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They seem to be one of the best units for melee combat (apart from the fact that they have rage).

They ARE 35 points, they only have a 4+ save, ini 4, str 4.

But here are pro's:

They get d6 power weapon attacks, a 4+ invulnerable save, have holy rage (thats assault 12' inches right?) and toughness 5. Sure you cant transport them, but do they not have a place somewhere? They could chew through ork boys like theres no tomorrow, and will absolutely laugh like schoolgirls if a meq squad gets in combat with them.

Whats not to love?

Because T5 and a 4+ invuln is actually quite fragile for a 35-point assault unit. Consider that for the approx. the same points you could have 6 Ork boyz, with a total of 24 attacks on the charge amongst them and 6 wounds.

Also, Arco-Flagellants will in no way come out ahead against boyz. If a flagellant were to charge 6 boyz it would get an average of 4.5 attacks, 2.25 hits, and 1.125 kills. The 5 remaining boyz would have 15 attacks for 7.5 hits and approximately 1.25 wounds and .625 failed saves. Since the A-F is only killing on average a single T4 model each round even charging, they just really fail to impress. If those boyz charged the flagellant, it would be even more weighted in their favor. Combined with their lack of a transport it means they just routinely fail to impress. Compare that to a 40 point terminator (5 points higher) with a 2+/3++ save who is much tougher and much stronger and kills 1.25 T4 targets on the charge instead of 1.125.

they are not bad true, its the rest of the codex that the problem.

also they get mowed down alot

The fact that you have to take a Priest and that they can't take a transport. He's basically a free killpoint who doesn't synergize with anyone but the Archo Flagellants; unfortunately Dangerous to Know prevents him from joining them. So by taking Archo Flagellants you either give your opponent a free killpoint or screw over another squad (he forces them to try to charge the enemy, and they always count as having moved when firing weapons).

Then you've got the issue of mobility. Sure they move quickly, but they also get killed without a save if you roll too well. They're vulnerable all manner of small arms on the way to the enemy because they can't ride a transport. This is all compounded by their Rage, so your opponent can lead them away from vulnerable targets.

Jaon wrote:They seem to be one of the best units for melee combat (apart from the fact that they have rage).

They ARE 35 points, they only have a 4+ save, ini 4, str 4.

But here are pro's:

They get d6 power weapon attacks, a 4+ invulnerable save, have holy rage (thats assault 12' inches right?) and toughness 5. Sure you cant transport them, but do they not have a place somewhere? They could chew through ork boys like theres no tomorrow, and will absolutely laugh like schoolgirls if a meq squad gets in combat with them.

Whats not to love?

If you are using ork boyz as your bench mark, you need a better benchmark.

Anyways, they just cost too much, have no delivery system, and are in an army that does not need or want them. If they were in guard, where a nasty counter charge unit can be hidden, sure, they can't be any worse than ogryns or rough riders. Still better options than them though. A 4++ is still crappy when you are talking a model that has no other defense other than an ok toughness and a single wound. Add in the fact that you MUST take a priest in one of your units to even take a unit of them... Too may hurdles for a unit that is both unpredictable and fragile.

Basically they are only good if you are _already_ taking a priest.

You can take a squad of sisters for the same price, which gives you a faith point.

I mean honestly.

You want the sisters.

If you want something like that take a couple Death Cult or see if your opponent will allow them for 25 pts per instead of 35.

Doesn't str 4 mean they can't hurt any av11 walkers? Big problem if a single killa can can tarpit such an expensive unit.

35 points t5 4+ invo is no better than t5 in cover. With csm I just lash them into a tight formation and have my rhinos havoc ml them to death, not even worth wasting a shot from a defiler or oblits.

Their best target, MEQs, results in one wound per round of CC. For 35 points.

If they had FnP, you might have something. Or could get a priest. Or a transport. Like the other freakshow units, they might be good if only they didn't have all those restrictions making them suck.

On the other hand, they are probably damn dangerous in cityfight.

Against IG & Tau their CC ability is unnecessary overkill in CC against troops that can be knocked down by a stiff wind.

Against nids they will be fighting hordes of small critters with 6+ armor and poisoned attacks after they eat a paroxism.

Codex Marines can null zone + Sternguard them.

Eldar can doom + bladestorm them.

Orc Boys are ideally suited to fight them in CC, provided they don't get sucked into CC with a killa Kan.

Necrons will tarpit them with wraiths, which will probably win.

Chaos will lash them.

Point for point arcoflagellents are excellent for what they do so it's not that arcoflagellents are inherently bad, it's that every army has a very easy way to counter them.

Its a shame there so expensive. 25 points a piece, transport and no rage and theyd be good. It sucks they also have the roll a 6 and die thing.

And they are almost the same as Repentia but the repentia are cheaper (but not a whole lot better choice). Repentia have eviscerators so that they have Str 6 and 2d6 to penetrate makes them a little better in my book.

They swing last though, and that's a problem with their low T and bad save.

Both are annoyingly easy to just shoot to death.

I didn't say they were a good unit. Merely that if I had to choose between the Arcos or the Repentia I would choose the later.