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It's Official!
Wells has gone for a Burton!

Kilkrazy wrote:
Clearly there are some defects in some of the examples but overall the models are not "terrible". Metal also suffers from occasional casting problems and sometimes needs to be filled with putty. People should check their purchases and return badly defective samples for a refund.

Yeah, having just done a bunch of metal models, I think that these are really a wash in terms of overall quality. Metal has some issues (pitting is one that I've noticed quite a bit of late in GW casts), resin has bubbles. You can work with either.

I'm not convinced about the claim that detail is much superior to metal. I have too many Infinity and Studio McVey models to think that metal and resin can't display equally good detail.

Looking side-by-side at the same model in new resin and old metal, the detail on the resin models is clearer. I have no qualms about making this statement. The detail on the new resin is sharper than on the same metal model painted too.

Wolfstan wrote:GW are uping the price of their models, yet you have to do more work with them!?! Since when is it ok to have to "filll in the small air holes" or "wash the model" before painting? Why should people even feel the need to suggest an ultrasonic cleaner, even though it is a useful tip.

I'm absolutely gobsmacked that people are even saying these things. "A little bit of filler and it will be ok". Are you bloody mad? They tell us it's a cheaper material, but up the price and then produce models that have more flaws than the metal figures.

They do not have more flaws, they have different flaws. I'm pretty experienced with modelling, it took me less time to prep the resin model than the metal one. Filling small air holes isn't a big deal. On metal models you have to drill pin holes. I wash all my metal models to get rid of mold release agents. The switch to resin here is a non-factor.

Kilkrazy wrote:I agree there is an issue with them describing the models as the best in the world. They aren't. But they aren't terrible, either.

They've got the sharpest detail on any mass produced figures that I've seen. McVey limited edition resin models and some FW models are roughly equal, in my opinion. If the definition of 'best of the world' is sharpest detail, then so be it. I think that avoiding casting errors should be considered though, and on that level, these aren't the best in the world. But, they're good. My friend picked up an ogre shaggoth (or some such thing) and he had no casting issues either, I got to see it when he stopped by for some gaming.

warboss wrote:
In over 10,000pts of metal models (at least 6,000pts of which I still own), I've never had a casting defect with a metal GW model. While I've consistently complained about their price increases and business decisions, I've never complained about the quality of their metal casting (the sculpting is occasionally ugly but the casting of that ugly sculpt has always been dead on). ...

Lucky you. I've had several. I've had pitting, most recently on the bottom of capes for crusaders. Pitting was also a problem with the metal juggernauts, behind the shoulderblades. They moved those to plastic though now. I've had molds that didn't fill in right, wires that did not fill or swords that had no tips. It happens. I never once had a problem that GW did not correct at their own cost. I've had miscasts from FW which they replaced without question. I've had missing parts in metal kits, and have been sent replacement kits at no cost. I've had miscasts replaced at no cost. I have no reason to believe that their policy will change in this regard.

Sarius wrote:Could you post up a cleaned up + primed black (or white) miniature in both Metal + "Finecast" - Don't tell us which one is which, just call it Model A and Model B. See how many people can guess correctly.

I am also curious, especially after seeing the Carnosaur..

I apologize if it was mentioned in one of the previous 19 or so pages of this topic (I have read up to about 10 give or take), but has anyone done a heat test on a FC model? Some of the concern of warping in a car or high heat has me a little worried. :-(

I apologize but I can't prime the metal carnosaur. It's for sale as an unpainted, basically new model...

BUT, if you live in Markham (toronto suburb), i can meet you sometime at a hobby shop (ie. Heroes World at hwy 7, warden) and show you the plesin version
(yes, i shall keep saying plesin DAMNIT!)



Sanjay

StarFyre wrote:I apologize but I can't prime the metal carnosaur. It's for sale as an unpainted, basically new model...

No apologies needed! I think it was a general "Can anybody post up a primed.. etc etc"

Picked up a few models, will try to have pictures later, but the immediate post-mortem:

Draigo: Left arm had a wisp of essentially flash where the armored ridge across the top of the shoulder should be, and the top of the tilt wasn't fully formed. Storm bolter had a huge bubble obliterating one of its forward edged. Banner had multiple bubbles on the ]I[ icon. Body had bubbles along the feet and book, a bubble instead one one of the rivets in the chest reliquary, and another such rivet replaced by a fat needle vent.

