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 Azazelx wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think a mistake many people here seem to be making is that they see anything in power armour as a 'Space Marine release', regardless of what that release is.

When GW does a Grey Knight or Death Guard release what they're releasing is a Grey Knight or Death Guard release, not a 'Space Marine release'.

Are we assuming that if you play one variety of Space Marine suddenly everything that isn't Xenos is somehow a release for "your" army? Because that's absurd and just untrue.

I don't play DA. I don't play BA. I don't play Woofs. I don't play GKs. GW has updated 3 of the 4 armies I just mentioned, but none of them were a 'Space Marine' release that was somehow relevant to my Ultramarines, Deathwatch, Word Bearer, World Eaters or Death Guard armies.

Wait, so you mean I can't use the Myphitic Blight Haulers I just bought with the Celestial Lions I've been painting? I thought they were all Space Marines? Curse you, GW!

the "power armor" fixation is even stranger. I mean Necron immortals have almost the same stat line as Marines, with necron warriors not being much differant from space marine scouts stat wise. should we just declare them "XENOS POWER ARMOR" and lump them in the mix of "WAIT FOR EVERYONE ELSE"?

Are there any new actual rumors or news for thousand sons? Also I think people are forgetting the decades of one or two releases a year. I mean come on they already put out codex for 11 armies in like 6 months. This is still much better than not going for a years and years.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think a mistake many people here seem to be making is that they see anything in power armour as a 'Space Marine release', regardless of what that release is.

When GW does a Grey Knight or Death Guard release what they're releasing is a Grey Knight or Death Guard release, not a 'Space Marine release'.

Are we assuming that if you play one variety of Space Marine suddenly everything that isn't Xenos is somehow a release for "your" army? Because that's absurd and just untrue.

I don't play DA. I don't play BA. I don't play Woofs. I don't play GKs. GW has updated 3 of the 4 armies I just mentioned, but none of them were a 'Space Marine' release that was somehow relevant to my Ultramarines, Deathwatch, Word Bearer, World Eaters or Death Guard armies.

Wait, so you mean I can't use the Myphitic Blight Haulers I just bought with the Celestial Lions I've been painting? I thought they were all Space Marines? Curse you, GW!

the "power armor" fixation is even stranger. I mean Necron immortals have almost the same stat line as Marines, with necron warriors not being much differant from space marine scouts stat wise. should we just declare them "XENOS POWER ARMOR" and lump them in the mix of "WAIT FOR EVERYONE ELSE"?

I can't speak for everyone else but for me, when I say 'marines' I lump all those factions you rattled off in together+chaos daemons. The distinctions between marine factions really only matter to the people that play those factions. For non-marine players the only real difference between a blood claw, sanguinary guardsman, deathwing knight, vanguard vet, or daemonette is what color you paint them. That said, who gives a gak what comes out next? It's not gonna be SoB so it has no super historical significance and if it's not your faction it just lets you put more money towards...idk investment portfolios or cheetos or w/e.

Besides, give it 18 months or so and no one will have an 'army' anyway; it'll be the same superheavy detachment of whatever 4-5 primarchs are the best for each faction on every table.

no offense man but if you don't care about the differance between a death wing knight and a deamonette you proably don't win many games

Yeah, arguing chaos demons (arguably the most unique army in terms of playstyle) is the same as the various SM flavors is just weird.

If we can lump Power Armour and daemons together, we can lump Xenos together.

Xenos have gotten two releases, calm down. Its better they get all the Power Armour done together so they will be somewhat on the same balance rather than wildly skewed balance like we used to get between marine books.

 Crazyterran wrote:
If we can lump Power Armour and daemons together, we can lump Xenos together.

Xenos have gotten two releases, calm down. Its better they get all the Power Armour done together so they will be somewhat on the same balance rather than wildly skewed balance like we used to get between marine books.

yeah mean the days when one codex had a rhino cost 45 points, and one codex it cost 50, and the 50 point rhino was missing a rule?

