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Seems like nobody likes lictors lately.

I personally believe it's that everyone is used to how they used to play and nobody has adapted to them yet.

I am not looking for an elite spot competition answer...but why do people think they are worthless?

They're not, they help reserves come in n_n

And also, they stop the scatter of deep striking units, I found that to be useful.

They only help reserves come in after they hit the table.


Also there are plenty of other exceptional elite choices so why would you go with the one that has sub-par abilities.

ductvader wrote:I am not looking for an elite spot competition answer...

Dont you have to be on the table a full turn to use the help DS ability?

you'll get shot to bitz by then. rather fill up on 1 zoan squad and 2 hive guard squads

The answer is exactly what you told us not to tell you.

What do Lictors bring to the table? It can hit things in the back field. That is its designated role, and it performs it admirably. Pheromone Trail is sort of useless.

Now, when building a strong army you have to be able to fight anything you come up against. After picking your HQ and Troop slots, you have your anti-infantry covered basically up to 1500. What you need is reliable anti-transport, and where is the only slot you get that from?

Lictors are great, they just don't fit into a balanced Tyranid list.

It's just kind of funny that Tyranid players tend to think of their Elite slot as a Heavy slot.

ductvader wrote:It's just kind of funny that Tyranid players tend to think of their Elite slot as a Heavy slot.

The "funny" part about that is not on list designers, it's on codex designers. Even so, what do they bring that other elites cannot do better? Anti-tank? no. Anti-infantry? no. Anti horde? no. DS suprise? no. +1 reserves? sort of--but HQs do that more reliably and with less drawbacks and even so is not needed.

Really, what is it that makes this confusing?

That is what I find confusing. . .post FAQ DoM in a spod is generally better than Lictors.

Bear in mind I like Lictors.

Everything everyone else said but what I don't like is that 3 wounds doesn't help at all when you're only T4 and everyone's got a fist

DarkHound wrote:The answer is exactly what you told us not to tell you.

What do Lictors bring to the table? It can hit things in the back field. That is its designated role, and it performs it admirably. Pheromone Trail is sort of useless.

Now, when building a strong army you have to be able to fight anything you come up against. After picking your HQ and Troop slots, you have your anti-infantry covered basically up to 1500. What you need is reliable anti-transport, and where is the only slot you get that from?

Lictors are great, they just don't fit into a balanced Tyranid list.

Its better to pick Ymagarl genestealers because the are the new/better lictors. Lictors only bring pheromone trail to the table and thats useless anyway. Ymagarl genestealers can attack right away (fleet) and choose to pick an extra Attack, Strenght or toughness. you can use these powers to effect the close combat outcome to be "sure" that you can kill the enemies unit in his assault phase.

If you got an elite slot left (i doubt it) then i would pick a unit of these.

as you guys may know im still new(ish) to all this but was looking at a nids codex and liked the look of the lictors but now with what you lot are saying i`m nt to sure

Get up, come on get down with the Lictor
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me
Get up, come on get down with the Lictor
You mother get up come on get down with the Lictor
You fether get up come on get down with the Lictor
Madness is the gift, that has been given to me!

The Lictor Model looks cool, but other than that, they got nothing. Now I like the Cthulhu Stealers though. The whole Mutate every turn ability is just win.

If Lictors could assault the turn they come into play, I'd consider them not totally worthless.

Now if only there was another elite squad in the tyranid codex which can appear behind enemy and assault.

Oh wait, there is one.
For around the cost of 2 lictors (at least 1 should die before even getting into combat) you can get 6 ymgarls. Charge in with 24 WS6 S4 rending attacks at I6 or 18 S5 rending attacks at I6, without getting shot even once.

Immobile basilisk (the only kind) at the side of a forest? They do an average 4 penetrates for only 6 genestealers. Lictors shoot maybe average 0.66 penetrates and 0.33 glances (at least 5-6 times worse damage.)

Broadside suits in cover? Seen Ymgarls slaughter them. (A lictor would've just been insta-gibbed dead without doing anything.)

I think lictors are in general, just a handicap. Zoanthropes are far more powerful and survivable and actually damaging (whereas lictors are weak, die easy, and don't pose armor much threat.) They lack the 3+ invulnerable save, medium-range super shooting. And are just so-so at actually getting to ever assault.
Ymgarls do the job lictors were supposed to do except better in every way.

Lictors can't compete for elite slots against:
Ymgarls (able to assault without getting shot.)
Zoans (blow up landraiders, kill entire squads of marines.)
Doom (can DS and obliterate 8-10 marines in one shot.)
Hive Guard (better shooting and survivability and can snipe.)

Yeah, I like Lictors, but I like the other elite options more... a shame, as they're so fluffy.

ductvader wrote:Seems like nobody likes lictors lately.

I personally believe it's that everyone is used to how they used to play and nobody has adapted to them yet.

I am not looking for an elite spot competition answer...but why do people think they are worthless?

Why wouldnt you accept that as a legit reason?

There are several reasons why theyu do not recive any love from me, and I have tryed them a little bit.

They seem quite good on paper but they are not that amazing. Shure 3 wounds, laods of attacks, rending, frag greades and a shooting attack and a +2 save in cover what is not to like?

First in many situations when a lictor would be good, Ygmar genestealers are just better and act 1 turn sooner (charging longs fangs or dakka tanks for instance) The ygmars also help with the psycolodical effect by being paranoid about them.

Second the lictors need terain to be good. If your oponent realises this and stands out in the open there is very little the lictors can do after they charge the oponent.