Marneus Calgar and Honor Guard: Bubbles, tear out, and scrubbiness everywhere. MC's legs had a huge cluster of bubbles removing part of the armor plate on the left hip, and one of the reinforcing ribs in the leg was just a wisp. One honor guard had a mm or mote of mold shift along his arm. Banner bearer has by bubbles in the banner that destroy the shape of detail, and some of his rope detail was more like thin string. Just some of the highlights there.

Canis Wolfborn: opened two myself, store opened the other two, all bad. Huge air bubbles (as in as much as a half-inch long) on the underside of the wolf. Armor ridging with gaps and breaks. Significant shift across detail (face, the skull on one of the wolf's shin plates). Blank junk material trapped in one of the blades of a wolf claw. The gem on Canis's belt disappearing into a wedge of tear out. The bones on one backpack not completely filled, and on the other the interior part of the "bone halo" is this filled in mess of junk. A brief perusal of blisters on the shelf turned up plenty of other significant issues: Huron with the bottom third of the round vents on his backpack gone. Logan with air bubbles destroying parts of his wolf bling and the arm of the wolf belt across his chest. Astorath with a torn out lump for his left eye. Stern with a solid lump between the back of his head and his armor, in one case with a nice lump of mold rubber wedged in there. In fact, I'd say at least 1 in 4, if not 1 in 3, of the models I looked at had at least some bit of mold material stuck to them.

If you guys want an accurate comparison between details of resin vs metal, you 100% need to prime it first.

This is why even with plastic ( none reflective ) materials , with proper lighting , it looks shaded.

But when it comes to metal , it turns into a glowy ball of light.

Think about it before you claim metal detail to be inferior.

Well I hope you get the taste of soap and plesin in your mouth everytime you say it Sanjay

You know what? I can just imagine the consternation if my wife were to read this thread. She already finds the hobby baffling (despite my best efforts) but to countenance paying £10-£15 for a single model? Even if it were sculpted out of solidified unicorn tears, it would make the parting of money difficult.

I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....

filbert wrote:You know what? I can just imagine the consternation if my wife were to read this thread. She already finds the hobby baffling (despite my best efforts) but to countenance paying £10-£15 for a single model? Even if it were sculpted out of solidified unicorn tears, it would make the parting of money difficult.

I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....

According to GW, video games core console + game = $500, which you can have warhammer full army for that same price.
And each game you play for 1 month before you dont need it anymore , but warhammer you can play it forever.


Which makes no sense to me. How do they assume that?

Maybe i can play my video game forever and i get bored of my warhammer army in 1 month?

Ohh~ see what i did there GW?

well that's uncalled for Chibi

Sanjay

filbert wrote:I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....

Video games are in no way cheaper. Most of them offer only a single player campaign around 7-8 hours long, which is not worth replaying. Very few offer multiplayer worth playing. Once you figure out that you're buying a video game at least once every month because these days they have no losting value whatsoever, you notice it is expensive. I should know, after spending about $10,000au on games and systems over the last 3-4 years.

Wargaming, even GW wargaming, does have some pretty good value for money, considering that 2000 point army in your cupboard doesn't have to be completely replaced regularly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

filbert wrote:You know what? I can just imagine the consternation if my wife were to read this thread. She already finds the hobby baffling (despite my best efforts) but to countenance paying £10-£15 for a single model? Even if it were sculpted out of solidified unicorn tears, it would make the parting of money difficult.

I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....

According to GW, video games core console + game = $500, which you can have warhammer full army for that same price.
And each game you play for 1 month before you dont need it anymore , but warhammer you can play it forever.


Which makes no sense to me. How do they assume that?

Maybe i can play my video game forever and i get bored of my warhammer army in 1 month?

Ohh~ see what i did there GW?

Honestly, they have it right. See above. But then, I don't find any value at all in replaying a single player game I just finished.

-Loki- wrote:

filbert wrote:I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....

