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Assuming the Imperium falls (which it inevitably will), Chaos will likely engulf much of the galaxy (at least as far as GW has let on). However, certain groups will inevitably surive. The C'tan will become completely dormant once more and the Dark Eldar will hide in Commorragh, leaving the Orks and Tyranids (Tau and Eldar would be wiped out). Assuming Chaos has focused more on consuming what remains of the Imperium, leaving the two groups to their own devices, which side do you think will dominate what remains of the galaxy? Consider numbers, territory, strategy, influence of Chaos etc.

I think in the end it will come down to Necrons vs Tyranids. That assumed the C'Tan don't just decide a galaxy completely devoid of life is to their liking and step aside to let the `Nids take out the trash for them.

Why not Orks? They thrive on war just as much as Tyranids, and have "similar" populations to boot.

Because tyranids eat orks.

Orcs die, and leave spores which take a while to grow into fight ready ors.

Tyranids die, and other tyranids eat them and are ready to go again in a matter or days or weeks.

Besides, the planet side fights really won't matter if it's just orcs and tyranids. I don't think the orcs would even be close to taking on the hive fleets in space.

Veldrain wrote:
Besides, the planet side fights really won't matter if it's just orcs and tyranids. I don't think the orcs would even be close to taking on the hive fleets in space.

Space Hulks and Asteroid Feilds.

Veldrain wrote:Because tyranids eat orks.

Orcs die, and leave spores which take a while to grow into fight ready ors.

Tyranids die, and other tyranids eat them and are ready to go again in a matter or days or weeks.

Besides, the planet side fights really won't matter if it's just orcs and tyranids. I don't think the orcs would even be close to taking on the hive fleets in space.

Don't underestimate Orks. Many of their enemies have that aren't around any more.

The Orks have several advantages:
For every one that dies, thousands of spores, and eventually tens of Orks, will be scattered across the planet. Contrarily, every Tyranid that dies replenishes only itself. If the kill ratio is about 1:1 (assuming the Tyranids bring their large bio-constructs to bear), then the Orks will gain a bonus of roughly 5-20 Boyz for each of them that falls. If the Orks can hold on to a few worlds long enough to establish a large enough population, they should have no problem holding the Tyranids at bay.

Shrouger wrote:The Orks have several advantages:
For every one that dies, thousands of spores, and eventually tens of Orks, will be scattered across the planet. Contrarily, every Tyranid that dies replenishes only itself. If the kill ratio is about 1:1 (assuming the Tyranids bring their large bio-constructs to bear), then the Orks will gain a bonus of roughly 5-20 Boyz for each of them that falls. If the Orks can hold on to a few worlds long enough to establish a large enough population, they should have no problem holding the Tyranids at bay.

And if more boyz can make it from neighbouring planets/systems to fight it out it gives more time for the spores to grow new boyz. Its meant to take a few months for spores to do their work. Days for new tyranid organisms to be grown.

Actually, Tyranids can reproduce in moments under certain circumstances.

Oh, and if the Jormungandr(can't remember how to spell) is any example of what the Hive Mind is capable of, for those of you who don't own a Tyranid codex, the Hive Mind flung asteroids at the planet. Yes, it FLUNG ASTEROIDS at a planet, along with it's Mycetic Spores, who's contents soon burrowed on impact. Honestly, Tyranids have their own "Rokk" attack now...

Shrouger wrote:The Orks have several advantages:
For every one that dies, thousands of spores, and eventually tens of Orks, will be scattered across the planet. Contrarily, every Tyranid that dies replenishes only itself. If the kill ratio is about 1:1 (assuming the Tyranids bring their large bio-constructs to bear), then the Orks will gain a bonus of roughly 5-20 Boyz for each of them that falls. If the Orks can hold on to a few worlds long enough to establish a large enough population, they should have no problem holding the Tyranids at bay.

You realize that Hormagaunts lay eggs right?

-Loki- wrote:

Shrouger wrote:The Orks have several advantages:
For every one that dies, thousands of spores, and eventually tens of Orks, will be scattered across the planet. Contrarily, every Tyranid that dies replenishes only itself. If the kill ratio is about 1:1 (assuming the Tyranids bring their large bio-constructs to bear), then the Orks will gain a bonus of roughly 5-20 Boyz for each of them that falls. If the Orks can hold on to a few worlds long enough to establish a large enough population, they should have no problem holding the Tyranids at bay.

You realize that Hormagaunts lay eggs right?

Source?

As far as I know unless specified to do so (such as those new gaunt spawning beasties) no tyranids produce offspring other than norn queens.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hormagaunt

4th Paragraph down, read up!

Wow, when did that become canon?

corpsesarefun wrote:Wow, when did that become canon?

The current codex. Its in their description. When they make planetfall they lay the eggs. These rapidly mature and come out as a second wave after the initial one has done its work to wear down the enemy.

I don't have my 5th Ed. codex on me right now. So, it's either the 5th Ed. or 3rd Ed.

Oh ok then, I haven't read the new 'dex yet so that makes sense.

Spores take quite a while to grow to a boy. By that time, ripper swarms have drained the planet and the spores dry.

Even if the orcs do win, there are going to be so many planets that simply can't sustain life anymore that it won't really matter.

The Orks of Octarius: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ork_Empire_of_Octarius

They seem to be holding out fairly well, arguably battling Hive Fleet Leviathan to a stand-still, despite reports of the Swarmlord joining the fray.

