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So wait, if I bought a Finecost product and was disappointed with the quality (because I ended up with a gak model like these other guys did), then I'm just being "ungrateful"?

Sidstyler wrote:So wait, if I bought a Finecost product and was disappointed with the quality (because I ended up with a gak model like these other guys did), then I'm just being "ungrateful"?

No, you'd also being lying, because there is no way you got an awesome finecast model with any flaws in it. It's got fine right in the name, for pete's sakes.

I'll say this just now, especially to GW white knights.

This is a GIANT and arrogant step taken by GW. If they want to convince anyone to accept the price increase , and the supposed "upgraded material" you bet they'll do as much as they can to make sure their first release will go as smoothly as they can.
Why are people saying they'll get better as time goes on? Umm , GW isnt new , they certainly have FW for a long time. And they certainly have done enough tests to be confident enough to release this product line.

So far , no one can spot a difference in detail between the 2 materials , remember , metal reacts different to light and photography which gives the illusion they are more rounded than resin. This is NOT true , the edge of the light they catch just diffuses the light making it look more rounded aka less detailed.

"Less preparation" , not true. The time you spend getting rid of the flashes , filling in the bubbles , bend back the warped resins , im sure its more time consuming than just filling what little flash metal has. Infact , metal miniatures almost have no flash AT ALL. the lines most of the time are misaligned parts of the 2 sides.

Pricing: They cost more than metal thats for sure. But how about their durability and worth? Metal can stand up to lots of beating, and can be stripped down easily by almost any chemicals. With resin you have to be more careful , not to mention while scrubbing them.

Fine cast is a gimic. The whole GW's sale strategy now is tailored towards compulsive buys. Why?

because.
compulsive buys can over come reasoning and logic. Aslong as something is hot , people will flock to it. Thats why GW stopped previews, less time for people to come to their senses / debate / criticize about the product.

Gimic , again, claiming their product to be superior , no dout justifying the expensive Fine Cast line , while attempting to give illusion that GW is a company with surperior products.

Want to know another example of this? Lexus cars.

Here's my question. Suppose I get q mini like the one in the photo above or with worse holes but not miscast as in half a head missing or a "melted" sword blade. Will GW replace the mini for me ?

shinzuer wrote:Here's my question. Suppose I get q mini like the one in the photo above or with worse holes but not miscast as in half a head missing or a "melted" sword blade. Will GW replace the mini for me ?

No, according to a recent assinine post you are an ingrate and an ungrateful whiner.

This statement has just been released by GW:

I would just like to say that Miscast will revolusionise Customer Services in the Hobby Industry.

Vast quantities of scrap plastic resin will not cause environmental harm as it will not break down until the year 41,000. Nottingham City Council have allocated a new landfill site specifically for our use to be paid for by council taxes, and in no way has anything to do with the 2012 Olympics 20.12% price rise on all GW products to celebrate this great sporting event.

If GW have QC problems that will add a big chunk to the costs if lots of miscasts need replacing.
GW will not wish to disappoint the Shareholders.* Guess who will be coughing up the cash for the wonderful customer care returns service if the worst case scenario does become reality?

* I used to think shareholders were her bras until Sonny put me to the wise.

I just picked up a Finecast Hive Tyrant and a Zoanthrope. I guess my FLGS did not get the memo about the release date. All I can tell you is that these are just lovely! Great details on both, zero flashing on the Zoanthrope, some minor mould lines. I was worried about the boxed Tyrant, since I could not see inside, but it is just fine. Just minor flashing around the very small spikes, all other pieces flash free. All the sprues are straight. I could not see any bubbles or imperfections. I will take a closer look later tonight when I get home. I am so happy with these.

penek wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
I wouldn't accept subpar manufacturing from a car company because subpar automobiles can cause accidents which kill people and I wouldn't accept it from a local dining establishment because there's standards that have to be upheld.

So you think that airbubbled, bended, something that need a lots of additional work (in comparison to metal) - are standards for more superior product (again in comparison to metal)?
You logic or standards are highly flawed...