Video games are in no way cheaper. Most of them offer only a single player campaign around 7-8 hours long, which is not worth replaying. Very few offer multiplayer worth playing. Once you figure out that you're buying a video game at least once every month because these days they have no losting value whatsoever, you notice it is expensive. I should know, after spending about $12,000au on games and systems over the last 3-4 years.

Wargaming, even GW wargaming, does have some pretty good value for money, considering that 2000 point army in your cupboard doesn't have to be completely replaced regularly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

filbert wrote:You know what? I can just imagine the consternation if my wife were to read this thread. She already finds the hobby baffling (despite my best efforts) but to countenance paying £10-£15 for a single model? Even if it were sculpted out of solidified unicorn tears, it would make the parting of money difficult.

I know its trite and a terrible cliche but if I were 11 years old again, I would be saying 'feth this, I'm getting an xbox game instead'. Not sure how GW can justify growth in the business at these prices, quality of casts notwithstanding. Its fething plastic for crying out loud....

According to GW, video games core console + game = $500, which you can have warhammer full army for that same price.
And each game you play for 1 month before you dont need it anymore , but warhammer you can play it forever.


Which makes no sense to me. How do they assume that?

Maybe i can play my video game forever and i get bored of my warhammer army in 1 month?

Ohh~ see what i did there GW?

Honestly, they have it right. See above. But then, I don't find any value at all in replaying a single player game I just finished.

-Each warhamer Unit cost the same as 1 brand new game

-7 to 8 hour game play? Wow the game i've played are over 50+ hours atleast , with Team Fortress 2 100+ hours
some people on Dakka played TF2 for 742.2 hrs on record. So yes i raise the 742 hours to counter your 7 hours.

LunaHound wrote:-Each warhamer Unit cost the same as 1 brand new game

Really? I mean, a Tactical squad is half the price of a video game over here. Horde army units tend to cost about the same though.

LunaHound wrote:-7 to 8 hour game play? Wow the game i've played are over 50+ hours atleast , with Team Fortress 2 100+ hours
some people on Dakka played TF2 for 742.2 hrs on record. So yes i raise the 742 hours to counter your 7 hours.

The same argument can be made for a unit of dudes in Warhammer. After you've played 20 or so games, you've got the same value to time spent using it ratio as you did spending 50 hours sitting there playing Team Fortress 2. The difference is every unit in your army gets that value, unlike video games only getting that out of multiplayer titles. Plus the hobby side, building and painting them, and you easily get more value out of a unit of warhammer dudes than a video game.

And, I also did mention multiplayer only titles being the exception. The very rare exception. The most recent Battlefield and Call of Duty titles, and the Valve multiplayer only titles, keep a healthly online community. Considering how many games are released per month, that's not a good percentage of games. Most are 7-8 hour single player games with no, or completely forgettable, multiplayer. The occasional open world game or RPG lasts about twice a normal game. And still, they're not as common anymore as the same old 7-8 hour shooterfest.

Really? I mean, a Tactical squad is half the price of a video game over here. Horde army units tend to cost about the same though.

Im glad you brought this point up because , Tac Squad in AUD is $62 , and why im glad? see below.

And, I also did mention multiplayer only titles being the exception. The very rare exception.

Which is very interesting since mostl single player focused games are infact CHEAPER than Tac squad ,
with the exception of Mulitplayer intended games which to be accurate with your "half the price of a video game"
Which you mention to be "rare exceptions" which again, are the ones with incredibly long hours of game play.



You cant simply substitute in the price of those rare exceptional games , and leave out the game hour's worth by then suddenly using a cheap single player game for comparison.
By doing that, it seems like you are conveniently subbing in and leaving out vital points just to attempt to favor GW.


:3 see what i did thar?

LunaHound wrote:Which makes no sense to me. How do they assume that?

Maybe i can play my video game forever and i get bored of my warhammer army in 1 month?

Ohh~ see what i did there GW?

Idiots who don't know crap about gaming. A good game will last you more than a month, some of them you could potentially end up playing for years after the fact.

And yeah, not hard to get bored with 40k. I have almost no desire to play the game anymore after the many "FAAC vs. WAAC" debates that never stop, rules arguments which never stop because the game is poorly written and GW clearly doesn't give a damn (because they already have your money, it's all business remember?), the feeling of sticker shock every single time I browse the models at the store which ultimately leads to me walking out with nothing or cheap, used D&D 4th edition books or Magic cards instead. Literally the only thing keeping me in right now are the new Dark Eldar models, which were apparently so damn good it kept me around longer than I really wanted to be.

