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Asherian Command wrote:

Ulthanashville wrote:

English Assassin wrote:Now, they are your chapter, and you can write what you want, but if you want others to take what you have written seriously, you really need to start exercising more creative discipline.

Yeah Asherian, remember that your fluff must be at the same lofty standards set by GW's official codex writers.

So over the top, Probably bad and controversial?

But the thing is it is disclipined I have followed the complaints and I have gotten rid of alot of stuff. Now English Assassin, I am not some new guy that has just gotten into the hobby please understand that.
The new stuff I have written and researched upon and It seems fitting, if you yourself do not like it because of the OTT then you should read the Grey Knight codex. This warhammer 40k anything and everything is over the top.

No mate, you're missing the point.

To take the Grey Knights as an example:

The Grey Knights theme: Knights in Space who fight demons, and are psykers.

You can do the same with any army.

The Ork theme: Crazy hordes of wacky orks in space.

The Imperial Guard: Hordes of men and low tech tanks

Sisters of Battle: Nuns with guns,

You see? The over-riding theme of any army can be summarised in a single sentence. Whats your theme? Because despite reading through your posts, I'm still not getting it.

Work out what that single-sentence theme is, the CORE of your background, and then go from there.

The Guardians are Mary Sue...

purplefood wrote:The Guardians are Mary Sue...

DAMN!

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:The Guardians are Mary Sue...

DAMN!

Dude Grey Knight gene-seed?
Nothing you could have added afterwards would have made it non-Mary Sue...

purplefood wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:The Guardians are Mary Sue...

DAMN!

Dude Grey Knight gene-seed?
Nothing you could have added afterwards would have made it non-Mary Sue...

Yeah I know >.>
I really can't add anything that would make them less mary sue. Either that or I make them a regular chapter with only pyskers but I really don't like the idea of people that look identical in structure to the Thousand Sons running around.
I might lower the amount they have though.

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:The Guardians are Mary Sue...

DAMN!

Dude Grey Knight gene-seed?
Nothing you could have added afterwards would have made it non-Mary Sue...

Yeah I know >.>
I really can't add anything that would make them less mary sue. Either that or I make them a regular chapter with only pyskers but I really don't like the idea of people that look identical in structure to the Thousand Sons running around.
I might lower the amount they have though.

Why not just scrap the idea ll-together but say they have an increased number of psykers but instead of revering them they fear/hate them and the psykers are the social outcasts inthe chapter...

purplefood wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:The Guardians are Mary Sue...

DAMN!

Dude Grey Knight gene-seed?
Nothing you could have added afterwards would have made it non-Mary Sue...

Yeah I know >.>
I really can't add anything that would make them less mary sue. Either that or I make them a regular chapter with only pyskers but I really don't like the idea of people that look identical in structure to the Thousand Sons running around.
I might lower the amount they have though.

Why not just scrap the idea ll-together but say they have an increased number of psykers but instead of revering them they fear/hate them and the psykers are the social outcasts inthe chapter...

That spot is already filled by the firebirds. (Social Outcasts, Outcasts, Criminals within the chapter, Pentience Crusaders)
Yeah scrapping the whole idea sounds like a good idea. I've wanted to keep their pysker numbers down. But I could make them part of another chapter that is not the Storm Crusaders. Like the Phoenix Knights. Increased amount of Pyskers. (Realtively same size, different color scheme, larger strike forces, less braggy, hates devastator squads etc.)
Maybe I should use that chapter instead. As they are basically a chapter formed from a unknown geneseed (Non-traitor) I just need to write down who they are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kaldor wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Ulthanashville wrote:

English Assassin wrote:Now, they are your chapter, and you can write what you want, but if you want others to take what you have written seriously, you really need to start exercising more creative discipline.

Yeah Asherian, remember that your fluff must be at the same lofty standards set by GW's official codex writers.

So over the top, Probably bad and controversial?

But the thing is it is disclipined I have followed the complaints and I have gotten rid of alot of stuff. Now English Assassin, I am not some new guy that has just gotten into the hobby please understand that.
The new stuff I have written and researched upon and It seems fitting, if you yourself do not like it because of the OTT then you should read the Grey Knight codex. This warhammer 40k anything and everything is over the top.

No mate, you're missing the point.

To take the Grey Knights as an example:

The Grey Knights theme: Knights in Space who fight demons, and are psykers.

You can do the same with any army.

The Ork theme: Crazy hordes of wacky orks in space.

The Imperial Guard: Hordes of men and low tech tanks

Sisters of Battle: Nuns with guns,

You see? The over-riding theme of any army can be summarised in a single sentence. Whats your theme? Because despite reading through your posts, I'm still not getting it.

Work out what that single-sentence theme is, the CORE of your background, and then go from there.

Wait have you read the new lore?
It clearly states they are very much like the Knights of Normandy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:

Nemesor wrote:how'd your exam go?

only 3? thats 3 per 1000 spez mehrens and you hav what 3.5k of them? you could have 10.5 battle barges

Each Battle Barge can IIRC just about manage an entire chapter.
Though i could be wrong about that.

Battle Barges can hold up to 300 Astartes.

Asherian Command wrote:
Wait have you read the new lore?
It clearly states they are very much like the Knights of Normandy

Yeah, but it's still too confusing and confused.

You need to lower it in scope.

Where you were talking before about Firebirds being the 'outcasts' of the group for example. Thats wrong. I neither know nor care who the firebirds are. It's just too much extra information.

I think thats the problem here. You've got way too many ideas and way too much information. Pick just one, and go with it.

For example:

The Chapter is Psyker heavy.

The Librarians lead the chapter.

They are feared by the rest of the chapter. They rule the chapter with an iron fist, and any who speak out against them disappear.

The chapter has an increased number of librarians.

They are fleet based and are constantly searching for something.

Thats all the information you need. You can fill in the gaps with details if you want, but it serves no purpose.

Okay. Let me go over what i have added recently.

The Chapter is Massive

3 Grand Templars Lead the Chapter

They are respected by the chapter. They lead by example and those who hold the word of the codex ignatus as no more than a guideline is promoted.

The Chapter has a large Fleet and maintains several systems which they recruit from. Each Company recruits from a specific planet alongside another company.