I'm not saying that airbubbles are acceptable. But bends are a ridiculous thing for people to whine about considering how easy they are to fix. The airbubbles in the photograph that GW posted were practically non-existent.
They're the kinds of stuff that you can fix with simply running a bit of Mr. Surfacer, Cyanoacrylate superglue with gap filling properties or Squadron Putty onto it.
And frankly: anyone who says that resin needs "a lot of additional work (in comparison to metal)" is full of gak. I'm not meaning "oh you're full of it you silly goose!", I mean you're so freaking full of it it's leaking out your ears.
Metal is stupidly annoying to work with and anyone who says it's a breeze is lying through their teeth.

H.B.M.C. wrote:So not only does your pathological need to defend GW against any and all criticism see you here, once again in the trenches, fighting bitterly against anyone who would DARE to question the quality of Finecost - but now you're even going so far as to insinuate that the guy who did the original review did so with the express purpose of defaming/mocking/criticising GW?

Yes, because that's so unbelievable in the week after they practically pimpslapped the gamer population. And considering the fact that the guy's blister had no sales tag on it, and he posted it almost three days ago when the shipments were supposed to start arriving and it starts to not actually seem too ridiculous.

Maybe I just need to cut back on working with Squadron putty. That Toluene will get to your head.

What fantasy land do you live in Kan? Really???

One where I prefer to remain as optimistic as possible and haven't been completely screwed over by the company that is responsible for a hobby I've sunk most of my time into.
It's kind of nice. And involves a lot of booze.

Ouze wrote:I think it's pretty clear and both sides were considered equally and fairly. When this guy posted them, he had obviously carefully picked out the worst looking miniature so he could make GWS look bad, and when GWS posted them up on the site, they just closed their eyes and randomly fished in the barrel for whatever they got, and it just so happened they were all flawless (because they all all, really - that one that was posted that showed a hole in in was obviously photoshopped by some hacker who jacked into the GWS mainframe and posted it there to embarrass them).

I had to actually look for the hole you're talking about. Are you sure it's supposed to be solid on the metal?

I will agree though that of course GW was looking for the best sculpts possible. But I'd prefer to remain optimistic and put it down to some jerks on the internet trying to stir up shenanigans.

GWS is obviously going to paint their products in the best light possible, and the ingrates they sell them to will always make them look terrible because, well, ungrateful whiners are going to whine. I don't see why you find this confusing.

I didn't say ingrates or ungrateful whiners. Like I said though something just seems really off about this.

thebadabwar wrote:I just picked up a Finecast Hive Tyrant and a Zoanthrope. I guess my FLGS did not get the memo about the release date. All I can tell you is that these are just lovely! Great details on both, zero flashing on the Zoanthrope, some minor mould lines. I was worried about the boxed Tyrant, since I could not see inside, but it is just fine. Just minor flashing around the very small spikes, all other pieces flash free. All the sprues are straight. I could not see any bubbles or imperfections. I will take a closer look later tonight when I get home. I am so happy with these.

Another person with two posts extolling the virtues of Finecost. This keeps happening.

I don't want to scream 'plant' yet... but it is weird.

Kanluwen wrote:, because that's so unbelievable in the week after they practically pimpslapped the gamer population. And considering the fact that the guy's blister had no sales tag on it, and he posted it almost three days ago when the shipments were supposed to start arriving and it starts to not actually seem too ridiculous.

You are mad. The review is a positive review.

That said, it's not 100% positive though - it's a review that involves a level of criticism - and this must be why you're making accusations of the OP, because GW is 100% infallible in your eyes and can not and should not be criticised ever.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Another person with two posts extolling the virtues of Finecost. This keeps happening.

I don't want to scream 'plant' yet... but it is weird.

I will agree with you on that.

Just like someone with 22 posts somehow being the first US member to post photos of Finecast stuff, who miraculously missed the stupidly deformed storm bolter in a clear package on the biggest sprue in the package.

thebadabwar wrote:I just picked up a Finecast Hive Tyrant and a Zoanthrope. I guess my FLGS did not get the memo about the release date. All I can tell you is that these are just lovely! Great details on both, zero flashing on the Zoanthrope, some minor mould lines. I was worried about the boxed Tyrant, since I could not see inside, but it is just fine. Just minor flashing around the very small spikes, all other pieces flash free. All the sprues are straight. I could not see any bubbles or imperfections. I will take a closer look later tonight when I get home. I am so happy with these.