BrianDavion wrote:
the "power armor" fixation is even stranger. I mean Necron immortals have almost the same stat line as Marines, with necron warriors not being much differant from space marine scouts stat wise. should we just declare them "XENOS POWER ARMOR" and lump them in the mix of "WAIT FOR EVERYONE ELSE"?

What is even funnier is the fact the people complaining about power armour usually want more xenos. Main xeno thing left to do for GW are aspect warriors, who, both in fluff and in statline, all wear a power armour. So, GW is just listening to you, people

Anyway, yeah, is there anything bar IG, gangs/cults, and daemons in 40K that can be called not a power armour and not complained about? Even tyranids, if you try as hard as complainers do, wear chitin 'power armour', Tau have it on all elite units, orks certainly use a lot of it, what is left, again...?

BrianDavion wrote:
the 1k sons getting mutants to fill out their roster makes sense. they're the thousand sons. the army being a few "sorcrer kings and their body guard" supported by hoards of tzeetch cultists makes some sense.and gives them a unique flavor.

No it doesn't. TS are rubrics and sorcerers. If you add mutated gak, i repeat, that would be a "Codex: disciples of tzeentch", but not a "Codex: Thousand Sons".

BrianDavion wrote:as for 1k sons "having to share a thread with the custodes" this is hardly new. GW's been announcing their codices in pairs since 8th edition hit

I was referring to this very thread here in Dakkadakka. I don't understand why it cannot have a thread for the Adeptus Custodes and another thread for the Thousand Sons codex. They are clearly two differents subjects i think, and it hardly would break the server...

AegisGrimm wrote:I really don't see why its so bad that Thousand Sons will get the other kits Tzaangors (fulfilling the same thing as cultists for other legions, but much more fluffy for Tzeench), and a giant gribbly Chaos monster.

Its not like there is a factory putting out Rubric marines and Terminators. The ones that exist will be the solid core of an army, surrounded by tons of stuff that epitomizes the Chaos god of Sorcery, like bird-beastmen, guys on flying disks, and big mutated things. Then add all the daemons, too.

Again. I will repeat myself. That would be "servants of Tzeentch" or "Disciples of Tzeentch" or "Tzeentch all-flavours soup", but not "Codex: Thousand Sons".

Brometheus wrote:
I've been playing Thousand Sons for almost 15 years and I don't understand what the issue is.

With the exception of VERY recent fluff with heavy Tzaangor use (Wrath of Magnus, upcoming Codex), f you think Thousand Sons have more than sorcerers and Rubrics you need to read John French's Ahriman series.

And that is exactly what i wanted. Not beastmen.

Arachnofiend wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
each space marine army tends towards a theme as well, death guard for example, is the slow resiliant foe marching forward. playing more like necrons then say...1k sons which is a army of eltie psykers padded pit with chaff

...Okay, even as someone who's generally okay with the tzaangors I have to question if it's worth reshaping the Thousand Sons identity into being a chaff army. Rubric Marines are just as much of an elite resilient infantry unit as Plague Marines are.

This. Totally agreed.

H.B.M.C. wrote:1KSons already had Tzaangors. Why does adding two extra Tzaangor units change this?

I quote you, but to address all comments: Because is just lazy design. They doesn't flesh out the options and units for the TS... They just grab two kits for fantasy (or whatever is called) and write some rules to stick them in the codex. Fantasy units. They have bows, ffs... That is just lazy lazy and boring design. One thing is to share models for the Demons of Chaos that are the same creatures, but i think that for a legion of chaos space marines it's just wrong... I thought you would understand that, according to other previous post i read from you. And it is not what a proper Thousand Sons codex would be.

This is how a proper TS codex should look like (well, the contents of that section):



From this codex:



Just take that all and translate it into 8th edition. Really is that so difficult? The work is already done...

What units does a proper codex would have?

