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Howard A Treesong wrote:

-Loki- wrote:I thought the whole point of switching to the resin they're using is because ut can be fed through the metal spin casting machines and can use the same molds? If so, there's no reason to expect any metal ranges to go completely out of print.

I think it's been the suspicion for a while that the current supplies of SG stuff are old stock, they may not see the worth in casting more. They'll run down the current stock and discontinue them.

That's an absolutely awful shame if it happens. I wonder if they will continue to supply the rules online?

Kilkrazy wrote:I imagine the sales of specialist games, associated figures, and collector's figures (Necromunda, etc.) are minute compared to the sales of SM.

GW's last effort to market any of the specialist games was when they sacked the Blood Bowl living rulebook committee and shut down all the fan web sites a couple of Christmases ago.

It's hardly a ringing endorsement.

Ah, the joy of knowing that a company that was once a labour of love created by people who genuinely cared about their hobby has become a corporate entity which actively despises the very people who purchase its goods.

Pacific wrote:That's an absolutely awful shame if it happens. I wonder if they will continue to supply the rules online?

Given that they exist as a means to promote and sell the miniatures one could speculate upon that...

My guess is that they'll be available in GW's new 'round filing cabinet'. You'll probably want to downland them while you can.

Is the Witch Hunters codex still on their site? Because you can make a pretty spanky counts as Sisters of Battle force using the new Grey Knights codex.

Perhaps they could license the IP out for BFG, BB and so on? Let a smaller firm or FFG take it on?

Blood Bowl has already been licensed to FFG for their BB card game.

If people want more Blood Bowl figures, there is a nice range for Elf Ball from Impact Miniatures.

-Loki- wrote:I thought the whole point of switching to the resin they're using is because ut can be fed through the metal spin casting machines and can use the same molds? If so, there's no reason to expect any metal ranges to go completely out of print.

My understanding of resin casting is far from perfect, but I was of the presumption that metal and resin casting equipment are not interchangeable. I could, of course, be wrong, and would be delighted to be enlightened.

Resin casting generally does use a different process.

One of the rumours circulating about this move of GW's through is that the resin they're changing to can be used with spin-casting moulds. It's one of the aspects of this that makes it all a little more believable... without some way of injection moulding or spin casting, resin production just wouldn't seem particularly viable on the sort of scale that GW would require.

I dont know if it's actually been mentioned whether that means the same machinery (and so the same moulds) as they're currently using, though.

The processes are different in several respects and it is hard to see one machine working for both.

However companies often dispose of old tooling and invest in new tooling and GW can do it too.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Perhaps they could license the IP out for BFG, BB and so on? Let a smaller firm or FFG take it on?

Are we talking about the same GW here? The one that is so militantly against anyone else playing with its toys that it takes people to court and claims it invented the chevron? The company that hates its customers so much that it would gladly not have any if it could get away with it? Snowflakes chance in hell that they would licenese something out, no matter how sensible a move that would be.

Pacific wrote:That's an absolutely awful shame if it happens. I wonder if they will continue to supply the rules online?

When the miniatures are gone, why would they?

Many people have mentioned that the move to resin will be the end of GW's specialist games. I do not think that this will be the case. I suspect they still sell a decent amount of specialist stuff. They even decided to reproduce Space Hulk a few years back. This shows that GW thinks there is a market in these games. The last thing that GW wants to do is switch to resin, which will surely ruffle some gamers feathers, and then on top of that cancel the specialist games. The amount of GW hate at that point would be off the scale.

spaceelf wrote:Many people have mentioned that the move to resin will be the end of GW's specialist games. I do not think that this will be the case. I suspect they still sell a decent amount of specialist stuff. They even decided to reproduce Space Hulk a few years back. This shows that GW thinks there is a market in these games. The last thing that GW wants to do is switch to resin, which will surely ruffle some gamers feathers, and then on top of that cancel the specialist games. The amount of GW hate at that point would be off the scale.

In courtroom parlance, that statement "assumes facts not in evidence, m'lord". You're making the assumption GW cares what handful of rabble-rousers think of its politics.

spaceelf wrote:Many people have mentioned that the move to resin will be the end of GW's specialist games. I do not think that this will be the case. I suspect they still sell a decent amount of specialist stuff.

Not these days to the best of my knowledge.

They even decided to reproduce Space Hulk a few years back. This shows that GW thinks there is a market in these games.

