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Hello I'm new to the forums here and I was looking for some help with my eldar army. I play Orks and space wolves quite a bit at my LGS so as you can imagine close combat is hard to avoid.(fast skimmers aside) I was looking at doing something like putting Asurman with one 10 man squad of DA's and then a exarch with another, but I am fearful of not having a psyker. I have a couple options other than this such as Avatar and a wraithlord or 2 but I'm not sure how to put an army together and play to counter close combat. Any advice would be awesome thanks!

Oh also Nob squads and Thunderwolf cavalry are a big part of my problems.

You could use Banshees or Scorpions, which are designed specifically for CC. Putting DA's in transports removes the one thing they are specialised for: ranged attacks. Wraithlords would work but be careful that they do not succumb to Wraithsight. Put a couple of flamers on their arms: 2 templates killing Orks on 4+ with no save!

Hello and welcome to dakka.

You're right to be worried about not having a psyker as farseers can help you greatly in combat, if you want to focus on winning one particular combat you can doom the enemy squad and fortune yours which can really help.

Of the pheonix lords, i'd reccomend getting Jain Zar or Karandras (each with a 10 strong squad of their corresponding aspect) if you have CC in mind.

Jain Zar has 5 S7 power weapon attacks on the charge, and these are at I8 and her banshee mask can potentially reduce the enemy's WS to 1, she also has counter attack (which is passed on to her unit) which is useful if you get charged. Not only that but she has an assualt3 S5 AP2 weapon too. Doom is best used with her squad of banshees, as their main disadvantage of killiness is their S3, which means you'll be wounding on 5s against the units you mentioned, with re-rolls this makes this much easier.

Karandras has 7 power fist attacks (S8) which is capable of squishing most of any squads of TWC or nobz, or if you need him to strike first he can use his chainsword for 7 S5 attacks. His unit can also get to the enemy without being threatened by shooting due to their infiltrate rule.

Avatars are also good too, as they're hard to kill and are very killy in return, they also give fearless to nearby units and are immune to melta weapons, something the opponent may depend on for taking out monstrous creatures. Wraithlords perhaps slightly top avatars as they're stronger and can carry heavy weaponry, (an EML wouild be good for both SW and orks) and flamers (which id reccomend as they are good for killing orks) and shruiken catapaults but they have less attacks and no fearless bubble and no ward save. This makes them quite vunerable to powerfists and the like, so mind war is a good psychic to have as it can be used to eliminate that power fist model and allow your wraithlord to charge a unit and only be wounded on 6s, or not at all!

Onto normal squads, as you will be playing both orks and SW i'd take both a unit of howling banshees and scorpions in your army. Banshees are good at eliminating MEQs as they have power weapons but should not really charge an enemy that hasn't been doomed. Scorpions are best for killing orks, as they have plenty of attacks at a reasonably high stregnth, and a good armour save too, made even better if they are fortuned.

Thank you very much! I just aquired a ten man squad of scorpions and karandras, along with harlequins and a wraithlord. So I'm hoping these will help me out a bit, thanks again for the good advice!

Another thing to think about:

The best way to win CC with Eldar is by only striking when YOU want to strike. Stay in control, and you shouldn't have any trouble. I can't count the number of time's I've disrupted my Eldar opponent when an assault failed to go the way he expected (usually due to terrible dice).

Just my 2 cents.

Karandras is too expensive, scorpions do too little damage for their cost, and with T3, even a 3+ save won't take you far.

Banshees aren't tough enough to survive out of a wave serpent, and wave serpents are horrible tanks to try to assault out of.

The only CC answers for Eldar are jetbike seer councils (too reliant on psychic tests, IMO) and harlequins, who are good against elite units, but die horribly against Guard Blobs or Ork mobs.

Get Storm Guardians.

8 points a piece, one base attack (one bonus for CCW/pistol), dies like a guardsman, no power weapon option for the unit, no assault or anti-vehicle grenades...

Trust me, I use storm guardians frequently, and while they are fairly decent as a flamer-unit-of-doom, they suck badly in CC.

Valkyrie wrote:You could use Banshees or Scorpions, which are designed specifically for CC. Putting DA's in transports removes the one thing they are specialised for: ranged attacks. Wraithlords would work but be careful that they do not succumb to Wraithsight. Put a couple of flamers on their arms: 2 templates killing Orks on 4+ with no save!

, DAs without a serpents is as good as dead...As Wildstyle said, Eldar does not have any really good CC options since we have no way of delivering them efficiently (besides on Jetbikes, but then you must have Fortune up 24/7)

willydstyle wrote:...scorpions do too little damage for their cost, and with T3, even a 3+ save won't take you far.

