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If my memory serves me...

If you have a faulty product and return it for an exchange,

the faulty product is written off as a loss for tax purposes.

So perhaps the reason for the so called "bad castings" is the following.

If you buy and keep it due to small imperfections, GW wins.

If you return it to get another similar item then GW financially wins as well.

What a great way to getting rid of your "slightly flawed product" and maximize the profit aspect it as well.

Then again I could be wrong.

I do think that the newer batches will have less imperfections.

But as I have stated before this is NOT want concerns me.

My point of view is the ability to easily strip the model off o of paint.

Of course I don't think that is the case either Kanners
and the problem is you were quoting me out of context, which suggests that I do.

I am in agreement with the rushed deadline issue and GW not going through the process more methodically than they seeemed to have done.

People complained? How many? rhetorical question as am sure you weren't counting.
People can be lots or a few. There will always be some complaints, just don't drag the argument out everytime.

If some did complain at freebies then for shame. Let them send the freebies to me, I ain't so proud as to look a gift marine in the helmet

(Why does that sound so wrong?)
or is it better that I don't look a marine in the helmet?

I don't know about the stripping, you might find that the resin is discoloured from the primer but I can't see there being too many problems using poducts safe with plastic. I picked up an Astorath and it has no problems what so ever. WHW was pretty spare of blisters by the time I left today.

I can't wait for the finecast range! Loads of models that I haven't bought due to them being metal and hard to assemble have been re-made into this, hopefully easier to assemble, resin. Also, the detail is stunning! They're not as expensive as I thought they'd be either

KnightOfTheRaven wrote:
The point im trying to make is If you think its so bad. Make your own models and then say that its rubbish.

This is one of the most ridiculous defenses of the GW apologists I have read. And it almost always comes up at least once.

You bought a lemon off a car lot? Well, make your own car, then you can complain! Really? I don't want to make my own miniatures. I want to pay someone a premium price to make nice miniatures for me. That means I can't be unhappy with the result because I don't make my own? Welcome to Logic 101.

And what is all the crap about it being a 'test batch'? Did we hear any of that from GW.com? No, you know what we heard? We heard about the most detailed, finely crafted models that will revolutionize the industry. And you're defending it as if it were a 'test batch'. Why would a 'test batch' be sold as product anyway? Do video game companies sell Alphas in the box? If you bought Dawn of War II Alpha and nothing had skins on it and the controls didn't work, would you say, "Well, it's just the Alpha batch. I'm sure it'll get better."

That's right, you can't complain because you don't program video games.

Hello Folks,

As promised, some pics and words on the finecast carnosaur. (i will also post this in the other thread)

First, the pics:












Ok i hope i did that right and the images show up

So thoughts from that.

The good:

* Looking over the carnosaur, fairly quickly, while I did notice a couple mold lines, nothing big that I can't fix up. Similar to mold lines on FW stuff and other resin models I've gotten before (although not as clean as the Ilyad resin minotaur i got some time ago)
* the scales and teeth ARE better defined and the edges are sharper (see note below in "the bad" section)
* model is of course lighter (big plus for those of us who carry lots of models around whenever we go play)
* the ropes that hold some of the armour onto the dinosaur ARE better defined (see note below in "the bad" section") which is good
* areas before, where metal filled in gaps between claws, and thus it was hard to remove it to make the claws defined individually have the same issue BUT now can easily be fixed since this plesin is much easier to cut/remove/sand, etc (plesin = plastic resin)
* the teeth and eye area on kroq-gar himself are very well defined (his teeth are very sharp, where the metal ones just aren't as sharp, but they are still fairly well defined on the metal version)
* NO miscast areas, NO distorted areas (even the weapon shaft is the same as the metal one, which already had slight bend in it so this is the same), and no missing areas (like the librarian foot area) -- probably the best finecast model reviewed so far in terms of damage/distortion/etc

the bad:

* while the teeth, scale edges, etc are better defined, i'm not sure this matters. Most animal scales aren't as sharply defined as a metal blade... i don't think this will matter to most people
* there is one small air bubble area below the nose plates, above the teeth/gumline. BUT due to the textures on the carnosaur face area, it actually doesn't look out of place so I may just leave it
* there was a bit of rubber stuck in that air bubble gap. wasn't easy to remove it...it kept elastically springing back (had to use 2 sharp knife blades as chop sticks to remove it)
* the ropes on the metal version were already well defined; i can see each rope strand already, so while this is sharper, it won't make much difference to most people (ie. if you enter golden demons, I would suggest using this finecast carnosaur instead of the metal one; if you play games and just games, get whichever is cheaper, unless weight is an issue for your carry case)
* the way the sprues are made, lots of areas to cut and sand but the actual gates, etc do not go into the detail so once you cut/sand it off, no issues

I can add more comments later, if people ask for specifics -- from someone who is more of a painter, commission painter, and D&D player (ie. i like monsters) , I think finecast is great for larger models. monsters, etc don't have as much fidly details that can get ruined (as we see with stern, librarian, etc) and the sharper details on teeth, eye sockets, etc does make that slight difference. Being lighter makes me along happy with this plesin version.

BUT, I did check out an opened nurgle daemon prince (the cool fat one from few years ago)...while I could see some better details on the arms, etc (I've painted 2 metal ones before, so am familiar with the model), there were some areas where cleaning up mold lines, etc, unless you are very experienced, will cause model damage.

A final comment: I do not think this is for inexperienced modellers. The very fact that the store kept stressing to me, not to use files, etc (NOTE: i tried a file on it, it's fine as long as you are gentle) makes me feel that you have to be very careful with these. Some models people had, mold lines were in areas that a slight error and well, you better be a decent sculptor I would not give this to a younger sibling to work from scratch. I would clean it up first; wash it, etc, sand it, file it, whatever you want...THEN cut it up and modify as they want and give to them to paint instead. The risk of damage, IMHO, is too high, for those who aren't used to cutting up costly FW models or other european collector company models. (for example, mine has a mold line over the nose armour and snout area...if you screw that up, you can damage part of the head as it's quite a visible and large mold line. For me, it's easy to remove and any damage, I can easily resculpt it (Note, I'm not a good sculptor like Allan C or Remy Tremblant or something, but I'm sure I'd be considered an advanced modeller/painter), but i'd feel bad if due to my comments, someone thought it was ok to buy the model and started working on it in a rush without assessing it completely first with close inspection and planning what to do and how to do it. PLEASE ASSESS THE MODEL FIRST...ALL ANGLES, etc. The way you would a hot girl hehehe

So, I would like to pick up some more models, but will only due so online or from retailers with the normal discount. i really think I got one of the better casts here; as most people seem to be having issues but again, i think that is cause large monsters probably cast easier.
Ask away if you need more details...I'll check again incase I missed a huge error in the cast, but i didn't see one yet.

NOTE: the mold line over the nose, I didn't label that as a BAD, cause with all the mold lines I've seen in different types of models, it's almost always gonna go over some important section; the fact that mold lines exist, we can't really help, so that to me is nothing extra bad.

Regards,

Sanjay

Captain Jack wrote: WHW was pretty spare of blisters by the time I left today.

They were all in the stockroom in the 'Returns' bin.

Ouze wrote:It looks like at least some of the worst miscasting was on the backs of the feet, which are obscured by the front of the packaging. Also, I think you're assuming he bought 6, and I think what he meant was, he had them open 6 until he found this one, which was the best.

Lmao, that is not what I assumed at all

He obviously inspected 6 blisters and bought the "best" one. What I said is that is doesn't matter if you check 1, 6 or 20 blisters, if they are all unacceptable then there should be 0 purchases IMO. Those pictures show so much wrong with the front of that miniature to make it's backside irrelevant.

If everybody will just refuse to buy and/or send back unacceptable casts, and there really are that many of them as claimed, then GW should definitely take notice.

I've seen two boxes of Incubi that were missing an entire model. Fortunately the Bunker gave me one of theirs as a replacement. No miscasts in them that I've noticed, so that's good.

I got Astorath today, and I have to say that I'm absolutely blown away by it! The details and crispness of the ridged armour is like nothing I've ever seen before. I didn't check the model before I bought it, but I have to say that I honestly can't see anything at all wrong with my purchase. I'm really really pleased and certainly look forward to getting more Citadel Finecast models.

