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Hey people can you give me an insight on a salamander army I need some help!!! If you are using a salamander army pictures could help and Thank you every one!!!

Welcome to dak dak¡ OH GOD FIRE BREATHING SALAMANDERS!!!!

Hey
Welcome to Dakka!
My advice is simple, get Vulkan, get lots of flamers, get lots of meltas!

Moving to the TACTICS forum...

Now, be kind to this young soul!

Land speeder's with Multi-Melta's are always good in a salamnders army because they can goi whizzing around killing everything

Welcome to dakka Rene. I do play a Salamander army from time to time and have had some great success with it.

Yes, unfortunately any competitive "Salamander" army should use Vulkan and somewhat abuse his force multiplier.

For just starting out I would worry about your core/scoring units first. That role is specifically taken up by tacticals mostly. Normally, I would run a pack of 10 with a heavy weapon and a special (flamer or melta) and combat squad them into a razorback. Gives you two scoring units for the price of one and you can have a home base objective holder and a mobile one to grab your opponent's objectives.

If tacticals are your anvil, TH/SS terminators are your hammer (pun intended). I believe hammernators are the most brutal assault unit in the game right now (if math hammer is taken into account) and you're only making them better with Vulkan. I would throw them in a LR Redeemer to keep with the fluff with Vulkan (no Vulkan does not buff the flamestorm).

If you're looking for other things to try, I like to run Ironclads with 2xHF in drop pods. They'd come down turn 1 and cook anything not in a transport. If you run 2 grab a tactical squad with melta/combi-melta in one too, so you can drop two drop pods initially. People will say speeders with MM/HF are good choices and I would agree with them for the most part.

Hope that helps and good luck.

Thanks Alpharius. The Vulcans are they expensive how much on average do they cost?? same with the Multi-Melta. Because I'm strapped for cash!!!!

The Vulkan model will run about $20. I myself run a salamanders knockoff. In a standard 1850 I run 3 tactical squads in rhinos, 5 Hammernators in a LRR w/ MM, 2 MM/HF Speeders, 2 Vindicators. For my last heavy support I either run a TFC, or shave some points off of my transports and vindis by removing dozer blades and run an AC/LC pred to pop transports.

I would imagine that drop podding vanilla dreads w/ MM/HF would be good and might eliminate the need for the speeders if you drop 2 or 3.

Run all your tac squads with Combi-flamers and flamers OR Combi-Melta and Meltagun. have Lascannons as the heavy weapon(MMs are too stationary and short ranged to do anything besides area denial)

Ironclads with 2 flamers.

Dreadnoughts with MM and HF.

Sternguard with 2 HFs and 8 Combi-flamers OR 2 Meltaguns and 8 combi-meltas.

Command squad with 4 Meltas or Flamers and a captain with TH and Combi-melta or combi-flamer.

TH/SS terminators.


these are all good Salamander units.

Thanks pdawg517 for the cost of the Vulcan.

You might find the model cheaper on ebay. Just be sure to spell it correctly. Vulkan He'stan when searching!

Okay thanks!!

Also, vulcan really only starts to shine in bigger armies, the more points the better he is. For low point games he is a bad HQ choice.

As for units:

Stenguards with combiflamers are great but require locator pods and a gating libby to truly shine so sterns arent for all builds.

Terminators, go for hammers ang go for BIG squads. 5 are worthless and will not do a proper job vs their intended targets like deamon princes of doom and tyranid monsters.

Tacs:
Never, ever take any melee weapon on the seargents. Tacs are mediocre can-do-all units that arent good at anything. They will always get outshot and outmeleed by your opponents specials.
Tacs are used as objective grabbers and support units for the real hitters in your army. Having a tac tid in melee is loosing mobility of an objective grabber and being stuck in a loosing war.
Throwing points on an expensive powerfist for a unit that absolutely suck in melee is a waste. Use your dedicated melee for melee and tacs as support.
The only wargear worth taking for a tac sergeant in a sallie army are combi bolters. With a pod it gives your tac one extra flame template or melta shot with rerolls on drop.

