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now, before I begin.

by definition, the bases they are supplied with means one for one. if I make a model using about four kits, (kit bashing, as it is known) can I use any of the bases supplied with that model kit?

besides the point, banner bearer has been modded to look awesome [painted after terminators, for anyone following my blog.]

but, the problem is, he's going to be about 15 grams top heavy. (I measure this shiz, I'm a geek.) which means, even though he's not even built yet, he has no chance on a basic TAc marine base.

so, I'm bumping him up to the terminator base, due to the fact that parts of his kit are from the terminator.

despite the TFGness of this rule, and it's not intended MFA, do I have to make a boring banner bearer?

(NB: the banner bearer is going to be kicking enemy guardian.) because of this, he will be so top heavy (a banner is a heavy piece of plastic.) enough not even a 25 gram weight will hold him.

would it be an acceptable exception to the rule?

Captain Solon wrote:
would it be an acceptable exception to the rule?

unfortunately, the answer is "with your opponent's permission". what i'd suggest is to look into 30mm bases (see the thread linked below). another dakkite had a similar problem and the 30mm base helped solve it (his wasn't top heavy, just looked to big for the base). 30mm bases generally won't be noticed by opponents and don't have nearly the same size/assault issues that putting him on a termie base would. that being said, your standard bearer may still be too top heavy/unbalanced for this but at least it's an alternative.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/300728.page

You would need you opponents permision, I cant see anybody objecting if it looks awesome though It would probably be a problem in competitive games and i doubt a TO would allow it. In firendly games, you'd have to ask, but i dont see any people objecting if it looks as though it really does need a bigger base

Opponent/TO Permission.
Few will be TFG, but be prepared with a back up model.

Seriously... there's really no other answer you can find on the internet...

It could be Golden Daemon material or even winner, and RAW would still say the same thing. Else, YourOwnHammer is the other option.

I beleive that the rule implies that you would use the normal base used for the figure that you are replacating. Example, I bought a bunch of chaos hounds to use as kroot hounds and instead of using the rectangular bases they came with I put them on the 25mm base that normal kroot hounds use.

Anyways, I would say that becuase of this you would need to use the normal marine base if you want it to be strictly rules-acceptable. However, I don't know anyone who would mind the slight base size change on a single model in a friendly game. Like said before though, bring another model to stand as the bearer incase you do meet TFG.

@Fiercegoldfish:

The hounds need to be based on what they came with.
Then you have the second issue of 'count as'/'proxy' which is IIRC opponent consent as well.

Sanctjud wrote:@Fiercegoldfish:

The hounds need to be based on what they came with.
Then you have the second issue of 'count as'/'proxy' which is IIRC opponent consent as well.

They are on the base that the normal hounds come with. The rule is in place to make sure that my hounds don't have a differnt assualt range, etc. than the normal ones. not sure where I read it but I beleive I read somewhere that as long as a stand-in resembles the original model and is completey uniform throughout the army it is fine. Not sure if I read this in the rulebook or in the ard boys tourney rules or something.

I have no doubt that my hounds would be allowed in tourney.

Captain Solon wrote:by definition, the bases they are supplied with means one for one. if I make a model using about four kits, (kit bashing, as it is known) can I use any of the bases supplied with that model kit?

You keep asking similar questions as if you're going to get a different answer.

The answer is, once again, the same as for any other question involving conversions: There are no rules covering conversions in Warhammer 40000.




The closest you will get to sticking to the rules is to use the appropriate sized base for whatever the model is representing on the board.

But really if your model is so top heavy. You could just heavily modify the small 25mm base by adding a ton of weight to the bottom of the base as well ass maybe at some more heavy scenery basing to said base to counter it being so top heavy.

A Matter of Pride wrote: But really if your model is so top heavy. You could just heavily modify the small 25mm base by adding a ton of weight to the bottom of the base as well ass maybe at some more heavy scenery basing to said base to counter it being so top heavy.

I'm doing this with some of the hounds; just add washers to the bottum of the base.

insaniak wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:by definition, the bases they are supplied with means one for one. if I make a model using about four kits, (kit bashing, as it is known) can I use any of the bases supplied with that model kit?

You keep asking similar questions as if you're going to get a different answer.

The answer is, once again, the same as for any other question involving conversions: There are no rules covering conversions in Warhammer 40000.

The closest you will get to sticking to the rules is to use the appropriate sized base for whatever the model is representing on the board.