However, I do happen to know that of the 6 clam packs of the Jump Pack Chaplain which my store received, they were all bought and subsequently returned by the same person due to casting defects. In the end the store let him keep the model and replaced it with the Librarian. He wasn't at all happy.

Anyone had issues with this particular model?

Why dont you like the weight of metal?

Im not fond of the finecast, I like metal.

im very sad to see such a terribel product.

im lost for words as i hang my head in disapointment.

so heres what im gathering, go to your local store, find the model you whant and the other five blisters of the same model, go through them make one complete model from your findings in those 5 blister packs.

at this point, you should have a good model,take the other shotty models to the front desk tell the clerk to send them back due to failed molds.

so.....buying gw products have become a war game in themselves.

hope this is just a first batch flaw,and they get better.

thanks for this thread

im a very sad ork player was really hopeing to get gaz in a light weight resin............ :(

pixelpusher wrote:Even back when I bought RTB01 you were advised to clean your minis before painting them. As well as filling any gaps or defects with Milliput (no green stuff back then) or similar. It's weird you haven't heard of that until now.

That was nearly 25 years ago, this is now! GW are now (if you have not heard of this until now ) a huge billion-pound multinational company with over 30 years of reputation to live up to. These defects should have been sorted out ages ago.

Also, if I hear one more mention of "crisp" i'm going to storm GW HQ with a sock full of several metal Stegadons and 6th ed. Steam Tanks. Iverald on Warseer explains the scoptoma going on here:

mechanicalhorizon do correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the impression of "crisp" detail (sorry, Korraz ) is caused by three factors:

1) Remade moulds (just an assumption of mine) this may be true in the case of older models which had not their moulds replaced, resulting in decreased detail definition. My Coteaz, repackaged for the release of new C:GK had awfully grainy/rough surfaces where they should be smooth. New Failcast moulds fixed this problem, hence one impression factor.

2) Probably the most important one, the colour. Grey is, for all intents and purposes neutral, giving a much better contrast than unpainted metallic surfaces and therefore creating an illusion of increased depth and making details more visible. Many world-class miniature painters use grey primers, one of the reasons for this is exactly the increased contrast making it easier to give the model the desired lighting.

3) Inextricably connected with 2), the porousness. A resin miniature refracts light very differently than a metallic surface, which sometimes comes out smooth, reflecting light rather than refracting it. Result? Same as in 2).

In conclusion, probably the most fair way to compare metal and resin miniatures (that are not miscast) is to lightly prime them grey (not obscuring detail), so we can get an uniform colour and similar visual properties.

If there is any physicist out there please feel free to bash me for any misconceptions above.

Agreed with that quote from warseer. As I was reading the lizardman model review I was thinking to myself how much easier it would be if it was primed grey.

Lunahound also made some pertinent comments about how details look different on metal models when photographed.

When BoW review metals they assemble them and give a wash to enable the details to be seen.
Grey primer is a sound suggestion imho

ph34r wrote:Agreed with that quote from warseer. As I was reading the lizardman model review I was thinking to myself how much easier it would be if it was primed grey.

Agreed, take a look at this Warseer thread about a frigging Piscean Warrior from RT. One of the posters notes how much detail on the model was unseen until a painted version was shown.

So much for "crispness" if a near 25 year old metal model simply looks less detailed due to being made of a reflective material. Go figure.

ph34r - yes, as i took the shots, i realized that metal doesn't photograph well.

What I did for the edges, was i ran a brush and blade against the scales and then with a quick nudge, it feels like it was almost catching on the edge. That implied, to me, a sharper edge than a rounded, softer one.

and looking VERY closely at it, you can see that they are sharper even though the pics don't shot it well.

However, while I like that added, detail it's not THAT big a deal i think. It can be if all you care about is the best possible cast/detail. Overall, if you like metal, this won't make you change your mind. The models aren't THAT different.

Sanjay

All these reports about miscasts make me seriously want to stay away from these at least until the situation goes back to normal. I just cant imagine the hassle I'd have to go through if I wanted to return a mini to them if it was miscast, since we don't have an official GW shop here.

