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Hey all,
Im working on a new IG army that are kinda renegade but not all that chaosy. Anyhow I just got me a new Leman Russ and I was wondering which variant to build. As it stands Im not sure how to best field my tanks whether they should be used to blow the living snot out of the enemy armour or whether I should leave that to a load of lascannon wielding guardsmen...
So whats the best way to deal with the enemy; use my heavy weapon teams to take out armour or just use them in support with bolters and autocannons and let my own tanks hit enemy armour?

I figure that if my tanks are out tankhunting then Im gonna need some vanquishers and the likes just to show I do have some idea of what im rambling on about!!!

Anyhow thanks in advance for all your helpful advice,

Brother Boom

tanks are not good for taking out enemy tanks. Even when you MAKE them good (like a pasquisher), then they're so horrendously expensive, that you could afford to take more stuff with those points which will do better than the russ.

Russes come with cannons that splat infantry. Use them to splat infantry.

I generally use my tanks for infantry hunting (Generally the LRBT). The nice thing about the LRBT is that it can kill MEQ and down, as well as act as a decent anti-AV12 unit. It really depends on the situation at hand and what your opponent has got out on the table.
As far as Demolishers go I generally use them for infantry. Reason being is their shorter range, and when you're that close you want to take out anything in possible assaulting range first before any armor imo.
I haven't used any vanquishers yet, but it just seems that one shot at BS3 is kind of risky. There is no doubt it makes for great anti-tank, but I think you really have to take Pask to make one of those worth it. Otherwise bring them in mass.
Lascannons whether on infantry and tanks can only do so much. I think your most reliable option for anit-tank is melta, and you're going to need either vets, devildogs, or Stormtroopers for that. The problem with that is that devil dogs are going to be a giant target. Stormtroopers are expensive and die. And Vets require quick transport like the Valk, which somewhat pigeonholes you into making a vet-mech list, when you want to go gunline+tanks. Gotta love 5th ed. IG!

So I think your best be is massing Vanquishers (at least 2 squads). and a line of Infantry with ACs, MLs, and LCs. Your other heavy choices could probably be Manticore or LRBT.
Hope this is of any use!

Mostly anti infantry. vanquishers just dont do much at all for their points. Ah the days when they loaded HE and AP shells were fine ones indeed. heck the rules where pretty much any LM had ammo was nifty

Out of the Leman Russ variants I like the Leman Russ Executioner with its 3 Plasma Cannons it can put some hurt on heavy infantry who just lost their ride or deepstrikers. You can buy Plasma Cannon sponsons for 2 more shots but its pretty expensive.

The Demolisher is probably the second best variant although short ranged Strength 10 AP2 insta kills pesky nobs and thunderwolves. You can use it against a vehicle if there nothing else better to shoot at strength 10 ordiance is not to shabby for armor pen. It does suffer from one shot syndrome that its big template can scatter and do nothing.

The Standard Leman Russ Battle Tank is a decent all rounder. Has good range but is only Strength 8 so doesn't insta kill thunderwolves and doesn't nuke terminators. Not exactly great to shoot at tanks but strength 8 ordiinance isn't too bad vs transports.

Your best bet for anti tank is actually not tanks. The Vanquisher is actually pretty bad for the points. You only get 2 shots out of it assuming you buy the hull las cannon at bs3 unless you buy Pask for additional points.

For Anti Transport and anti light armor take the Vendetta Gunship It has 3 BS 3 TL Las cannons is really good at killing Rhinos and Chimeras and can outflank if you don't get first turn for some side shots on Chimeras or Predators.

For AV14 you going to need to take Manticores or Melta Guns. Manticores get D3 Strength 10 AP4 ordinance large templates and have the range to shoot Land Raiders or Russes from a distance. Manticores good vs both vehicles and infantry. Take your melta guns on Company Command Squad with 4 Meltas in a Chimera or Veterans with 3 Melta Guns in a Chimera. You can load your melta squads in Valkyries or Vendettas if you get first turn for the alpha strike but if you don't its generally not worth it as Valkyries get shot fast.

With the new Russ kit options, i'd go with the regular Battle cannon.
if you can, magnetize the sponsons and the hull weapons to give you the choice to mix and match.

