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Chopstick wrote: Went back and check the page, yes Orlock ganger can't take Heavy or Special weapon. RAW Escher and Goliath ganger can but they probably shouldn't.
Why?
Because special weapons are 'special', hence the name.
That doesn't answer the question.
Why shouldn't they take them?
You never played previous Necromunda or any 40k?
2018/02/18 23:37:51
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
Sidstyler wrote: Okay I thought the face was sculpted with huge lips for some reason, it looks way more reasonable with a better paintjob. Still not great, but you know...not that, anyway.
So, I haven't bought any of the cards yet for any of the gangs, are they really necessary if you play with the Gang War rules? It sounds like the cards might not even be accurate anymore based on the current line of discussion, or am I misunderstanding?
No, you don't need the cards. The Gang Tactics cards give new content to the game, some like it, some don't. They're similar to the Special Play cards in Blood Bowlm but less 'optional' (you can still decide if you want to use them or not). It is enough for one player to have the cards and you can both draw or choose from the same deck if you wish. If you draw a house-specific card, just discard it and draw again. The fighter cards is just a ploy by GW to sell more models, they can easily be skipped (just allow fighters to swap weapons, problems solved). I just use the gang roster with additional columns for the new stats.
As always in 40k, you have a category of 'standard' weapons which are typically unlimited, and then you have a more exclusive set of 'special' weapons which are more specialized and limited. A standard weapon may be a lasgun, an autogun or a boltgun. In 40k, you will typically have this kind of weapon on all grunts in a squad. Most units have the possibility to take one or two special weapons however. These can be meltas, flamers, plasmas and other more costly, rarer options. These are highly valuable. Necromunda consists of cheap street thugs fighting each other. Not exactly the kind of crew you would expect to spam special weapons. Even in a squad of space marines where everyone has a bolter, you will just find one or two special weapons. Why would a gang in Necromunda be better equipped? It just doesn't make sense. Not with the fluff, not with the 20+ years GW rules tradition.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/18 23:45:38
2018/02/19 01:38:20
Subject: Re:Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
Baxx wrote: As always in 40k, you have a category of 'standard' weapons which are typically unlimited, and then you have a more exclusive set of 'special' weapons which are more specialized and limited. A standard weapon may be a lasgun, an autogun or a boltgun. In 40k, you will typically have this kind of weapon on all grunts in a squad. Most units have the possibility to take one or two special weapons however. These can be meltas, flamers, plasmas and other more costly, rarer options. These are highly valuable. Necromunda consists of cheap street thugs fighting each other. Not exactly the kind of crew you would expect to spam special weapons. Even in a squad of space marines where everyone has a bolter, you will just find one or two special weapons. Why would a gang in Necromunda be better equipped? It just doesn't make sense. Not with the fluff, not with the 20+ years GW rules tradition.
Because they can afford it.
Special weapons are handed in squads in limited numbers both due to supply and doctrinal reasons. But in the Underhive who gives a gak? Might makes right, and money makes you mightier.
Add to that that most special weapons are overkill. You want an entire gang armed with Meltaguns? Plasma Guns? What's the point? There are cheaper and/or more reliable weapons available.
This is a non-issue.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 01:38:47
Special weapons are handed in squads in limited numbers both due to supply and doctrinal reasons. But in the Underhive who gives a gak? Might makes right, and money makes you mightier.
Add to that that most special weapons are overkill. You want an entire gang armed with Meltaguns? Plasma Guns? What's the point? There are cheaper and/or more reliable weapons available.
This is a non-issue.
Special weapons also need more training to use, so sure a powerful gang could buy all the special weapons but if no one knows how to use and maintain them what's the point? They just sit in your stash collecting dust!
Special weapons are handed in squads in limited numbers both due to supply and doctrinal reasons. But in the Underhive who gives a gak? Might makes right, and money makes you mightier.
Add to that that most special weapons are overkill. You want an entire gang armed with Meltaguns? Plasma Guns? What's the point? There are cheaper and/or more reliable weapons available.