One would suggest it actually shows there's profit to be made in pulling them and then releasing a short term once it's gone it is gone revamped box set of your old games.

spaceelf wrote:Many people have mentioned that the move to resin will be the end of GW's specialist games. I do not think that this will be the case. I suspect they still sell a decent amount of specialist stuff. They even decided to reproduce Space Hulk a few years back. This shows that GW thinks there is a market in these games. The last thing that GW wants to do is switch to resin, which will surely ruffle some gamers feathers, and then on top of that cancel the specialist games. The amount of GW hate at that point would be off the scale.

Very, very little sales of the models. The move to resin obviously won't be all at once, and unless the spin casting process allows them to still use existing molds, (which it might, from what I've read), you won't see much in the way of SG models moved to resin. Not enough sales to justify cost.

Although, games being re-released, like Spacehulk, are probably something we'll see.

I can't believe that anyone thinks that the specialist games will survive this transition. In the five or so years that I've known about GW, there have been zero specialist game news. The company, like all big companies, is all about profit, and specialist game sales account for a tiny part of that. If they can't use the old molds, then forget it. Even if they can, they may not bother casting any more anyway.

Not trying to be a troll, really. Just trying to be realistic. It's a shame, because some of the stuff is really cool, but I can't imagine that the specialist ranges will survive this transition.

I agree.

The number of newbies who buy specialist games must be tiny. Presumably veterans have by now bought what they want or aren't interested.

There is zero ambition within GW for promoting old or new SG titles. They have been left to wither on the vine for several years.

Kilkrazy wrote:I agree.

The number of newbies who buy specialist games must be tiny. Presumably veterans have by now bought what they want or aren't interested.

There is zero ambition within GW for promoting old or new SG titles. They have been left to wither on the vine for several years.

Yep, I cant imagine those games are generating sales, I'd suspect GW still sells them because they still have stock in the items. Not sure if GW (or if its even possible) has an sort of process to melt down old models to reuse the materials

I would like to see that. I have never worked with resin so it would be a first

Kilkrazy wrote:

There is zero ambition within GW for promoting old or new SG titles. They have been left to wither on the vine for several years.

Well there was this blog post a month ago: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=15900022a

Now, the cynic in me could say they simply posted that to try an encourage people to buy up remaining stock before they switch to resin. The optimistic side of me hopes if there is a switch all the remaining stock no one is buying will still be there just like it has been for years. And taking it one step further I'd hope the success of Space Hulk will encourage them to do re-releases like that every few years(or every year if I had it my way.)

Unfortunately I have to buy all of my specialist games stuff of of eBay anyway. GW seems to have stopped selling most of the Mordheim range, especially the hired swords I'd be after... Elf Ranger, Dwarf Trollslayer, Halfling Scout. Dramatis Personae like Aenur, Bertha, and Veskit as well. A lot of these models were great alternatives to put into your WHFB armies.

I managed to get a few marienburgers a while back, but their stock is limited and they had to cancel a couple of my marienburgers even though they claimed to have them in stock... (they didn't even update the website after they cancelled the order.)

Necromunda and Blood Bowl on a whole seem a bit more supported in the minis range (hell, they even supposedly still sell the BB box set) but the lack of interest in Mordheim is a shame. The GW blog did a post a while back about specialist games and didn't even include a picture of Mordheim, just a small mention. ( http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=15900022a )

Space Hulk's re-release was a bit different from the other SG series in the fact that it seemed much less expandable than the other basic games. It also integrates hugely into one of GW's flagship games. I can't say the same for Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Gothic, Aeronautica, Manowar... Following this line of logic, though, Warhammer Quest would probably be a great idea for them, and Mordheim may have a fighting chance as well.

I doubt it though. Maybe if they actually properly promoted Specialist Games they'd have a chance, but as far as I see it small-scale games don't integrate with the whole 'invest at least $500 on an army' business strategy.

I'd hate to see Epic 40k in resin anyway, I severely doubt the pieces would be resilient or detailed. I hope GW doesn't get rid of specialist games, but I feel they will. I'll still keep playing my old games and ebaying the minis or using WHFB ones

BTW we will see the first (new) resins in July: Several Wizards for the new Fantasy magic supplement. More details in the corresponding thread.