Thanks for all the advice everyone, its much appreciated!

I was looking through my guard codex and noticed that the medusa can use bastion breacher shells. I checked the weapons profile and they seem like a pretty safe bet in being sure that the enemy tank is not going to cause any more problems...

So whats the general view on using a medusa with bastion breacher shells to bow up tanks???

Cheers again,

Brother Boom

Yeah, they're good, but they can't fire indirectly (so always shooting at front armor) and they don't ignore cover. Meanwhile, the manticore trades out +1D6 for +Str, +number of shots, and +hitting side armor and ignoring cover (while also being good against infantry hordes).

The only time I think I'd ever regularly field medusas over manticores is if I knew that my local environment was going to be chalk full of terminators and land raiders.

Kirika wrote:Out of the Leman Russ variants I like the Leman Russ Executioner with its 3 Plasma Cannons it can put some hurt on heavy infantry who just lost their ride or deepstrikers. You can buy Plasma Cannon sponsons for 2 more shots but its pretty expensive.

If you can't afford sponsons for the Executioner, I would consider the battle tank with sponsons first for the same cost. Drawbacks are that you lose rear AV11 and are slightly worse against Terminators (they save battlecannon wounds on 2+ instead of 3++). On the upside, you generate more hits (so better against everyone else), instakill Nobs/Nid Warriors/most characters, and are better against vehicles (although these are a tertiary target).

Ailaros wrote:Yeah, they're good, but they can't fire indirectly (so always shooting at front armor) and they don't ignore cover. Meanwhile, the manticore trades out +1D6 for +Str, +number of shots, and +hitting side armor and ignoring cover (while also being good against infantry hordes).

Are you really trying to say the Manticore is better for anti-tank? I'd have to say the only thing the Manticore has over the Medusa is sometimes being able to ignore cover. More often than not tanks are getting cover from smoke, which the Manticore can do nothing about anyway.

What the Medusa has is mobility and accuracy. Because it has no indirect fire, it is free to move 6" and still fire. It is more accurate than the Manticore, because even if only the edge of the template is touching a Rhino, the average penetration at half strength is a still 12. The tank has over 85% accuracy when firing at lightly armored targets, compared to the Manticore's 42%.

Then of course it is miles better at breaking heavy tanks. Why would you care about hitting side armor when your average penetration is 17? A large target like a Landraider or a Leman Russ gives you an acceptable scatter of about three inches, which gives both the Manticore and Medusa both a 66% accuracy. The Manticore has a 55% chance to penetrate, the Medusa has 89% chance to pen. The Medusa is a AP1. All in all, the Manticore has a 36% chance to make it to the damage table, while the Medusa sits pretty at 59%. In this scenario I'm ignoring both the Medusa's off chance of penetrating while at half strength (it adds about 1% to the outcome), and the chance the Manticore can get another template to land on the tank (it adds about 2%) because they are both incredibly unlikely.

Now, obviously the Manticore is better against nearly all infantry (save Terminators). So, if you are also concerned you won't have enough anti-infantry to take on hordes, take the middle road and grab a Manticore. It functions well enough against both. If you are really only concerned about tanks, especially larger ones, get a Medusa.

I've found the best middle ground is to just use the medusa for pretty cheap and dont give it the shells. it now retains its large blast to keep hordes and termies at bay while keeping an ordinance weapon at S10. the point difference and ability to take more than one in a slot is a really big seller. if you get to high enough of a point game, and you field 3 medusas in a unit, you might as well give one the BB shell.

DarkHound wrote: So, if you are also concerned you won't have enough anti-infantry to take on hordes, take the middle road and grab a Manticore. It functions well enough against both. If you are really only concerned about tanks, especially larger ones, get a Medusa.

Got to agree with DarkHound here, the Medusa Breacher is an incredible tool against any large tanks/skimmers. As an added bonus, the breacher shells add a foot of range for a very respectable 48", so you have a bit more room to breathe with the otherwise fragile tank. Medusae are the only artillery piece I would consider upgrading with an enclosed crew compartment (although now we're talking 155 points for the tank).