Update:

There is a 1mm mould shift on the sprue with the Tyrant’s head and all those pieces are messed up, especially the head. ARGH!!! We’ll see if customer service is open tomorrow and what their response will be. The Zoanthrope is perfect on all accounts.

Well if he is a plant, he's a pretty bad one.

thebadabwar wrote:

thebadabwar wrote:I just picked up a Finecast Hive Tyrant and a Zoanthrope. I guess my FLGS did not get the memo about the release date. All I can tell you is that these are just lovely! Great details on both, zero flashing on the Zoanthrope, some minor mould lines. I was worried about the boxed Tyrant, since I could not see inside, but it is just fine. Just minor flashing around the very small spikes, all other pieces flash free. All the sprues are straight. I could not see any bubbles or imperfections. I will take a closer look later tonight when I get home. I am so happy with these.

Update:

There is a 1mm mould shift on the sprue with the Tyrant’s head and all those pieces are messed up, especially the head. ARGH!!! We’ll see if customer service is open tomorrow and what their response will be. The Zoanthrope is perfect on all accounts.

Post some pics if you can, I know I'd be interested in looking at them

Kanluwen wrote:Just like someone with 22 posts somehow being the first US member to post photos of Finecast stuff, who miraculously missed the stupidly deformed storm bolter in a clear package on the biggest sprue in the package.

People don't see what they're not looking for Kan. It's not reasonable to expect such a miscast, so you wouldn't notice it just in passing. What's far more likely is that the OP got the clamshell and immediately opened it to see what it was like rather than scouring the racks to find one that was horribly miscast.

Darth Bob wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
. . . what will happen if you leave your carry case full of minis in your car on a hot summer's day?

That tends to be a bad idea in general. I've seen plastic models get warped from being left in cars during hot summer days, not to mention paint chips off/rubs off metal more easily if it's been left in the heat for too long.

I'm glad someone pointed this out. I've had a plastic base that slipped out of a box get warped in a few hours on a summer day in a car. No one suggested that there should be no plastic models because of this, did they?

Also, as I understand most resin, the resin softens when heated, and then hardens into the new shape when cooled. That is not a single one-time change. If you forget a resin model in the car (UNLIKE A PLASTIC ONE), then you can heat the model again, move it back into the proper shape, and cool it down. Fixed.

I'm not a total defender of this new resin, but the fact that you CAN find bad casts doesn't tell you how many bad casts there are.

I'm just skeptical about the new material. I'll gladly buy it if it corresponds to the quality I'm used to getting, but the prospect of possibly having more trouble than I used to with metal miniatures bugs me.

Obviously the reviews we've had so far do not constitute enough sample for us to say outright how bad the casting quality for Finecast, but they do show some problems that could possibly stop me from buying if they aren't properly sorted out.

Looking at things my way, I don't have an FLGS or any official stores around. I have to buy from online sites, and I'm not too keen on having to wait some more for a miniature that was badly cast. What if I get another miscast? That's just some of the stuff worrying me.

puma713 wrote:
What's more alarming to me is that I have to inspect a new product for miscasts anyway. What about items that aren't blisters? How would one go about making sure they're not buying a defective product? I, as a consumer, should not be worried about the new product I'm going to buy before I've even bought it.

While I agree that this is in particular is probably a storm in a teacup, it doesn't make it any less alarming or frustrating.

Seriously? You, as a consumer, should not have to inspect a product for flaws?

I'm all for a quality product. I am willing to believe that Finecast may be such, or may not be such. It may be the case that Finecast has too many bad castings, or that GW will not replace bad castings as they have in the past. Those would all be valid things to complain about.

But to argue that as a consumer, you deserve companies able to produce items with ZERO flaws? Ridiculous. As a consumer, you should recognize that you might buy something that is defective, even if it comes in a case. You might buy a busted LCD TV. You might get a car with a bad sensor or computer. You might order some shoes off the internet and they are the wrong size. It happens all the time in every industry. The company should replace it. The company should minimize those occurreces.

