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What do you think is better, Imperial Guard or Space Marines ?

If the gaurd are death korpe then them, other wise marines.

guard codex is more powerful.

Guard! More man-power and tanks than the marines.

The guard wins wars with the help of the marines, not the other way around

Me: We have untold billions of guardsmen, tanks and Artillery!

Space Marine player: Us space marines are worth 1,000 guardsman!

Me: *aims 1,000,000,000,000 lasguns at him*

Space Marine player: Son of a Bi-*dies*


Yup. We own.

Hm, let's see.

Nine foot tall, power armored, genetically and cybernetically enhanced killing machine whose basic infantry weapon is a fully automatic armor piercing rocket propelled grenade launcher versus a cowardly little cardboard-armored flashlight-wielding pants-wetting Guardsman?

You tell me.

SaintHazard wrote:Hm, let's see.

Nine foot tall, power armored, genetically and cybernetically enhanced killing machine whose basic infantry weapon is a fully automatic armor piercing rocket propelled grenade launcher versus a cowardly little cardboard-armored flashlight-wielding pants-wetting Guardsman?

You tell me.

COWARDLY!!!!

You try facing the perils of the warp, daemons, Orks, Eldar, Nyds, Necron, Tau, Chaos Space Marines, Dark Eldar, and Emperor knows what else, in said cardboard, with out the brain washing they do to Space Marines.

SaintHazard wrote:Hm, let's see.

Nine foot tall, power armored, genetically and cybernetically enhanced killing machine whose basic infantry weapon is a fully automatic armor piercing rocket propelled grenade launcher versus a cowardly little cardboard-armored flashlight-wielding pants-wetting Guardsman?

You tell me.

Yeah, but if you had billions upon billions of those cowardly little cardboard-armored flashlight-wielding pants-wetting guardsmen, I'm sure they'd they prove to be more useful.

Cambak wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Hm, let's see.

Nine foot tall, power armored, genetically and cybernetically enhanced killing machine whose basic infantry weapon is a fully automatic armor piercing rocket propelled grenade launcher versus a cowardly little cardboard-armored flashlight-wielding pants-wetting Guardsman?

You tell me.

COWARDLY!!!!

You try facing the perils of the warp, daemons, Orks, Eldar, Nyds, Necron, Tau, Chaos Space Marines, Dark Eldar, and Emperor knows what else, in said cardboard, with out the brain washing they do to Space Marines.

You fail to mention that when they face all that, 70% of the time they turn and run!

But if the space marine has a power fist, than a lightly armoured or even a leman russ is screwed. But Guard has a buttload of aerial fighters and the only thing that might be able to take out a squadron of fighters is the whirlwind, so its almost balanced out but the Guard might have the advantage

ironhand45 wrote:But if the space marine has a power fist, than a lightly armoured or even a leman russ is screwed. But Guard has a buttload of aerial fighters and the only thing that might be able to take out a squadron of fighters is the whirlwind, so its almost balanced out but the Guard might have the advantage

Power fist, say hello to 50 conscripts, 5 to 20 las cannons, and/or up to 100 to 300(if in rapid fire) lasgun shots! You will fail your armor save eventually.

Cambak wrote:

ironhand45 wrote:But if the space marine has a power fist, than a lightly armoured or even a leman russ is screwed. But Guard has a buttload of aerial fighters and the only thing that might be able to take out a squadron of fighters is the whirlwind, so its almost balanced out but the Guard might have the advantage

Power fist, say hello to 50 conscripts, 5 to 20 las cannons, and/or up to 100 to 300(if in rapid fire) lasgun shots! You will fail your armor save eventually.

50 conscripts, say hello to my Whirlwind's large blast template.

... where did the conscripts go?!

Cambak wrote:

ironhand45 wrote:But if the space marine has a power fist, than a lightly armoured or even a leman russ is screwed. But Guard has a buttload of aerial fighters and the only thing that might be able to take out a squadron of fighters is the whirlwind, so its almost balanced out but the Guard might have the advantage

Power fist, say hello to 50 conscripts, 5 to 20 las cannons, and/or up to 100 to 300(if in rapid fire) lasgun shots! You will fail your armor save eventually.

Eventually? Probably after about 10 hits. Str 3 still wounds on a 5+, which is a 1 in 3 chance. Conscripts are awesome.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Cambak wrote:

ironhand45 wrote:But if the space marine has a power fist, than a lightly armoured or even a leman russ is screwed. But Guard has a buttload of aerial fighters and the only thing that might be able to take out a squadron of fighters is the whirlwind, so its almost balanced out but the Guard might have the advantage

Power fist, say hello to 50 conscripts, 5 to 20 las cannons, and/or up to 100 to 300(if in rapid fire) lasgun shots! You will fail your armor save eventually.

