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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Dont like, dont buy it. Simple.

Actually not that simple at all.

How so?

I mean, why would someone who knows the book is bad value and contains far, far, far less than they expect buy this?

If you think its worth your money then buy it. If not, don't buy it.

How can it be more complex?

Stop it.

Your arguments failed in the other thread, don't start it over again here.

It didnt fail. For some reason you people think you are special and exempt from decision making?

From what I have seen your arguments generally boil down to 'if you don't like it don't buy it' and you then ignore anyone giving reasons why they might want to comment on something even though they don't buy it.

It's getting annoying.

 jonolikespie wrote:
From what I have seen your arguments generally boil down to 'if you don't like it don't buy it' and you then ignore anyone giving reasons why they might want to comment on something even though they don't buy it.

It's getting annoying.

Its also annoying to see people go "ïts not that simple", when in fact it is.

Are people addicted to this? Is there some dark entity forcing people to buy this? I dont understand, why anyone in their right mind would purchase something, or dedicate a huge portion of their time, to something they not happy with, then blame someone else for it.

It really is as simple, as not buying it if you arent happy with it.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
From what I have seen your arguments generally boil down to 'if you don't like it don't buy it' and you then ignore anyone giving reasons why they might want to comment on something even though they don't buy it.

It's getting annoying.

Its also annoying to see people go "ïts not that simple", when in fact it is.

Are people addicted to this? Is there some dark entity forcing people to buy this? I dont understand, why anyone in their right mind would purchase something, or dedicate a huge portion of their time, to something they not happy with, then blame someone else for it.

It really is as simple, as not buying it if you arent happy with it.

If it is so simple, why are you on a forum?
.
If it's "buy-it-or-leave-it" to you, there seems to be little purpose to visiting (and creating an account for) a website, which has (almost) no other purpose but to exchange opinions and thoughts about wargaming products.

I have it easy at work lately. When it gets busy I wont be on here. Dont worry im probably temporary.

But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"

I mean seriously. Thats stupid.

And so it begins, again....

Actually, never mind. Ninja'd

 Swastakowey wrote:
I have it easy at work lately. When it gets busy I wont be on here. Dont worry im probably temporary.

But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"

I mean seriously. Thats stupid.

The need to express one's opinion about a piece of plastic isn't anymore stupid than your need to express your opinion about people expressing their opinion about a piece of plastic.

Sorry, but you're only judging yourself there.

 Swastakowey wrote:


But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"

I mean seriously. Thats stupid.

Wrong.

There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.

If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.

I don't like the new release "strategy".

I've been in on the Storm Troopers since the 2nd Ed WD article giving hints for fielding them as a platoon/ army.

That was a WD article though. I am not paying £30 to have the rules to field them as an army, especially as I have this week's White Dwarf. I was going to advance order a couple of squads but I haven't even done that because I want to see the new full IG Codex first.

I will probably end up buying some Scions but only two boxes for a squad rather than more for an army.

At £21 for 5 IG figures I am finding them resistable. If they had been a 10 man box at £25, I would have had the beginnings of a new army by now.

As a die hard IG collector, GW should have been looking to hoover up my cash but the company's approach and pricing at the moment are preventing that.

 Moopy wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"

I mean seriously. Thats stupid.

Wrong.

There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.

If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.

Which book does that though? Only supplements do. But its pretty clear that supplements, well supplement the codex. just like the codex supplements the rule book.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

alphaecho wrote:
I don't like the new release "strategy".

I've been in on the Storm Troopers since the 2nd Ed WD article giving hints for fielding them as a platoon/ army.

That was a WD article though. I am not paying £30 to have the rules to field them as an army, especially as I have this week's White Dwarf. I was going to advance order a couple of squads but I haven't even done that because I want to see the new full IG Codex first.

I will probably end up buying some Scions but only two boxes for a squad rather than more for an army.

At £21 for 5 IG figures I am finding them resistable. If they had been a 10 man box at £25, I would have had the beginnings of a new army by now.

As a die hard IG collector, GW should have been looking to hoover up my cash but the company's approach and pricing at the moment are preventing that.

I agree. One squad is all thats worth getting. Especially with the white dwarf rules available.

 Moopy wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"

I mean seriously. Thats stupid.

Wrong.

There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.

If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.

Can you give an example of another time a codex has had a unit entry that says "See Codex: X for details"? I don't think it's ever happened before at all, let alone "many cases". Unless you're talking about supplements... which would be stupid, because they're supplements.