But to argue that GW, as a company, should be able to produce 100% perfect models every single time (so you don't have to inspect them for miscasts) is totally unrealistic. They have NEVER produced models which were always 100% perfect. Why should they be able to do so in resin?

I am sure there is nothing suspect about someone who orders 20 Finecast models before seeing a single one.

Very trusting of GW unlike certain cynical Dakkanauts I could name.

Yes Chibi I am looking at you!

Who sir? me sir?

Ah if only I had sufficient rhino to consider such an act, why all the useful stuff I could do with such tin.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

But to argue that GW, as a company, should be able to produce 100% perfect models every single time (so you don't have to inspect them for miscasts) is totally unrealistic. They have NEVER produced models which were always 100% perfect. Why should they be able to do so in resin?

Because GW never, repeat NEVER, make mistakes.


apparently

Kanluwen wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Another person with two posts extolling the virtues of Finecost. This keeps happening.

I don't want to scream 'plant' yet... but it is weird.

I will agree with you on that.

Just like someone with 22 posts somehow being the first US member to post photos of Finecast stuff, who miraculously missed the stupidly deformed storm bolter in a clear package on the biggest sprue in the package.

Perhaps because nobody ever actually takes a storm bolter on that unit in game? I honestly didn't even know the kit came with one until now.

Or could this have been a pre-production run product, not meant for sale but as a demonstration, if it then it still a very bad job.

The one thing that has me worried and that is the critique suggests that it does not handle heat well.

I have no A/C so i can't then shove my resin figures in the fridge during summer, that defeats the purpose.

But having said that, i'll get one just to satisfy my curiosity.

Achaylus72 wrote:Or could this have been a pre-production run product, not meant for sale but as a demonstration, if it then it still a very bad job.

The one thing that has me worried and that is the critique suggests that it does not handle heat well.

I have no A/C so i can't then shove my resin figures in the fridge during summer, that defeats the purpose.

But having said that, i'll get one just to satisfy my curiosity.

This is something I raised elsewhere.

I live in a place where temperatures in Summer reach 42 degrees Celcius... not Farenheit... the instability of this material is highly unfavourable.

Am still concerned about the provenance of this model
Not sure, but would a faulty demo piece would be packaged as per sale items, if indeed it was?

We could apply Occam's Razor here.

What is more likely:

1. The OP went out of his way to find a faulty demo piece specifically so he could show the world how terrible Finecost is... and then wrote a generally positive review.
2. The OP got a standard off-the-shelf model early and did a positive review.


I'll give you all 20 seconds to think about it.

*cue Jeopardy music*

Da Butcha wrote:

puma713 wrote:
What's more alarming to me is that I have to inspect a new product for miscasts anyway. What about items that aren't blisters? How would one go about making sure they're not buying a defective product? I, as a consumer, should not be worried about the new product I'm going to buy before I've even bought it.

While I agree that this is in particular is probably a storm in a teacup, it doesn't make it any less alarming or frustrating.

Seriously? You, as a consumer, should not have to inspect a product for flaws?

I guess I should've been more specific. Flaws are one thing. Too much flash, a metal staff bent a bit, a little warping on the sprue, etc - those are forgiveable and can be remedied fairly quickly. But to have to inspect an item because half of a storm bolter is missing? Having to inspect an item that I may have to heat up with a blowdryer, then freeze again? They can do better than that and to say that they can't because they're not perfect is somehow justifying their poor quality control.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

Because GW never, repeat NEVER, make mistakes.


apparently

puma713 wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:

puma713 wrote:
What's more alarming to me is that I have to inspect a new product for miscasts anyway. What about items that aren't blisters? How would one go about making sure they're not buying a defective product? I, as a consumer, should not be worried about the new product I'm going to buy before I've even bought it.

While I agree that this is in particular is probably a storm in a teacup, it doesn't make it any less alarming or frustrating.

Seriously? You, as a consumer, should not have to inspect a product for flaws?