Flamers and meltas:
Pods are your friend and tacs in pods are even better. Try to stay away from dreads, even in pods, one lucky heavy weapon will kill a dread but not a tac and a dread can be swamped by dirt cheap wheenies like grots, orks, gaunts etc and with the dreads pathetic melee capabilities will be stuck in a pointless melee all game.
Dreads are good massed in pods, otherwise no.

Speeders with MM and HF are a popular choice, the upside is mobility and variety, the downside is they are super fragile and die very easy.

Attack bikes: Always use the MM. Upside is cheaper then the speeder, more durable, just as mobile and CAN tie up enemy units in assault if needed (like firewarriors, IG squads with nasty weapons etc) contrary to the speeder. Drawbacks are marginally more voulnerable to low S small arms and cant choose from two different weapons.

Tanks:
Nothing special to add here except fluff. The Salamanders can be argued, have a very big motor/tank/dread pool to use.


A good Salamanders army usually consists of the unfluffy bikes/attackbikes/speeders as late game mobile tank/infantry hunters.
A large amount of hammer terminators for heavy melee that the flamers cant handle or teleport to where they are needed (pods have locators).
Podded tacs/dreads and other flame and melta shooters that whack tanks and infantry turn one.

These three aspects should be used as a core in your army, anything on top of this is based on preference and fun and maybe fluff but this will be a very strong foundation for a sallie army.


What isnt fluffy:
Speeders, bikes, attackbikes.

What is fluffy:
"Hi tech" wargear and equipment. Terminators of all kinds, sternguards, tanks and techmarines, especially the whirlwind is very fluffy for the salamanders since they were the first legion that truly used them en masse.
Flamers, melta weapons and hammers are also fluffy as are added wargear for your HQs and squad leaders.

I have to disagree that 5 hammernators are worthless. IMO, 5 is a good number for any list lower than 2000. They are a fairly cheap hammer unit that stomps almost anything in combat if they charge yet are not expensive enough to labeled a deathstar unit. Now in a 2500 point list I would definitely run 10. But my list is mech so I have to have points for the LR to deliver them.

As for MM bikes and speeders, each unit has their strengths and weaknesses. Personally I prefer the speeders simply because the option to deepstrike has proved invaluable in many cases.

I would decide before you buy if you want to go mech or drop pod. If you go the drop podding way then I would run 10 assault termies coming in off a beacon. They will get shot at so the higher numbers should help out. If you go mech, then 5 and a LR should do you just fine in 1500 to 2000 point levels. The trick with hammernators is go after the enemies big stuff like MC's, Nobz, etc. Units like gaunts and ork boyz are what kill hammernators through sheer number of attacks.

I like to use the PF's in tactical squads because I usually end up locked in assault with MC's or a walker somehow. I wouldn't say tacticals suck at CC. They can beat most basic things at CC. The trick with tacticals is shoot the assaulty stuff, and assault the shooty stuff. Tactical squads are jack of all trades and master of none.

Reason why a 5 man termie squad suck against the thing they are designed to beat is that they will loose 2-3 models, THEN hit back and those attacks will not be enough to kill of that deamon prince or tyranid monster.
Whereas a larger squad can take those losses and then proceed to steamroll over anything they are tied in melee with.

Plus, a 10 man hammer squad is unparrarelled in defending a line, you can string them out in a 30-ish inch line with coherency and they can react to any threat approaching along that line and counterassault.
A 5 man termie squad just sits in a place without any real defensive reach.

Pyriel- wrote:Reason why a 5 man termie squad suck against the thing they are designed to beat is that they will loose 2-3 models, THEN hit back and those attacks will not be enough to kill of that deamon prince or tyranid monster.
Whereas a larger squad can take those losses and then proceed to steamroll over anything they are tied in melee with.

