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Maniac_nmt wrote:The Emporer himself.

The emperor was the worst parent you could imagine, he lost all of his sons, allowed two of them to 'disappear'
He allowed Angron and Russ to happen, left the frontline and gave the job to someone who didn't know/want to do it, gave the go-ahead for Russ to kill Magnus.
He effectively allowed the Horus Heresy to happen.

He did allow the Heresy to happen.

Magnus

Dorn, pompous, vain, self righteous. Caused two primarchs (Curze and Pertiburo) to side with Horus. Threw a tantrum after being warned of Horus's treachery and nearly killed the messengers. Ordered Ferrus, Corrax, and Vulkan into a trap. The list goes on.

I'm gonna have to disagree with the guy who voted Curze earlier. He didn't go nuts because of a vision of his death, he went nuts because he was, well, nuts. I just wanna set the record straight on my fave primarch.

Seriously, other than going a little overboard with the "space batman" imagery, the Night Lords and Konrad Curze are probably the coolest legion/primarch combo in the whole story. Curze was always tormented by visions of dark futures, but he at least started off with good intentions. Keeping peace through fear worked on Nostramo, and as the ranks of the Night Lords swelled with criminals from Nostramo, they picked up his tactics with pleasure. Empy recognizes their usefulness and lets them punish already conquered planets that try to break away from the Imperium. You act up, we skin your whole populace. Peace through Fear.

Curze cracks for a few reasons: 1) His visions of the Heresy are getting worse, and no one will believe him, his brothers almost universally dislike him. 2) The Emperor formally rebukes him for his legion's behavior, behavior the Emperor previously turned a blind eye to due to their usefulness. 3) His own planet has descended into crime and corruption in his absence, making his efforts seem futile.

He draws a few conclusions from this: the Emperor is a hypocritical bastard, his brothers are fools, his own legion is full of unstable murderers, and bettering humanity is a hopeless endeavor. So he blows up Nostramo and goes on a killing spree, ended only when the Emperor sent an assassin to kill him. Curze let the assassin kill him, knowing it was coming, because it demonstrated the Emperor's hypocrisy. He disapproved of Curze's cruelty, then killed his own son to punish him. It's a twisted take on things, but at least you can kinda see the demented logic.


Anyway, you want to talk mock-worthy primarchs, I vote either Lorgar or Perturabo. Both of them were whiny babies unbefitting of their demi-god status. Lorgar's failings have already been discussed, but Perturabo was also a little b*tch for getting upset over the use of his legion as a garrison force. I imagine they weren't literally manning checkpoints on backwater planets, but instead were scattered throughout the Imperium in fortresses, ready to react to alien threats or insurrection on nearby worlds (you know, kinda like every space marine chapter does now). It might not be as glamorous as some of his brothers' exploits, but he was a SOLDIER first and foremost. Do your duty already instead of whining.

It just seems like the rest of the traitors had at least halfway decent reasons for turning, from warp/daemonic influence (Horus, Fulgrim) to being legitimately pissed at the Emperor AND being crazy to boot (Angron, Curze) to having made a deal with the devil and then getting your planet ransacked by the Emperor's attack dog (Magnus) to just plain hating life and humanity in general because you're an evil bastard (Mortarion). Lorgar and Perturabo just couldn't suck it up and do what they were supposed to do, and got bitter, jealous, and generally emo instead.

So go cry, emo kids - my vote is for Lorgar or Perturabo.

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:So go cry, emo kids - my vote is for Lorgar or Perturabo.

*goes to cry*

Russ, simply because the SW codex can find no other noun than "Wolf". Wolf lord on Thunderwolf with Wolf talisman, saga of the Wolfborn, with legion of attack wolves and wolf wolfers, leading a pack of wolf wolf wolves, wolf wolves and wolves' wolf? Did I mention WOLVES!?!?!?!?

Dorn was fairly useless too. "Let's defend Terra! Oh noes we failed!!!! : O". Yeah.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Angry the Angryiest Angryus Anger Anger bloodrage.

Ignatius wrote:But I would say that Lorgar is the most mockable to an extent based on his childish way of handling his dad yelling at him. But then again, I don't like him as a character anyway so I'm a little biased.

Have you read The First Heretic? To be honest, if my dad let me get on with something for ages, then destroyed something that I had worked hard on, humiliated me, told me that I shouldn't have been doing what he was letting me do, and called me a failure, I'd be a little put out too. Even if he is a little useless at what he was supposed to do, that doesn't neccesarily mean he's mockable. He's the most likable and relateable-to Primarch, at least at first; he doesn't want to follow the path in life that he has been commanded to, but neither would I if my dad told me "Son you're going to be a sportsman, no arguing". The need to find something to believe in was literally in his genetic code.