I guess I should've been more specific. Flaws are one thing. Too much flash, a staff bent a bit, a little warping on the sprue, etc - those are forgiveable and can be remedied fairly quickly. But to have to inspect an item because half of a storm bolter is missing? Having to inspect an item that I may have to heat up with a blowdryer, then freeze again? They can do better than that and to say that they can't because they're not perfect is justifying their poor quality control.

They can do better, but they haven't been doing that good even in metal. To pretend that this is somehow 'omg how could this happen!' when it's a new medium is ridiculous.

GW's quality control sucks. This is not new. It is not acceptable either...But it is what it is, and it's easier to just deal with it and be optimistic.
I don't like working myself up into some murderous hatefrenzy about what is supposed to be my relaxation technique.

They can do better, but they haven't been doing that good even in metal.

Nope, the point was their metal is atleast better than the supposed "new and improved magic resin"

To pretend that this is somehow 'omg how could this happen!' when it's a new medium is ridiculous.

Again nope, you are missing the point of the Zomgness. Ppl arnt surprised about the medium change itself.
They are ZOmging about it changing into something with worse results.

GW's quality control sucks. This is not new. It is not acceptable either...But it is what it is, and it's easier to just deal with it and be optimistic.

Well thats why you are a GW apologist, customers should never "deal with" flaws or be optimistic or content about subpar casts. That kind of attitude is reserved for parents.

I don't like working myself up into some murderous hatefrenzy about what is supposed to be my relaxation technique.

Well , it MIGHT BE JUST ME, but.... when i want to relax, the last thing i want to see is tons of flash , air bubble , bent stuff.
INFACT all those extra prep time i need to take care of , is rather hatefrenzy murderous inducing.

Kanluwen wrote:
They can do better, but they haven't been doing that good even in metal. To pretend that this is somehow 'omg how could this happen!' when it's a new medium is ridiculous.

Wow, you folks must have had some bad experiences with their metal miniatures. There have been 2 flaws in recent memory with any of my metal models. One was a lictor that came with two left legs. Another one was a box of Howling Banshees that had a Legion of the Damned marine in it as well.

In neither case did I have to green stuff or rebuild any piece of the models. Other than that, I've had more trouble with the plastics than I have with the metals.

puma713 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
They can do better, but they haven't been doing that good even in metal. To pretend that this is somehow 'omg how could this happen!' when it's a new medium is ridiculous.

Wow, you folks must have had some bad experiences with their metal miniatures. There have been 2 flaws in recent memory with any of my metal models. One was a lictor that came with two left legs. Another one was a box of Howling Banshees that had a Legion of the Damned marine in it as well.

In neither case did I have to green stuff or rebuild any piece of the models. Other than that, I've had more trouble with the plastics than I have with the metals.

Agreed, and the problem you have listed isnt casting material's fault , its the human's fault that packaged it wrong.

UNLESS, some how the howling banshees were miscasterd so badly, it magically turned into Legion of the Damned marine. Then thats a MIRACLE!

Sarius wrote:About whoever said they probably "cherry-picked" the best model for their finecast articles on the website,.. anyone else notice this?



A rather big hole... I've got a skulltaker next to me (metal) and it's meant to be solid...

I'm kinda worried about this new material.

Did you notice the broken spine piece between his fingers, and the air pots along the cape edging. . . Oh, gah, and the damage to the trophy skull on his right hip?

Fetterkey wrote:Perhaps because nobody ever actually takes a storm bolter on that unit in game? I honestly didn't even know the kit came with one until now.

Why does this matter? It's part of the kit so regardless it should be a good cast. Am I to assume then I don't deserve to have a few extra well molded bits for conversions because it's not ever used on the unit it came with? I find it ludicrous that the apologists are vehemently attacking the OP yet they are 'holding judgement' on finecast because they don't want to waste their 'energy' being negative towards GW?!? Number of posts shouldn't dictate/validate a persons' opinion and for the OP he gave a pretty even handed review while overall pointing out both flaws and benefits.

GW is the one that set the bar on their product and if it doesn't live up to their hype they are dead and buried. So far, it's impossible to judge how the product will perform in the real world; however, we'll know within the next week. There are very valid issues with this product, certainly enough that would prevent me from buying it, if I were inclined to give GW any money in the first place.