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Close enough for many, me included. Opinions may vary of course

 MLaw wrote:
I see $32 for 2 bikes and 3 or 4 gangers (I think one can be built as a passenger or additional foot person).
If you price the foot people at $3 each that leaves the 2 bikes at $10 each. Granted, I don't think those are amazing prices but I think they are pretty average prices.

In contrast, at Chaosorc.com
A box of GW ork bikers is ~$33
A single GW scout biker is ~$13


Or, Curious Constructs lists IG bikers at £8.00 for a single or £22 for 3.

There's loads of other bikes out there but they tend to be either overpriced OR the sculpts aren't that great OR need work to fit with what you might want to do with them.

Dropping $32 for a gang of bikers doesn't really seem like a stretch to me. Do I wish it was cheaper? Sure but I don't think it's the highway robbery it's being painted as.

$3 per mini would make sense if the kits were $30 for ten minis...a price that would lose Warlord the goodwill of anyone familiar with WGF's prices. Not an attractive price at all.

If GW sells three bikes for $33 and WLG sells 2 bikes (plus $4 worth of pedestrians in a kit no one is buying for the pedestrians) for $32, then something is very wrong. GW should not be the budget-conscious alternative.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
I see $32 for 2 bikes and 3 or 4 gangers (I think one can be built as a passenger or additional foot person).
If you price the foot people at $3 each that leaves the 2 bikes at $10 each. Granted, I don't think those are amazing prices but I think they are pretty average prices.

In contrast, at Chaosorc.com
A box of GW ork bikers is ~$33
A single GW scout biker is ~$13


Or, Curious Constructs lists IG bikers at £8.00 for a single or £22 for 3.

There's loads of other bikes out there but they tend to be either overpriced OR the sculpts aren't that great OR need work to fit with what you might want to do with them.

Dropping $32 for a gang of bikers doesn't really seem like a stretch to me. Do I wish it was cheaper? Sure but I don't think it's the highway robbery it's being painted as.

$3 per mini would make sense if the kits were $30 for ten minis...a price that would lose Warlord the goodwill of anyone familiar with WGF's prices. Not an attractive price at all.

If GW sells three bikes for $33 and WLG sells 2 bikes (plus $4 worth of pedestrians in a kit no one is buying for the pedestrians) for $32, then something is very wrong. GW should not be the budget-conscious alternative.

Well.. if you take into consideration.. the starter set which I am seeing on TheWarstore for $40ish.. which lists as 23 zombies.. 10 male survivors, and the 6 gangers.. for $8 more you get a crapload more stuff.. so maybe that's closer to the types of prices you were looking for?

It's better, but still not the same value as 30 minis for $20-something. Also, it really only works for people who want all those things. Since I have no taste for zombies, it isn't much of a deal for me. Still, if they start releasing more boxes with that amount of value, it will be a nice step forward.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It's better, but still not the same value as 30 minis for $20-something. Also, it really only works for people who want all those things. Since I have no taste for zombies, it isn't much of a deal for me. Still, if they start releasing more boxes with that amount of value, it will be a nice step forward.

I think the idea there is to promote people .. (call me crazy).. buying the actual game they're for? lol shocker right?

I think if you watch the bits sellers on ebay you'll find the bikes by themselves for pretty cheap. If I were to guess.. probably the first week or two they'll start in the $10 range each maybe.. and spiral down to about $5 or $6 each (would be my wild guess plucked directly from my hairy bum). I'm planning on maybe a starter box and a few bits order bikes if I really like them

Remember that all these box sets "Also includes game cards unique to this expansion set." as it says on the Warlord Games website.

So it's 2 bikes 3/4 gangers and game cards. Ok if you want to play the game, but not so useful if you are just after the bikers.

Prices all seem fine to me, but then again I never brought from WGF. What state are WGF in now anyway, are they essentially part of WLG now?

Marleymoo wrote:
Remember that all these box sets "Also includes game cards unique to this expansion set." as it says on the Warlord Games website.

So it's 2 bikes 3/4 gangers and game cards. Ok if you want to play the game, but not so useful if you are just after the bikers.

The warlord site disagrees on the two bikes/3-4 gangers thing and has done since day 1, so I'm confused by people's continual insistence on two bikes

Contains parts to make 6 plastic gangers including 2 bikes plus 1 Gang Leader model with pillion rider (and lots of weapon options!)

