Switch Theme:

[Star Wars] Disney+ SW shows(spoilers) Tales of the Jedi trailer now up  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 Gert wrote:
The delivery is different. Witwer's version is more friendly "maybe but I don't want to talk about it" whereas McDiarmid's is dismissive "For god's sake just stop" with regards to Kenobi. It's the difference between someone who is still manipulating Vader with false hope and someone who is trying to get Vader to do his job hunting all the Jedi.

Sorry, its the same read to me. McDiarmid gargles more while doing the voice, but the emotion is the same.

Also what Lance said. It makes no sense. Kenobi is (publicly or privately) Bad Jedi #1. And he should also be all sorts of pissed that Vader didn't have that freighter destroyed (which would have been easy), to the point that 'summoned to Coruscant for an electrocution session' is in order, not telling him to chill.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/06/25 01:30:37


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Palpating is also none too keen to let Vader find out his kids are alive…


Palpatine doesn't know that. And he is less likely to find out the less of the people who do know that are alive. AND he was pretty cool with finding out Luke was alive in ESB.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Palpating is also none too keen to let Vader find out his kids are alive…


Was it ever made clear that Palpatine is even aware that Luke and Leia are his kids? If Palpatine knew then he would have already kidnapped Luke under Vader's nose to train him as Vader's replacement. So I really doubt that's anywhere near close a realistic motivation for Palpatine to cock block Vader from pursuing Kenobi.
   
Made in us
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






 Grimskul wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Palpating is also none too keen to let Vader find out his kids are alive…


Was it ever made clear that Palpatine is even aware that Luke and Leia are his kids? If Palpatine knew then he would have already kidnapped Luke under Vader's nose to train him as Vader's replacement. So I really doubt that's anywhere near close a realistic motivation for Palpatine to cock block Vader from pursuing Kenobi.


I don’t think he knew they were twins (I don’t think even Padmé knew about that?)

It’s an odd one. Anakin’s child isn’t only likely to be strong in the force, but be part of Padmé remaining. Given Vader is surprisingly fragile as a personality? It may be a risk he just didn’t want to take.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Palpating is also none too keen to let Vader find out his kids are alive…


Was it ever made clear that Palpatine is even aware that Luke and Leia are his kids? If Palpatine knew then he would have already kidnapped Luke under Vader's nose to train him as Vader's replacement. So I really doubt that's anywhere near close a realistic motivation for Palpatine to cock block Vader from pursuing Kenobi.


I don’t think he knew they were twins (I don’t think even Padmé knew about that?)

It’s an odd one. Anakin’s child isn’t only likely to be strong in the force, but be part of Padmé remaining. Given Vader is surprisingly fragile as a personality? It may be a risk he just didn’t want to take.


What risk is there? Palpatine was able to clearly demonstrate his superiority over Vader in the canon comic over here:

https://comicbook.com/starwars/news/star-wars-vader-palpatine-duel-giant-monsters-comic-spoilers/

The chances of Vader going rogue even if he found out is very low, part of the reason why he worked out as an ideal apprentice during the time of the Empire was that he literally didn't have anyone left except his identity as Palpatine's apprentice. His wife and friends were either dead or in exile, and even in the Imperial military, he had no real allies. Tarkin respected him but basically just had a working relationship with him. He certainly made no friends with the officer corps or Moffs that he killed with relative impunity. Palpatine was basically the only reason why he got a free pass on what he did. So worst case scenario, Palpatine would eliminate him or put him in his place.

Palpatine has shown no qualms over replacing old pawns with new ones, (he literally had both Maul and Dooku in quick succession) especially when Luke has no knowledge of his lineage and Vader doesn't have any idea of his children surviving until after a New Hope. He could have easily trained him in secret ala Starkiller until he believed Luke was powerful enough to challenge Vader or if he honestly just felt that Vader had served his purpose and ended him personally.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/25 02:59:58


 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Going by Comics, Vader goes anti-Palpatine the moment he discovers Luke is his kid. Still works for him and does what he says, but is working/desiring behind his back to recruit Luke to his side and have them replace the old guy.