EDIT: Especially if my dad did all of that whilst my brother, who I hated and who he had got to destroy the thing that I had worked hard on, stood smirking behind him.

Yes, I did read The First Heretic. That's the reason why I don't like him and think him to be mock worthy. If I hadn't read it, then I really wouldn't have much of a right to not like him.

And you're right, you should be a little put out too if your father did what the Emperor did. But not to the extent that you run off for a couple years venting your anger on planets you come across and moping around for a while. It's rediculous. He doesn't follow the path in life he was created to do- not commanded. He threw a temper tantrum plain and simple.

After he got told off he just kept whining about the fact that "I don't wanna be a general!".

And The Emperor should be more proud of a son that is much better at what he was made to do. Guilliman was probably right after Horus in terms of the Emperor's favor. Because he was damn good at what he did.

Kain wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:Even Lorgar admitted he wasn't the best Primarch. He didn't like war, he was quite whiny and he was extremely insecure about the universe. Lorgar's desperate need to find some overall meaning, something truly epic to devote his life to, led to the downfall of the Imperium.

This. In other words, freaking emos run everything. No seriously, pretty much everything bad about the Imperium's present state is his fault.

I dunno, Lorgar might've improved things slightly. Before he came around the Imperium was a fascist dictatorship. Now its a fascist theocratic oligarchy, which may be slightly better (8 people making decisions for everyone is better than 1 person making decisions for everyone).

All of them?
Or;
"The feral worlder led the Sisters into the temple. Sister Superior Helena was relieved to see it was in relatively good condition- however backwards this planet might be, at least it had kept up its worship. Admirable, really, in a world that had not been contacted by the Imperium since the Salamanders had made a stop shortly after the Horus Heresy. Whatever her thoughts on the Astartes, they'd at least managed to impress these savages with the creed.

"Here," the feral worlder said, pointing at a series of crude paintings inside the temple. Or perhaps crude was the wrong word- primitive, yes, but obvious effort had been put into them. They would not compare with the stained glass or sacred paintings of an Imperial convent, but their bright colors and symbols were certainly eye-catching.

"Tells all the story. Known it since I was a babe." The feral worlder seemed proud, or else simply eager for the approval of the strange women with fire-spitting wands.

"Tell us, then," prompted Sister Helena. The feral worlder nodded, grinning, and pointed to the largest picture. It showed a man dressed in animal hides made of gold, sitting upon a chair that towered over a tiny village painted in the background.

"Emp-Rar," she explained.

"Emp-Rar?"

"King Emp-Rar, of the village Terra. Powerful magician, made himself god."

"Magician?" explained Sister Isabella, her face contorted with fury. "That's heres-"

Sister Helena cut her off with a look. She might normally have agreed with Isabella's assessment, but the feral worlder hadn't seemed to mean anything chaos-related by the word. Besides, until their rescue ship arrived, they were stuck on this barbaric little rock and would have to save their ammunition for true emergencies.

"Go on."

The feral worlder pointed to another picture.

"Betrayed by his son, the Horse."

The Sisters looked at the picture, which indeed showed a very evil looking horse. Trying not to laugh, they silently noted that it did have lots of spiky bits painted on it.

"Other sons fight the Horse, even though-" her voice dropped to a frightened hush- "the Gill Man came to take away their manhood with the Coat of Stars!"

Any confusion on the part of the Sisters was answered by the painting of the Gill Man, a large, scaly monster dressed in a starry coat with scissors on the end. Or rather, it was answered by the fact that the scales on his chest were blue and displayed the Ultramarines symbol.

"Yes," whispered Sister Rosalind, "this story was definitely told by the Salamanders."

The feral worlder moved on to the next series of paintings, each with a symbol that suggested a different Primarch.

"The Great Green One," she said reverently. "Knew the secrets of Fire and Steel. Refused to let the Gill-Man take his manhood."

Sister Rosalind suppressed a giggle, deciding that the next time she saw the Salamanders she would call them Great Green Ones. They'd kill her for it, but it would be worth it.

"The Angel," came the feral worlder's voice, pointing at the next painting. "Emp-Rar's beautiful daughter." Indeed, the golden-haired woman in the painting was remarkably beautiful, her body barely covered by a sheer piece of cloth, her blue eyes large and sad as she wept tears of blood.

"Was there a female Primarch?" Sister Ophelia hissed excitedly. "I never learned about her!"

