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As I recall it must be Robute Guilliman, he is better than the perfect human the Emperor for unknown reasons. And his Space Marines are even better, as they are all Mary Sues. Have fun.

Beaviz81 wrote:As I recall it must be Robute Guilliman, he is better than the perfect human the Emperor for unknown reasons. And his Space Marines are even better, as they are all Mary Sues. Have fun.

Care to elaborate a little? I'm not sure I follow you.

Ignatius wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:As I recall it must be Robute Guilliman, he is better than the perfect human the Emperor for unknown reasons. And his Space Marines are even better, as they are all Mary Sues. Have fun.

Care to elaborate a little? I'm not sure I follow you.

Oh comeon, read the Codex Space Marines. There the monstrosity is, in the flesh. Every Ultramarine is better than what should have been the ultimate man. Blah, blah, blah, when Empy gazed upon Robute he saw the ultimate Primarch. Heck he even saw a man far better than himself. It mystifies me that he just didn't declare on the spot "I suck, and Robute rock, I retire on the spot."

He WAS the ultimate Primarch. Were that all of the Primarchs were just like him, the galaxy would be a utopia for humanity and we'd have no game to play.

Don't worry about him. He's just another Matt Ward hater trying to bait you with an obvious troll attempt.

Because, the Space Marine codex, which like all other codex books is written with a bias towards its own faction. In this case, the Ultramarines, since the original Codex: Space Marines was called Codex: Ultramarines. Its name was changed to the more generic Codex: Space Marines because that was less confusing to newbie players looking for the basic Space Marine codex. It was purely a marketing decision. However, Codex: Space Marines has always been, and probably always will be, Codex: Ultramarines.

However, at no point does Codex: Space Marines 5E say, or suggest, anything like what he said. He's just a troll. Don't feed him, and eventually he'll go back under his bridge.

Omegus wrote:He WAS the ultimate Primarch. Were that all of the Primarchs were just like him, the galaxy would be a utopia for humanity and we'd have no game to play.

Right, and he is better than the Emperor himself. Excuse me, but that's a load of crap, Empy should be the ultimate human, not the ulcer-inducing Robute Guilliman.

As for Veteran Sergeant he is ignored for being deranged and worse boring.

Ignored by a troll? Whatever will I do?

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Ignored by a troll? Whatever will I do?

Whine about it obviously.

Oh, and he's not a troll. Having a commonly held opinion does not make you a troll.

LoneLictor wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Ignored by a troll? Whatever will I do?

Whine about it obviously.

Oh, and he's not a troll. Having a commonly held opinion does not make you a troll.

Whine about it? You seem to be quite confused son.

And it's a troll response, regardless of whether or not it's a "commonly held" opinion. A thousand high school dropouts could argue with a Nobel prize winner for physics and all thousand of them would still be wrong, even if they can yell louder.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Ignored by a troll? Whatever will I do?

Whine about it obviously.

Oh, and he's not a troll. Having a commonly held opinion does not make you a troll.

Whine about it? You seem to be quite confused son.

And it's a troll response, regardless of whether or not it's a "commonly held" opinion. A thousand high school dropouts could argue with a Nobel prize winner for physics and all thousand of them would still be wrong, even if they can yell louder.

So every one of those high school dropouts are trolls? No, they just held a common opinion. And, being a nobel prize winner does not automatically mean you are correct, by the way. If they're arguing about how best to be a high school dropout, they dropouts would probably know better.

Ahh semantics. The last refuge of those with no real argument.

Our Norwegian troll friend has already dragged this off topic with his bait post. Perhaps not contributing to the problem anymore?

Someone's rather sure of themselves, considering they respond to discussions with cries of troll. But whatever, obviously anyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

As for Emperor, well surely it's common sense. Emperor > Primarch > man. I hardly think the Emperor was about to step back and declare Roboute to be the new Emperor.

liquid and LL just call it off, you are smashing your heads at a brickwall. Any discussion with him will just have your membership here revoked, and I don't wanna see that as I personally treasure you as members of this fora. Just let him wallow.

liquidjoshi wrote:Someone's rather sure of themselves, considering they respond to discussions with cries of troll. But whatever, obviously anyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

As for Emperor, well surely it's common sense. Emperor > Primarch > man. I hardly think the Emperor was about to step back and declare Roboute to be the new Emperor.

Exactly. And there has never been any suggestion to the contrary.

Hence why his post is trolling. This concept is pretty simple, is it not? You seem to be halfway there already.

Beaviz81 wrote:liquid and LL just call it off, you are smashing your heads at a brickwall. Any discussion with him will just have your membership here revoked, and I don't wanna see that as I personally treasure you as members of this fora. Just let him wallow.