 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 AduroT wrote:
Going by Comics, Vader goes anti-Palpatine the moment he discovers Luke is his kid. Still works for him and does what he says, but is working/desiring behind his back to recruit Luke to his side and have them replace the old guy.


Right, which is par for the course for any Sith master-apprentice relationship anyways, its literally how the rule of 2 works. What my point was is that if Palpatine knew Luke existed as Vaders son, there would be no reason for him not to have taken him for his own rather than leaving him as a potential thing for Vader to find and join forces to usurp him.
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

 Grimskul wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
Going by Comics, Vader goes anti-Palpatine the moment he discovers Luke is his kid. Still works for him and does what he says, but is working/desiring behind his back to recruit Luke to his side and have them replace the old guy.


Right, which is par for the course for any Sith master-apprentice relationship anyways, its literally how the rule of 2 works. What my point was is that if Palpatine knew Luke existed as Vaders son, there would be no reason for him not to have taken him for his own rather than leaving him as a potential thing for Vader to find and join forces to usurp him.


see, i kind of interpret the Vader/Reva fight in this light, specifically the part where he throws her back a lightsaber. sure, it might just be a bit of cathartic angre release for him, but it could also be a bit of "ok, then, lets see if you have what it takes".

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
afrika Korps 1,500pts Watch Company Rho 1000pts
 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






 AduroT wrote:
Going by Comics, Vader goes anti-Palpatine the moment he discovers Luke is his kid. Still works for him and does what he says, but is working/desiring behind his back to recruit Luke to his side and have them replace the old guy.


Which is great. But whats important for the scene in Obi Wan is what would the Emperor do? IF the emperor knew that Vaders kids were out there AND he knew that Wanted Jedi #1 Obi Wan was being tracked by Vader would Palapatine be like "Hey Vader. Why not just chill out man?" or would he be all "Go. Kill him. Do not fail me a second a time."

In the case of Obi Wan. Why wouldn't Palpatine want Obi Wan dead?

In the case of Vaders kids, how did Palpatine respond in the OT?





Again, Palpatine telling Vader to chill out is incredibly out of character. It's just a thing they shoe horned in so that episode 4 can happen.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/25 11:41:31



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Never Forget Isstvan!






 Lance845 wrote:
This is only an acceptable explanation if 1) Palatine for some reason didn't want or didn't care if Obi Wan was found (and he clearly wants all the Jedi found because he made the damn inquisitors to go do that exact thing with those inquisitors answering to Vader.) and 2) Palatine didn't want to stoke Vader's anger (Which he spent 2 movies and 4 seasons of the clone wars doing non stop to fuel his fall to the dark side and teach him how to harness it as a source of power. So why tell him to calm down now?)

I's actually just out of character for Palpatine to not send Vader and the Inquisitors to pursue Obi Wan.

1 - Yeah sure, Palpatine wants all the Jedi hunted down eventually but Vader has a tendency to focus on his old master rather than the many other Jedi out there. Vader is still doing his job hunting down the Jedi but he keeps fixating on one at the expense of others and keeps tasking the Inquisitors to run down leads on Kenobi alone as soon as one pops up.
2 - What happens when Vader catches Kenobi? One of the things that keeps Vader's hatred alive, possibly the greatest thing, is gone, how does Palpatine keep Vader hateful? The man who "betrayed" Vader and turned his wife against him, leading to the death of his child is gone, so who does Vader turn his anger on? How about the master who tortured, degraded, and tried to kill him? TBF that's just a personal theory but it's plausible IMO.
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






 Gert wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
This is only an acceptable explanation if 1) Palatine for some reason didn't want or didn't care if Obi Wan was found (and he clearly wants all the Jedi found because he made the damn inquisitors to go do that exact thing with those inquisitors answering to Vader.) and 2) Palatine didn't want to stoke Vader's anger (Which he spent 2 movies and 4 seasons of the clone wars doing non stop to fuel his fall to the dark side and teach him how to harness it as a source of power. So why tell him to calm down now?)