They are Siege Experts and line breakers and their first company is mainly sternguard veterans. Sometimes being called Devastator Veteran Squads which sometimes carry four heavy weapons to battle including their normal special ammunition ammo.

You clearly didn't read my post or who I was quoting O.o

There good?

Plus that was quoting Purple food not you mate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:This is a record of my chapter and its deeds and its lore. For those of you who have been wondering what my sig was talking about this a blog talking about my custom chapter that has taken my 2 years to start and to refine. This is still under repair and it is still being updated with new information. If you would like to help with the lore, that would be very helpful.

First i will start with the basics.

Chapter Name: Storm Crusaders

Founding: Unknown (Possibly Third)

Battle Cry: Fear us! For the Storm Has Come for you!

Geneseed: (expunged)Founder was Asherian Lakios a very powerful Pysker that had extremely powerful abilities.
Homeworld: Drancoris Sector

Chapter Masters: Grand Templar Calnor Alrnia and Arch Templar Malnar

Chapter no:124

Current Activities: Crusades in Armaggeddon, Grimnar, Ghoul Stars, Drancoris

Number Adeptus Astrates: 3,750

Chapter Tactics:Siege Warfare, Long Campagins, Defensive Deployments, Holding Positions, Large Assaults, Survivalists,

Loyalty:Imperial, Inquisitorial Oath of Service,

The Storm Crusaders are an ancient Chapter, being founded during an unknown founding. Though they can trace it back to the 3rd founding. They have fought in major campaigns in the ghoul stars. They are known as the “The Storm’s last Crusade.” Hence their chapter name is apporiate. The Storm crusaders are venerable warriors and fight with unmatched fury with the blade, though they are famed for their use with halbrieds. A Very unusual skill among astrates.

The Crusaders are a massive chapter and do not adhere to the codex astrates at any points but follow the Codex Ignatus, a tome created by the Storm Crusader’s 2nd Arch Templar, Malnar with much aid from his predecessor and his first captain, the only similarities are maintaining, a Libarius, Techmarines, Chaplains, Devastators, Tactical, Scouts, and Assualt squads the two are almost completely different. The Storm Crusaders have been highly successful though when it comes to prolonged sieges, defenses, and campaigning. Such is their skill with this the chapter usually employs entire companies filled with siege weaponry. The chapter itself maintains 34 companies. For every 10 companies there are in the Storm Crusaders these 10 are lead by 1 Grand Templar. In total there are 3 Grand Templars.
The Chapter then also maintains Other Astartes that form either the 15th, 31st, 32nd, 33rd, or 34th companies.
The Firebirds Classified as Criminals of the Chapter that are sent on penitence Crusades as a company. (Assualt Marines with Bolters) 31st
The Paladins Classified as the Honor Guard of the Chapter Maintain only 124 of them at a time. (Honor Guard) (COnsider to be the 15th Company)
The Reavers used to cause disruption in enemy lines. Teleport into battle with sophisticated technology. (Legion of the Damned) 32nd
The Siege Company Techmarines and specialists used to construct defenses. (Extra Vechile Drivers) 33rd
The First Guardians. Guard the Fortress Monestary gifted most relics of the chapter. And Guard the Vaults. None of them are pyskers. Only 80 of them are active at a time. 34th

Libarian Orders. (Taken from thousand sons, but different tasks)
Disliked by puriests of the chapter. Maintain only 120 Members.

Please skip to page 10 to read new lore.....

I thought I was over looking stuff.

TBH I think the numbers for your chapter are a bit high, I mean making it non codex is fine, but at that size it would rival the SW and GK, who are only this big because of special circumstances. 2250-2500 might be better, IMHO.

Also, the battlecry is a bit wordy, Into the Storm or Enter the Storm may be better.

Other than that it seems good.

I'll underline the bits that are silly

Asherian Command wrote:Okay. Let me go over what i have added recently.

The Chapter is Massive

3 Grand Templars Lead the Chapter

They are respected by the chapter. They lead by example and those who hold the word of the codex ignatus as no more than a guideline is promoted.

The Chapter has a large Fleet and maintains several systems which they recruit from. Each Company recruits from a specific planet alongside another company.

They are Siege Experts and line breakers and their first company is mainly sternguard veterans. Sometimes being called Devastator Veteran Squads which sometimes carry four heavy weapons to battle including their normal special ammunition ammo.

So we've got a large chapter (why so large?) that has a command element of Three leaders.

What is the codex ignatus? Just use the codex astartes.

I like the idea of them being heavy weapons experts, using lots of big guns. But don't stuff around with devastator veteran squads, wo don't need to know what each type of squad is called. It's enough to know that they like lots of big guns.

But thats much better, you're getting somewhere now :-)

Kaldor wrote:I'll underline the bits that are silly

Asherian Command wrote:Okay. Let me go over what i have added recently.

The Chapter is Massive

3 Grand Templars Lead the Chapter

They are respected by the chapter. They lead by example and those who hold the word of the codex ignatus as no more than a guideline is promoted.

The Chapter has a large Fleet and maintains several systems which they recruit from. Each Company recruits from a specific planet alongside another company.

They are Siege Experts and line breakers and their first company is mainly sternguard veterans. Sometimes being called Devastator Veteran Squads which sometimes carry four heavy weapons to battle including their normal special ammunition ammo.

So we've got a large chapter (why so large?) that has a command element of Three leaders.

What is the codex ignatus? Just use the codex astartes.

I like the idea of them being heavy weapons experts, using lots of big guns. But don't stuff around with devastator veteran squads, wo don't need to know what each type of squad is called. It's enough to know that they like lots of big guns.

But thats much better, you're getting somewhere now :-)

Agreed. I will. Plus I am using this in cohesion with Marik Law's Chapter Creator. So I CAN take Sternguard Heavy Weapon Squads + Counter Attack + Assualt Marine Specialists. As the Assualt Marines in thee Chapter are used as linebreakers.