Yeah, thanks. It's generally best to stop talking to someone when they call themselves a noble prize winner and they call you a high school drop out when neither of which are either remotely true.

Now, as for my opinion of the most mockworthy Primarch.

From an Out-of-Universe Perspective:
Reboute Gulliman

Dan Abnett writes him okay, but the Codex Space Marines ruined any chance of this character being taken seriously. But talking 'bout this would be beating a dead horse. The horrid nature of Matt Ward's writing is already pretty well known and there's no need to rehash it. For being a textbook example of Mary Sue, Gulliman is pretty much irredeemable as a character unless the writers embark on some seriously retcons.

From an In-Universe Perspective:
Leman Russ

Russ really fudged up when he obeyed the commands of the Warmaster over the Emperor. Magnus was originally planning to be taken alive but nope, Russ decided it would be more fun to kill him and as a result inadvertently created another Traitor Legion. Magnus could've been a great ally to the Emperor, hell, with assistance from the Thousand Sons the Emperor might've never been forced to board Horus' ship and get himself killeded. Furthermore, Russ was a huge hypocrite. He hated the Thousand Sons for having mutations and using psykers. His own Space Wolves also suffered from severe mutations and used psykers. But Russ was either a huge idiot or just purposefully blinding himself to this.

+1.
Still sticking to my opinions of Russ. I think Lion was pretty useless, but at least he didn't feth up like Russ. Actually, that's my reasoning behind all the primarchs: they may have fethed up, but no one did it quite like the blood hunting, arrogant, hypocritical, team-killing fool that was Leman Russ.

Good points LL. I will say that Lorgar seems stupid, Empy told you to stop worshiping him, not to worship his greatest foe. Then he ordered a grinning Guilliman to tear down his greatest city (which looks like Empy really sucks at one on one convos).

Leman Russ irrational hatred for Magnus seems to boil down to an irrational hatred for one-eyed people. Plus the Primarch of the Iron Warriors seems like a spineless jerk. He could have said "Excuse me, but my men doesn't like being stationed alone controlling billions of disgruntled citizens."

Sanguinius was the Mary Sue. Utterly without flaws. Loved by everyone, a masterful general, a nearly peerless warrior, male-model beautiful. He just had the good graces to die against Horus. You have no idea what the term Mary Sue even means, lol. You've just heard idiots on the Intardwebs repeat it over and over, and now parrot the same false idea. Guilliman was hardly flawless. He was just really good at being a general. Somebody had to be the second best after Horus. Somebody had to put the Imperium back together after the Heresy. Why cry about it being Guilliman?

If you subscribe to the same false interpretation of the 5th Edition Codex you read about on 1d4chan, that's fine. But let's not play pretend that it's the truth. Matt Ward isn't the greatest writer, but what did you expect out of Codex: Ultramarines? Every other Codex book talks about how that faction is pretty awesome. Why would this one be any different? Besides, half the stuff people cry about isn't even correct. People cry about the "spiritual liege" thing, but forget (ignore?) that it only referred to Ultramarines successors, not all Space Marines. And of course the chapters which descend from the UM would look at Guilliman as their Primarch. After all, they have none of their own, and they are genetically linked to the guy. And of course they would look at the Ultramarines as the model to emulate. Heck, for the Second Founding chapters (of which there seem to be at least 200 of with the current fluff), their original Marines were Ultramarines.

Yeah, Guilliman wrote the Codex. Yeah, he was pretty good at being a general and was considered one of the best of the Primarchs. Horus was still chosen over him as the Warmaster. Magnus was going to be entrusted with the Golden Throne. Dorn was chosen to protect Terra. it isn't like Guilliman has gotten some kind of preferential treatment in the fluff. And the funny part is, Ward didn't even write half the stuff you cry about. Most of Guilliman's back story was conceived by Rick Priestley. You might know him as the guy whose name is on the 1st and 2nd Edition rulebooks. He just might have been one of the guys who created 40K.

Don't think you're coming up with anything groundbreaking or intelligent, please. It's the same garbage that's been parroted for a decade or more. I've been laughing at the haters of Guilliman and the Ultramarines for long since before the 5th Edition codex. Before the 5th Ed codex, people cried about the Ultramarines being too "boring" and crying that Games Workshop chose them out of the Big Four (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Ultramarines) as the "flagship" chapter for the brand. THe Nobel Prize winner to high school dropout comment wasn't supposed to be comparative. I'm just saying that if 1000 idiots argue with one genius about a topic the idiots clearly don't understand, it doesn't matter how many of them are talking. They are still wrong.

Okay, that's enough of that. Folks, the ONLY appropriate response if you think someone is posting inappropriately is to hit the little yellow "Alert Moderator" icon. Tossing around labels like "troll" is only going to get YOU in trouble.