"Don't ask," replied Sister Helena. With any luck, the Blood Angels would never end up visiting this planet.

"One son was a wall."

"You mean, built a wall?"

"Was a wall. Emp-Rar's concubines gave birth to a great wall to protect him. Wall called Dorn."

"I'm really pretty sure this is heresy..." groaned Sister Isabella.

The feral worlder looked at them suspiciously. "Priestesses of Emp-Rar should know the story. Why so many questions?"

Sister Helena smiled, doing her best to convey smug superiority. "We merely wish to see how well you know your history. Memorized speeches are all well and good, but it doesn't mean much if you can't explain in detail."

The feral worlder seemed a bit embarrassed at that. Her head bowed, she pointed to three smaller paintings.

"Other sons, Great Green Ones say are not important, but we put them up here anyway. Important to know history. The Raven-" she pointed to a painting of a large black bird, his wings spread, giving what looked like a murderous glare to the other paintings- '"The Man with the White Scar-" this painting showed what appeared to be a man riding a horse made of steel, a primitive attempt at understanding the concept of an attack bike- "and Bad Angel. Great Green Ones not talk about Bad Angel, though. They say he brings bad luck to those who knew too much."

"They would," commented Sister Mariana. "And I think the Great Green Ones seem to have been a little bitter over Guilliman's backers. Are there any they did say were important?"

The feral worlder beamed at her.

"Wolf-Man. Along with Great Green One, refused to lose his manhood to the Gill-Man's coat of stars." With that, she pointed to the final painting on the temple walls.

The painting showed a huge barbarian, naked from the waist up. Over one shoulder was slung a woman, who looked as if she wasn't quite sure whether or not to be upset by her impending ravishment. In the other hand, he wielded a giant tanker of mead, using it to crush his opponents while taking a healthy drink from it himself.

"Well," said Sister Helena after a moment's pause, "at least they got one right."

Hahaha brilliant. And actually oddly enough managed to protray the SOB right, bonus points.

That was pretty funny, Ribon.

Ribon Fox wrote:walltext

/thread

Nicely done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

liquidjoshi wrote:Russ, simply because the SW codex can find no other noun than "Wolf". Wolf lord on Thunderwolf with Wolf talisman, saga of the Wolfborn, with legion of attack wolves and wolf wolfers, leading a pack of wolf wolf wolves, wolf wolves and wolves' wolf? Did I mention WOLVES!?!?!?!?

It must be truly difficult...

10/10 Good show old bean.

Ribon Fox wrote:
"They would," commented Sister Mariana. "And I think the Great Green Ones seem to have been a little bitter over Guilliman's backers. Are there any they did say were important?"

The feral worlder beamed at her.

"Wolf-Man. Along with Great Green One, refused to lose his manhood to the Gill-Man's coat of stars." With that, she pointed to the final painting on the temple walls.

The painting showed a huge barbarian, naked from the waist up. Over one shoulder was slung a woman, who looked as if she wasn't quite sure whether or not to be upset by her impending ravishment. In the other hand, he wielded a giant tanker of mead, using it to crush his opponents while taking a healthy drink from it himself.

"Well," said Sister Helena after a moment's pause, "at least they got one right."

This is why I'm proud to play Space Wolves.

Thank you Ribon Fox, I needed that.

Omegus wrote:And he makes all his recruits call themselves Alpharius, too! And after having the tempate for making primarchs for 10,000 years, he has done precisely nothing with that technology.

Actually he succeeded in creating an entire legion of primarchs but they were all killed by Draigo.

Buttons wrote:He builds a mini empire and has the largest legion with some of the lightest casualties (didn't get most of his legion wiped out at Istvaan, didn't fight at Terra) during the Horus Heresy

Actually Know No Fear seems to imply that they lost nearly 90% of the legion at Calth.

DarkStarSabre wrote:How hard would it have been to just take them to one side and say 'Seriously guys, don't do that. I know what happens and it's bad.'

He couldn't. The mere knowledge of the existence of Chaos feeds it. The Emperor was trying to destroy Chaos by stopping people from believing in it. You know that saying about repeating a lie enough times and it becomes it true? Well that's what the Emperor was trying to do with his Imperial Truth (which, ironically enough, was a LIE from the beginning).

Of course, that's nonsense. Chaos feeds our dark impulses and emotions, it's what created them in the first place. Active knowledge is what usually allows it to cross over into the materium.

Ribon Fox that was awesome.

Ferrus Manus wins for dumbest name.