But it is large because it is assigned to guard a Admech world, an Inqustorial Fortress, Hunt Down a Traitor Force, (As guardians nolonger exist), must maintain a large standing force to battle the Flayed One Tombworld, Crythor fiends (Who have returned) The Hrud, The tryanids (A new gene of them too), The Supernatural Inhabitants, The Exodites, The Dark Eldar, The Daemons of Malice (Yes malice lives here), Orks, Renegade Chapters, The Red Corsairs, Renegade Human Empires, The Quarjin (race that i made up, insect creatures), and are under the Inqusitorial Oath of Service where they are allowed such numbers and the Inqusition gets to use Storm Crusader companies for their own means. (Yes and also they are the lap dogs of the Inqusition in the Ghoul Stars)

Codex Ignatus is the Codex Astartes but more stricter in the dealings with other astartes and deals with all the other xenos creatures.
Codex Astartes was used as a base. But Organization was rewritten

Plus Ranks are different names
It is the Codex Astartes just different terms, different organization. Plus only 4 others follow the codex Ignatus. (2 of them were destroyed sadly)

Big guns indeed. I love big guns. I just need to incorporate it into my army. I actually lack Assault marines in my current army lists and same with vanguard veterans. (Though the wanderers do too, but they have a different special rule)

TBH I think the numbers for your chapter are a bit high, I mean making it non codex is fine, but at that size it would rival the SW and GK, who are only this big because of special circumstances. 2250-2500 might be better, IMHO.

Also, the battlecry is a bit wordy, Into the Storm or Enter the Storm may be better.

Other than that it seems good.

No. They have been cutdown enough as it is. They are in the most dangerous area in the entire imperium. The Ghoul Stars require ALOT OF ASTARTES!
Read the Ghoul Stars and you will see why they are so bad it makes the Tau threat look like a good case of the common cold.

2250-2500 is crazy low for this chapter as they have to deal with 50x more threats. Many people have commented that it is a good amount now. Not the crazy amount of 6,000.
It is 3,765. This includes every single person in the chapter. I am not counting serfs though. Because that number would rival that of an entire imperial guard regiment. They are spread out along the borders.

And No I will not change the Battlecry. Fear us! FOR THE STORM HAS COME FOR YOU!
Plus that is as long as the Dark Angels Battlecry too. I am aiming for an Imperial Fist DELETED FROM RECORDS look to them.
I have hinted mostly to them. And I facepalm when people think that the chapter is descended from the Dark Angels.....

Asherian Command wrote:
Agreed. I will. Plus I am using this in cohesion with Marik Law's Chapter Creator. So I CAN take Sternguard Heavy Weapon Squads + Counter Attack + Assualt Marine Specialists. As the Assualt Marines in thee Chapter are used as linebreakers.

Yeah, but we don't need to know about all that. People can only absorb so much information, and explaining the detailed inner workings of the chapter takes up room, time and effort that could be better used and makes people less likely to read anything.

But it is large because it is assigned to guard a Admech world, an Inqustorial Fortress, Hunt Down a Traitor Force, (As guardians nolonger exist), must maintain a large standing force to battle the Flayed One Tombworld, Crythor fiends (Who have returned) The Hrud, The tryanids (A new gene of them too), The Supernatural Inhabitants, The Exodites, The Dark Eldar, The Daemons of Malice (Yes malice lives here), Orks, Renegade Chapters, The Red Corsairs, Renegade Human Empires, The Quarjin (race that i made up, insect creatures), and are under the Inqusitorial Oath of Service where they are allowed such numbers and the Inqusition gets to use Storm Crusader companies for their own means. (Yes and also they are the lap dogs of the Inqusition in the Ghoul Stars)

Woah, woah woah! Thats WAY too much. Pick one, maybe two. Mystery is always nice, so you could have them on a secret mission for some reason or another. None of that really explains away the size, either. The Inquisition ignoring their size is... iffy.

Codex Ignatus is the Codex Astartes but more stricter in the dealings with other astartes and deals with all the other xenos creatures.
Codex Astartes was used as a base. But Organization was rewritten

Drop this all together. It adds nothing to the character of the chapter. Just use the codex astartes.

No. They have been cutdown enough as it is. They are in the most dangerous area in the entire imperium. The Ghoul Stars require ALOT OF ASTARTES!
Read the Ghoul Stars and you will see why they are so bad it makes the Tau threat look like a good case of the common cold.

2250-2500 is crazy low for this chapter as they have to deal with 50x more threats. Many people have commented that it is a good amount now. Not the crazy amount of 6,000.
It is 3,765. This includes every single person in the chapter. I am not counting serfs though. Because that number would rival that of an entire imperial guard regiment. They are spread out along the borders.

This is part of what people are talking about when they say the chapter is Mary Sue. Why so many threats and only a single chapter? If someone decided the Ghoul Stars needed pacification, they would NOT send singe chapter, then make that chapter into a super chapter. They would simply send a larger Imperial strike force. Several chapters, or contingents thereof, plus Navy and IG support, on a long term crusade.

It makes no sense that your chapter is the only significant fighting force in the area. Even if they were, you should not use that as an excuse to blow their numbers out by so much. Maybe they provide much needed support to other Imperial forces in the area, and that is why the Inquisition chooses to tread softly with regard to their size, but even then only blow the numbers out a bit. 1500 to 2000 sounds about right.

Nearly four thousand is just silly.

Asherian Command wrote:Wait have you read the new lore?
It clearly states they are very much like the Knights of Normandy

I think you may need to make that rather more clear, since I'm really not getting an impression of dark age knights from what you've written.

Kaldor wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
Agreed. I will. Plus I am using this in cohesion with Marik Law's Chapter Creator. So I CAN take Sternguard Heavy Weapon Squads + Counter Attack + Assualt Marine Specialists. As the Assualt Marines in thee Chapter are used as linebreakers.

Yeah, but we don't need to know about all that. People can only absorb so much information, and explaining the detailed inner workings of the chapter takes up room, time and effort that could be better used and makes people less likely to read anything.

But it is large because it is assigned to guard a Admech world, an Inqustorial Fortress, Hunt Down a Traitor Force, (As guardians nolonger exist), must maintain a large standing force to battle the Flayed One Tombworld, Crythor fiends (Who have returned) The Hrud, The tryanids (A new gene of them too), The Supernatural Inhabitants, The Exodites, The Dark Eldar, The Daemons of Malice (Yes malice lives here), Orks, Renegade Chapters, The Red Corsairs, Renegade Human Empires, The Quarjin (race that i made up, insect creatures), and are under the Inqusitorial Oath of Service where they are allowed such numbers and the Inqusition gets to use Storm Crusader companies for their own means. (Yes and also they are the lap dogs of the Inqusition in the Ghoul Stars)

Woah, woah woah! Thats WAY too much. Pick one, maybe two. Mystery is always nice, so you could have them on a secret mission for some reason or another. None of that really explains away the size, either. The Inquisition ignoring their size is... iffy.