It is the human condition to repeat things and expect different outcomes.

I'm human. don't know what you are, Ian. [no offence intended.]

Yes, your opponent is allowed rights of veto.

OTOH, if your opponent vetos it, do you want to play with him?

Well, not really. having an awesome unique army is more important then playing by a stupid [if you don't mind my saying so] rule.

or, at least, it should be for blatent MFA situations, but abig base isn't one of those.

Captain Solon wrote:It is the human condition to repeat things and expect different outcomes.

I'm human. don't know what you are, Ian. [no offence intended.]

Actually, that's the definition of insanity.

As A Matter of Pride said, it is much easier to weight the model down than to change the bases. All my plastic models (for example my berserkers) have pennies glued under the base to help them stand up and stay put. If that's not heavy enough you could be thinking about steel or lead disks or even standing the guy on a thin sheet of metal.

If that's not enough you could give him concrete boots and attach stabilisers to the model.

Captain Solon wrote:by definition, the bases they are supplied with means one for one. if I make a model using about four kits, (kit bashing, as it is known) can I use any of the bases supplied with that model kit?

Didn't see a response to this point in particular, but for basing kit bashed models you would probably have to use the base that the model is intended to represent. So for RAW to be satisfied you would have to use the smaller base supplied with the typical banner bearer model. You couldn't say, use terminator legs for the banner bearer, and claim that since those legs were supplied with a bigger base that it would be legal to use the larger base for a banner bearer. Conversely, if you gave a terminator sergeant a kickass banner from the standard bearer model, you couldn't base him on one of the smaller bases just because you used a piece from the kit that comes with it.

lies.

Didn't see a response to this point in particular, but for basing kit bashed models you would probably have to use the base that the model is intended to represent.

^This^ is the answer to your original question.

You are right, Insaniak said the same thing earlier, I just missed it.

Anything that is not directly 'out-of-the-box' models with no conversions requires 'opponents permission'.

It really is that simple. Saying 'I used part of a model that has a 40mm base so I can put the whole thing on 40mm' is trying to force stupidity on opponents. Don't insult them with trying to force rules and models on people, just follow 'rule of cool' and ask nicely for opponents permission.

Why is asking for opponents permission so hard? If you clearly not modeling for advantage then you will never have issues.

nkelsch wrote:
Why is asking for opponents permission so hard? If you clearly not modeling for advantage then you will never have issues.

There's something that makes people reluctant to give the opponent veto rights over their army. I must admit, it puts a dampener on my game to know that you can get P.O.'d and tell me to take the model off at any time.

Pika_power wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
Why is asking for opponents permission so hard? If you clearly not modeling for advantage then you will never have issues.

There's something that makes people reluctant to give the opponent veto rights over their army. I must admit, it puts a dampener on my game to know that you can get P.O.'d and tell me to take the model off at any time.

Then... don't convert anything and play with stock models that are 100% WYSIWYG? If the social aspect of interacting with others is such an issue that the worry of someone Vetoing your models and refusing to play you is so bad, then use stock models and don't try to use extreme conversions or full blown 'counts as' armies.

I do know what you are talking about and it usually involves people who don't want or can't take criticism on conversions and just get really pissed off if anyone dislikes their models but honestly many models are very inappropriate conversions and deserve to me restricted from gameplay because they are not WYSIWYG, poorly thought out conversions, actually negatively impacting gameplay or flat out lazy proxies.

Which is why if you want to dabble in 'custom models' then you live and die by 'rule of cool' which is a harsh mistress when your 'cool' battlewagon is an unpainted disgusting dollar-store tank combined with a toiletpaper roll and your opponent doesn't want to play you.

Base size is the same thing. People know when it is cheating, and people know when it is cinematic. But any time there is a point in gameplay where the size WILL make a difference, opponents consent rules and you should expect and graciously use a stand-in base size instead of trying to say '40% of my model is from models that use 40mm bases so it is legal by this interpretation and you have no right to complain.' That is probably more rude and insulting and anti-social than the oversized base. If your opponent didn't have a beef, he might now after being told something like that.

Don't convert or accept 'rule of cool' which is 100% opponent having veto power over you. If you can't handle it, then that sounds like a social skills thing.

Not sure if this would work.... but use both bases..?