Oh GW, you sneaky, clever lads. Bet there was lots of back-patting and high-fiving when they named that Legion...

DoW

Manus/ Corax for dumbest name.

Dorn because... well for a lot of the stuff already mentioned and getting beat in the very field he was supposed to be great at by Perturbo

Lorgar for being a whining brat who had to have things go his way

Fulgrim for fething pink marines, really?

Lion for "Repent for tomorrow you die." Tomorrow? How about today you lazy ass! And personally I find the robes ridiculous.

Guiliman, Girlyman, whatever, for frankly being pretty snobbish in his own right.

And frankly, all the Primarchs that promote individual heroics.

That Russ character is kind of stupid. Probably why they named a stupid looking tank after him.

Ribon Fox wrote:All of them?
Or;
"The feral worlder led the Sisters into the temple. Sister Superior Helena was relieved to see it was in relatively good condition- however backwards this planet might be, at least it had kept up its worship. Admirable, really, in a world that had not been contacted by the Imperium since the Salamanders had made a stop shortly after the Horus Heresy. Whatever her thoughts on the Astartes, they'd at least managed to impress these savages with the creed.

"Here," the feral worlder said, pointing at a series of crude paintings inside the temple. Or perhaps crude was the wrong word- primitive, yes, but obvious effort had been put into them. They would not compare with the stained glass or sacred paintings of an Imperial convent, but their bright colors and symbols were certainly eye-catching.

"Tells all the story. Known it since I was a babe." The feral worlder seemed proud, or else simply eager for the approval of the strange women with fire-spitting wands.

"Tell us, then," prompted Sister Helena. The feral worlder nodded, grinning, and pointed to the largest picture. It showed a man dressed in animal hides made of gold, sitting upon a chair that towered over a tiny village painted in the background.

"Emp-Rar," she explained.

"Emp-Rar?"

"King Emp-Rar, of the village Terra. Powerful magician, made himself god."

"Magician?" explained Sister Isabella, her face contorted with fury. "That's heres-"

Sister Helena cut her off with a look. She might normally have agreed with Isabella's assessment, but the feral worlder hadn't seemed to mean anything chaos-related by the word. Besides, until their rescue ship arrived, they were stuck on this barbaric little rock and would have to save their ammunition for true emergencies.

"Go on."

The feral worlder pointed to another picture.

"Betrayed by his son, the Horse."

The Sisters looked at the picture, which indeed showed a very evil looking horse. Trying not to laugh, they silently noted that it did have lots of spiky bits painted on it.

"Other sons fight the Horse, even though-" her voice dropped to a frightened hush- "the Gill Man came to take away their manhood with the Coat of Stars!"

Any confusion on the part of the Sisters was answered by the painting of the Gill Man, a large, scaly monster dressed in a starry coat with scissors on the end. Or rather, it was answered by the fact that the scales on his chest were blue and displayed the Ultramarines symbol.

"Yes," whispered Sister Rosalind, "this story was definitely told by the Salamanders."

The feral worlder moved on to the next series of paintings, each with a symbol that suggested a different Primarch.

"The Great Green One," she said reverently. "Knew the secrets of Fire and Steel. Refused to let the Gill-Man take his manhood."

Sister Rosalind suppressed a giggle, deciding that the next time she saw the Salamanders she would call them Great Green Ones. They'd kill her for it, but it would be worth it.

"The Angel," came the feral worlder's voice, pointing at the next painting. "Emp-Rar's beautiful daughter." Indeed, the golden-haired woman in the painting was remarkably beautiful, her body barely covered by a sheer piece of cloth, her blue eyes large and sad as she wept tears of blood.

"Was there a female Primarch?" Sister Ophelia hissed excitedly. "I never learned about her!"

"Don't ask," replied Sister Helena. With any luck, the Blood Angels would never end up visiting this planet.

"One son was a wall."

"You mean, built a wall?"

"Was a wall. Emp-Rar's concubines gave birth to a great wall to protect him. Wall called Dorn."

"I'm really pretty sure this is heresy..." groaned Sister Isabella.

The feral worlder looked at them suspiciously. "Priestesses of Emp-Rar should know the story. Why so many questions?"

Sister Helena smiled, doing her best to convey smug superiority. "We merely wish to see how well you know your history. Memorized speeches are all well and good, but it doesn't mean much if you can't explain in detail."

The feral worlder seemed a bit embarrassed at that. Her head bowed, she pointed to three smaller paintings.