Question is whether this is a one off occurance, or the other Ork infested sectors could do this as well.

There is one other point; if the Orks have nothing else to fight (Chaos and C'tan are busy with each other, and all other races are either dead or in hiding), they'll turn their full might against the Tyranids. Granted, other Hive Fleets will ultimately arrive to support those currently in the galaxy, but by that time, the Orks will have rallied and embarked on a new Waaagh! with every Ork tribe within range of the Hive Fleets joining in.

The imperium of man will not fall. It's called the star child cycle.

The assumption is that the Imperium has fallen (hence the entire topic)

But for the sake of argument;
There are differing views regarding the Starchild; many Inquisitors deem the entire concept to be heresy, while others are advocating that the Emperor be allowed to die. At the moment, there is a great deal of uncertainty on the subject, so we will have to give most of the Inquisitors/High Lords of Terra the benefit of the doubt and assume that the Emperor's death would spell doom for humanity.

Actually the thing about Hormagaunts laying eggs was in the 2nd ed Codex. I'm pretty sure the fluff section in the current 5th ed codex is a copy job of the original stuff, given the current book also referenced Hormagaunts having 4 scything talons, like the original 2nd ed models, while the current ones only have 2.

There's also story, either in this Ed's book of the previous, about an Inquiisitor who wanted to slow down the advance of a particular Hive Fleet, and so lured it into a heavily Ork infested sector of space. It was a long fight, and succeeded in slowing down the Hive Fleet, but in the end the `Nids not only won, but came out much stronger from all the field testing and bonus Biomass.

Also, when you talk of Orks and their spores, keep in mind those spores are Biomass, and the `Nids will eat them before they grow.

Other than Macragg, has there been Any stories of a full blown `Nid invasion being stopped once they went planet side other than by destroying the planet via Exterminatus (which some `Nids have been known to survive still)?

But the Orks in more heavily populated areas will certainly be able to hold of the Tyranids long enough for at least some of the spores to successfully transform into Boyz. Additionally, as I mentioned before, the Tyranids present even greater potential for Waaagh! without end than Armaggedon (and look how many billions of Orks it drew). It seems safe to say that the Orks will easily last long enough for a new generation to replace the fallen.

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:The Orks of Octarius: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ork_Empire_of_Octarius

They seem to be holding out fairly well, arguably battling Hive Fleet Leviathan to a stand-still, despite reports of the Swarmlord joining the fray.

Question is whether this is a one off occurance, or the other Ork infested sectors could do this as well.

Who do you think the rumored unknown force the Nids are running from are .

Aduro wrote: Other than Macragg, has there been Any stories of a full blown `Nid invasion being stopped once they went planet side other than by destroying the planet via Exterminatus (which some `Nids have been known to survive still)?

Depends what you define by 'full blown Tyranid invasion'.

There are multiple accounts of large splinter fleets having been defeated by Imperial Forces without resorting to Exterminatus, usually through a combination of Naval superiority, thus destruction of the Hive Ships (Although this has been achieved by Deathwatch insertion), and assassination of the more powerful creatures in the swarm that may lead it to victory regardless (Tyrants, any synapse creatures they can get their blades near.) This is generally only when Astartes join the battle against the swarm however, as it requires a precision ground-based strike with over-whelming force and speed.

The defence of Tarsis Ultra is one that really pops out (Portrayed in Warriors of Ultramar), as well as Aurelia if you include it (The planet DoWII is set on).

Macragge is the only Imperial defense against a full Hive Fleet I can think of however, although Kryptman is the reason that the Orks and the nids are going at it at the moment. The battle for the Octarius sector could go either way, the orks are holding their own, and it's been raging for quite some time, 10 years according to some sources, with neither side gaining the upper hand (Although the Saim-hann Eldar entered the fray and launched action against the Imperial and Ork worlds in the area, not the Devourer, so that might say the Orks are gaining the upper hand slowly with boyz flocking from all around the system to join in.), so that might just be joining the ranks soon.

Nids eat a planet's biomass so there will be no spores to develop later. Of course the nids would have to eat the remaining rock and debris too or the orks would come back later and spread spore over the bare rock which is how I assume they were able to combat the C'tan back in the day because the C'tan must have stripped all atmosphere from the planets they destroyed to prevent life re-establishing.

cadbren wrote:Nids eat a planet's biomass so there will be no spores to develop later. Of course the nids would have to eat the remaining rock and debris too or the orks would come back later and spread spore over the bare rock which is how I assume they were able to combat the C'tan back in the day because the C'tan must have stripped all atmosphere from the planets they destroyed to prevent life re-establishing.

Back in the day? The nids weren't apparently in the galaxy the last time the necrons were active.

He means back in the day when the C'tan were threatening to destroy the Old Ones/Brainboyz. It just shows that the Orks back then were able to resist the Star Gods, and that now that their technology has developed substantially (from a mixture of looting and scavenging) they should be able to stop the Tyranids dead in their tracks. Once they can set up a defensive line of sorts (basically a string of planets that the Tyranids cannot easily bypass or capture), they will receive periodic reinforcements from other systems and from the spores the fallen will inevitable produce.

Really though; the Orks have been fighting since before the Emperor was in nappies (to quote Ciaphas Cain), against foes just as implacable, if not more so, than the Tyranids.

"What if the tyranids aren't invading, but running..." - now that would be a good fight!

Please, the Eldar have survived worse than that! The Eldar would likley retreat into the Webway, fighting a gurilla war against both sides.