Codex Ignatus is the Codex Astartes but more stricter in the dealings with other astartes and deals with all the other xenos creatures.
Codex Astartes was used as a base. But Organization was rewritten

Drop this all together. It adds nothing to the character of the chapter. Just use the codex astartes.

No. They have been cutdown enough as it is. They are in the most dangerous area in the entire imperium. The Ghoul Stars require ALOT OF ASTARTES!
Read the Ghoul Stars and you will see why they are so bad it makes the Tau threat look like a good case of the common cold.

2250-2500 is crazy low for this chapter as they have to deal with 50x more threats. Many people have commented that it is a good amount now. Not the crazy amount of 6,000.
It is 3,765. This includes every single person in the chapter. I am not counting serfs though. Because that number would rival that of an entire imperial guard regiment. They are spread out along the borders.

This is part of what people are talking about when they say the chapter is Mary Sue. Why so many threats and only a single chapter? If someone decided the Ghoul Stars needed pacification, they would NOT send singe chapter, then make that chapter into a super chapter. They would simply send a larger Imperial strike force. Several chapters, or contingents thereof, plus Navy and IG support, on a long term crusade.

It makes no sense that your chapter is the only significant fighting force in the area. Even if they were, you should not use that as an excuse to blow their numbers out by so much. Maybe they provide much needed support to other Imperial forces in the area, and that is why the Inquisition chooses to tread softly with regard to their size, but even then only blow the numbers out a bit. 1500 to 2000 sounds about right.

Nearly four thousand is just silly.

There are 7 Chapters charged with helping protect the area.
I will not decrease the number of Astartes. My chapter has 12 scouting companies. So they are all nephyotes. So in regards to how many are in the chapter the recruits are lead by one guy, reserve forces are held by one guy.
2000 Fully Fledged Battle Brothers are in the Storm Crusaders. So the number of Astartes in the entire chapter including techmarines, convicts, libararians, command units, chapter council, captains and battle brothers would be 2,550. The amount of SCOUTS would be 1,245. (Though there are countless others.
I have to reorganize it like that.
Okay instead of the Codex Ignatus how about the book of igntaus which is an addition to the codex. But gets rid of the organization and the chapter being over charged force.
And yes they do face all of those problems it is to spread them out.
That is the plan.
If they are all close together it would be bad. Heresy could brew.
So I have made these few rules for my chapter.
Grand Templars There are 3 of them.
12 Grand Guardians. Masters of Chapter. Includes many captains.
There are 30 Captains
There are 12 Grand Guardians
There are only 4 Magistrates- (equivalent to a Chief Librarian but only have 3 pyschic abilities. Can only cast a certain ability) they lead the pyskers of the chapter
There is only one Arcana Magistrate
There is only one Cypher of Ignatus. (Master of Sanctity)
Only 1 Arch Templar that does not control the chapter. He is the Champion of the Storm Crusaders and must be a pysker.
52 Leaders right there. (aiming for 62, x 2 and you get the chapter no. )

So instead of 3,765 Astartes
How about 2,550, and 1,215 Scouts or neyphotes or trainees?
Plus scouts are just defending the borders along with the imperial guard.

If i have missed anything please tell me.
There are 7 other chapters (retconned it is now 6)
The Wanderers (Check chapters of the forgotten ANGEL theme.) (Clearly Dark Angels) (4th Founding)
Sword Templars (Imperial Fists (6th Founding) )
Dusk Guard (Blood Angels (9th founding) )
Black Juggernauts (Ultramarines) (7th founding)
Phoenix Knights (Imperial Fists (10th Founding) )
Dusk Paladins (Raven Guard) (22nd Founding)
Storm Knights (DESTROYED) (EXCOMMUNICATE TRAITORIOUS)
(Sadly no salamanders)
(Yes those are all their descendants I hate ultramarines, so I just ignore their 1/3 of all space marine chapters are descended from them, To break from tradition the area is mainly imperial fists)
Also I plan on writing about why they keep such a high number (They are basically space marine chapter killers)
heres a list of all the chapters I have made...
(http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/322869.page)
Sadly most of those are deleted. Except for the ones I have just listed, Except a few of the newer guys I have made to offbalance against eh xenos races that are at hand. They are assigned sectors, some are just there serving in a crusade (Sword Templars, Phoenix Knights, and Dusk Guard)

You REALLY should decrease the size of your chapter, it feels like you're compensating when you throw those kinds of numbers out there. It gets ridiculous. make them awesome, not many.

im2randomghgh wrote:You REALLY should decrease the size of your chapter, it feels like you're compensating when you throw those kinds of numbers out there. It gets ridiculous. make them awesome, not many.

2500 Astartes is all i am lowing it down too. I am not lowering it down to less than 30 companies I will increase the amount of SCOUTS. But the number will remain 3,765.
Of course.
The average chapter has 1,500 (Scout companies maintain alot more than just 100 its usually 400, and there are 100 other nifty guys called Techmarines, Honor Guard, Libarians, Masters of the Chapter, Apothecaries, Command Squads, Chaplains, Deathwatch members, and Dreadnoughts.)
My chapter is double the size of the theortical amount. +then some from the 'elite'. I am counting all of them this includes pentience Crusaders, I am counting all of them.
They are not large in the grand scheme of things. I am not lowering them anymore.

Asherian Command wrote:My chapter is double the size of the theortical amount. +then some from the 'elite'. I am counting all of them this includes pentience Crusaders, I am counting all of them.
They are not large in the grand scheme of things. I am not lowering them anymore.

And THATS why it's mary sue.

Theres no good reason to have them at such a size.

Kaldor wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:My chapter is double the size of the theortical amount. +then some from the 'elite'. I am counting all of them this includes pentience Crusaders, I am counting all of them.
They are not large in the grand scheme of things. I am not lowering them anymore.