-TS standard rubrics
- rubric terminators
- a unit of sorcerers
- a unit of terminator sorcerers
and then various characters for a bit of variety (lesser sorcerer, high ranking sorcerer, named characters...), and some flavourized vehicles, like for example a rubric dreadnought or a psychic dreadnought (after all if the blood angels can have one i don't understand why the TS not), or maybe a predator with some sort of warp flamer weaponry. That would be it. Just that. Add some demons and beastmen as auxiliary units if you like, but the main focus and bulk of the army should be the Thousand Sons marines, in one or other way.

I have been playing with TS since 3rd edition started (before the 3.5 codex) and a proper full codex for the Thousand Sons is what i wanted all these years. But it seems that GW is not able to do that. They will make a lazy piece of... s... paper, just like the Death Guard codex have the exact same units from the index (the ones that are not DG proper) without adding any benefits of rules for being of the DG or having the mark of Nurgle. Or like the demons codex is just a lazy copy-paste from the index. Is just very very disappointing. And just lazy and boring.
Yes, as other user said they are launching a lot of codexes in these months, but they are really not good. I would have preferred having 1/3 of the codexes released but properly fleshed out and written, and (why not) with some new miniatures as well.

And why i am so disappointed about the lack of new models? Because as GW has showed us, if there are no new models, there are not new rules for the units or any chance to make a nice codex. I would not have any problem if they make a codex with multiple unit entries for every kit (like the GK codex), but this will not be the case. We have a kit for Exalted sorcerers = unit entry Exalted sorcerer, a kit for rubric marines = unit entry rubric marines, etc... Its not the models per se, it is the lack of units and proper representation of the army according to the background and story that it has.

With the current model kits it would be really easy to make conversions to represent all the units i mentioned before. A unit of sorcerers would be really easy to build just using the exalted sorcerers kit mixed with rubric marines. Rubric or psychic dreadnought would be equally easy to convert from the contemptor dread...

But no, GW is just bad and lazy writing their codexes. They just throw in there some more tzaangors and a random mutated beast from fantasy. And they call it codex Thousand Sons, and everybody is perfectly fine with that...

I have been over this in the other treads but Tzaangors are not a new addition to TS, they were there in the original Realm of Chaos books!(See pic below) And considering they hail from the planet of sorcerers and the TS employ them, I dont see why they wouldn't fit a in a "Thousand sons" codex?



Oh and the the 3.5 army list you posted was limited by the fact that it was a variation on the standard CSM codex, now that TS have their own codex they can be fully fleshed out, and not just be a different flavour of undivided CSM

 Irbis wrote:
What is even funnier is the fact the people complaining about power armour usually want more xenos. Main xeno thing left to do for GW are aspect warriors, who, both in fluff and in statline, all wear a power armour. So, GW is just listening to you, people

Anyway, yeah, is there anything bar IG, gangs/cults, and daemons in 40K that can be called not a power armour and not complained about? Even tyranids, if you try as hard as complainers do, wear chitin 'power armour', Tau have it on all elite units, orks certainly use a lot of it, what is left, again...?

I lost several brain cells reading this message. Please send me 10$ to compensate for the loss.

Thousand Sons already got several new kits just last year. And to repeat: if you don't like the gors, don't include them!

 Crazyterran wrote:
If we can lump Power Armour and daemons together, we can lump Xenos together.

Xenos have gotten two releases, calm down. Its better they get all the Power Armour done together so they will be somewhat on the same balance rather than wildly skewed balance like we used to get between marine books.

Yep, 2/8 xenos factions have gotten releases (not counting ynnari as a faction since they have three models lol).

Compare to: 6/10 imperial factions (counting Assassins, Knights, SoS, inquisition as one "miscellaneous imperial stuff" faction, counting sisters as their own faction on the assumpion they'll probably end up with a small-scale plastic release), and 4/4 chaos factions.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this is why xenos players seem salty. How annoyed do you think marine players would be if we got releases for Genestealer Cults, Harlequins, and a full Ynnari model release before Codex: Space Marines?