This is a non-issue.
Special weapons also need more training to use, so sure a powerful gang could buy all the special weapons but if no one knows how to use and maintain them what's the point? They just sit in your stash collecting dust!
If i'm not mistaken that was solved in the old rules with very high ammo checks like 6+ meaning those weapons would quickly become unusable in a given match just to reflect the rarity of ammo of the technical requirements of maintenance.
2018/02/19 03:08:38
Subject: Re:Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
If i'm not mistaken that was solved in the old rules with very high ammo checks like 6+ meaning those weapons would quickly become unusable in a given match just to reflect the rarity of ammo of the technical requirements of maintenance.
That and only heavies, leaders and any gang member who rolled "specalist" on the techno table were able to take them
GW did not try not sell the old Sly Marbo model just before the new one was offered for sale. Does this mean that we are not going to have a new Mad Donna model? That would be a VERY sad affair. She is an iconic character that deserves a new model like Sly Marbo.
@Grot 6:
Is the female bounty hunter a conversion or a non GW figure? Never seen that one in the 90s.
The figure I posted a pic of was a rare back in the glory days of Necromunda. Aside from the figure snobs here, she's as effective now as she was then. Her name is Bonnie Annerson, they did this model as a nod to the old school movie Barb Wire, with a well endowed unnamed Bounty Hunter with a first name of Pamela, and the second name of Anderson. It's that little thing about the hotshot sniper lasgun and hellfire pistol ( when no one else had one.) SHe's a RARE as gak figure, as well. I have been trying to get her ever since she came out, back in like 94-96 timeframe. Here is the web throwback info on the figure. ( And if anyone has one, I am still willing to pay top dollar on this one!!! ) Want to talk about Holy Grails? THIS one is mine.
A real serious question, though- WHY are there such crappy paint jobs on those old models, when in the Outrider book, and in the Necromunda Magazine, there were some top drawer paint jobs on both Kal Jericho, and on Mad Donna. THESE photos that are shown, if someone from GW is posting those, they need to be straight up fired. THOSE paint jobs are NOT the models for the studio.
WHY are they bullshiting so much over at GW on Necromunda, as well? We got all 6 gangs in 2 months, and the game was strong with the follow ons. WHY are they doling the gangs out drip drip drip? We have top drawer scenery, top drawer sculpts, and the throwback figures, which should be flying off of the shelves, whoever is the Project Manager on the game- THEY as well, need to be fired.
Locally, we are pulling out the archives and playing old school, until they get their stuff together. Hopefully we can get a few more players to bite at 35 dollar gang boxes... o.O The Whole whopping 2 of them...
Special weapons are handed in squads in limited numbers both due to supply and doctrinal reasons. But in the Underhive who gives a gak? Might makes right, and money makes you mightier.
Add to that that most special weapons are overkill. You want an entire gang armed with Meltaguns? Plasma Guns? What's the point? There are cheaper and/or more reliable weapons available.
This is a non-issue.
Special weapons also need more training to use, so sure a powerful gang could buy all the special weapons but if no one knows how to use and maintain them what's the point? They just sit in your stash collecting dust!
If i'm not mistaken that was solved in the old rules with very high ammo checks like 6+ meaning those weapons would quickly become unusable in a given match just to reflect the rarity of ammo of the technical requirements of maintenance.
Yeah, and don't be next to that guy when you end up failing that roll.. That template was lethal if you got hit in the blast on a walkway, or in cover. A second and third point, There was a Heavy roll for a skill that could ignore the ammo checks, and there were some skills to improve the ammo rolls and shoot 2 or 3 times, so it also paid to have the weapon, pin it to a specialist, and tool him up. Usually, I would give the heavy a special weapon to begin with, after two or three times of getting stuck in on jobs, they would fill out. Either skills, or stats... 200 creds goes a long way, fast.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/02/19 12:59:13
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2018/02/19 13:28:30
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
Having just read Junktion - interested to see what they come up with
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
kansia wrote: On Gang war 2 there are no rules for the hired gun model with the spear, but there are for a bounty hunter called Yar Umbra armed with an scoped laser rifle
The rules are in the box with them.