-Loki- wrote:
Honestly, they have it right. See above. But then, I don't find any value at all in replaying a single player game I just finished.

If only there was such a thing as multiplayer. But there's not, so every game I ever purchase is one player only...sad times.

EDIT: And if you seriously think that no single player game is worth playing for more than 7 hours then you need to look for better games, there's more than just movie tie-ins out there.

And as far as replacement goes, just wait until GW brings back that old rule about having to play with the latest models in order to play in their stores. And wait until everyone online tells you to shut up and deal with it because we owe GW sooo much.

Sidstyler wrote:If only there was such a thing as multiplayer. But there's not, so every game I ever purchase is one player only...sad times.

Which I mentioned. Good multiplayer games are an exception, not the rule, with video games. In fact, the good multiplayer games with healthy communities can be counted on two hands. There aren't many.

Sid, i took the time to compare to prices. see my edit before your pots.

Loki's example is flawed.

He used the multiplayer game's pricing , but leaves out multiplayer's game time ( he used the single player's 7-8 hour example ) which then is wrong since those games are again CHEAPER than a tactical squad.

LunaHound wrote:

Really? I mean, a Tactical squad is half the price of a video game over here. Horde army units tend to cost about the same though.

Im glad you brought this point up because , Tac Squad in AUD is $62 , and why im glad? see below.

And, I also did mention multiplayer only titles being the exception. The very rare exception.

Which is very interesting since mostl single player focused games are infact CHEAPER than Tac squad ,
with the exception of Mulitplayer intended games which to be accurate with your "half the price of a video game"
Which you mention to be "rare exceptions" which again, are the ones with incredibly long hours of game play.



You cant simply substitute in the price of those rare exceptional games , and leave out the game hour's worth by then suddenly using a cheap single player game for comparison.
By doing that, it seems like you are conveniently subbing in and leaving out vital points just to attempt to favor GW.


:3 see what i did thar?

Recommended retail price for video games for PS3 and 360 in Australia sits at $110au. Wii games for $100au. PC games at $90au. I realize now the recent price hike made Tactical squads $62au, but they're far from cheaper at RRP.

About multiplayer games - you keep overlooking the fact that Wargames are multiplayer games as well. All of the value perks you give multiplayer games can be applied to wargames, even GW games, with the one beneficial exception that wargames get - your whole collection gets those value perks you list, unlike just the rare, good multiplayer games.

I wasn't overlooking the value perks of multiplayer games because I assumed you understood that wargamers were multiplayer as well.

Recommended retail price for video games for PS3 and 360 in Australia sits at $110au. Wii games for $100au. PC games at $90au. I realize now the recent price hike made Tactical squads $62au, but they're far from cheaper at RRP.

Loki , i looked through your EB AUS price list.
Unless you are telling me they priced it wrong? Then im right.

About multiplayer games - you keep overlooking the fact that Wargames are multiplayer games as well. All of the value perks you give multiplayer games can be applied to wargames, even GW games, with the one beneficial exception that wargames get - your whole collection gets those value perks you list, unlike just the rare, good multiplayer games.

I think you are misunderstanding something. Nowhere did i ever mention warhammer isnt a multiplayer game ( whens the last someone played with themselves? lol )
My POINT IS, to a videogame , thats where the price difference and extra values came from.

You conveniently quotes a video game's price ( which is higher for multiplayer purpose games )
and conveniently left out the game time multiplayer have ( which is significantly GREATER than a normal single player game )

Well if we're going to keep this up then I'm going to say the single player for wargames sucks. At least with PC games I get to do something, with models I get to sit hunched over in a chair for hours at a time with a knife or brush cleaning/painting them, ruining my back and my eyesight, just so I don't get bitched at when I try to do the multiplayer.

Which is pointless because there's always something to get bitched at for. "You're playing _____, they're so broken!", "You're taking _____?! Cheese!" "You can't do that, that's not in the spirit of the rules, I don't care what the rulebook says!"