Place the model on a 25 mm base, which is in turn on top of a 40 mm base. Make any measurements from the smaller base, but have the larger one there for support/more space for a cinematic model.

I was thinking about asking if this would be acceptable for doing to my rune priests, so what better time to suggest/ask

But OMG you're getting a few mm extra hight and that could affect LOS so you are modeling for advantage rabble rabble rabble rabble.

Translation: Go for it.

I have seen cinematic resin bases based upon a 25mm inside a 40mm base.

Shows effort to opponents knowing that if there was a concern in a tourney or a specific assault situation where it did impact the owner of the models is willing to 'make an effort' to be fair to his opponent by using a stand-in if requested.

Probably will never be requested but if you are someone seriously worried about other people Vetoing models it is a nice idea IMHO.

Same can be done for 40mm bases with models who look better on 60mm like a megaboss. The model really should be on 40mm for gameplay but he looks better on a large base. Why not make a dual base for him?

Soup and a roll wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:It is the human condition to repeat things and expect different outcomes.

I'm human. don't know what you are, Ian. [no offence intended.]

Actually, that's the definition of insanity.

As A Matter of Pride said, it is much easier to weight the model down than to change the bases. All my plastic models (for example my berserkers) have pennies glued under the base to help them stand up and stay put. If that's not heavy enough you could be thinking about steel or lead disks or even standing the guy on a thin sheet of metal.

If that's not enough you could give him concrete boots and attach stabilisers to the model.

Soup is dead right on this one. Just weight the base and you've got nothing to worry about. If a penny or a washer isn't enough then get some fine lead (smallest fishing weights squished flat, birdshot, RC yacht ballast (that's the best),whatever) mix it with epoxy and stuff the base full.

If you should need even more I can get you some tungsten washers (heavier than uranium) but they're not cheap....

Pika_power wrote:There's something that makes people reluctant to give the opponent veto rights over their army. I must admit, it puts a dampener on my game to know that you can get P.O.'d and tell me to take the model off at any time.

The entire game is played on the agreement of both players. This is no different to any other potential rules issue that may arise during the game. Or, for that matter, to just getting your opponent to agree to play against your army in the first place.

Captain Solon wrote:if I make a model using about four kits, (kit bashing, as it is known) can I use any of the bases supplied with that model kit?

You actually have to use all four bases.

I say, have fun with it.

Model your standard bearer on the larger base and play with him with any opponents who don't have a problem.

Make a very basic standard bearer on a standard base for use with opponents who do. Maybe his standard could read:

"TFG"

"The rules also say you're a ****!"

"Rules Lawyer"

or

"Douche"

Technically it is an issue, but one model in an army, modeled with the "wrong" base size? How much is it going to change the game?

insaniak wrote:

Pika_power wrote:There's something that makes people reluctant to give the opponent veto rights over their army. I must admit, it puts a dampener on my game to know that you can get P.O.'d and tell me to take the model off at any time.

The entire game is played on the agreement of both players. This is no different to any other potential rules issue that may arise during the game. Or, for that matter, to just getting your opponent to agree to play against your army in the first place.

True, but refusing to play because the opponent is doing something you don't like is being a dick. In this scenario, the rules 'allow' you to do it, so there is no dickery to be found. Also, both players might want a game, so refusing to play isn't an option. In which case they'd follow the rules to solve the dispute. Finally, there's tournaments, where walking away will get you DQ'd.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Soup and a roll wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:It is the human condition to repeat things and expect different outcomes.

I'm human. don't know what you are, Ian. [no offence intended.]

Actually, that's the definition of insanity.

As A Matter of Pride said, it is much easier to weight the model down than to change the bases. All my plastic models (for example my berserkers) have pennies glued under the base to help them stand up and stay put. If that's not heavy enough you could be thinking about steel or lead disks or even standing the guy on a thin sheet of metal.

If that's not enough you could give him concrete boots and attach stabilisers to the model.

Soup is dead right on this one. Just weight the base and you've got nothing to worry about. If a penny or a washer isn't enough then get some fine lead (smallest fishing weights squished flat, birdshot, RC yacht ballast (that's the best),whatever) mix it with epoxy and stuff the base full.

If you should need even more I can get you some tungsten washers (heavier than uranium) but they're not cheap....

I do weight my bases. I know how to, I even fill in gaps for this purpose..

fact is, it doesn't work.

this model has been mounted on a 15 mm base using a 5C coin, and it's still top heavy.