Isn't Crimson Slaugter a bit like that?

 Swastakowey wrote:
I have it easy at work lately. When it gets busy I wont be on here. Dont worry im probably temporary.

But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"

I mean seriously. Thats stupid.

Nobody is stupid enough to think they're actually being forced to do anything, when people talk about GW making us do something, it's saying they're making us do it to continue playing with up to date rules (which is how I think the majority of people play).

Sure, we can keep playing with old editions, but trying to organise a game is significantly harder if you don't just play the most up to date rules.

It's hardly stupid, as you say, to feel like you are being strongly compelled to buy something when you look at the reality of 40k gaming for most people.

Yep. I made a mistake. Supplements do that, basic Codexs do not. The caveat is "Do not so far." It will be very interesting to see if this changes in the new Imperial Guard codex.

However, it's far from stupid to want the a complete listing with no "See Codex XYZ" in bull ****, especially if you pay $50 for the thing. If you don't want it replacing the old codex, don't give the new codex all the options and just leave them out so it's different. If you think having less is fine, then you're well trained consumers.

 notprop wrote:
Isn't Crimson Slaugter a bit like that?

Yeah, it's a supplement though.

 Moopy wrote:
However, it's far from stupid to want the a complete listing with no "See Codex XYZ" in bull ****, especially if you $50 for the thing. If you don't want it replacing the old codex, don't give the new codex all the options and just leave them out so it's different. If you think having less is fine, then you're well trained consumers.

I doubt GW are going to do that with this codex. I wouldn't put it past them, but I seriously doubt it. Even the IK codex copy/pasted the rules for super heavies and D weapons.

I doubt we'll see "see codex XYZ for blah" on anything BUT a supplemental codex any time soon.

 Moopy wrote:
Yep. I made a mistake. Supplements do that, basic Codexs do not. The caveat is "Do not so far." It will be very interesting to see if this changes in the new Imperial Guard codex.

However, it's far from stupid to want the a complete listing with no "See Codex XYZ" in bull ****, especially if you pay $50 for the thing. If you don't want it replacing the old codex, don't give the new codex all the options and just leave them out so it's different. If you think having less is fine, then you're well trained consumers.

Totally fair, I agree with you. I don't think the Codex Supplements have been good value so far, and I wouldn't buy one, unless they did one for a sub-faction I was totally crazy about (can't really think of any examples...). It'd be a new, horrible development if this started to bleed through into the books billed as Codexes now (particularly the core ones we've had for decades, like IG).

 Bull0 wrote:

 Moopy wrote:
Yep. I made a mistake. Supplements do that, basic Codexs do not. The caveat is "Do not so far." It will be very interesting to see if this changes in the new Imperial Guard codex.

However, it's far from stupid to want the a complete listing with no "See Codex XYZ" in bull ****, especially if you pay $50 for the thing. If you don't want it replacing the old codex, don't give the new codex all the options and just leave them out so it's different. If you think having less is fine, then you're well trained consumers.

Totally fair, I agree with you. I don't think the Codex Supplements have been good value so far, and I wouldn't buy one, unless they did one for a sub-faction I was totally crazy about (can't really think of any examples...). It'd be a new, horrible development if this started to bleed through into the books billed as Codexes now (particularly the core ones we've had for decades, like IG).

Agreed. Not good for value unless you really want it.

But its not like its a bad thing they are releasing stuff like this though. Models wise its kind of like imperial Guard part 1. Which is really cool. And who knows, some one out there may have been waiting for an opportunity like this and is excited about it. To that person they might love it and pick one up.

Not for me though. Standard codex (well, real faction codices...) are all I will get for now. And im sure many people feel the same way.

It's definitely murkier than that, and I do think it could get worse before long because GW smell money - but that said, as it stands right now I can't say I personally have a huge problem with it or that it has affected me. I'm 100% the filthy casual though. I definitely see why it's a bigger problem for others.

Except it's not good when they do things like this and I'm priced out of the hobby that I've been in 1988. I'm certain that there are many others in my shoes.

That makes me furious. Not that I can't buy plastic soldiers, but that things that could have been shipped together are not. Instead they're being split into smaller and smaller and smaller pieces that you have to buy piecemeal. It means my limited funds get me even less every financial quarter that ticks by. The current marine codex is huge, so there's zero reason that these new sub-guard couldn't be part of the main IG codex, even if it meant raising the cost just a little to to accommodate the bigger size.