And THATS why it's mary sue.

Theres no good reason to have them at such a size.

Uhh thats a perfectly good reason for them to be that size.
They are under inqusitioral oath, The Inqusition uses them as lap dogs to destroy chapters. (Of course that is a secret)
They are sent in for clean-up if a world that is not in the ghoul stars to be wiped from the face of existance.
They aren't mary sue because of that. They are mary sue because I will not lower them because i have argued this from the very beginning? Helk no I ain't lower them. If there are two other examples in lore. Then no I will not drop them.
I hate the codex astartes. I will not drop the codex ignatus Too much effort was made to make it their own.
There are alot of things I am willing to change except, Manpower, Location, Chapter Icon, The Codex Ignatus, and the 30 companies in total. but 12 of them are scout companies O.O so whats the problem with that? You all insist to lower numbers when I Have complied and made less battle-brothers. But you still insist that is too much.
I will not lower them because I have too much effort into WHY they have so many. 2,000 Astartes means that I will lose 10 companies that I have either found abosutely necessary. This means they will not have reserve companies AT ALL. That is a dumb idea, THEY ARE CONSTANTLY campagining. They are not some bastard child of the Ultramarines. They are unknown geneseed, and a third founding chapter. I will not follow the codex at all. All doctrines I have changed. Helk my army is proof of this.
This isn't mary sue if they are constantly at war, and they have a noble culture which I am in the process of developing. I have always found that 3,000 Astartes are necessary.
Plus I am using theortical numbers. Every chapter has around 1,200 - 1,500 In numbers in their chapter. I am double the amount. I am not claiming they are the best, But they do have alot of them because their numbers are constantly threatened BY HOW MANY THREATS THERE ARE.
Don't believe me read about the ghoul stars. The entire area is a threat.
IT is the worst part of the imperium.
HELK LEXI even says that it is the most dangerous area.
It has alot of unknown aliens and unknown creatures and unknown empires. Of course the aliens make other threats looks null if they were ever released from their confinement.
The Storm Crusaders also have to protect the Admech Forgeworld which produces alot of important things, like titans, power armor, terminator armor and even land raiders. But the demand for such is so high that the Storm Crusaders have to send a small squad to help guard the Admech group that performs the drop off. That seems highly likely and very pausiable. Of course those Storm Crusaders are most likely Techmarines.

The Storm Crusaders have found the codex Astartes to be ineffective against certain races they have faced. So they have dropped it and redid with the codex ignatus. It is a tomb of all tactics, doctrines, organization, culture, history, and rules of the Storm Crusaders. They follow it because that is the deal. They Signed a pact with the inqusition.
I am sorry kaldor but I have stated that several times in this thread. Noted 12 times. And people usually say that makes sense.
Now if your refusing and are not letting me write it down that is all your fault.

Notice how you've made them the size of 1/2 the entire Black Templar warmachine?

At least explain why you NEED them to be this big?

im2randomghgh wrote:Notice how you've made them the size of 1/2 the entire Black Templar warmachine?

At least explain why you NEED them to be this big?

Yep. That was the plan.

Plus 3000 is a good number.

Also because the points i have made.

Myself wrote:
THEY ARE CONSTANTLY campagining.
They are sent in for clean-up if a world that is not in the ghoul stars to be wiped from the face of existence.
They face threats that make mockery of other threats.
They had to face the nightmare which destroyed 10 entire chapters.
They have to maintain a large standing Army of Astartes because they have to deal with long strenous campagins that would destroy ENTIRE chapters. (Griminar campagin)
They are constantly attacked by the Necrons
Read this http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ghoul_Stars

The Ghoul Stars are a desolate region of space1-p44 located in the extreme northeast of the galaxy and consisted of worlds lit by the cold rays of dying suns.5-p15 It is known as a feared area of void-space located in the northern part of the Ultima Segmentum. The Iquathan Deeps and the world of Orask is situated near the Ghoul Stars.6-p79 It is known that no expedition has ever returned from the Ghoul Stars.1-p44

Among the Xeno populations within this area were the Cythor Fiends1-p44 along with other creatures out of primal nightmare such as Togoran Bloodreeks along with other creatures so alien as if they were supernatural.5-p15 This region of space was once home to a number of Human inhabited worlds. However, an ancient threat is believed to be responsible for the destruction of these planets and accounted for the large number of formerly human inhabited Dead Worlds.3-118 The inhabitants of the Ghoul Stars have been described as being supernatural and pose a threat to the galaxy.4-p26 Among the most horrifying of threats native to this area of space is the Necron Bone Kingdom of Drazak.5-p15

In circa late M34, a great threat from the Ghoul Stars referred to as the Pale Wastings after the Nova Terra Interregnum is known in the records of the Imperium. What few records remain of this event is that this threat as both a "Star-spawned plague" that swept across many worlds and as "Nightmare engines" that slaughtered entire sectors. The Novamarines along with eleven other Chapters were dispatched to combat this menace in what was believed to be an apocalyptic struggle. Among the only survivors were the Novamarines with the others being lost though the only evidence of this in later years was an ancient stelae located in the Imperial Palace on Terra itself that refers to the bravery of the Chapter.3-p118

In 601.390.M38, the Marines Errant Space Marines entered into the Covenant of Ecale with the legendary Sia'hadn Ecale of the Rogue Trader House of Ecale. Between this point and until 433.M38, the entire weight of the Chapter was added to the Rogue Trader's own army that went on a voyage of war and exploration into the Ghoul Stars that lasted more than forty years.3-p76 In 977.M41, an Eastern splinter of the Tyranid Hive Fleet passed through this region where it became disorientated and twisted before heading towards the Orask system.6-p79

Upon his appointment as High Marshal, Helbrecht of the Black Templars is known to had led a Crusade in 989.M41 against the Cythor Fiends that resided within the Ghoul Stars. Within the span of eight years, the xeno populations of the outlying systems had been exterminated whereupon the Crusade pushed to the alien homeworld. However, upon reaching the core systems, the Black Templars discovered them to be empty with no trace of the aliens found. Before the mystery could be fully investigated, the Black Templars were called to aid Armageddon that was being besieged by the Orks.1-p44

The Death Spectres Chapter are known to maintain a constant vigil over the Ghoul Stars in ensuring that the menace posed by its inhabitants do not threaten the galaxy again.4

As you can see there are ALOT OF threats.
Tyranids
Necrons
Also the Area is very unreliable for warp travel so each world has to maintain a company of marines to help protect it because it could take months, weeks, or years for aid to arrive.
The Astronimicon is at its breaking point in this region. (lexi)

Asherian Command wrote:Uhh thats a perfectly good reason for them to be that size...