Eventually? Probably after about 10 hits. Str 3 still wounds on a 5+, which is a 1 in 3 chance. Conscripts are awesome.

Well, not quite "after 10 hits" but 300 shots would still obliterate a squad of MEqs, however only in the best case scenario.

You may not be familiar with the statistic survivability of a squad of MEqs.

Let me mathhammer it out for you:

Best case scenario, 300 shots. BS2 = 1/3 to hit, S3 vs T4 = 5+ = 1/3 to wound. 3+ armor = 1/3 to fail.

So.

1/3 * 1/3 * 1/3 * 300 = 11.11 wounds. You'd down a single Tac squad with that kind of firepower. But think about that for a second... 300 shots to down a Tac squad.

That's a LOT of flashlights required.

Let's go with your 100 shots number.

1/3 * 1/3 * 1/3 * 100 = 3 wounds.

So if all didn't go exactly to plan, you'd kill 3 marines.

Not quite so nice, eh? Enough for a morale check, though. So I suppose you COULD make it work, IF the MEq squad fails leadership at what's usually Ld9 or 10.

SaintHazard wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Cambak wrote:

ironhand45 wrote:But if the space marine has a power fist, than a lightly armoured or even a leman russ is screwed. But Guard has a buttload of aerial fighters and the only thing that might be able to take out a squadron of fighters is the whirlwind, so its almost balanced out but the Guard might have the advantage

Power fist, say hello to 50 conscripts, 5 to 20 las cannons, and/or up to 100 to 300(if in rapid fire) lasgun shots! You will fail your armor save eventually.

Eventually? Probably after about 10 hits. Str 3 still wounds on a 5+, which is a 1 in 3 chance. Conscripts are awesome.

Well, not quite "after 10 hits" but 300 shots would still obliterate a squad of MEqs, however only in the best case scenario.

You may not be familiar with the statistic survivability of a squad of MEqs.

Let me mathhammer it out for you:

Best case scenario, 300 shots. BS2 = 1/3 to hit, S3 vs T4 = 5+ = 1/3 to wound. 3+ armor = 1/3 to fail.

So.

1/3 * 1/3 * 1/3 * 300 = 11.11 wounds. You'd down a single Tac squad with that kind of firepower. But think about that for a second... 300 shots to down a Tac squad.

That's a LOT of flashlights required.

Let's go with your 100 shots number.

1/3 * 1/3 * 1/3 * 100 = 3 wounds.

So if all didn't go exactly to plan, you'd kill 3 marines.

Not quite so nice, eh? Enough for a morale check, though. So I suppose you COULD make it work, IF the MEq squad fails leadership at what's usually Ld9 or 10.

cowardly, to compare your space marines to conscripts. Compair your predators to leman russ. Compare your whirlwind to our manticore. Soon you will see our power.

I have played both codexes. and I must say, Imperial guard win hands down. space marines might be 1000 times better than imperial guard, but fluff wise, there is 1 space marine per imperial world. to be fair, that is probably 1 million actual Guardsmen versus every space marine, and closer to 12 billion on cadia id hate to be THAT space marine

I just think Marines are overdone. I've been tired of them since about 1990 lol!

This turned into Guardsmen vs Space Marine's pretty quickly.

Do whichever seems cooler, Guard armies tend to cost alot though.

Pssst. Both suck the Space Wolves will kill both and call it a day.

Problem is, most people look at this from agame perspective and not a fiction perspective. If you "believe" fluff then just a Company of space marines can stop and entire uprising by themselves. I don't think I have ever read in a 40k book where a lasgun takes down a marine.

In Nightbringer it talks about how the UM 4th company walks up a hill at a mass of traitor guardsman and have less than a handful of marines killed. THose killed are taken down by krak missiles or earthshakers. Marines are supposed to be nearly invulnerable when compared to a guardsman according to fluff.

Marines hands down.

Okay, people, before this turns into the internet's most awkward pep-fest, let me ask. What do you mean by "better"?

SaintHazard wrote:

Cambak wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Hm, let's see.

Nine foot tall, power armored, genetically and cybernetically enhanced killing machine whose basic infantry weapon is a fully automatic armor piercing rocket propelled grenade launcher versus a cowardly little cardboard-armored flashlight-wielding pants-wetting Guardsman?

You tell me.

COWARDLY!!!!

You try facing the perils of the warp, daemons, Orks, Eldar, Nyds, Necron, Tau, Chaos Space Marines, Dark Eldar, and Emperor knows what else, in said cardboard, with out the brain washing they do to Space Marines.