Around where I live, Blood Bowl, Mordheim, Necromunda, and BGF still see the light of day. Also BFG and EPIC had very good showings at Games Day two years back. This of course does not mean that people are buying models, or that these games are played in other locals.

Over the past few years GW has put a little effort into the SGs. The things that spring to mind are the resculpt of Mighty Zug, and the Gorka Morka rules. Also certain items which were previously not listed on the site, like BFG Cobras, were reproduced and put back up.

The SGs are some of GWs best systems. It would be a shame to see them go out of print entirely. I suppose they could keep producing the plastic SG models, but for most of the systems there are not enough models to keep the game alive.

Kroothawk wrote:BTW we will see the first (new) resins in July: Several Wizards for the new Fantasy magic supplement. More details in the corresponding thread.

Coming from some one that worked/works in the production side of resin/injection molding/pewter, is a cost saver. But not a cost saver for products already being made, largely due to the fact they will need to make new molds after X production runs. Where as the models that are out now, all have been paid for, so there is no reason to make the old stuff over again in resin. The re-tool for that just doesn't make sense.As for the new products, yes it would make sense, lower costs to get production pieces made and after X amount of runs of the mold, just make a new one off the master.

What corresponding thread are you talking about? link?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/360231.page

And the retooling makes sense for many, as the metagame needs those miniatures and a resculpt would cost more.

Found this on the painting dragon forum..

I received from GW last week the following letter:

Important notice about changes to our Product Range

4th April 2011



As you will have noticed over the last few weeks we have been going through a range review which has seen multiple codes being removed from our main range (in Retail and on the Trade order pads).

Don’t be concerned- This is all part of a plan.

• Every year we review our range and assign products to Retail/Trade, or to Direct (or remove them entirely) depending on their sales performance.

• This year we are moving many codes that do not sell well to Direct.

• Products being removed from Retail/Trade are currently being run down, and are now ‘available while stocks last’.

• We will be re-launching some of these codes in a new format and we will let you know about this in due course.

• This will leave us with a Retail and Trade range that contains our most popular and fastest selling products.

All this will take place over the upcoming weeks, until then it’s business as usual!


Paul Dobson
Head of Sales
Emerging Markets and Capital Cities

Paul Dobson, Head of Sales wrote:• We will be re-launching some of these codes in a new format and we will let you know about this in due course.

That certainly sounds like resin is a strong possibility.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Paul Dobson, Head of Sales wrote:• We will be re-launching some of these codes in a new format and we will let you know about this in due course.

That certainly sounds like resin is a strong possibility.

Although 'format change' in this context could also mean "repackaging" or similar. Maybe move to less blisters, more boxes, and do "Heroes of X" boxes that have a bunch of the special characters, etc. for an army sold together in a box at one low (not really) price point.

ironicsilence wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I agree.

The number of newbies who buy specialist games must be tiny. Presumably veterans have by now bought what they want or aren't interested.

There is zero ambition within GW for promoting old or new SG titles. They have been left to wither on the vine for several years.

Yep, I cant imagine those games are generating sales, I'd suspect GW still sells them because they still have stock in the items. Not sure if GW (or if its even possible) has an sort of process to melt down old models to reuse the materials

I played some Necromunda this year as a new player. I didn't buy SG models, but I did buy a couple of boxes of IG and Fantasy Empire Flagellants to make some fanatics. You can keep on using the SG rules with regular models. They drove me to spend some extra cash, even without buying actual SG models.

d-usa wrote:
I played some Necromunda this year as a new player. I didn't buy SG models, but I did buy a couple of boxes of IG and Fantasy Empire Flagellants to make some fanatics. You can keep on using the SG rules with regular models. They drove me to spend some extra cash, even without buying actual SG models.

Unfortunately Epic, BFG, Warmaster, and Battle of Five Armies are not 28mm scale games. You could scale them up and use different models, but it is just not the same using a steam tank as a lunar class cruiser.

Kroothawk wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/360231.page

And the retooling makes sense for many, as the metagame needs those miniatures and a resculpt would cost more.

Where does it state that the new models will be made of resin?

On a side note I spoke to GW and GW corporate and both stated that they are not switching to resin, and this type of rumour happens every year as they go and make room for "floor" space for retail/gw stores for the new products and the other products are just moved to direct. Its a standard procedure to world over, since floor space is a premium , and you want to push the newest product more so then the products you have already paid for all the tool and die for.