I's actually just out of character for Palpatine to not send Vader and the Inquisitors to pursue Obi Wan.

1 - Yeah sure, Palpatine wants all the Jedi hunted down eventually but Vader has a tendency to focus on his old master rather than the many other Jedi out there. Vader is still doing his job hunting down the Jedi but he keeps fixating on one at the expense of others and keeps tasking the Inquisitors to run down leads on Kenobi alone as soon as one pops up.


Did... you watch the show? The entire first 2 episodes is about 3rd sister obsessively chasing Obi Wan and the Grand Inquisitor and others, including Vader admonishing her for it up until the point where it actually worked. The only time Vader fixated on Obi Wan was when he was actually in front of him. Letting him escape is ACTUALLY a problem that goes against the entire organization of the inquisitors. There was no point, ever, durring this show where the pursuit of Obi Wan happened at the expense of finding other Jedi.

2 - What happens when Vader catches Kenobi? One of the things that keeps Vader's hatred alive, possibly the greatest thing, is gone, how does Palpatine keep Vader hateful? The man who "betrayed" Vader and turned his wife against him, leading to the death of his child is gone, so who does Vader turn his anger on? How about the master who tortured, degraded, and tried to kill him? TBF that's just a personal theory but it's plausible IMO.


If thats your take away you should go watch Episodes 5 and 6. They both take place after Obi Wan had died and the Emperor doesn't seem too fussed about it.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Never Forget Isstvan!






 Lance845 wrote:
Did... you watch the show? The entire first 2 episodes is about 3rd sister obsessively chasing Obi Wan and the Grand Inquisitor and others, including Vader admonishing her for it up until the point where it actually worked. The only time Vader fixated on Obi Wan was when he was actually in front of him. Letting him escape is ACTUALLY a problem that goes against the entire organization of the inquisitors. There was no point, ever, durring this show where the pursuit of Obi Wan happened at the expense of finding other Jedi.

And Vader was playing Reva the whole time so none of his reactions can be considered truthful. But even during the deception of Reva, Vader was very much still trying to get Kenobi.

If thats your take away you should go watch Episodes 5 and 6. They both take place after Obi Wan had died and the Emperor doesn't seem too fussed about it.

And Vader has a new obsession in the form of Luke, who the Emperor sees as a powerful tool, one that he will use to replace Vader. Did you not watch 5 and 6?
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






 Gert wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
Did... you watch the show? The entire first 2 episodes is about 3rd sister obsessively chasing Obi Wan and the Grand Inquisitor and others, including Vader admonishing her for it up until the point where it actually worked. The only time Vader fixated on Obi Wan was when he was actually in front of him. Letting him escape is ACTUALLY a problem that goes against the entire organization of the inquisitors. There was no point, ever, durring this show where the pursuit of Obi Wan happened at the expense of finding other Jedi.

And Vader was playing Reva the whole time so none of his reactions can be considered truthful. But even during the deception of Reva, Vader was very much still trying to get Kenobi.


Sure. At the expense of what? What Jedi did they not get because they were chasing Obi instead? Your argument was that Palpatine didn't want Vader to chase Obi because other Jedi were getting away. What other Jedi?

If thats your take away you should go watch Episodes 5 and 6. They both take place after Obi Wan had died and the Emperor doesn't seem too fussed about it.

And Vader has a new obsession in the form of Luke, who the Emperor sees as a powerful tool, one that he will use to replace Vader. Did you not watch 5 and 6?


Your statement is that Palpatine wouldn't want Vader to kill Obi Wan because that would create an issue of his apprentice losing anger or faith or whatever. Episode 4. Obi Dies. Episode 5. Not an issue.


What you are doing is the you making up stuff to fill in the blanks to try and retroactively make this crap make sense. It's fine. It's just normal bad Starwars writing. It just doesn't make sense. It's an out of character action because we need Vader to not be looking for Obi Wan for episode 4 to happen.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/25 13:26:40



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Never Forget Isstvan!