2018/02/19 14:29:51
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
Elbows wrote: Unlimited or restricted special weapons would definitely ruin the game...
The ellipses makes me think you might be being sarcastic, but if not...
I think some weapon restrictions would be a really good idea. Without them every gang ultimately becomes a clone build spammed-out with the most optimal choices (which, for the moment, are boltguns, plasmaguns and grenade launchers).
Like someone said, there's nothing worse than an optimized Necromunda gang. But it's also hard to expect any player to choose the clearly-lesser of two options as an upgrade.
There are several solutions I'd be happy with -- limiting special weapons types to ~2 per gang, or bumping the rarity every time a copy of a weapon is purchased, or replacing rarity altogether by rolling on a chart to see what weapons are available (although I suppose it's too late for this).
2018/02/19 15:40:45
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
Adding an upkeep charge for weapons could also be quite an easy way to make spamming fancy stuff less desirable.
Same for additional members of the gang to stop them ballooning up to being huge.
I've not really looked into the campaign system much yet (not bothering until the full trade post) so maybe the bloat is kept in check in some other way.
Wow, those are some seriously bad miniatures. Really awful sculpts and badly done paint job...
I hope they are not still claiming that "best fantasy miniatures in the world" thing
Careful now, people, that say that 25 year old models are better, might hear you
I would like some Mordheim come to the "to order" though... Imagine how many boxes of Carnival of Chaos can GW sell!
I already have Mad D so no need to re-order - model looks fine to me in real life.
Mordheim - could always do with some more Sisters of Sigmar and some of the Special Characters....
However I want more models based on the awesome new interior art
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Wow, those are some seriously bad miniatures. Really awful sculpts and badly done paint job...
I hope they are not still claiming that "best fantasy miniatures in the world" thing
Careful now, people, that say that 25 year old models are better, might hear you
I would like some Mordheim come to the "to order" though... Imagine how many boxes of Carnival of Chaos can GW sell!
I already have Mad D so no need to re-order - model looks fine to me in real life.
Mordheim - could always do with some more Sisters of Sigmar and some of the Special Characters....
However I want more models based on the awesome new interior art
Do you mean all the guilds and men for hire stuff from the presentations shown a couple of weeks back? If so, I completely agree! These concept arts blew me away, they look very 40k and rather new.
2018/02/19 16:52:06
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
I have a mad donna, the paint job on the old GW studio model does it no favours. It's much better in real life.
I order Kal and scabs. I have the old ltd edition black libaray Kal, holding his sword over his head, which i think is actually a worse mini. They are a classic pair but i think the scale change for the new mini's will be the biggest issue.
it's the quiet ones you have to look out for. Their the ones that change the world, the loud ones just take the credit for it.
2018/02/19 17:34:44
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
If i'm not mistaken that was solved in the old rules with very high ammo checks like 6+ meaning those weapons would quickly become unusable in a given match just to reflect the rarity of ammo of the technical requirements of maintenance.
That and only heavies, leaders and any gang member who rolled "specalist" on the techno table were able to take them
If you want to spam special weapons in the future then take a Van Saar gang. Everyone of these guys can roll on the techno table in order to become a specialist.
GW did not try not sell the old Sly Marbo model just before the new one was offered for sale. Does this mean that we are not going to have a new Mad Donna model? That would be a VERY sad affair. She is an iconic character that deserves a new model like Sly Marbo.
@Grot 6:
Is the female bounty hunter a conversion or a non GW figure? Never seen that one in the 90s.