We have seen the gang leader sprue and that contains another bike. So the box is 3 bikes and 6 gangers (plus the cards)

Sorry, i was just going by what other people had written. Of course it contains the biker leader sprue, adding an extra bike. I guess people are assuming the biker box set has the same amount of bikers as the boxed game, which as you point out, is incorrect.

 MLaw wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It's better, but still not the same value as 30 minis for $20-something. Also, it really only works for people who want all those things. Since I have no taste for zombies, it isn't much of a deal for me. Still, if they start releasing more boxes with that amount of value, it will be a nice step forward.

I think the idea there is to promote people .. (call me crazy).. buying the actual game they're for? lol shocker right?

What if I don't give a gak about the game? Which, I am sure, puts me in the majority of the potential customer base. The price is already harsh in a vacuum, but the kits aren't being released in a vacuum - they're repackaged WGF kits now sold at, what, 4 times the old price? That's a bitter pill to swallow for anyone who's been in the hobby longer than since yesterday. Price memory is a thing. Saying it's not too bad compared to Games freakin' Workshop is a pretty bad consolation prize when we know that, without this stellar "Warlord distribution deal" we would have boxes of 6+ bikers for the same price or less.

Warlord's sales model relies solely on players of their own game, who really won't need more than one sprue of each thing. Everybody else is priced out. I think that's a risky, narrow(minded) road to take. Especially given the rather laughable quality of the actual game rules.

Speaking of the game rules, I got a notification that they've got updated rules out there now.

Not sure what changed, it's after a quick skim still the same rather useless set of core rules that don't work without the rest of the stuff.

Am I the only one who hates the Wound/Slain/Shocked icons?

...Yes, I know its nit-picking, but still...

Marleymoo wrote:
Sorry, i was just going by what other people had written. Of course it contains the biker leader sprue, adding an extra bike. I guess people are assuming the biker box set has the same amount of bikers as the boxed game, which as you point out, is incorrect.

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be aimed at you, more just clarifying the assumption. Bad choice of quotes on my part!

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 MLaw wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It's better, but still not the same value as 30 minis for $20-something. Also, it really only works for people who want all those things. Since I have no taste for zombies, it isn't much of a deal for me. Still, if they start releasing more boxes with that amount of value, it will be a nice step forward.

I think the idea there is to promote people .. (call me crazy).. buying the actual game they're for? lol shocker right?

What if I don't give a gak about the game? Which, I am sure, puts me in the majority of the potential customer base. The price is already harsh in a vacuum, but the kits aren't being released in a vacuum - they're repackaged WGF kits now sold at, what, 4 times the old price? That's a bitter pill to swallow for anyone who's been in the hobby longer than since yesterday. Price memory is a thing. Saying it's not too bad compared to Games freakin' Workshop is a pretty bad consolation prize when we know that, without this stellar "Warlord distribution deal" we would have boxes of 6+ bikers for the same price or less.

Warlord's sales model relies solely on players of their own game, who really won't need more than one sprue of each thing. Everybody else is priced out. I think that's a risky, narrow(minded) road to take. Especially given the rather laughable quality of the actual game rules.

Sorry but WGF decided to remove themselves from the retail business and landed on Warlord as their distributor. Since the minis are no longer direct from manufacturer, the distributor has to make money too, that's a thing as well. I'm not defending WGF or Warlord but it's a bit silly to assume that the addition of an intermediary in the supply chain wouldn't result in price increases.

Now add to this that Warlord has created a skirmish level game around existing and new minis. One where the previous mass amounts of minis in one box don't make sense to them. Sure, you and others like myself Mau not care about the game but that doesn't detract from the fact that Warlord does and they don't care about other manufacturers' games that you might want the minis for, they want people to play their game.

The new arrangement may not be to your taste, or mine actually, but there it is. For hard plastic, they're still fairly reasonably priced, even if they're no longer dirt cheap.

 agnosto wrote:

Now add to this that Warlord has created a skirmish level game around existing and new minis. One where the previous mass amounts of minis in one box don't make sense to them. Sure, you and others like myself Mau not care about the game but that doesn't detract from the fact that Warlord does and they don't care about other manufacturers' games that you might want the minis for, they want people to play their game.

And that's what's so crazy about all his. So far, Warlord was selling oodles of historical minis at affordable prices to be used with whatever rules. Now with this one product line they want to go at it GW style, even though the line is completely generic, just like their historicals. I can understand going this way with GoA, but zombies? What? How will this game drive model sales when it has zero IP and the rules were phoned in? It's not even about what I want, I already have plenty of WGF figures. It's about Warlord's sales model being irrational.

overtyrant wrote:
Prices all seem fine to me, but then again I never brought from WGF. What state are WGF in now anyway, are they essentially part of WLG now?