And 3rd they are in the slot where all your cheap AT is.

Lictors could be viable in lager games with loads of deepstrike. 3 venom cannon harpies, 3 poded carnifexes, 2 dakka hive tyrants, some warriors. In those sitiations they would be very good and shine in that list, but I doubt the list would be all that good.

Same with pyovores. If you look at the pyovore it seems amasing! Flamer, pover weapon, does not care about synapse etc. But all in all for your army/list to work you can't take them. The AT in the tyranid list is very bottle necked.


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ductvader wrote:Seems like nobody likes lictors lately.

I personally believe it's that everyone is used to how they used to play and nobody has adapted to them yet.

I am not looking for an elite spot competition answer...but why do people think they are worthless?

People think them worthless compared to the ygmar. But the reason none are using them and they get no love is the elite spot competition answer you are not looking for. Right now poeple go 2 slost with eather zoanthropes or hiveguard, and the last one is eather doom in a pod or ygmars. If there was a 4rth slot then perhaps they would use lictors instead of ygmars in it.

Perhaps they get some love in apocalypse or in planetstrike.

Niiai wrote:Same with pyovores. If you look at the pyovore it seems amasing! Flamer, pover weapon, does not care about synapse etc. But all in all for your army/list to work you can't take them. The AT in the tyranid list is very bottle necked.

Pyrovore? Amazing on paper?

Pyrovore is a total joke, probably only surpassed by the space pope


The problem is as stated that it competes with hive guard for the elite slot (and to a lesser extent zoans/ymgarls) If it was in any other slot, it would probably see much more gametime.

It's mainly because they lost the suprise assault that they had in the last codex. They took a brilliant unit for taking out those gunlines, or atleast making people think about moving around or away from cover. And turned it into a one turn distraction. As the Lictor pops up, and in the enemies turn as many units are needed turn round and shoot it down before it can do anything.

If it was tougher, this would ofcourse be useful. But T4 with 3 Wounds . . . that's not really a good unit to soak up shots with . . .

Oshova

It's mainly because they lost the suprise assault that they had in the last codex. They took a brilliant unit for taking out those gunlines, or atleast making people think about moving around or away from cover.

Anyone who thinks that either never used the old lictor in 5ed or is thinking about it from pure theory hammer land. With the way combat works in 5ed there's no way a single lictor can 'take out' a gunline. They lost their ability to clip units and clear the killzone and thus became pointless. The lack of fleet was huge as well and the dangerous terrain test when they arrived was just insult to injury. The ability to assault when it arrived was just a red herring -- and frankly ymgarl pull the 'screw up a gunline' roll better then the old lictor ever did.

The new lictor is improved, despite not being able to assault when it arrives. Fleet, shooting attack, extra wound, squad instead of a gimped single model? Sure it lost some stuff but in my opinion it gained quite a bit more and all for 15 points cheaper (people forget the 'uber' 4ed lictor was 80 flipping points). And in an assault army that lacks frag grenade equivilents? Lictors are a breath of fresh air.

The issue with lictors imo has been stated -- its hard to justify taking them when anti-tank options are hard to come by outside of the elite slot.

All that said, I think they have a place in the reserve style, 3x trygon, focus on a flank list. You just have to concede you won't always open up tanks outside of assaulting (and rely on S5/6 shooting and/or ymgarl assaults to atleast supress the nearby vehicles for a turn).

I think the problem with the Tyranid Codex is the "ooh Shiny factor". Everything is good, but good becomes bad when everything else is great.

The pyrovore is good, but compare him to something great that takes the exact same slot and he becomes pseudo terrible. Until you bug players get things like flashgits in terms of overpriced and bad, I am revoking your "complain about your codex" license...

Lictors need to have at least some of the army built around them. They need spore mines to clear space for their deployment options and they need Mawloc's to take advantage of their scatter proof abilities. These aren't the flavor people choose to play right now.

QuietOrkmi wrote:The pyrovore is good, but compare him to something great that takes the exact same slot and he becomes pseudo terrible.

It's a close quarters assaulty creature with one attack--at initiative 1. Flamer. . . ok. Pyrovore good? Not so much.

Also an issue with Lictors is Deathleaper.

It is simply better for about the (point) cost of 2 Lictors.

I like Lictors, but would not field one anymore. Other than occationally using the one I converted to Deathleaper.

good point above re Apocalypse - there you can have as many Elite slots as you like, so a few (or many) Lictors could be rather good value.

kirsanth wrote:It's a close quarters assaulty creature with one attack--at initiative 1. Flamer. . . ok. Pyrovore good? Not so much.

I also hear that for every wound I deal to it, I take a wound. I also hear that at T6, S4 needs a 6 and a 3+ armor save negates 1/3 of those wounds. I also hear that when they die, they explode.

It is not an assaulty critter that is meant to wipe units like a Carnifex. It is a mobile flamer tank with multiple wounds, that can fight back, cannot die instantly with a single stray rokkit.

Like I said, It is a good critter but when you compare it to something awesome, it becomes pseudo terrible.

The deathleaper reduces LD... Psykers with LD 7 are terrible... think about it.

Lictors are bad because other elite choices like Hive Guard and Zoanthropes are so good since you need the anti tank in the mech 5th edition. The only Lictor worth running is Deathleaper because of his ability to pop up anywhere and d3 reduction to leadership on a librarian so he is worse at casting powers and hooding your tervigons and zoanthropes.
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