@StarFyre Thanks for the review mate, got to be the most informed review so far and it gives me a bit of hope in the future of this line... In a world of bad reviews is good to see a decent cast and a positive transition from metal to resin ( I believe bigger and bulkier miniatures are the way to go with this material).
I like to see that the other side of the coin is still present on this range and that not everything was badly casted.

Tough break, see if you can get a replacement.

What about the size compared to metals? Especially seen from the side, is there reduction, increase or the same size?

ronin1973 wrote:What about the size compared to metals? Especially seen from the side, is there reduction, increase or the same size?

From what i've heard it is negligable, about a 1/3 of a mm IIRC.

size compare: maybe it's just me...but they appear the same size... i don't have proper tools for fine measurement here, so can't help for exact measurements.

I would say they are the same size or VERY close.

Oh, another BAD:

I kinda got this pt across but diidn't say it outright.

As i clean up the mold lines, this plesin is even more fragile than i thought. No, i did not mess up, but it takes so little force, even for the thicker mold lines. This is good for me, easier to clean up mold issues, but bad for those who are impatient or inexperienced.

People like Navarro prob won't care - good enough to be able to deal with any material he is given.

Sanjay

Please don't say plesin
or rastic
the portmanteaus just sound awful

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Please don't say plesin
or rastic
the portmanteaus just sound awful

How about crapcast?

KnightOfTheRaven wrote:People who whine about the Finecast models - Why? So what you have to spend a few more minutes fixing something but A - These are GW first Batch so they are a test Run. B - YOU will buy these models when you want a character or something so deal with it. And C - Stop finding the bad stuff and thinking its the end of the goddamn world.

Troll. He's got four posts and he's spewing garbage like this? I'm calling it.

Either that or he's a kid, and doesn't understand that companies are required by law to replace faulty or defective product, and that as a paying customer I have a right to complain if a product doesn't live up to it's name and the quality isn't up to the level promised to me. This isn't a case of poor little GW getting picked on by the big bad fanbase, they aren't worth sticking up for here and we're not the bad guys.

Crapstic

It's like lipstic only you put it on your a...nyway you get the idea

Was invented by Mr Wells because he was so used to having people kiss his a...s before you get the picture.

Tried to keep up with this thread, read every post up til page 15 but, after that I've just skimmed to pictures.

There's something I'd like to see, that, I would do if I didn't have to wait to get paid, but if someone *could* (Don't go out of your way) - Could you post up a cleaned up + primed black (or white) miniature in both Metal + "Finecast" - Don't tell us which one is which, just call it Model A and Model B. See how many people can guess correctly.

I'd be interested to see, once the pictures are "fair" being the same colour, if there is enough difference that we can tell, or whether they are the same.

I found the emphasis by GW not to use metal files on the Finecast product to be a little perplexing. I use a metal file on both their plastic and metal models so when I read that I was disappointed because I find a file to be the best way to get rid of certain types of mould lines. I picked up a Hive Guard model today from my LGS and tested out the file I had on the extra resin sprue. Didn't seem to do any major damage to the sprue so I tried it out on the model itself and it worked like a charm. I mean, I used way less pressure than I would on metal (and probably plastic too), but I don't understand why they emphasis not to use a metal file.

Otherwise, sort of a mixed bag for me. The lightness of the product is crazy - I am thinking four resin HGs would weigh less than one metal one. I noticed two bubbles/missing resin on the FC one and I don't recall any such issues with the metal one. Clean up was way faster on the FC one, and I only noticed about half as many "burrs" on the FC one. So well I don't mind the product, I don't know how GW is going off on how amazing it is. I guess they are trying to justify the insane price increases? The cost of the Hive Guard has gone from $24.00 to $29.75 which I think is a little insane.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Crapstic

It's like lipstic only you put it on your a...nyway you get the idea

Was invented by Mr Wells because he was so used to having people kiss his a...s before you get the picture.

I actually met Mr. Wells today... no joke,.. dropped into the Games Workshop Burton store because he didn't want to bother with the hassle at Warhammer World, and the manager at the Nottingham store was ill, so Burton was his 2nd closest. He's a real down to earth, genuinely nice guy. Bought a bunch of stuff too .