WGF left the distribution business and is only doing contract manufacturing work - WGF is a tiny tiny division of a huge multinational plastics company (medical and industrial grade plastics, etc). It is up to the customer to find their own distributor. Their customers include: Dreamforge Games, Wild West Exodus, Malifaux, Kingdom Death, Maelstrom's Edge, and Warlord Games - who coincidentally bought most of their old in-house range, and is rebranding it as Warlord.

 MLaw wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It's better, but still not the same value as 30 minis for $20-something. Also, it really only works for people who want all those things. Since I have no taste for zombies, it isn't much of a deal for me. Still, if they start releasing more boxes with that amount of value, it will be a nice step forward.

I think the idea there is to promote people .. (call me crazy).. buying the actual game they're for? lol shocker right?

I think if you watch the bits sellers on ebay you'll find the bikes by themselves for pretty cheap. If I were to guess.. probably the first week or two they'll start in the $10 range each maybe.. and spiral down to about $5 or $6 each (would be my wild guess plucked directly from my hairy bum). I'm planning on maybe a starter box and a few bits order bikes if I really like them

If that is how the company is playing it, then they are the ones who are crazy. Not only are the game reviews mixed, but there are a ton of free options out there, which means customers will not value the rules components anywhere near so high as Warlord seems to. Also, many a new game system has died from the assumption that new customers are just waiting to buy into a new game. So far, most success stories I've seen have had value for gamers who want to buy minis for games they already play, slowly luring them into the new game the way one might coax a kitten out from under the bed with slices of maple cured turkey. It only makes matters worse for Warlord when one can compare many of their current offerings to the exact same product as it existed a year ago and see how the prices have been hiked as if by some ceiling-ninja's garrote.

Warlord is pricing as if they believe they already have our brand loyalty. I guess that's fine for you if you are already a fan, but I don't see it helping them expand. Reminds me too much of Battlefield's DUST re-release.

Honestly to me it doesn't matter about warlords reasons. I don't care if they are pricing it and boxing it for numberw in game or pricing it to make up first fact they only want to sell one box for their game. What I really care about Is the value to me and that value is quite a bit lower since the move from wgf to warlord. If we compare these boxes to the mounted samurai you would be looking at 12 mounted models or 25/ nfantry for about £16-17 pounds. Now we are looking at less than half of the number of models for a very similar price. For me that's dissapointing and its the difference between me getting one of most of each box and me maybe getting a single box.

Guys.. if you already have the WGF stuff.. and you have no interest in their game.. you might not be their target audience. It's funny to me that a lot of people seem to expect companies to cater to their specific needs. WGF is not in the picture anymore and yeah.. it was awesome to be able to get their stuff cheap. These bikers were never released by WGF.. so saying that they are losing value is misguided. The survivors.. yeah. I get it. If you're wise and search around, you can still find those at the WGF prices from online retailers (I've seen them in a few places).

WGF was not releasing pieces for a game. All of what Warlord is doing is centered around their game. These aren't pieces they're just releasing in a vacuum. As I said previously, bits sellers will be selling the bikes by themselves. They'd be insane not to. So, if you were probably not going to buy direct anyway, then why does it matter if you're buying the bikes from a bits seller or a discount retailer like MM?
What price does everyone expect to see the bikes at? 20 for $5? 10 for $10? 5 for $20? I think a lot of people are thinking that what WGF was offering was somehow reflective of the rest of the miniature gaming world. That's just not the case. I can't think of very many companies outside of a few historical manufacturers offering plastic kits for anything close to that price at MSRP.

The starter box for this is a fantastic value. If you don't need the extra rules and stuff.. toss them, ebay them, give them to a friend, donate them to your FLGS.. $40 for what.. 42 models? All the other stuff is listed as expansions and is priced accordingly.

Still think the prices WLG are offering are pretty reasonable and I'm considering picking the whole lot up if they can improve the rules and I think it's a bargain!

£27 for that starter box from Dark Sphere, 40-odd assorted miniatures think that's worth it even if you end up binning the rules.

 MLaw wrote:
Guys.. if you already have the WGF stuff.. and you have no interest in their game.. you might not be their target audience. It's funny to me that a lot of people seem to expect companies to cater to their specific needs.

Like...backpacks and hobgoblins?

I don't think it is too unusual for customers/potential customers to want specific things from companies - not at all.