 Lance845 wrote:
Sure. At the expense of what? What Jedi did they not get because they were chasing Obi instead? Your argument was that Palpatine didn't want Vader to chase Obi because other Jedi were getting away. What other Jedi?

At the time of Kenobi? I don't know how many Jedi but it's enough that by Rebels the Inquisitorius is still around and they need Jedi like Ahsoka to "help" them find more. There were a heck of a lot of Jedi kicking about and those Jedi can still train more. If the premier Jedi hunter is still looking for one guy, and it's only the lesser ones going after the rest that creates a problem. For Vader, the day job is hunting Jedi but the ultimate goal is finding his old master for revenge. When he gets close, he gets blinkered and his emotions take over because the Dark Side feeds those emotions. It's right there in the Sith Code:
Peace is a lie. There is only Passion.
Through Passion, I gain Strength.
Through Strength, I gain Power.
Through Power, I gain Victory.
Through Victory my chains are Broken.
The Force shall free me.

So when your top "employee" isn't actually doing his job you reprimand him and threaten to replace him. Even if we ignore my theory about Vader losing his hatred and passion, Vader lost Kenobi at the end of the series and doesn't know where he is anymore. The Emperor wants Vader to do his job of hunting all of the Jedi, not just Kenobi. There are other Jedi out there who are easier to find, and Palpatine needs results not just the obsessions of his apprentice.

Your statement is that Palpatine wouldn't want Vader to kill Obi Wan because that would create an issue of his apprentice losing anger or faith or whatever. Episode 4. Obi Dies. Episode 5. Not an issue.

What you are doing is the you making up stuff to fill in the blanks to try and retroactively make this crap make sense. It's fine. It's just normal bad Starwars writing. It just doesn't make sense. It's an out of character action because we need Vader to not be looking for Obi Wan for episode 4 to happen.

Its not an issue at the end of ANH because Vader has a new obsession in Luke Skywalker. A skilled young pilot who is strong with the force and was first encountered as a tag-along with Kenobi? Why wouldn't Vader be interested compared to whoever else is out there? Vader hunts the Alliance because it will lead him to Skywalker. The Emperor finds out and sees an opportunity to get a new apprentice, one who might be more powerful than Vader and who doesn't have any baggage.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/25 13:44:14


 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Sure. At the expense of what? What Jedi did they not get because they were chasing Obi instead? Your argument was that Palpatine didn't want Vader to chase Obi because other Jedi were getting away. What other Jedi?


How about that whole ship full of underground rebels that have been aiding multiple Jedi escape that Vader let get away just to go after one obvious decoy bait? Where the GI was like shouldn’t we go after those dudes first and Vader just nah, I only care about Kenobi.

 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






 AduroT wrote:
Sure. At the expense of what? What Jedi did they not get because they were chasing Obi instead? Your argument was that Palpatine didn't want Vader to chase Obi because other Jedi were getting away. What other Jedi?


How about that whole ship full of underground rebels that have been aiding multiple Jedi escape that Vader let get away just to go after one obvious decoy bait? Where the GI was like shouldn’t we go after those dudes first and Vader just nah, I only care about Kenobi.


Vader had an entire star destroyer pursuing a vessel 100th it's size with no weapons. That for some reason, didn't deploy it's tie fighters to cripple it or use it's tractor beam to lock it in place and pull it into the hanger (Classic Starwars forgetting all about all the things it can do because plot). Vaders specific job there is to get the Jedi over the little boat of mostly nobodies that should have been captured/destroyed with no issues. But you know, the Empire cannot be shown to be competent in any capacity at any time.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





 Gert wrote:

2 - What happens when Vader catches Kenobi? One of the things that keeps Vader's hatred alive, possibly the greatest thing, is gone, how does Palpatine keep Vader hateful? The man who "betrayed" Vader and turned his wife against him, leading to the death of his child is gone, so who does Vader turn his anger on? How about the master who tortured, degraded, and tried to kill him? TBF that's just a personal theory but it's plausible IMO.


Himself. The one thing vader hates most in whole galaxy is vader.