Plus, a 10 man hammer squad is unparrarelled in defending a line, you can string them out in a 30-ish inch line with coherency and they can react to any threat approaching along that line and counterassault.
A 5 man termie squad just sits in a place without any real defensive reach.

yay for hyperbole? a DP will kill roughly 0.75 TH&SS terminators, which will then inturn cause roughly 3.5 unsaved wounds on the DP without Vulkans ability. With Vulkan you have a high chance of killing him before any fearless wounds are even considered.

Assault Termies without a transport does not work nearlly as well as those with a transport, especially not for a Vulkan army that relies on getting close. So what if you have a large defensive reach, I dont have to get close to you. You have to get close to me or I will shot you out of the sky.

As for the Speeder vs Attackbike, the Bike is more fragile than the speeder vs most kinds of weapons (auto cannons being one of the few exeptions). Bikes are easier to hide tho but can not be used to block movement, speeders can block LRs et all, bikes can not.

I think you need to check your mathhammer pyriel. You wouldn't believe how many tyranid MC's I have beat down in a single game and lost 2-3 in the course of a whole game. In a single game I lost 3 to a Trygon Prime, a Mawloc, a carnifex, and a flyrant.

Pyriel- wrote:Reason why a 5 man termie squad suck against the thing they are designed to beat is that they will loose 2-3 models, THEN hit back and those attacks will not be enough to kill of that deamon prince or tyranid monster.
Whereas a larger squad can take those losses and then proceed to steamroll over anything they are tied in melee with.

Plus, a 10 man hammer squad is unparrarelled in defending a line, you can string them out in a 30-ish inch line with coherency and they can react to any threat approaching along that line and counterassault.
A 5 man termie squad just sits in a place without any real defensive reach.

I hate saying this, but if you are playing a defensive line with hammernators then you are just playing them wrong. They are a strong offensive unit. If you just sit them back to defend then you are wasting 400 points. For 400 points I can get a ton more dakka that will sit back and do way more.

I bet my 5 hammernators coming out of a LR will do more than a 10 strong squad DSing. The LR gives you the ability to have about a 21" assault range and pick your battles while keeping them safe.

Ally in some sisters of battle with their fire fetish and vulkan makes for some mean min/max shenanigans

Slick wrote:Ally in some sisters of battle with their fire fetish and vulkan makes for some mean min/max shenanigans

Relying on a crutch that will be gone soon is not a great way to build your army...

Even if it wasn't going away, I'm still not a huge fan of allies. It is quite different in apocalypse, but in a normal game one should have the tools to win a game in their codex. The whole mystics being taken in every IG army is quite ridiculous and honestly I feel like it is/was a crutch. Now in apocalypse I say take as many allies as you want though I prefer to only use 2 codices at max when I play apoc.

Thanks all of the things should help me start!!

vulkan does not buff allied sisters.
his rule says that models with chapter tactics get the benefit.... sisters do not have chapter tactics and are unaffected. That's true of all sm characters and all allies btw
AF

@Pyriel: why aren't speeders and bikes "fluffy?" Do you have a citation from current books?

its probably because the Sallies are known for being very methodical and ponderous.

something that doesn't exactly conjour up visions of bikes and speeders running around.


Speeders and bikes can benifit greatly from Vulkans abilities so it really doesn't matter.

IMO: anything with a melta or flamer is fluffy for Sallies.

I think AF is incorrect.
By his reasoning, then Land Speeders, Dreads, Allies, and other units without Chapter Tactics would not get Vulkan's benefit.

So, from what I can see in the RAW, allies do get the benefit.

I've looked in the SM FAQ and the DH/WH FAQ's and they do not cover this.
______________

As one can see, Sallies are a close range fighting army.
As such, you should be very comfortable with guestimating 6" and 12" with them.
Loading up on the beneficial weapons is obviously a good suggestion.

If you go the route of Termies in raider as your hammer. Just don't play to relying on it. In general it is quite a big basket of eggs.

I like Vulkan and Bikers combo, but best results at high point games.

Sanctjud has it right.