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Hi Folks!

I'm new to the Eldar and need some insight on a 1500 pt army. I wanted to go for a hybrid army that can be used for a variety of situations, rather than being specialized in a certain mission.

So far, I've come up with this (the points of the wave serpents have been added to the units they'll be transporting):

HQ

Farseer with fortune, doom, singing spear and spirit stones 133

Elites

5 Fire dragons 190
Wave Serpent with linked shuriken cannons and spirit stones

8 Howling Banshees, exarch with executioner 260
Wave Serpent with linked shuriken cannons and spirit stones

7 Striking Scorpions, exarch with scorpion's claw, stalker 144

Troops

7 Dire Avengers, exarch with 2 Avenger Shuriken Catapults and Bladestorm 226
Wave Serpent with linked shuriken cannons and spirit stones

10 Guardians with starcannon and spiritseer with embolden 141

10 Guardians with scatter laser 95

Heavy Support

Wraithlord with EML, brightlance, 2x flamers 155

Wraithlord with EML, brightlance, 2x flamers 155


Total Points: 1499


Someone told me I should drop one guardian squad and take a small unit of rangers/pathfinders instead, any suggestions?

Your Seer is good, who are you going to put him with?

I'd suggest dropping the Guardians as you said. Add 3 more Dire Avengers, and possibly another squad if you can find the points. A squad of 5 pathfinders can also be handy for camping on an objective.

Banshee's really suffer from not being able to assault if the wave serpent moves at all, but I have fielded a squad of 10 with some sucess. If you like them then go for it

Scorpions are okay, I'd max the squad though if you want to take them.

Dragons are perfect

I'd drop the 'Lords for 2 fire prisms with holo-fields, only saves a few points, but the large blasts will help you loads.

First off, welcome to Eldar!

Well, the standard competitive Eldar army is all mech these days. I'd certainly suggest going that route if you're playing in an uber-competitive environment.

Farseer: Solid choice. Give him Runes of Warding at a minimum, but I'd suggest Runes of Witnessing as well.

Fire Dragons: Another solid choice. You can drop the Spirit Stones on their WS if you need the points elsewhere.

Banshees: Unfortunately, these guys are not all that great. A WS isn't an assault vehicle, so actually getting them into CC is very tricky. But, if you are set on using them, this is the best loadout for them.

Scorpions: Like the Banshees, they aren't very good and I'd recommend dropping them. I'd change the Exarch to have a Biting Blade over a Scorpion's Claw. Banshees are a better choice against MeQ, so no need to go for a power weapon on the Exarch. Using base I is the way to go!

Avengers: Solid choice. Upgrade them to a full squad of 10. Also, try to give their WS a Brightlance, or EML if you prefer. Spirit Stones are good, but optional.

Defender Guardians: Rubbish. They move way too slow for the rest of your army, and their single heavy weapon isn't enough of an advantage to make them worth it. Drop them for more Avengers, or a squad of: 10 Storm Guardians with 2 Flamers and a Warlock with Destructor. Either way, put the squad in another WS with Brightlance or EML.

Wraithlord: He certainly looks cool and works well in a MC Eldar list, but not with mech. Drop them both. For HS, you have 3 options: 2 Fire Prisms, Falcon with a 5man DA squad to make it scoring, or War Walkers with Scatter Lasers (maybe EML or Brightlance, but Scatter works best IMO). I prefer the 2 Fire Prisms + 3 War Walkers with Scatter Lasers, but other options are totally viable.


Edit: To expand on Gorechild: Fire Prisms work best in pairs, don't upgrade to the cannon, and either give them both Holo Fields or run them both naked.

The farseer was intented to stick with the banshees, so they'll always benefit from fortune and doom.

The reason why I deliberately avoided having tanks (aside from WS as transport) is that the majority of non-Eldar players refuse to play against an Eldar army that fields tanks (at least where I live).

I took the wraithlord as a sort of giant weapon platform that will hopefully draw attention away from my frail troops.

And I chose the guardians over pathfinders cause they can move and still shoot, but also because they're frail. Why this is good? Well, in my opinion it's just another way to draw the enemy's attention, to make them choose a seemingly easy target, thus providing yet another pseudo-cover for my banshees and fire dragons.

The scorpions would stick with the guardians to intercept with anything that gets too close, or to block LOS of the enemy's shooters.

Any opinions on that tactic?