Now, maybe it might be unusual if companies actually really did start catering to customers' every whim!

 Alpharius wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
Guys.. if you already have the WGF stuff.. and you have no interest in their game.. you might not be their target audience. It's funny to me that a lot of people seem to expect companies to cater to their specific needs.

Like...backpacks and hobgoblins?

I don't think it is too unusual for customers/potential customers to want specific things from companies - not at all.

Now, maybe it might be unusual if companies actually really did start catering to customers' every whim!

Exactly like backpacks and hobgoblins! Actually..that's kinda closer to my point.. I think Kickstarters and close interaction with customers during those has gotten many of us (myself included) into the habit of assuming suggestions will filter in. Warlord though, IMO is closer to GW and Mantic where they're really a bit too big to be taking our feedback directly. Guys like Tre or Maxmini or Puppetswar take our input all the time.. so it's a bit of a different ballpark but the influence from that definitely has created expectations I think.

 MLaw wrote:
Guys.. if you already have the WGF stuff.. and you have no interest in their game.. you might not be their target audience. It's funny to me that a lot of people seem to expect companies to cater to their specific needs.

What's funny to me is that you don't seem to understand that I'm making objective observations that have nothing to do with what I personally want or need from Warlord Games. I am questioning their decision to market these kits solely to players interested in Warlord's own game because I doubt the size of that particular market is even worth the manhours it took to put the rulebook together and because it is at odds with Warlord's usual sales model.

More and more retailers (at least at the B&M level) won't stock anything that isn't tied into an actual game or named range

offering random zombie, survivor, biker and mixed modern special forces kits would mean warlord couldn't access stores running like that

but bolt them together with a tiny rule book, and a starter set (I'm sure the minis will be available separately too) and the very same stores will at least consider stocking some or all of it

Well I'm not the slightest bit interested in the game, I just want to pick up the Survivors and Bikers for Fallout (This is Not a Test).

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
More and more retailers (at least at the B&M level) won't stock anything that isn't tied into an actual game or named range

offering random zombie, survivor, biker and mixed modern special forces kits would mean warlord couldn't access stores running like that

but bolt them together with a tiny rule book, and a starter set (I'm sure the minis will be available separately too) and the very same stores will at least consider stocking some or all of it

The problem is that Warlord made the game, then used the game as a justification to triple the prices. That's more than just trying to get their product into stores.

I also believe that warlord are vastly overestimating the draw of their game.

At least some of that price rise was bound to happen considering they have to recoup the investment of buying all that stuff from WGF. Unless you think WGF just handed the keys over and said, "here ya go!"

 agnosto wrote:
At least some of that price rise was bound to happen considering they have to recoup the investment of buying all that stuff from WGF. Unless you think WGF just handed the keys over and said, "here ya go!"

Some, sure.

As someone who loved the variety and pricing of WGF's kits, this pretty much destroys a lot of the utility of the range for me. My customer loyalty could have transferred to Warlord just fine if they had presented the change differently and made soothing noises about the drop in availability and surge in prices. I would have absorbed reasonable price increases if the value was close enough and there were some intangible bones thrown my way. I would have still kvetched--a customer, it is always in my interest to push for lower prices on the off chance that it will have some effect, squeaky wheels getting the grease and all--but it would just have been a formality rather than a Mantic'ing of the brand name.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
At least some of that price rise was bound to happen considering they have to recoup the investment of buying all that stuff from WGF. Unless you think WGF just handed the keys over and said, "here ya go!"

Some, sure.

As someone who loved the variety and pricing of WGF's kits, this pretty much destroys a lot of the utility of the range for me. My customer loyalty could have transferred to Warlord just fine if they had presented the change differently and made soothing noises about the drop in availability and surge in prices. I would have absorbed reasonable price increases if the value was close enough and there were some intangible bones thrown my way. I would have still kvetched--a customer, it is always in my interest to push for lower prices on the off chance that it will have some effect, squeaky wheels getting the grease and all--but it would just have been a formality rather than a Mantic'ing of the brand name.

You're right, they won't know they're losing customers unless people tell them. For me, the prices are pretty reasonable for what you're getting; not insane value like the old WGF kits but fairly bog-standard for the industry considering it's HIPS and all the bits/customization options on the kits. That said, I can certainly see someone being a bit put out over the splitting of the kits and a more expensive price tag.

I don't have a use for any of this anyway; their lackluster "rules" killed the deal on my end. I was looking for something more I guess.