon has a higher damage potential, but there are other complications: cover ruins its effectiveness compared to the secondary weapons, which aren't really affected by cover.

The fact of the matter is, even with 4 close combat weapons the Defiler isn't a CC monster. He'll kill 2 enemies on average, be it MEQ or Guardsmen. His WS3 makes most Powerfists all the more effective against him. He can't fight other MCs and Walkers. He can kill tanks in close combat, but then again who can't?

DarkHound wrote:The fact of the matter is, even with 4 close combat weapons the Defiler isn't a CC monster. He'll kill 2 enemies on average, be it MEQ or Guardsmen. His WS3 makes most Powerfists all the more effective against him. He can't fight other MCs and Walkers. He can kill tanks in close combat, but then again who can't?

But then again i dont know ANYONE who would let a defiler get that close to their tanks.

ghargatuloth wrote:

DarkHound wrote:The fact of the matter is, even with 4 close combat weapons the Defiler isn't a CC monster. He'll kill 2 enemies on average, be it MEQ or Guardsmen. His WS3 makes most Powerfists all the more effective against him. He can't fight other MCs and Walkers. He can kill tanks in close combat, but then again who can't?

But then again i dont know ANYONE who would let a defiler get that close to their tanks.

They wont have a choice as they are dealing with another defiler and obliterators. Not to mention rhinos with double melta plague marines and zerkers.