Anyway, I haven't had a chance to leave the house yet today, and I'm not sure if I'm going to after all since it's getting late so I probably won't be picking up that model after all.

This whole wargames versus videogames diversion is really boring. Somebody post comparisons of primered metal and finecast of the same mini, and get this thread back on track.

As promised...

Commissar Calgar takes a look at the 'Finecost' Ork Shokk Attack Gun


Listen up men!

Central command and the Departmento Munitorium has seen fit to issue us all with our new 'Finecost' range of tactical planning miniatures. A whole range of these - Imperial paragons of virtue, heretics and aliens alike - all released in a rush of new pieces all on a single day with odd sales restrictions and enhanced levels of secrecy that puts even those Khorne-worshipping Grey Knights to shame!

But now that we have quite a few of them I thought it best to take a look at the one that was granted to a fellow Commissar of mine - a piece representing a vile Ork, this time one of their hideous 'Mechanics' with the vile Warp-magik cannon they call a 'Shokk Attack Gun'.

Upon receiving the piece both my comrade and myself were somewhat shocked to see that it was contained within a windowless package. We had heard stories and seen evidence that the forces of Chaos had been warping and air-bubble-ing and miscasting various other pieces within this range and wanted to see it before we bought it. None the less, my valiant friend said it was time to "put his Bolt pistol where his mouth is" and see if the new piece was as bad (or as good) as previously claimed. I readied my own Bolt Pistol in case I needed to enact summary execution upon him.

With the package opened we were greeted with three separate 'frames' made of this bizarre plastic-resin hybrid. Hybrids are naturally an enemy of the Emperor, so already our Bolt-Pistol fingers were twitching over the inherent Heresy, but a quick recital of the Emperor's Words of De-Spruing girded us against the machinations of the Enemy and we continued on.

What we found immediately was that the parts of this kit came away from the frame quite effortlessly. My fellow Commissar had spent the previous night removing full plastic parts from multiple Ork kits, and the strain was weighing upon his wrist. I offered to cut his hand off and replace it with a bionic at my next convenience, but he declined the offer. I'm unsure as to why. Does he doubt the purity of the machine?

With the parts removed from the frames, we looked at how flexible this ‘plastic-resin’ hybrid was by examining the sprues. The answer is that it was quite flexible – too flexible – as if Tzeentch himself were contorting and controlling every molecule within it. This extended to the pieces of the kit itself, and there was a certain level of ‘cheapness’ to the whole affair that lowered our spirits. Fear not, men, our faith in the Emperor did not waver – and we carried on.

Using a sanctified blade to clean the various parts was an easy enough task, and we were careful not to use too much pressure lest its clean surface be marred by imperfections. As far as general imperfections go the kits detail was crisp and clean, but we both acknowledged that the detail levels were not unexpected and comparisons to unadorned metal pieces would be unfair as metal pieces often reflect the light at odd angles making true inspection without ‘primer’ impossible. Our final verdict was that this pieces well detailed, but no more or less detailed than its previous metal counterpart.

The sacred unguents of adhesion were applied soon thereafter, and as the originator of this thread did comment, these pieces ‘loved’ the adhesive agent. Pieces went together very quickly – too quickly – as if Nurgle himself were causing the unguents to break down and lose their watery purity and become dried and hard. We asked our local Tech-Priest for some advise and he just shrugged his shoulders (I think they were shoulders…) and told us to move on. Cleary under the influence of some malevolent force, I executed him on the spot.

With the piece fully constructed we took note of the lightness of the piece – it weighs hardly anything. It is very light – too light – as if Slaanesh itself has removed the sense of gravity from our minds to create something that appears almost lighter than air. We consulted our local Preacher, and he led us in a seventeen-hour prayer ritual to cleanse the piece and ourselves of any taint. Satisfied that any taint had been removed, yet fearful that said taint may have passed onto the Preacher, I executed him on the spot.