"Other sons, Great Green Ones say are not important, but we put them up here anyway. Important to know history. The Raven-" she pointed to a painting of a large black bird, his wings spread, giving what looked like a murderous glare to the other paintings- '"The Man with the White Scar-" this painting showed what appeared to be a man riding a horse made of steel, a primitive attempt at understanding the concept of an attack bike- "and Bad Angel. Great Green Ones not talk about Bad Angel, though. They say he brings bad luck to those who knew too much."

"They would," commented Sister Mariana. "And I think the Great Green Ones seem to have been a little bitter over Guilliman's backers. Are there any they did say were important?"

The feral worlder beamed at her.

"Wolf-Man. Along with Great Green One, refused to lose his manhood to the Gill-Man's coat of stars." With that, she pointed to the final painting on the temple walls.

The painting showed a huge barbarian, naked from the waist up. Over one shoulder was slung a woman, who looked as if she wasn't quite sure whether or not to be upset by her impending ravishment. In the other hand, he wielded a giant tanker of mead, using it to crush his opponents while taking a healthy drink from it himself.

"Well," said Sister Helena after a moment's pause, "at least they got one right."

You have got to make more of this .

Harriticus wrote:Leman Russ comes off as fairly stupid and seems to have created a lot of messes.

To be honest he cleared up a lot of messes.

I mean he cleared up the lost Legions/Primarchs for whatever reasons the Emeror decided on at the time, but at a guess I would have to say that either they were the first sign of bad mutation or the first legions to genuinley question the Emperors rule over them.

I dont think Leman Russ fits being 'Mock-Worthy at all', in fact I dont think any of the Primarchs do. But if I had to say who was the most bone idle and didnt do a great deal during the heresy then I would have to say Vulcan of the Salamanders or Ferrus Mannus of the Iron Hands, due to them both pitching up at the first major battle and getting their arses kicked and then doing bugger all for the rest of the Heresy. Even Corax did something after the DSM.

Thoughts

Uh... Ferrus Manus was DEAD for the rest of the Heresy. That kind of precludes you from doing anything.

Anyway, as much as I dislike Leman Russ, I agree that he doesn't really fall in the mock-worthy territory. Contempt and loathing? Certainly. But not mockery. He is a product of his genes and his environment, like all the other Primarchs.

So so far the consensus seems to be as follows:

Stupidest name: Ferrus Manus or Corax/Corvus.
Biggest emo: Lorgar or Curze
Most useless in the grand scheme of things: The Lion or Vulkan

Clearing up the lost legions is pure speculation based on a single comment and their nickname. Though if he had already destroyed a legion, one would think he'd have been better prepared for the Thousand Sons.

I think we can also nominate Corax for biggest emo.

ZSO SAHALL wrote:
Dorn, pompous, vain, self righteous. Caused two primarchs (Curze and Pertiburo) to side with Horus. Threw a tantrum after being warned of Horus's treachery and nearly killed the messengers. Ordered Ferrus, Corrax, and Vulkan into a trap. The list goes on.

Agreed, that's how I feel about him, plus he just isn't as interesting as the rest.

Russ.

Turned to chaos and tried to kill, on more than one occasion, a brother primarch simply to satisfy his private fears and personal grievances.

Used his influence to punish and neuter one of the other legions that would pose a thread to Horus' ascendency.

Under orders from Horus, tried to destroy an entire Legion for warning the Emperor about Horus' pending treachery.

And finally fled to the warp to join his treacherous brothers, leaving his legion behind like a coward.

biccat wrote:Russ.

Turned to chaos and tried to kill, on more than one occasion, a brother primarch simply to satisfy his private fears and personal grievances.

Used his influence to punish and neuter one of the other legions that would pose a thread to Horus' ascendency.

Under orders from Horus, tried to destroy an entire Legion for warning the Emperor about Horus' pending treachery.

And finally fled to the warp to join his treacherous brothers, leaving his legion behind like a coward.

Nice, that's gonna get a lot of replies, methinks.

Also I wouldn't put Curze up for "biggest emo", or even second biggest. Corax is probably second biggest. Curze isn't really emo. Dude was legitimately insane.

And Lorgar is definitely biggest emo, feeling really bad for himself over, for lack of a better phrase, "white primarch problems". As in, "Whaa my daddy is mad because I've been sitting around writing books instead of conquering the galaxy." Look, you don't exactly have it rough. One of your brothers raised himself in a forest full of giant monsters. Another was enslaved and had implants put in his head and had to fight people to the death every day. And another one has creepy jet-black skin and red eyes, and grew up on a planet covered in lava. So get over yourself and go start conquering.

Lorgar is the kid who cuts himself. Curze is the kid who cuts other people.