2022 painted/bought: 587/638 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Finished to see it yesterday, it's IMHO the worst Star Wars instalment in history. Even worse than Solo or The Rise of Skywalker.

Why on Earth did Obi-Wan spare Darth Vader? AGAIN!! Doesn't he learn from his mistakes?

Mini Leia is the most obnoxious character in the entire SW universe. Jar Jar deserved an oscar in comparison. Ewan McGregor and his Obi-Wan were ok, but the plot was super boring and they basically ruined two iconic characters (Leia, Darth Vader) for no reason.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/25 17:55:42


 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Huh. Mini Leia seemed fine to me. If anything she was an under-used piece of luggage.

Biggest issue is there wasn't a story to tell here, and everyone went back to their starting positions, with minor changes that don't fit their first appearance and will never be addressed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/25 18:15:40


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






That is….the first criticism of IckLeia I’ve read.

The actress is 10 years old, and not only owned her somewhat limited role, but was convincingly not just the child of Anakin and Padmé, but the great woman she is destined to become.

Sassy. Confident. Perhaps in need of those little lessons life provides on the way to maturity. But she isLeia. 100%.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight



Cadia

 Blackie wrote:
Finished to see it yesterday, it's IMHO the worst Star Wars instalment in history. Even worse than Solo or The Rise of Skywalker.


That seems a bit hyperbolic given the fact that it's not even the worst Star Wars show in the past year. Can you honestly tell me this was worse than that awful Boba Fett show?

Why on Earth did Obi-Wan spare Darth Vader? AGAIN!! Doesn't he learn from his mistakes?


I really don't understand why people have so much trouble grasping the concept of character flaws and emotions getting in the way of rational decisions.

THE PLANET BROKE BEFORE THE GUARD! 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




CadianSgtBob wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
Finished to see it yesterday, it's IMHO the worst Star Wars instalment in history. Even worse than Solo or The Rise of Skywalker.


That seems a bit hyperbolic given the fact that it's not even the worst Star Wars show in the past year. Can you honestly tell me this was worse than that awful Boba Fett show?


Honestly, I'll say that, yeah. This doesn't go anywhere or have anything to say. This is just people you know wandering from their starting mark and back.
Boba wasn't good by any measure, and wasted a lot of time on nothing, but there were interesting character moments, pieces of a larger universe and potential stories branching out from it.
Its premise was dumb, and ending on 'why did I want this anyway?' seemed like a mockery of the entire endeavor, but there were goals and desires and emotions that made some sense to some of the characters at the time.

Kenobi walked some action figures around.
Why on Earth did Obi-Wan spare Darth Vader? AGAIN!! Doesn't he learn from his mistakes?

I really don't understand why people have so much trouble grasping the concept of character flaws and emotions getting in the way of rational decisions.

Because it wasn't flaws or emotions. Vader tells him that HE (Vader himself) killed Anakin, Obi-wan visibly accepts that as true, and just leaves.
If his emotional connection to Anakin exists _at all_, putting this monstrous, tormented shell out of his friend out of his misery and torment is objectively the right thing to do.
If his emotional connection doesn't exist, putting this terror and murderer of innocents out of everyone else's misery is objectively the right thing to do.
If he's a redemptive kind of person, trying to capture and help this tormented, broken person is the right thing to do.

For the show to put him in this situation and then just walk away? That's just... fethed up beyond words. Whatever kind of person Obi-wan is, this was a wrong choice. The storytelling was just broken.

For the scope of this show as a halfway mark in the larger narrative, this confrontation should never have happened. Vader should _never_ have been called in (and Leia shouldn't really have been involved- the rando Jedi could have been used to bait out Kenobi, instead of making him seem like a heartless scumbag), it should have been Reva's obsession alone. That's the story that could have had some meat on it, instead they took a 'revenge'/'redemption' (I have opinions on both those, but they aren't relevant) story and made a wet fart out of it because they wanted to focus on the characters people remember instead.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2022/06/26 16:44:49


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in ca
Krazed Killa Kan




Monarchy of TBD

 Lance845 wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
Sure. At the expense of what? What Jedi did they not get because they were chasing Obi instead? Your argument was that Palpatine didn't want Vader to chase Obi because other Jedi were getting away. What other Jedi?