Really, not it's not.

All I'm getting is the impression that you really want them to be so big, and then make up half-cooked reasons to justify it.

Why are they in the Ghoul Stars? Why doesn't the Imperium send an entire battle-group to do the job? Why is their fight so much more important than any other Marine chapter? Why would the Inquisition have a 'special' relationship with them?

None of it makes any sense, and is all there only to justify your decision to have them so large. THATS what makes it a mary sue chapter.

they have dropped it and redid with the codex ignatus. It is a tomb of all tactics, doctrines, organization, culture, history, and rules of the Storm Crusaders. They follow it because that is the deal. They Signed a pact with the inqusition.
I am sorry kaldor but I have stated that several times in this thread. Noted 12 times. And people usually say that makes sense.
Now if your refusing and are not letting me write it down that is all your fault.

Look, I understand what you're saying, but it's too mary sue. Really, it is. Drop it entirely to improve the character of your chapter.

Hell, you don't have to take on board any of the things I suggest, but the character of your chapter will remain boring, dull wish-fulfillment until you make some changes.

So far the only definable trait they have is that they like big guns. Which is pretty generic.

Since when does reinforcements being slow=each and every world needs a full company of marines as garrison? That is what PDF is for. You seem to think chapters are something so weak they blow away in the wind, but there have been maybe a few dozen destroyed EVER.

There is a reason the big name chapters like IF, UM, BA are still around: a full chapter is overkill for just about anything. A company is something that can alter a crusade.

There really are, to my knowledge, only the three super chapters, GK, SW and BT. SW have the excuse of being still, technically, a (rather depleted) legion, GK are part of the inquisition and get special rules due to that, and BT are extremely popular meta-wise so they get away with it.

im2randomghgh wrote:Since when does reinforcements being slow=each and every world needs a full company of marines as garrison? That is what PDF is for. You seem to think chapters are something so weak they blow away in the wind, but there have been maybe a few dozen destroyed EVER.

There is a reason the big name chapters like IF, UM, BA are still around: a full chapter is overkill for just about anything. A company is something that can alter a crusade.

There really are, to my knowledge, only the three super chapters, GK, SW and BT. SW have the excuse of being still, technically, a (rather depleted) legion, GK are part of the inquisition and get special rules due to that, and BT are extremely popular meta-wise so they get away with it.

Did you read the nightmares of the ghoul stars?


Okay I have to go extremely soon for a Practice ACT
But here it is.

The Nightmare as it is commonly known as is something so horrible it destroyed 10 entire chapters, and weakened the entire Aquamarine Chapter. The Black Templar Crusade lost half its number. The Marines Errant came out with heavy losses. (Please check again I have posted the horrible things there)
The Flayed ones tombworld again destroyed an entire CHAPTER.
The Chapter is large because it is so spread out along the borders that it HAS TOO MAINTAIN THAT AREA!
I have been trying to write the lore about this I will not decrease their size. But they are under an inqusitorial Oath . WHICH I AM ABOUT TO GET TO!
The light of Astronimcon in the area is so faded it has caused entire fleets to go missing in the area. It is the WORST place to be for warp travel.

Why are they in the Ghoul Stars? Why doesn't the Imperium send an entire battle-group to do the job? Why is their fight so much more important than any other Marine chapter? Why would the Inquisition have a 'special' relationship with them?

Would you send entire fleets that went missing and no communication came back? Space Marine chapters may be a very powerful resource but not all of them are suited to fight in certain battles. Or would you sacrafice a single chapter that is really good at defending spots and also doing the job of entire battle-group without wasting hundreds of thousands of resources. The Chapter was sent there after their founding. By the highlords to protect the Imperial Forces there. I have yet to write that in because I am still in the process of writing it. Give me time and I will do it just not this week.

None of it makes any sense, and is all there only to justify your decision to have them so large. THATS what makes it a mary sue chapter.

How does that not make any sense? They Face more threats than they should. In order to keep their numbers constant they have to recruit and expand their chapter.
The Chapter is spread along the entire ghoul star sector border. This area is plagued with horrible creatures. All of which have destroyed entire crusades.

Look, I understand what you're saying, but it's too mary sue. Really, it is. Drop it entirely to improve the character of your chapter.

Hell, you don't have to take on board any of the things I suggest, but the character of your chapter will remain boring, dull wish-fulfillment until you make some changes.

So far the only definable trait they have is that they like big guns. Which is pretty generic.

Ever read the Five Spheres? It is similar to the codex, but it is also the cultural center of the imperial fist's and their successors.
I will not make them a codex astartes brat.

Asherian Command wrote: The Chapter is large because it is so spread out along the borders that it HAS TOO MAINTAIN THAT AREA!

It doesn't have to maintain squat. Nothing is coming out of the Ghoul stars. Every other chapter in the galaxy has to spread out to defend THE ENTIRE GALAXY! Which is considerably larger, with more significant threats, than the tiny area of space your chapter is concerned with. And they do it with the standard ~1000 men.

Your chapter is not special in this regard. There is no 'oooh, but they HAVE to be so big, how else could they fight all these bad guys?'

Why is their size so important to you? What purpose does it serve in the narrative or character of the chapter?

This is what I meant when I talked about murdering your darlings. You're so in love with this idea you have about the chapter size that you can't see how bad it is.

Why are they in the Ghoul Stars? Why doesn't the Imperium send an entire battle-group to do the job? Why is their fight so much more important than any other Marine chapter? Why would the Inquisition have a 'special' relationship with them?

