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I was just lookin through my CSM codex and compaired the stats of the dread and the defiler and i cant really see the point of the dread the crazed special rule is completly crap, yet the defiler has fleet, not great but way way better than the crazed rule. The only point in a dread is for the different wep options, but the defiler has a battle cannon as stadard and decent close combat wep.

Defiler. JUst dont send them up against dreadnoughts (I3 sucks)

Sadly my beloved dreadnoughts screw me over more ofetn than help me now. I usually have to park cheap empty rhinos nearby them just in case. OR use a dreadclaw so they get to assault immediately, entirely removing the crazy rule fot the first turn on the table.

I'd agree with the defiler option. Given the minimal difference in points the Defiler is a better option on it's standard load out. Even if you bump it up with a TL Las you're got way more firepower than a Dread will ever have. Personally I love the craziness of the Chaos Dreads. I use one as a long-range firing platform w/ TL Las/ML and I try to make sure it's as far away from my other units as possible. If I run a second one, I minimize it's shooting capability by using things like a Heavy Bolter arm. At least running two like this, it's a little more 'safe' as you'd have to get the proper 'crazed' result to have it do any real damage to your own troops. Ahh, the fun times watching one of my own dreads shoot another of my dreads in the back for a spectacular 'Vehicle Exploded' result. Too fun.

Well, I suggest to play a CSM MC army, with 2 DPs, 3 Dreads, and 3 Defilers.
Take some regular CS Marines in Rhinos. Should be fine.

Definately defiler, due to the sheer firepower. It's basically a walking Leman Russ if you're talking battle cannons.
Not to mention the fact that it looks cooler IMO, and is also plastic, which means it won't fall apart whenever anyone sneezes within a 12-mile radius.

Plus more options in the kit, and easier to convert.

Really the one thing the csm dread has going for it. Is that its an elite choise. Thats really about it.

I have never used one yet but I imagine in like a 2500 pt non apoc game I prolly would just cause my heavy and troops would already be full and our fast attack options are not really any better.

See the only thing that a dread has over a defiler is the difference in initiative, but i think that is worth the trade to not haveit shoot the gak out of your own stuff, if i want unreliable, or comedy, weps ill just use my orks least then it is genuinly funny.

Gloomy
the dread is an elites choice and slightly better in close combat. the defiler is probably the better unit all things considered.

I've heard you can make a pretty ugly list out of 2 demon princes 3 dreads and 3 defilers. Wouldnt know I've never done it or played against it but it seems like it could be good in certain situations. You just overload their anti tank capacity with so many targets.
AF

I know its an elite choice but its a waste with all the other elites a csm army can have, with the crazed rule it is just a waste imo. I respect others have a different opinion but i just cant see a point in the dread over the defiler, yes the combat of a dread is slightly better but i still cant see there worth in an army.

2 daemon princes 3 dreads and 3 defilers, hmmm against a mech army i could see it being risky, specially against a tau with a few hammerheads or broadsides would make a mess of that really quick, the deamon princes would cause havok in cc but its if they can survive long enough to get into combat, hmmmmm i dunno it all depends on the dice at the end of the day.

I dont think the dread is a good choice either, just to be clear. I only meant those are the only 2 things it has over the defiler. but the defiler is better.

with the armored target overload it's just an idea. I dont know if it works or not Ive never used it. I think its possible that you could end up delivering alot of that stuff. Defilers are big you can hide alot of things behind them.
AF

Definitely defiler is better, but dreadnought can be useful too. But i just hate when the dread once in a game is able to get to melee, he gots the fire frenzy >.< "hellfire" dread is good and cheap option also.

Only problem with defiler is that he gets shot out very soon usually. Everyone fears it and its easy to shoot down :/ Btw i have no idea why anyone should buy any weapons for defiler ever, since he cant shoot any other weapons if he uses battlecannon. Do you have any ideas?

Very true, walk a defiler at the front of your army and hope it takes a fair amount of shots before it dies or gets immobolised. a giant sheild, the dreads could do with being a bit more grrrrrrr to em.

I have no idea why anyone would buy the defiler a weapon either. when are you going to shoot the heavy bolter and not the battle cannon
what's a hellfire dread?

Hellfire is a slang name for a Dread with 2 ranged weapons giving up the DCCW.

As for the defiler vs. the dread.
Defiler, hands down. It is unique to the list. It isn't crazy which is annoying to make work for you. In addition it has either a battle cannon or a higher output in combat.

It appropriatly costs more.

After playing several games with my newly refurbished Malal Dreadnought, the Crazed rule is much more of a boon than a problem so long as you're playing the rule correctly. How the Fire Frenzy side of the rule works is "the Dreadnought may not move or Assault that turn. At the beginning of the Shooting phase it must pivot on the spot to the closest visable unit..."

So what counts as a visable target? As the Walker's rules do not grant exception to this, they see from their weapons like all other vehicles. They do add that the Dreadnought's weapons can swivel 45 degrees, in order to draw LoS. Yes, the Dreadnought looks through two 45 degree cones that extend from its arms. Normally Walkers get a free pivot before they fire, allowing you to get the weapons into LoS, but in this case you don't. You have to pick the target from what it can see, and only then pivot. Therefore it is impossible for the Dreadnought to hit things behind it, or to the side of it, when going on a Fire Frenzy.

I think the Dreadnought is extremely cost efficient because the threat of it killing your own units in 4th edition was so great (Walkers saw in 360 degrees, like infantry). However, with the new rules it is exceedingly rare. I do like Defilers over Dreadnoughts, but not by much and only if you ignore the issue with slots. All of our long ranged anti-tank comes from the Heavy Support slot, and the Defiler can't compete. The Dreadnought is cheaper with marginally lower output but doesn't take up a slot we care about (our Elites choices are rubbish compared to our Troops).

@DarkHound:
Sadly, not everyone follows that way of looking at the RAW.
Anyway, I agree with the rest, esp. about the troops .