The figure I posted a pic of was a rare back in the glory days of Necromunda. Aside from the figure snobs here, she's as effective now as she was then. Her name is Bonnie Annerson, they did this model as a nod to the old school movie Barb Wire, with a well endowed unnamed Bounty Hunter with a first name of Pamela, and the second name of Anderson. It's that little thing about the hotshot sniper lasgun and hellfire pistol ( when no one else had one.) SHe's a RARE as gak figure, as well. I have been trying to get her ever since she came out, back in like 94-96 timeframe. Here is the web throwback info on the figure. ( And if anyone has one, I am still willing to pay top dollar on this one!!! ) Want to talk about Holy Grails? THIS one is mine.
Thanks for the info. Barb Wire? I have the movie on DVD. Campy but fun nonetheless. Well, despite her impressive two arguments and gorgeous hair I couldn´t make the connection because people with hockey or leather masks wield normally chainsaws or large knives...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 17:59:25
WHY are they bullshiting so much over at GW on Necromunda, as well? We got all 6 gangs in 2 months, and the game was strong with the follow ons. WHY are they doling the gangs out drip drip drip? We have top drawer scenery, top drawer sculpts, and the throwback figures, which should be flying off of the shelves, whoever is the Project Manager on the game- THEY as well, need to be fired.
Ok... the production of minis would have to be placed in between all the 'big games' miniatures. Specialist games resurrection is still verymuch in it's infancy, it's under the auspices of Forgeworld, but also is relying on plastics releases, so it's resin extensions would need to find sculpting and release schedule between FWs other releases and it's major plastics releases and boxed sets would need the same against AoS and 40k... I think the specialist games 'team' is like 3 people in the corner of FW's studio.
It's not even remotely realistic for you to suggest they release at the same rate as they had previously when the Citadel team (considerably larger in those days) downed tools on all other projects to work on one SG at a time.
And you're calling for the firing of Andy Hoare, who's not only the only person to have written about 40k in all four major incarnations (40k, BL, FFG & FW), created perhaps the best Imperial Armour of all in IA13 and constantly worked to bring in Rogue Trader/oldschool themes and, have met and played a game against the bloke, is likely one of the nicest and most chilled human beings on the planet.
GW really should increase it's creative team sizes and production capacity, both really great signs of their increased profits and success, but calling for someone to lose their job because you don't have access to all the toys at once is ridiculous.
WHY are they bullshiting so much over at GW on Necromunda, as well? We got all 6 gangs in 2 months, and the game was strong with the follow ons. WHY are they doling the gangs out drip drip drip? We have top drawer scenery, top drawer sculpts, and the throwback figures, which should be flying off of the shelves, whoever is the Project Manager on the game- THEY as well, need to be fired.
Ok... the production of minis would have to be placed in between all the 'big games' miniatures. Specialist games resurrection is still verymuch in it's infancy, it's under the auspices of Forgeworld, but also is relying on plastics releases, so it's resin extensions would need to find sculpting and release schedule between FWs other releases and it's major plastics releases and boxed sets would need the same against AoS and 40k... I think the specialist games 'team' is like 3 people in the corner of FW's studio.
It's not even remotely realistic for you to suggest they release at the same rate as they had previously when the Citadel team (considerably larger in those days) downed tools on all other projects to work on one SG at a time.
And you're calling for the firing of Andy Hoare, who's not only the only person to have written about 40k in all four major incarnations (40k, BL, FFG & FW), created perhaps the best Imperial Armour of all in IA13 and constantly worked to bring in Rogue Trader/oldschool themes and, have met and played a game against the bloke, is likely one of the nicest and most chilled human beings on the planet.
GW really should increase it's creative team sizes and production capacity, both really great signs of their increased profits and success, but calling for someone to lose their job because you don't have access to all the toys at once is ridiculous.
Huh, that's understandable. I was wondering why the releases were too slow. At least its a logistics thing rather than marketing incompetence.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/02/19 19:18:38
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
Wouldn't GW make a ton of money by selling the less available classic miniatures? Just take a look at ebay, sort on highest price first and skip past the pro-painted 2017 models.
2018/02/19 19:44:51
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
) Want to talk about Holy Grails? THIS one is mine.
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
~4100
~1660