You fail to mention that when they face all that, 70% of the time they turn and run!

I am not lying when I say I played a full game against Nids, who assaulted all my squads in CC, Not a single squad failed a moral check.

I would like to see you not run up when a trygon just ate your Best Friend.

Space Marine: I feel no Fear! See me Charge a chaos lord?

Imperial guardsman 30 feet to Space marine's Left: I FEEL FEAR! See Me Charge from My Bunker! See Me, A Simple Man Armed with Little more than a Combat knife, Charge headfirst into the horde of Chaos Space marines!

Also did you know, The first person to fall to chaos was not a normal man. He was the Commander of a Space Marine Legion.

Actually, it's strongly implied that Horus was not the first to fall to Chaos, but several Primarchs as well as numerous Imperial citizens already had the seed of Chaos growing for years before the Emperor left Horus in charge.

Well, lets take a look. Space marines: weed out the weak, ex:high risk of implant failure, most die Or quit during the training, and only one in 1000 can even become space marines, not to mention the 10 year wait until power armor is compatiable, so you're facing nid and nurgle uglies in scout armor!. Imp. Guard: any old dude can be picked up by the guard and in a trench being rushed by orks. At a guard base:" ok you little snots, you will be droppped onto the planet helldeathgorekill in 5 minutes, youre armement will be the following :a candle, a helment ,and a a spoon you will be facing chaos marines 20 feet tall with power swords 55 feet tall and bolter guns that fire nuclear artillerly rounds! Good luck. Im gonna have to go wit the guard.

That's... a bit of an exaggeration, but okay.

Ailaros wrote:

Okay, people, before this turns into the internet's most awkward pep-fest, let me ask. What do you mean by "better"?

*Ding Ding* We have a winner folks!

It's definition of better.

Generally, better would suggest a single guardsman vs. a single space marine. Which means that in almost every way except ability to fit through small holes, the Space Marine is better.

Fluff wise, a single Space Marine is vastly superior. As is the case game-wise.

Frankly, to be perfectly honest, I think this thread is doomed. To compare a super-human to a human doesn't really work IMHO.

Dave.

My Space Marines are better than your Space Marines.

Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5SNS40GujY&feature=channel
There is ONLY ONE Space Marine in this video.
He isn't even in terminator armor...

Generalstoner wrote:Problem is, most people look at this from agame perspective and not a fiction perspective. If you "believe" fluff then just a Company of space marines can stop and entire uprising by themselves. I don't think I have ever read in a 40k book where a lasgun takes down a marine.

In Nightbringer it talks about how the UM 4th company walks up a hill at a mass of traitor guardsman and have less than a handful of marines killed. THose killed are taken down by krak missiles or earthshakers. Marines are supposed to be nearly invulnerable when compared to a guardsman according to fluff.

Marines hands down.

Wrong. Heavy bolters killed plenty of marines on pavonis. Also, that wasn't imperial guard that was rebel PDF troops, which aren't even close to as good as guardsmen. They're probably closer to conscripts, actually.
Not only that, but pavonis made their own "knock-off" leman russes, and they still managed to easily kill marines. And those were the ultramarines! The best of the best of the best!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NewGuyWhoDontKnowAnything wrote:Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5SNS40GujY&feature=channel
There is ONLY ONE Space Marine in this video.
He isn't even in terminator armor...

I saw four actually. He was kicking major ass too ^.^

Doesn't matter how out-classed a guardsman is compared to a space marine.

As Chenkov would say, "Send in the next wave!"

Eventually one of the mooks will get lucky or the marine will asphyxiate as the bacteria decomposing the hapless dead sucks all of the oxygen out of the air.

SaintHazard wrote:Hm, let's see.

Nine foot tall, power armored, genetically and cybernetically enhanced killing machine whose basic infantry weapon is a fully automatic armor piercing rocket propelled grenade launcher versus a cowardly little cardboard-armored flashlight-wielding pants-wetting Guardsman?

You tell me.

Actually sigged.

On topic, I think space marines are clearly better one on one (and SM scouts can fit through holes).

Army versus Army... is a tough one. IG certainly have the advantage of numbers. But I don't know how many they could realistically field at one time in one place.

In any case I don't think SM force would willingly meet an IG army head on, if they were so heavily outnumbered. They would choose their battles carefully, launching surgical strikes at supply lines, and fuel dumps, ambushing convoys, and decapitating the enemies HQ.

This is what the fluff suggests Marines are trained to do. And IG usually fair poorly against rogue SM chapters in the fluff... in typical GW plotting, they hold out bravely until marines or the imperial fleet arrives.

Conscripts can't withstand a predator or heavy attack and then after their done, squads of men will kill any survivors.