But swapping one defender squad for a storm squad seems to be the better option.

Morragan wrote:
The reason why I deliberately avoided having tanks (aside from WS as transport) is that the majority of non-Eldar players refuse to play against an Eldar army that fields tanks (at least where I live).

Wait... really? A Fire Prism is good, but it's not OP by any means. Do they allow IG tanks, or Land Raiders, or Monoliths?

Grakmar wrote:Wait... really? A Fire Prism is good, but it's not OP by any means. Do they allow IG tanks, or Land Raiders, or Monoliths?

It's not a matter of being allowed or not, but rather it's the mentality of most of the non-Eldar players here to avoid playing against an Eldar army that fields tanks.
If this animosity is against a certain type of tank or their tanks in general, I don't know. But because I still want to be able to find people to play with, I opted for a
list that doesn't contain any heavy support tank

Its not a bad list.
However, if you field footsloggers like Guardians then the enemy has a focus
and he will move towards them.
This restricts your tactical freedom and variability.

That's really weird, especially considering that in terms of raw power, Eldar have somewhat fallen behind most of the newer codexes.

I'm somewhat interested to see what other sorts of things they refuse to play against (IE the more powerful IG tanks, etc), or whether they are having flash backs to 4th Edition where Eldar Falcons ruled the board.

The fact of the matter is that the changes from 4th to 5th made Eldar tanks very killable, and the newest codexes have made other armies VERY powerful (I'm looking at you furry and sparkle marines) If you are playing against good lists from these newer codexes, and you are deliberately avoiding units that would synthesize better with your army list, then you may be gimping yourself because of a mistaken belief with roots in a past edition of the game. That's just not fair to you. I'd also recomend fire prisms, but I wager you should talk to the people you play with and explain that this isn't 4th edition any more and Eldar tanks are actually quite reasonable.

Anyway, try replacing your Guardian Defenders with Guardian Jetbikes. I find that a squad of jetbikes is better than any other troop eldar can put on the table without a transport in most hybrid type lists. This is because they are fast enough to keep up with mechanized elements in your army (and fast enough to make use of a singing spear warlock), still have a heavy weapon, t4, 3+ save, and can turbo boost 24 inches for late game objective grabbing and a 3+ cover save. Don't forget that their assault move jump puts them out of charge range after shooting their tl shuri catapults.

This makes them far superior to guardian defenders in a hybrid list, who have trouble re positioning and wear paper mache armor. Their mobility and increased toughness and armor save also allow them to generally outperform Dire Avengers on foot as well. The comparison against pathfinders is more interesting, but generally I've found that Jetbikes do more damage then Ranger long rifles do to the singing spear and shuri catapult, and their 3+ armor against flamers, 3+ cover when turbo boosting, and speed to escape from most close combat units, that over the course of a game they are more survivable.

My favorite build is
(129) 3 Gu Bikes + Warlock- cannon, spear, embolden

Generally the warlock is worth the 53 points you pay for him because of the 5th edition rules. It becomes very difficult to stay completely out of line of sight with jump shoot jump and only 24 inch range. Having an even number of jetbikes allows you to regroup after losing 2 members, and re rolling leadership helps make sure that the bikes stay on the table after taking some shots to claim an objective.

I would drop your stirking scorpions and try to buff up your Banshee and Avenger squads to 9 or 10 members each. If you are insisting on running scorpions, take that power that lets them outflank.

If you need points, drop fortune and spirit stones from the farseer. Fortune, while a good power and will undeniably help banshees in close combat, is far more effective on units with an invulnerable save (like councils)

The list is pretty good, and i like seeing a non-mech list for a change.

Afew changes:
I'd give your farseer runes of warding, they're pretty much standard seer equipment and you can't go wrong with them.

Others have said drop the scorpions or banshees though i have to disagree. They may be hard to use but they can be pretty damn awesome and by having both units in your army you can engage most enemies with soemthing and do sufficient damage. Id also try to find the points for acrobatic on your banshees, it's only 5 points and it gives you counter attack, which is a bargain. Putting the seer with the banshees is also a good idea.

The guardians. I'd drop the squad with the warlock, one because 2 guardian defender units are probably enough (youp normally only have 1 home objective), and a warlock is wasted on a defender unit imo. I'd drop the 141pt squad of them and use the points to max out both the DA and scorpion squads, and get acrobatic on the banshees. This, if i calculate correctly, gives you 68pts left, you could get a small unit of 3 jetbikes, or perhaps a war walker, or weapon platform with these points.