How about that whole ship full of underground rebels that have been aiding multiple Jedi escape that Vader let get away just to go after one obvious decoy bait? Where the GI was like shouldn’t we go after those dudes first and Vader just nah, I only care about Kenobi.


Vader had an entire star destroyer pursuing a vessel 100th it's size with no weapons. That for some reason, didn't deploy it's tie fighters to cripple it or use it's tractor beam to lock it in place and pull it into the hanger (Classic Starwars forgetting all about all the things it can do because plot). Vaders specific job there is to get the Jedi over the little boat of mostly nobodies that should have been captured/destroyed with no issues. But you know, the Empire cannot be shown to be competent in any capacity at any time.


Or, you know, go off in his Lambda shuttle to duel Obiwan, and let the GI follow the rebels, rather than.... sitting in space doing nothing. Or use a few TIE fighters to patrol the area above where the rebels are attempting to escape. There was this very, very strangely individual hands on approach to the whole escapade. You can tell it was made by the folks responsible for the Last Jedi's ground assault, where we stop going after the Rebel Base to fight one old Jedi, rather than the guys responsible for Empire, where the assault took place while multiple Star Destroyers blockaded the planet with fighter support.

Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.

 
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

I aggree that this series suffered form "Horus heresy syndrome"/"prequel-itis", in that we already KNOW how most of the major characters are going to end up. Of the cast on this show, the only ones whose fate actually hung in the balance were Reva, Fake-Jedi, Imperial Traitor Lady (who had the decency to die), and maybe the grand inquistor and Rebel Leader Dude. For pretty much everyone else, we already know they survive and dont die, so that really puts a cramp on a lot of potential drama.



personally, i would have preffered if, at the end of the fight between kenobi and vader, at the point where he just walks off, instead the Grand Inquistor and some stormtroopers arrive, and force kenobi to withdraw, or extract vader. It would be a better ending, still allow kenobi to "win", and avoid this.....inexplicable way they actually chose to end it. i genuinely dont understand why they didn't do that.

i mean, the fact we are all debating and disagreeing on why kenobi did what he did, is kind of a sign that his actions dont make much sense, and/or his motovations were not properly explained.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
afrika Korps 1,500pts Watch Company Rho 1000pts
 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

Had plenty of fun moments and I'll never turn down more SW content.

Suffered badly by what a needle to thread the choice of time period was. Flawed but entertaining.

Dramatic pause to see if Luke was ok was the most unintentionally hilarious moment of the year for me so far

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in gb
Never Forget Isstvan!






Anyone remember RotJ where Luke doesn't kill a disarmed and helpess Vader? Or when Anakin has a moment of crisis when Palpatine orders him to kill a a disarmed Dooku and Anakin literally says "Its not the Jedi way"?
Food for thought...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/25 22:10:28


 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 Gert wrote:
Anyone remember RotJ where Luke doesn't kill a disarmed and helpess Vader? Or when Anakin has a moment of crisis when Palpatine orders him to kill a a disarmed Dooku and Anakin literally says "Its not the Jedi way"?
Food for thought...


Do you? Those were crisis moments shaped by the entire scope of the story up to that point. (and the second one was temptation towards Anakin's fall, and fulfilled later, so really does not demonstrate your point well at all.)

This one had none of that. Instead it emphasized why he _should_ be stopped (causal murder, brutality, child murder), and put the characters in a decision point that this story literally could not answer. You can not put the meaning and depth of Luke's decision at the end of the trilogy in a prequel ten years before we meet Luke. It isn't functional, even if you want to disregard what happens later, and the writers didn't want to.

Especially not in the hands of Obi-wan, whose New Hope decision is a) suiciding out to enlightenment and most importantly, b) the mentor passing the torch to the next generation. Its a trope, but that is Obi-wan's role in Star Wars. His was never going to be the hand that ended it, so writing a story with that confrontation and giving him the option and motivation to do so is complete gibberish.