Gotta disagree with willydstyle here. Scorpions are great at taking out Orks and IG. They are not good at taking out Marines, compared to Banshees.

Banshees with a Farseer casting Doom, however, kick bum at killing anything T4, Marines and Orks alike. Overall, I'd say Banshees are your best bet to begin with, TheVoidDragon. I also say this because Banshees are the easier to use of the two, as long as you remember:

Banshees aren't tough enough to survive out of a wave serpent, and wave serpents are horrible tanks to try to assault out of.

...which is certainly true. However, Serpents are fine for defensive counter-charging. They're not as good for taking the fight to enemy lines, where they get hatch-blocked easily. But around your own lines they're a lot better than fielding counterchargers on foot. Think of them as a mobile pillbox to put things in to survive until their next turn, when they will bail out and kill stuff.

The only CC answers for Eldar are jetbike seer councils (too reliant on psychic tests, IMO) and harlequins, who are good against elite units, but die horribly against Guard Blobs or Ork mobs.

Strongly disagree. While the Jetseer council is potent, it has a serious weakness too: its cost. Enemies that can tie it up indefinitely (Orks) or ping it to death (IG, Sisters, heck even vanilla Marines) can indeed deal with it for a lower outlay of resources (points and game focus) than the Council will reap. It can overconcentrate your force against a numerous opponent, like Orks. Sure, you can be super nasty somewhere really vital... but meanwhile the Orks are swarming the other 4 objectives.Eldar units are extremely focused in purpose, so it's hard to find a jack-of-all-trades.

Void Dragon, start simple and try out Banshees in a Serpent with a Doomseer nearby as your countercharge unit. This is assuming you play fairly shooty: If you want to get aggressive and fighty, follow Eldar Own's advice and go with a unit of each. Learn how to use each unit, and which suits your style of play better. Then specialize in whatever you're good at.


Oooooor play all mech and avoid the CC issue altogether in 4 out of 5 games . Orks hate it.


As for Dire Avengers: one unit of DA's with PW/SS and Defend can indeed help you hold objectives well, and be more survivable than other options in CC. But don't rely upon them for CC offense. They'll suck, even with Asurmen around. They just don't hit hard at all. Trust me, I tried it out for months.

And finally, Phoenix Lords: There are plenty of thread on which one is best and what they're good at. A summary: they're not as good as equivalent numbers of basic troops plus a Seer with either Fortune or Doom. Use 'em for fun, not to win games.

Slugga Boyz kill 33% more worth of scorpions than Scorpions kill Boyz even if the Scorpions gets the charge, so no, Scorpions are NOT good at dealing with hordes.

Eldar Own wrote:Jain Zar has 5 S7 power weapon attacks on the charge, and these are at I8 and her banshee mask can potentially reduce the enemy's WS to 1....

actually jain zar strikes at I11 on charge thanks to mask and Fc bonus

Devastator wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:Jain Zar has 5 S7 power weapon attacks on the charge, and these are at I8 and her banshee mask can potentially reduce the enemy's WS to 1....

actually jain zar strikes at I11 on charge thanks to mask and Fc bonus

Actually she does not, she strikes at I 10 just like all the normal Banshees

furius charge gives her 1+ in I combined to mask its I11

I caps at 10 just as strenght et. al.

no it dont
quete the rule then

Devastator wrote:no it dont
quete the rule then

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2030054_40k_Rulebook_Oct_2008.pdf

Your very much welcome dear.

nothing about 10 cap
fail

Devastator wrote:nothing about 10 cap
fail

Maybe you should actually try reading it?

Q. Can a ramming vehicle’s Strength go above
10?
A. No, only a vehicle’s armour value makes
exception to the ‘Maximum 10’ rule for
characteristics.

that has NOTHING to do with inative

Do you understand English?
A. No, only a vehicle’s armour value makes
exception to the ‘Maximum 10’ rule for
characteristics.

Is initiative not part of a models charateristics?

tedurur wrote:Do you understand English?

are you calling me a slow now?

Since when does understanding english define whether or not you are a slow?
Seeing how you obviously didnt understand the simple sentence I posted I had to ask. It would be rather futile to argue with someone who doesnt understand what you are typing, dont you agree?

No characteristic can go above ten. Only armour values. I10 is the max. Stop arguing.

Actually, attacks can exceede 10, but I think that was in an FAQ about Chaos' Bloodfeeder (which adds 2d6 attacks to a base 4 model, so going over 10 is frequent). The rule is on page 6 of the main rulebook.