Would you send entire fleets that went missing and no communication came back? Space Marine chapters may be a very powerful resource but not all of them are suited to fight in certain battles. Or would you sacrafice a single chapter that is really good at defending spots and also doing the job of entire battle-group without wasting hundreds of thousands of resources. The Chapter was sent there after their founding. By the highlords to protect the Imperial Forces there. I have yet to write that in because I am still in the process of writing it. Give me time and I will do it just not this week.

The Nightmare as it is commonly known as is something so horrible it destroyed 10 entire chapters, and weakened the entire Aquamarine Chapter. The Black Templar Crusade lost half its number. The Marines Errant came out with heavy losses. (Please check again I have posted the horrible things there)
The Flayed ones tombworld again destroyed an entire CHAPTER.
The Chapter is large because it is so spread out along the borders that it HAS TOO MAINTAIN THAT AREA!
I have been trying to write the lore about this I will not decrease their size. But they are under an inqusitorial Oath . WHICH I AM ABOUT TO GET TO!
The light of Astronimcon in the area is so faded it has caused entire fleets to go missing in the area. It is the WORST place to be for warp travel.

A black templar crusade lost it's number. Most crusades=a chapter.

Also, the ghoul stars were PURGED the chapter that still guards them is a PRECAUTION.

The necron world located there hasn't killed any chapters.

You mean the Novamarines, aquamarine is a shade of green, mixed with cyan.

Fleets haven't disappered, expeditions have. Very different. I i were to explore antartica, that would be an expedition. If I were to command the US navy and declared war on penguins and sent warships to antarctica, that would be a fleet.

And it is NOT the WORST area to navigate the warp. The perdus rift is worse, the Maelstrom is worse, the Eye is worse, tau space is equally difficult etc.

im2randomghgh wrote:

A black templar crusade lost it's number. Most crusades=a chapter.

Also, the ghoul stars were PURGED the chapter that still guards them is a PRECAUTION.

The necron world located there hasn't killed any chapters.

FALSE!
They were not fully purged the CRYTHOR Fiends were purged. Not the ENTIRE ghoul stars. That would have killled the black templars.

Why is their size so important to you? What purpose does it serve in the narrative or character of the chapter?

My Chapter has alot of named characters. And That would mean I would lose those named characters. Most Notably, Tyrion, Night Stalker, Velkis Champion of the Crusaders, Captain Loken
Plus the great crusade gave Space Marines a more human approach thing. To me it gives more of a Characterful thing of that they are still crusaders looking to reclaim the lands of the imperium from the foul Xenos.


Okay I will change a few things like what else they do and stuff.
as I have said before here is another part of them....

The Storm Crusaders are known to be extremely well managed with Halberds. And extremely rare skill even among Astartes. It is considered an honor beyond measure to receive one. The Halbred is reminisicent of their founder Asherian who stepped upon the world of Drancoris he spoke the words "This world shall be a mighty fortress indeed. The Storms will not wither it from afar." The Storm Crusaders only give halbreds to Veterans or heroes of the chapter. It is also rare for a Captain to even receive one. Each Halberd or Blade of the Storm, has placed inside of it a piece of Asherian's armor. Which was originally designed to create a shield similar to an iron halo. An example of such a Hero is Captain Tyrion the Savior of Mal. When during the sixth war of Asherian he slew a Greater Daemon of Khorne with a power weapon, after his Libarain bound the daemon to the sword. Soon afterwards the inqusition took the weapon and it was never seen again. Tyrion was given a Blade of the Storm, he then named it Heaven's Fury.

The Storm Crusaders are also widely known for their tactics. Sometimes sacrificing other fellow Astartes to get the task done. This has caused many stresses between them and other chapters.

The Storm Crusaders ever since their birth have not actually had their chapter have more than 800 Storm Crusaders in any one sector at one time. The chapter has not been fully gathered since its founding. The Iron Stone Campagin which took place near the Alpha Two Quadrant or the Deltor Sector (Outside of the ghoul stars.) Saw only 700 Storm Crusaders in the Campagin. As they were hunting down a Chaos Renegade elements that were in the several thousands of members. Grand Templar Val headed the campagin. In which was very reminisicent of the Great Crusade. The Entire sector was brought back into the Imperium. Though 3 companies took serious damage.

Also to make them less OVERPOWERINGLY HUGE AND MARY SUE!
The Storm Crusaders Company Structures
The SC unlike most are exceptionally large containing at least 35 companies. Though in accordance to the Storm Crusader's Inqusitorial Oath. Their chapter is spread across the entire Obscurcus Imperial Sector. It is rare for even 3 companies to be paired up with each other on a campagin. But it is not uncommon for 2 companies to be paired in a campagin.

To maintain constant numbers the 22-31st companies are all replacement companies.
There are four types of companies in the Storm Crusaders.
The Storm Crusaders follow the Codex Ignatus which is an addition to the Codex Astartes. It adds new organization, ranks, activities, tactics, heritage, codes, law, and the focal point of who the Storm Crusaders must defend. It is very similar to the Sphere of Five created by the Imperial Fists.
The Four types of companies are, the Campaigning companies, the Reserve or Replacement Companies, The Scout Companies, and the Veteran Companies.

The Organization of a Campaigning company is similar to that of a battle company except for one notable exception. The Campaigning companies contain an extra squad. They are called Initiates. Accordingly the Campaigning Company can contain either from 100 to 110 Astartes. Most are split up into 60 Tactical, 10 or 20 Devastator (Depending on Company), 10 or 20 Assault (Depending on Company), and 10 Initiates. Each Campaigning company is also given a world to recruit from and the Lord Commander is sometimes given a title. For example Lord Commander Loken of the 10th is Master of the Crusade, this position provides him a seat in the outer council. He is also given access to all information regarding other crusaders. His position also allows him to prosecute members of the Storm Crusaders that he Believes are unjust, during a Campaign he may take over the leadership if the Captain or Lord Commander is found unfit to serve as the Leader. There are 9 Campagining Companies in the chapter. They are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th companies.

Initiates are Crusaders that have yet to earn full membership in the chapter. They have already passed on from being a scouts. But in order to pass into a new Rank of Full Crusader, he must prove himself, or serve a certain amount of time. This is the final trial to become a fully fledged Crusader. Initiates in a tactical sense are used as buffers to ensure that the Campaigning companies are almost always at a constant amount of strength during a campaign.