I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prediction: IG will be able to take Knights, and that's the first time we'll see a codex point to a supplement. I dearly hope it's not true, but that would be profitable and that's all that really matters now. Actually, I'm wrong and right now that I think about it. They're already doing it because they're covering themselves by saying "Imperial factions can take Knights". So they don't even need to put an entry into the codex because you'll need two books defacto.

 Bull0 wrote:

 Moopy wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"

I mean seriously. Thats stupid.

Wrong.

There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.

If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.

Can you give an example of another time a codex has had a unit entry that says "See Codex: X for details"? I don't think it's ever happened before at all, let alone "many cases". Unless you're talking about supplements... which would be stupid, because they're supplements.

The old Codex Armageddon had "See Codex: X" unit entries but I suppose that was technically a supplement, too.

 Moopy wrote:
Except it's not good when they do things like this and I'm priced out of the hobby that I've been in 1988. I'm certain that there are many others in my shoes.

That makes me furious. Not that I can't buy plastic soldiers, but that things that could have been shipped together are not. Instead they're being split into smaller and smaller and smaller pieces that you have to buy piecemeal. It means my limited funds get me even less every financial quarter that ticks by. The current marine codex is huge, so there's zero reason that these new sub-guard couldn't be part of it, even if it meant raising the guard codex just a little to to accommodate the bigger size.

I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prediction: IG will be able to take Knights, and that's the first time we'll see a codex point to a supplement. I dearly hope it's not true, but that would be profitable and that's all that really matters now.

If they do this. I will come back here and apologize. I mean seriously that would be oh so annoying.

It is the trend now to stretch things out more than they should. I mean movies are starting to be done in parts. Songs are sold individually (I think) and so on. I think GW is just following this trend.

But heaps of people must be loving it if they continue on the way they are.

 Moopy wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prediction: IG will be able to take Knights, and that's the first time we'll see a codex point to a supplement. I dearly hope it's not true, but that would be profitable and that's all that really matters now. Actually, I'm wrong and right now that I think about it. They're already doing it because they're covering themselves by saying "Imperial factions can take Knights". So they don't even need to put an entry into the codex because you'll need two books defacto.

Honestly I'm not that bothered if that happens - Knights are new, and they're also kind of crap in game terms. It's not the same as taking stuff *out* of the codex and monetizing it separately.

Besides which, if all you want are the Knight rules, they're available here for £2.49 http://www.blacklibrary.com/whitedwarf/white-dwarf-issue-4.html

 Swastakowey wrote:
But heaps of people must be loving it if they continue on the way they are.

Not necessarily. GW seems to be perfectly happy if introducing another $50 book gets one person to buy it, and one person to quit the game in frustration. The immediate sales keep their next financial report from being a disaster, while the long-term lost sales from the people who quit are an issue for someone else to deal with later.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
But heaps of people must be loving it if they continue on the way they are.

Not necessarily. GW seems to be perfectly happy if introducing another $50 book gets one person to buy it, and one person to quit the game in frustration. The immediate sales keep their next financial report from being a disaster, while the long-term lost sales from the people who quit are an issue for someone else to deal with later.

It's interesting that you read that as "Lots of customers must love this if GW are still doing it". Maybe that is what he meant but I read it more as "If GW continue on this self-destructive path their competitors will love it". Guess it could really be taken either way

 Bull0 wrote:

 Moopy wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"

I mean seriously. Thats stupid.

Wrong.

There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.

If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.

Can you give an example of another time a codex has had a unit entry that says "See Codex: X for details"? I don't think it's ever happened before at all, let alone "many cases". Unless you're talking about supplements... which would be stupid, because they're supplements.

All of the 3rd ed marine dexes and Armageddon referred you to the Space Marine Ork or Guard codex

 sonofruss wrote:

Spoiler:

 Bull0 wrote:

 Moopy wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"

I mean seriously. Thats stupid.

Wrong.

There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.

If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.

Can you give an example of another time a codex has had a unit entry that says "See Codex: X for details"? I don't think it's ever happened before at all, let alone "many cases". Unless you're talking about supplements... which would be stupid, because they're supplements.

All of the 3rd ed marine dexes and Armageddon referred you to the Space Marine Ork or Guard codex

Yeah, I know it's going to sound silly but I'm not talking about those - as I understand it they were priced appropriately, they were supplements in everything but name. The modern equivalent are the codex supplements.

 Bull0 wrote:
... they were supplements in everything but name.

Just like the Knight and Stormy books are supplements in everything but name (and price).