Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As discussed else where, I'm putting together a shooty ork army, amongs whose units will include 9 zzap guns. Now, I'm not posting to ask the wisdom of this design, but rather for recommendations on what importance the additional crewmen will have for these artillary units. Each unit of one to three is allowed six additional grot crewmen, as well as a runtherd. How necessary are these guys to the survivability of the outfit? I ask, because it seems wastful to include extras that will add nothing to victory.

Grots don't cost much. I'd paint them up to have them in case you wanted to use them.

better pump them up to the max!

Zzap guns have a tendency to fry the man.

Although props for running a unit I have never seen used! Its always battlewagons for heavy support here

Right right right. Good point, burad. But perhaps I should include my army list. Here it is:

Army List: Big Mek Spat’s Craps “Shooters” Ork Gunline

HQ 1: Big Mek, Shokk Attack Gun, Ammo Runt (with Troop 1)
HQ 2: Big Mek, Shokk Attack Gun, Ammo Runt (with Troop 2)

Elite 1: 13 Lootas
Elite 2: 13 Lootas
Elite 3: 13 Lootas

Troop 1: 19 Grots, 1 Runtherd (includes HQ 1)
Troop 2: 19 Grots, 1 Runtherd (includes HQ 2)
Troop 4: 23 Shootaboys, Nob, Power Klaw
Troop 5: 23 Shootaboys, Nob, Power Klaw
Troop 6: 23 Shootaboys, Nob, Power Klaw

Fast 1: 1 Deffkopta, Twin-Linked Rokkits

Heavy 1: 3 Zzap Guns, 6 Additional Grots, 1 Runtherd, 3 Ammo Runts
Heavy 2: 3 Zzap Guns, 6 Additional Grots, 1 Runtherd, 3 Ammo Runts
Heavy 3: 3 Zzap Guns, 6 Additional Grots, 1 Runtherd, 3 Ammo Runts



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Although props for running a unit I have never seen used!

Thank you, sir. Let's see what happens. My theme is redundancy.

Hmm yes very interesting. In a dakka list I usually expect killa kan spam and 30 shoota boy mobz.

I got the battlewagons, but they didn't hold up well against the imperial guards tanks. Poor boys.

So, could the artillery hold up to any assault, even if maxed out with crew and runtherds?

thunderingjove wrote:I got the battlewagons, but they didn't hold up well against the imperial guards tanks. Poor boys.

So, could the artillery hold up to any assault, even if maxed out with crew and runtherds?

Assault as in assault phrase? they'd be chewed to bits. 10 man assault marine squad could knock out up to 10 to shooting assuming 10 assault 1 weapons (no flamers or hand flamers)

then they would throw down so many attacks for charging

But this is where your other guns come in. whittle than 10 man down to 5 and you have a fair chance of at least surviving

There would be a maximum total of 12 grots, 1 runt herd in earch unit, seeing as every gun comes with two grots to being with.

But this is where your other guns come in. whittle than 10 man down to 5 and you have a fair chance of at least surviving

Suvival's the goal. I'm going to have to math-hammer this one out. The thing is, at 1850, where you want full squads of lootas and boys, every point counts....

You know, I'm a little surprise not to have gotten more grief from you all for my interest in zap guns. Very well behaved.

thunderingjove wrote:You know, I'm a little surprise not to have gotten more grief from you all for my interest in zap guns. Very well behaved.

Well its different I guess. Without the autohit land raider buster from the previous book most people just dont like having 50% chance of doing nothing and then a good chance of doing the same or worse damage than that of lootas

Its fun though. I really like Big Zzappas mounted on gun trukks but most people wouldnt let me use them

Gun trukks? You mean on battlewagons, right? My problem with those is your allowed only one with an ork shooting, and not shooting well, as opposed to my plot of having nine with grots and ammo runts galore.

Or wait -- do you mean you try and play special rules with your friends and they don't allow it?

thunderingjove wrote:Gun trukks? You mean on battlewagons, right? My problem with those is your allowed only one with an ork shooting, and not shooting well, as opposed to my plot of having nine with grots and ammo runts galore.

Or wait -- do you mean you try and play special rules with your friends and they don't allow it?

Forge World rules. They had a nifty idea. Take your trukk, AND MOUNT A BIG GUN ON IT! sure it takes a HS slot but its fun to zoom around with up to 5 trukks per squad laying down a bunch of zzap or kannon attacks

How legit are those? And can you post me the link?

thunderingjove wrote:How legit are those? And can you post me the link?

IA 8

while fluffwise many dont like it, theres a lot of things that really fit in for orks such as Big Trakks (imagine a looted wagon that doesnt suck too hard) and Mega Dreads (giant stomping machines of doom!)

I really love the Forgeworld Ork stuff.

I actually thought about taking Kannons when I started collecting Orks because of how effective they are with Ammo Runts and how little Ork Heavy Support matters in a straight-up horde list. Eventually they got changed into Tankbustas and I've been loving it, but I've always wondered about the road not taken.

I'd actually like to find out what Big Guns do in lower points games. You get a lot more saturation of fire from Big Guns then you do from Lootas at under 1.5k because of the lower buy-in. Use a couple Big Guns as a speed bump for a Boomgun Wagon and you've got a whole lot of firepower for under 350 points.

"Speed bump?" What do you mean?

When you fail a "Don't Press That!" roll, the Wagon can't move through friendly models. I can't remember if failing the roll still keeps it from firing (I think it does), but it keeps it moderately safe even if it can't fire. Just surround it with grots.

Right right right right. "Don't press that!" How could I've forgotten?

But what do you think about my zzap gun barrage?

I don't like Zzap Guns because they are more likely to be less effective than any of the other options. Given that you're already dealing with a lower BS, I wouldn't want to risk it.

Look at me getting off the original topic of the post! Seeing as you've thought about the artillery option, what do you think the appropriate crew size, would you include runtherds, etc?

I forget, can big gunz take ammo runts? It would probably be worth the points adding some of those in, so you can maximize the results you get from a high damage roll.

I've never seen anyone using zapp guns, let alone nine of them, but with 3 different strength rolls per turn you have a fairly good chance of at least one coming out decent.

I've used a single battery of 3 zapps with 1 extra crewman each and the ammo runtz in a lot of battles. I usually stuff my shokk attack gun mek with the unit. The SAG can fire at a different target than the artillery because of the artillery rules.

But, I've never had the zapp battery do anything useful myself since the new codex came out. THe times I've had a good vehicle target to shoot with them I always roll strength 4.

3 batteries might be better. You could save the price of the grot squads and beef up your lootas or shoota boyz and plant your meks with two of the batteries. For the most part the zapps get ignored since they aren't overly dangerous, until you drop a SAG round on a squad of termis or the like then you'll get lots of attention!
Because of the way hits get randomized between the gunz and the crew, if they are in cover, they are actually relatively durable. Lascannons have a goo chance of just frying a grot, and small arms will have a lot of fire just bounce off the gunz. Heavy Bolters and the like are the real danger to the squad.

Greenskinned Grit and Vikings v Mafia,

Thanks for the analysis. What I like most about is, is that you say exactly what I wanted to hear!