Replacement or Reserve Companies are almost always paired to a Campaigning Company. They are lead by Captains that have no title or responsibility. They are organized as such... They only Contain 100 Astartes. They have 30 (Depending on company, tactical, assualt or devastator) and 70 Initiates. There are 10 Replacement Companies. They are the 22nd, 23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th and the 31st.

Scout Companies are the main source of recruits for the chapter. Each and every single Crusader starts in this company. There are 9 Scout Companies, each having around 100-120 Neophytes. They are rare together and are commonly deployed with Campaigning companies or are sent on defense missions in the Drancoris Sector. There are 9 Scout companies. They are the 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, and 20th scout companies. They are spread out immensely

The Veteran companies are the Elite of the chapter. There are only 4 Elite Companies. They are the Paladins who are the 11th Company (Honor Guard), the 1st Company (Devastator), the 21st Company (Terminators), and the Reavers (Legion of the Damned Proxy).

The Paladins are the very elite of the chapter, though they wear artificer armor there are only 90 in the company in total. They are rarely together but come in squads of 5 and usually equipped themselves with relics of the chapter. The paladins are known throughout the Storm Crusaders as the Masters of Combat, any one proving themselves in combat are either put into the 1st company or the 11th. Though the requirements for being a paladin are more intense than any other company, each Paladin is given the Rank of Paladin, each is given a relic of which if lost will cause dishonor to him and all the paladins, Paladins must exceed the age of 250, and must also have completed the trail of pain. This company may recruit from any part of the chapter, though they can only be recruited from Command Squads that are efficient with a melee weapon.

The 1st company are the long ranged experts of the chapter instead of fighting up close like that of the paladins. The 1st company fights with percision and with the patience of a hunter. Though the 1st company is noted in having 120 Members in total, 30 of which are Sword Knights, who are equalvent to the Vanguard of other chapters, there are 80 Iron Fists or better known by Codex Chapters as Sternguard Veterans. They also have 10 Terminators which are the Command Squad of the Lord Commander Navious who also wears Terminator Armor. The Company has not fought together until the Grimnar Campagin which saw use of the 1st company vs a Tyranid Hive Fleet in a Hive City Capital. They may only recruit from the 2nd-10th companies.

The 21st is consisting of 100 Terminators, this almost unheard of tradition was started after the chapter was charged in defeating a so-called renegade chapter. The chapter was able to take that chapter's armories and they also destoried their geneseed and also took their fleet as their prize. The 21st company has never ever been gathered in one place, it is split into squads of 5 terminators almost always serving with a Reserve company or a campagin company. The 21st is formed from the most wisened of the chapter those who show expertise in a tactical squad or an assault or a devastator squad are moved into the 21st company. They may only recruit from the 22nd-31st companies. The Company squads are usually used for boarding operations, close fighting, defense or focal point defense.

The Reavers and the Fire Birds. The Reavers are known to modelize the entire chapter's sinister secrets. They are controlled directly by the Inqusition and are almost always apart of the Alpha Squadron (Which is the Deathwatch.) Those who have joined the Alpha Squadron are called Reavers by their fellow Astartes as they are the chosen few that are taken from their companies to serve as a representive in the alpha squadron. Once they leave very few ever return. It is considered an abosutle honor of the chapter. Though the members of the Crusaders that do join the Reavers are given death masks, and equipment em blazing the symbols of doom and death.

The Fire Birds are outcasts of the chapter. Criminals of the chapter law, for this they serve in an eternal penitence crusade, (The entire company) for each member of the company has done something that has dishonored the chapter, dishonored themselves, or have done a horrible crime. Instead of sentiencing the entire Storm Crusaders, the Firebirds are punished instead by serving in the worst warzones, and being forced to cooperate with all other imperial forces. Those that are sent into this company are consider outcasts. For this reason, any who have joined this company have their names wipped but are instead called Firebird with a number key. There are only 100 Firebirds and they are lead by a Chaplain who oversees them, the company always fights together. But they are never seen fighting with their brothers.

To insure that coruption in the chapter does not happen for every 10 companies they are lead by 1 Grand Templar.
For Example the 1st-10th Are lead by Grand Templar Calnor Alrnia. The 11th-20th Companies are lead by Grand Templar ______ (Needs a name). The 21st-31st (Which is the largest of the 3) are lead by Grand Templar Val. To Further Prevent corruption there are 12 Grand Guardians who are the inner council of the Chapter. They are the ones that assign the Grand Templars to a task, campagin or duty to be performed. Though they do not hold the ultimate power. There is also an Arch Templar who is the champion of the chapter but holds no power over the 3 Grand Templars and their companies, instead he is charged with holding the chapters image, and acting as a Representative of the chapter.

I agree with the various people arguing against Asherian...
If there are seven chapters created to deal with the Ghoul Stars then work within the realistic limitations of those chapters.
Having to follow the Codex rather than deviate straight away.
Counter-attacks from various races/factions.
Lack of equipment/experience.
etc

purplefood wrote:I agree with the various people arguing against Asherian...
If there are seven chapters created to deal with the Ghoul Stars then work within the realistic limitations of those chapters.
Having to follow the Codex rather than deviate straight away.
Counter-attacks from various races/factions.
Lack of equipment/experience.
etc

Not changing the number. Again. instead I am spreading the crusaders out. ALOT.
I am doing the Black Templar Idea of putting them out into a large area.
So for the next part I am going to focus on how far apart the chapter is.

Plus out of those seven. That are charged with it. But they don't have the entire chapter there. The Wanderers for example only have a knight host which is under 50 Astartes. The rest of the chapter (Which is always under 560 astartes) are spread across the Imperium. Though most of them are at Armaggeddon. The Sword Templars also another example maintain only their 9th company in the area. Due to an oath they took. They are still apart of the brotherhood but have very little influence yet again they are under strength and are currently involved along with the wanderers in the Armaggeddon war. The Dusk Guard are from the Galatic south... They only have half a company there. The Black Juggernauts, The Dusk Paladins, and the Phoenix Knights are the only ones in the area. Though here is the problem, half the Phoenix Knights are off fighting against the Red Corsairs. The Black juggernauts are ultramarines to the core and are too busy fighting the Orks. The Dusk Paladins are realitively knew but they can get the job done.