With the piece complete we looked at it compared to other pieces. The detail was fine, as I mentioned, the weight was still somewhat disturbing, and there were hardly any defects beyond air-bubbles in various places (enough to be annoying, but not enough to warrant a return to the Munitorium Office at which it was purchased or to summary execute the staff that sold it to my friend). Our general feeling – and an Inquisitress in service to my comrade shared this feeling – is that these new pieces of a feeling of lower quality. ‘Tacky’ was the word used. Combined with central commands insistence that these tactical planning pieces are akin to the return of the Emperor I do have to question the loyalty (and sanity) of the scribes that constructed those release documents.

These pieces are in no way superior to what came before, the material being used is cheap and nasty, I doubt it will stand up to the rigours of temperature variation, and even if the pieces themselves do not distort what happens to the bonds between the pieces when it gets too hot or too cold?

The benefits of course were the weight. The old Shokk Attack Gun is a notoriously heavy piece, and the single join between the main body and the gun puts a lot of strain on itself simply due to the weight. No such problems exist here, meaning that aside from miscast and other cleaning issues, these new ‘Finecost’ pieces are tremendously easy to put together.

But, men, we were not done in our tests. One of the fallacious ‘What’s New Today’ missives mentioned how they had conducted a routine manual input stress test upon one of their new pieces – that is to say they had dropped it to see if it broke. We decided to do the same test.

First I took it upon myself to drop the Shokk Attack Gun from a height of about three feet onto carpet. It bounced with a slightly clicking noise, but did not come apart. My comrade then took the piece and dropped it onto hard tiles from a height of about five feet. It landed and clattered upon the ground and the total damage was that the piece was removed from the base, but the rest of the miniature stayed solid without breaking.

It means that these pieces, once stuck in place with simple adhesive unguents (not a single piece of Holy Green Stuff was used), will stay quite strong – too strong – as if Khorne himself was supporting the small plastic-resin hybrid and confounding our efforts to defeat him at every turn. As we had executed all that we could seek guidance from, and because neither of us really wanted to execute each other, we decided to move on.

Our final verdict:

This product is naught but an over-sold and over-hyped effort by Departmento Munitorium to push new models for a higher price point whilst they reap the substantial benefits of the cost cutting. The ‘resin-plastic’ hybrid substance feels cheap and tacky, has no weight or presence to it, and purchasing any more of these products would make me unclean in the eyes of the Emperor.

The benefits of this line though are obvious. The detail is not lost from the conversion from metal to this new substance, and the weight and its love of ‘super-glue’ make them very easy to assemble. I cannot stress that last part enough. The two of us spent the remainder of the day assembling full metal playing pieces and they took time, patience and a lot of Holy Green Stuff to complete. Had they been made of ‘Finecost’, they would have been completed within no time at all (at the expense of our souls, of course).

On a more neutral note, there were no serious defects within the kit we had. Some bubbling around the joints, but otherwise everything was well cast (even the banner pole was perfectly straight). None of that takes away from the serious issues we’ve seen in other pieces, but it does make us question if these defects are a normal facet of this new hybrid substance and production process or if it is simply a by-product of the Departmento Munitorium’s rush to release these so that they can make as many credits in the short term (as they always do) rather than focusing on the long-term growth and prosperity of the Imperium.

Final rating out of 10, if I have to give it a rating, is a solid 6: Above average. It is a perfectly serviceable playing piece marred by the cheapness of its material, the needlessly high cost point, and the fact that this new hybrid substance does not herald the return of the Emperor as the Departmento Munitorium would have us believe. It gets a point above average for the weight and strength – it will go together easily and is quite strong once together, though I doubt that strength will hold once environmental factors come into play.

And that is all I have to say on the matter.

Heresy abounds, and I have to reload my Bolt Pistol!
- Commissar Mathias Calgar

KingCracker wrote:

Ignorant on some things sure, but not on this. You are the one that not only needs a history lesson, but also a lesson in manners. Just because people made cardboard titans didnt mean it was a sure thing for GW to make massive plastic models and price them at over $100 each. That was a pretty big gameble for them at the time, they didnt know how well the APOC set was going to sell, if its numbers were too soft they would had to of pulled the plug and take the loss. You cant look at how well APOC sells NOW and say nope, your a stupid head for saying it was a gamble then. So enjoy that high horse your sitting on and keep pretending your the king of right

While you whallow if your complaining and ignorance, let me give you a word: Armorcast. Back in the 90's they made all sorts of large vehicals from eldar titans to warhounds to reavers(and in a very very very limited run, imperator), along with great gargant, stompa, several Khorne vehicals and ork ones.