The complaint is not that xenos races should come before factions like Space Marines, Chaos, or Guard in terms of priority. Obviously that covers a large chunk of your player base. The complaint is that minor factions like the Emperors Personal Sponge Bath Crew are getting precedence over factions like Orks, who are among the largest playerbases and oldest/most iconic factions to exist in 40k.

Custodians in January, Orks waiting all the way to, what, June? That's completely out of wack, and people have the right to complain about how BS that is.

the_scotsman wrote:
Custodians in January, Orks waiting all the way to, what, June? That's completely out of wack, and people have the right to complain about how BS that is.

In your calculations, do you ever take into account that 8th edition has been available for less than 7 months?

 gorgon wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Custodians in January, Orks waiting all the way to, what, June? That's completely out of wack, and people have the right to complain about how BS that is.

In your calculations, do you ever take into account that 8th edition has been available for less than 7 months?

Yep! But when a large part of the selling point of each codex that comes out is how it is designed to be superior to all index armies, people are going to be impatient to get their stuff.

Look at how Custodes are being advertised here: Look how easily a single squad of troops from this awesome new codex can delete 30 models from this sad, pathetic, second-class index faction! ha ha it's the only viable unit they have and they're totally invalidated by five models!

Indexes are going to become less and less playable as time goes on. If CA actually did as it was advertised, i.e. grant index armies the means to actually compete, then this wouldn't be an issue. But it didn't. It didn't do anything of substance, really.

8th has been out 7 months, and it's taken 7 months to fall completely back into the "god tier armies/worthless crap armies" pit that we were in at the end of seventh. Bravo, GW! Hail corporate!

 gorgon wrote:
In your calculations, do you ever take into account that 8th edition has been available for less than 7 months?

Yes.

 Warpspy wrote:

I quote you, but to address all comments: Because is just lazy design. They doesn't flesh out the options and units for the TS... They just grab two kits for fantasy (or whatever is called) and write some rules to stick them in the codex. Fantasy units. They have bows, ffs...

Mind pointing out where you see the bows?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/tzaangors

Because the above is kinda completely wrong, though that's not so unusual in GW complains department...

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I lost several brain cells reading this message. Please send me 10$ to compensate for the loss.

If reading two sentences is too difficult for you, maybe you should take a good long look in the mirror before blaming others, eh?

Daedalus81 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think a mistake many people here seem to be making is that they see anything in power armour as a 'Space Marine release', regardless of what that release is.

When GW does a Grey Knight or Death Guard release what they're releasing is a Grey Knight or Death Guard release, not a 'Space Marine release'.

Are we assuming that if you play one variety of Space Marine suddenly everything that isn't Xenos is somehow a release for "your" army? Because that's absurd and just untrue.

I don't play DA. I don't play BA. I don't play Woofs. I don't play GKs. GW has updated 3 of the 4 armies I just mentioned, but none of them were a 'Space Marine' release that was somehow relevant to my Ultramarines, Deathwatch, Word Bearer, World Eaters or Death Guard armies.

Very much this.

People that are happy : got something or are generally glad to see a fast pace of releases.
People that are mad: didn't get something for their army yet or didn't get enough of what they thought they should get.

All these classifications of armies are thinly veiled attempts to justify their feelings.

And it's fine to be upset you didn't get hit yet. I was bummed that TS didn't make the 2017 cut, but I didn't start a crusade over it. Have some patience for once people - this is the shortest amount of time you've ever had to wait for a codex.

I will say AoS a different beast where the world isn't fleshed out yet, but GW continues to push flavors of Stormcast. It sounds like 2018 will rectify this a bit.

Like I said, can't see the wood for the trees.

The different space marines are still just variations on a theme, and HBMC virtually proved it in his post because you can buy a box of Tactical Marines and use them in most of those forces he named with little to no trouble.