Interesting view on vehicles by your gaming club there, but two wraithlords are perfectly ok, so don't worry about it.

And finally, Welcome to the Path of the Eldar

Morragan wrote:

Grakmar wrote:Wait... really? A Fire Prism is good, but it's not OP by any means. Do they allow IG tanks, or Land Raiders, or Monoliths?

It's not a matter of being allowed or not, but rather it's the mentality of most of the non-Eldar players here to avoid playing against an Eldar army that fields tanks.
If this animosity is against a certain type of tank or their tanks in general, I don't know. But because I still want to be able to find people to play with, I opted for a
list that doesn't contain any heavy support tank

Surely that is just bad sportsmanship on their part to avoid a list because they can't deal with one thing is stupid. (okay maybe if it was IG leafblower list I would understand a bit) but Eldar tanks are not OP in the slightest.

That aside its quite a good list that you got.

syanticraven wrote:Surely that is just bad sportsmanship on their part to avoid a list because they can't deal with one thing is stupid.

Perhaps most of them never played against Eldar with the 5th edition changes, and are still biased from their experience from 4th edition.


Anyway, after some tweaking, I've come up with this list:

HQ

Farseer with doom, singing spear 83

Elites

5 Fire dragons 190
Wave Serpent with linked shuriken cannons and spirit stones

10 Howling Banshees, exarch with executioner 292
Wave Serpent with linked shuriken cannons and spirit stones

7 Striking Scorpions, exarch with scorpion's claw, stalker 144

Troops

10 Dire Avengers, exarch with 2 Avenger Shuriken Catapults and Bladestorm 262
Wave Serpent with linked shuriken cannons and spirit stones

10 Guardians with scatter laser and warlock with embolden 125

10 Guardians with scatter laser 95

Heavy Support

Wraithlord with EML, brightlance, 2x flamers 155

Wraithlord with EML, brightlance, 2x flamers 155


Total Points: 1501

Eldar Own wrote:The guardians. I'd drop the squad with the warlock, one because 2 guardian defender units are probably enough (youp normally only have 1 home objective), and a warlock is wasted on a defender unit imo. I'd drop the 141pt squad of them and use the points to max out both the DA and scorpion squads, and get acrobatic on the banshees. This, if i calculate correctly, gives you 68pts left, you could get a small unit of 3 jetbikes, or perhaps a war walker, or weapon platform with these points.

If I remove the warlock and his squad though, I only have the farseer to prevent the wraithlords from suffering from wraithsight, which is why I put a warlock into a semi-stationary unit. While Doom does have a good range, I'm still not very fond of having my farseer stick to the rear end of the battlefield.

bl's on the wave serpents.

Wraithlords are a solid unit. They do their share of insane damage EVERY game. You cant get unlucky with a wraithlord. Its a tank with 3 wounds that cant be stunned that can also do close combat.

As far as the Guardians/Banshees/Scorpians its your call but id drop the guardians like said above.

And as far as people not playing against Eldar with tanks thats the funniest thing ive ever herd. If they refuse to play you, there lazy and have a gak list. Nuff Said.

Wow... I'd play foot Eldar if I were you then. Hard to play half-mech. It doesn't work well. There are Hybrid lists but are basically mech with some outflank options. Half-Wave Serpent half groundpounder doesn't really work though.

I still think you should swap your Guardian Defenders for Guardian Jetbikes. The difference really is like night and day considering most of your list is mechanized or outflanking.

I'm just not feeling the lords either, I'd say drop them for 2 squads of 3 war walkers with shuriken cannons, and outflank em- 40 point walkers are great for shooting into the rear armor of most tanks, and charging fire support squads deployed near the edge. I've popped a rhino, and tied up a 200 point tactical squad for 4 turns with an 80 point war walker squad before. Outflank and scout move really help them out.

With the extra points from those switches, I'd drop your striking scorpions and pick up a second dragon squad in a wave serpent to make up for any loss of anti tank.

If you need to drop some spirit stones to fit in that last wave serpent do it. More tanks on the table > a 1 in 6 chance increase in survivability.

In sum
- drop wraithlords for shuri walkers
- swap scorpions for another dragon squad in wave serpent
- replace guardian defenders with guardian jetbikes