It was NOT a pretty big gamble at the time. Folks HAD large vehcials and models and were tapping into a market already there- they canceled the armorcast contract and then came forgeworld. perhaps you should look up history before making claims and being ignorant, instead of being insulting.

Funny that according to the reviews here it seems that the various SM armies are the ones with most defects. Rushed job when making the new molds or when casting them? Perhaps the other examples checked being bigger figures (UO, Carnosaurs) took better to the new material?

To me the quality it´s the most important point, I´m past the point where I got GW figures for gaming I went for substitutes long ago . Now I buy them because I fancy the sculpts like the new DE but if I have to deal with miscasted figures in a regular basis (especially with the high official prices in Japan) I´ll stop buying even those few.

M.

pixelpusher wrote:Even back when I bought RTB01 you were advised to clean your minis before painting them. As well as filling any gaps or defects with Milliput (no green stuff back then) or similar. It's weird you haven't heard of that until now.

I still have a handfully of RTBO1 on sprue. I remember those days, dont remember alot of flaws that needed fixing.....but then again its 20 years ago....

I got a question what about
Ragnar Blackmane
Njal Stormcaller (Classic)
Wolf Priest Ulrik
Bjorn the Fell-Handed
Mephiston, Lord of Death(and Hugs)
Brother-Captain Tycho
Greater Daemon of Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Slannesh
Ahriman of the Thousand Sons
Fabius Bile
Kharn the Betrayer(and pretty fun guy all round)
and all of the Witch Hunters

Are not finecast are they going to get new minis? Or are they the second wave? Most of these listed are old(like 2nd) Minis I'm hoping they will get some love.
And give GW some time they will get this right if not well that will suck. But if you hate Finecast and the other things everyone crying about just quit no one is stopping from playing warmachine. The new way GW is going my not be the best way, but that's the way they are going. You as a gamer should take a look in a mirror and say how can I fix this and do proactive things like support the
http://www.thecodexproject.com/ and your gaming clubs. And stop acting like kids. We mite play with toy army guys but we are not kids.

Just returned from my Failcost adventure... bought Eldar Shadowseer and Azhag. Opened both in store.

Shadowseer had a hole in the head (miscast), affecting about a quarter of it, which I filled in with glue. Not happy I had to do it, but I decided to suck it up on this one. Otherwise, model is very nice. I've primed it black and it seems the details are crisper than I expect from metals, however, I do not have a metal Shadoseer to compare. The other Shadowseer in the store had the same miscast.

Azhag. Oh Azhag. First thing, I don't have the metal version. On opening, I was pleasantly surprised that I could make out a thumbprint from the sculptor on the back of the big orc face shield... don't know if it is visible on the metal. Now the bad. The box had 2 right wings but no left wing. Both right wings were tissue thin in several areas with many holes. So the other two boxes in the store were opened, all had the same flaws (all told, 3 boxes, 6 right wings all quite thin and porous). I returned Azhag because I was not happy with the quality of the wings, and did not want to wait with half a model for my correct wing to show up.

So, my overall impression: disappointed. These are not worth the cost. If they were half the price, I would be totally happy. But at this price, I expect a product without flaws.

Edits: don't know my left from my right...

-Loki- wrote: The difference is every unit in your army gets that value, unlike video games only getting that out of multiplayer titles. Plus the hobby side, building and painting them, and you easily get more value out of a unit of warhammer dudes than a video game.

And, I also did mention multiplayer only titles being the exception. The very rare exception. The most recent Battlefield and Call of Duty titles, and the Valve multiplayer only titles, keep a healthly online community. Considering how many games are released per month, that's not a good percentage of games. Most are 7-8 hour single player games with no, or completely forgettable, multiplayer. The occasional open world game or RPG lasts about twice a normal game. And still, they're not as common anymore as the same old 7-8 hour shooterfest.

Uhm no. Not in the least. I think I'm up to 40ish hours on Dragon age I w/ exp[ansion pack. I would expect easily to hit 60-100 depending. Depends on the player and game. I dont play online nor multiplayer ever.