Part of the problem here is that people like you think we're acting selfish because it's not our army that isn't getting an update. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. The problem is that this game is quickly turning into Space Marine vs Space Marine due to the understandable propensity of people to buy the new kits and shy away from the old stuff because a lot of it is terrible in comparison or failcast. I don't want new stuff specifically for my armies, Dark Eldar and Nids aren't in particular need of it and my Eldar Wraith army at least is fine (though new Guardians and Aspects would be very much appreciated), but more variety in my opponents would be very nice especially when you know there are people who will build an army out of the new stuff because it looks good.

 Irbis wrote:

 Warpspy wrote:

I quote you, but to address all comments: Because is just lazy design. They doesn't flesh out the options and units for the TS... They just grab two kits for fantasy (or whatever is called) and write some rules to stick them in the codex. Fantasy units. They have bows, ffs...

Mind pointing out where you see the bows?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/tzaangors

Because the above is kinda completely wrong, though that's not so unusual in GW complains department..

Helps if you look at the right kit...

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Tzaangor-Skyfires

Personally I'm happy to see more of the Tzaangors in 40K so I can use more of my Disciples in both games. Hopefully the Ogroid Thaumaturge will cross over as well.

It's actually surprising they didn't bring the Ogroid in some form, that model is pretty good.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

 Irbis wrote:

 Warpspy wrote:

I quote you, but to address all comments: Because is just lazy design. They doesn't flesh out the options and units for the TS... They just grab two kits for fantasy (or whatever is called) and write some rules to stick them in the codex. Fantasy units. They have bows, ffs...

Mind pointing out where you see the bows?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/tzaangors

Because the above is kinda completely wrong, though that's not so unusual in GW complains department...

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I lost several brain cells reading this message. Please send me 10$ to compensate for the loss.

If reading two sentences is too difficult for you, maybe you should take a good long look in the mirror before blaming others, eh?

He was referring to these, [EDIT, can't get the link to work but it's been provided above], since GW had already said these and the Enlightened alternate build will be in the Thousand Sons codex. Which I am happy about, I'm considering building a Thousand Sons force so more variety is good. And the complaint about them having bows is ridiculous when every army in the game uses swords and spears, heck one fo the sapce puppy's throws a hammer!

As for your last comment, if you can't figure out that everything with a 3+ save isn't automatically power armour then you need to spend a lot more time looking at the models.

Can you edit ton add a space before the colon? The url is broken rn.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Can you edit ton add a space before the colon? The url is broken rn.

Look at my post above...

It's not about my specific army not already being updated with an 8th ed. codex (that is annoying, but 'Crons are supposed to have a codex in the next couple months), it's that we're only seeing new kits and new armies for Imperial or Chaos factions for the last few years with the exception of GSC and three Ynnari. Since the beginning of 2016, how many new kits are under the banner of Imperial and Chaos, and how many are under the banner of Xenos? Do you see the difference? That is why we're annoyed.

 Imateria wrote:

And the complaint about them having bows is ridiculous when every army in the game uses swords and spears, heck one fo the sapce puppy's throws a hammer!

Yeah, I mean, we aren't talking about a medieval longbow. We're talking about a demonic, magical bow made in space-hell, right? I'm pretty sure something like that can be on par with laser guns.

Its not even a standard Long Bow in the Mortal Realms either.

yeah its not like any models in 40k have ever used bow and arrow technology before

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/greyfax-horz.jpg

That would look incredibly out of place and wrong in the 40k setting, which never borrows any imagery from old-style medieval weaponry.

 xeen wrote:
Are there any new actual rumors or news for thousand sons? Also I think people are forgetting the decades of one or two releases a year. I mean come on they already put out codex for 11 armies in like 6 months. This is still much better than not going for a years and years.

I had to wait 12 years for my Dark Eldar to get a new codex back in the day, the internet age has made people horrendously impatient. People need leaks for a white dwarf for feth sake! White dwarf was where we used to get previews!

 Ghaz wrote:
Look at my post above...

I'm perfectly able to remove the extra colon on the url bar myself, no worries. I just wanted to provide guidance to Imateria so that everyone else could just click the link.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I had to wait 12 years for my Dark Eldar to get a new codex back in the day

12 years only? Amateur!