You can't have this confrontation here. It doesn't work from narrative or character perspective. The ship escape at the end of episode five was the proper ending for what little story we had (barring basically the same epilogue). Vader lost them, Reva slinks off without having to learn that random murder attempts on children is bad (because she already knows that), Obi-wan drops Leia off on Alderran with her souvenir, and cleans up his cave. The first half of episode six was one of the worst ideas in the history of Star Wars: its completely unnecessary, shows almost everyone off as incompetent and just screws everything up.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/25 22:32:59


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

CadianSgtBob wrote:


Can you honestly tell me this was worse than that awful Boba Fett show?



Absolutely! Although it was nothing exceptional I liked The Book of Boba Fett. I can't save a single moment of Obi-Wan Kenobi though, the whole series was bland. Of course it's just a personal opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That is….the first criticism of IckLeia I’ve read.

The actress is 10 years old, and not only owned her somewhat limited role, but was convincingly not just the child of Anakin and Padmé, but the great woman she is destined to become.

Sassy. Confident. Perhaps in need of those little lessons life provides on the way to maturity. But she isLeia. 100%.


Of course the actress was fine, I'm not blaming a kid. She did well for someone her age. I'm blaming the writers. And "hero that seeks redemption + child" adventure was already the main feature of The Mandalorian.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/26 07:48:39


 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Gert wrote:
Anyone remember RotJ where Luke doesn't kill a disarmed and helpess Vader? Or when Anakin has a moment of crisis when Palpatine orders him to kill a a disarmed Dooku and Anakin literally says "Its not the Jedi way"?
Food for thought...



shhh! those are completely differant and how dare you expect Obi-wan Kenobi, the man whose picture appers beside the dictionary definition of jedi to act like... A JEDI

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






BrianDavion wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Anyone remember RotJ where Luke doesn't kill a disarmed and helpess Vader? Or when Anakin has a moment of crisis when Palpatine orders him to kill a a disarmed Dooku and Anakin literally says "Its not the Jedi way"?
Food for thought...



shhh! those are completely differant and how dare you expect Obi-wan Kenobi, the man whose picture appers beside the dictionary definition of jedi to act like... A JEDI


That's just it, isn't it? Inaction and shirking responsibility are not the Jedi way. The scenario presented is that Obi Wan has the choice between killing an incapacitated opponent, which is not the Jedi way, or walking away knowing full well Vader is going to commit further atrocities, which is also not the Jedi way.

When it comes down to it the entire confrontation is just careless writing:

- Since it's obviously not possible to neatly kill Vader in combat, Obi Wan can't be let off the hook the same way he dealt with Darth Maul and General Grievous.
- He doesn't have the institutional backing to bring in Vader and let a court handle him from there, especially since his list of allies is so low that in trying to do so he might expose Luke and Leia.
- He can't kill Vader for obvious continuity reasons, but he also can't kill an incapacitated opponent because it's not something an exemplary Jedi can do, except... just let me get back to this later.
- He walks away, but he shouldn't because he has the ability to save countless innocent lives and he does nothing.

The problem is that putting Obi Wan in this situation doesn't allow him to come out clean. There is no good choice here. The show narrows it down to two options: Obi Wan can be a loathsome murderer or he can be a loathsome coward. It opts for the latter. Neither option is in accordance with what we are told of the Jedi, but the one where Vader ends up dead has consistent precedent in the prequels. Both Yoda and Obi Wan set out to assassinate Palpi and Anakin respectively, with the intent to kill. Because as terrible a choice as it is to make, the alternatives are worse. Mace very emphatically argues for the immediate execution of Palpi because again, the alternatives are worse. Jedi aren't above loading up on personal guilt if it serves the greater good. They may be principled, but not to the point where they let those principles override every other consideration.

Unless the writers specifically wanted to make Obi Wan look bad, there's no good reason to put him into this position.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
 
Forum Index » Geek Media
Go to: