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Mawhawk wrote:Im not speaking for all orks but... fighting crunchy bugs is a hell lot of fun, toss in some imperials...if i were a boss i would prefer to fight endlessly, orks fight to fight, not fight to win.

That's a big reason I think the Ork's have a lot of drawbacks in battle. They do a lot of things in battle that cause more death and destruction, but these arent necessarily tactically sound. This could be a MAJOR drawback in larger conflicts with the Tyranid.

You couldn't really say Orks outnumber Tyranids could you?

It's never been mentioned how many Tyranids are still outside the galaxy.

I don't know how adaptable the Orks are but the latest Nid codex talked about the Tyranids adapting against the Tau weaponry so it became ineffective. Fortunately the Tau are apparently the most adaptable race known and defeated the Hive fleet. It didn't make clear if this specific fleet was exclusively this adaptable or just that they had to adapt because the Tau were so adaptable

Isn't it more likely that the Nids would do the same thing and become immune to the Orks weaponry?

Also on the offensive the Nids might just poison the Orks.

In Xenology they experiment on an Ork's corpse and its spores. Using simple herbicide the "the tiniest amount was corrosive to orkflesh, but at a microscopic level. A Miracle! The alagal helix was burned through - not destroyed, but slowed. I left the spores to grow for an hour and came back to find untidy structures, lopsided and tumorous: wretched amalgams of Orkoid species."

If the Imperium has discovered this then maybe the Orks days are numbered and the Tyranids wouldn't have anything to fight.

yeah but how will the imperium use this on a large scale because anything takes (sometimes) a milenium to get through the checks and stuff soooooo they probably wont kill them and the orks are currently one of the most proffitable species for GW at the moment and i cant see them getting rid of them anytime soon

I have nothing but the utmost respect for the speed and potency of the Tyranid evolutionary miracle. Unfortunately orks shoot hard unforgiving slugs/bolts/bullets/shell's and tons of other things. A really hard carapace is about the only thing you can do against a projectile weapon. The 'nids developed an immunity to ion weaponry because it works on a molecular level.

I think it was pulse ammo and kroots weapons. That they became resistant to. They're projectiles aren't they? S5 AP5 would imply harder hitting weapons than the orks standard gun.

Of course this is all hypothectical Ultrasmurf. GW wouldn't kill anything off. If you just go with what sells well the Space Marines are always going to win.

Not sure about what checks need to be carried out with herbicide being used to kill Orks. "We don't want to cause undue suffering in the greenskins"

I don't know if those records ever made it from the lab as a clever necron thing seems to take over at the end.

But that'd would mean the necron know of the weakeness too.

I just think its funny that simple weedkiller is the most powerful weapon against the Orks.

It's a projectile in a sense, but when it hits the target it does more than just mushroom against the target and cause kinetic damage

The problem is that all these adaptations take away from some other aspect of the bio-form in question (otherwise the 'Nids would have all the adaptations brought up here and more). For example, a harder carapace would also need to take up more space to effectively absorb the kinetic force from a bullet (otherwise, it would be brittle and easy to shatter), slowing down the Tyranid in question significantly. Then, whatever the bioform may have to armor it, certain things will still harm it;
Shokk Attack Gun (having insane snotlings/squigs scrabbling around beneath your armor plates can hardly be comfortable)
Plasma/Melta weapons (the Orks should have these in abundance now that they control the former Imperium/Tau Sept Worlds)
Brute Strength (no feasible amount of armor can protect against a power klaw wielded by a three meter tall Nob)
Flamers (these cast a blanket of flame that will sear anything left open by a chink in the armor)

good point Shrouger.
Nids can't stop snotlings from a sag.

tyranids can adapt but they must also lose qualities. if they did'nt lose qualities there could be genstealers with the equivelant of terminator armour. orks don't have to lose qualities in technolidgy because they can create kombi-weapons and theres always going to be an old gun lying around in the mek shoop that the nids did'nt think they need to counter anymore

While I understand the Tyranid Hive Fleet can out think and out maneuver Orks, it's also been shown the Orks are capable of destroying Hive Fleets in Ship to Ship combat, something the Imperium really struggles with.

According to the fluff I've read, Orks are still far more numerous than other species in the 40k universe.

According to the fluff I've read, Orks are still far more numerous than other species in the 40k universe.

And in the time it takes for the bulk of the fleet (whose very existence is uncomfirmed), the current Hive Fleets will already have been eradicated; the Orks might well go out to meet the arriving Tyranids before the bugs are even aware of the danger.

well it how fast orks can travvel is a bit of a lottery. an ork fleet can take centuries to cross the warp, but in the ork codex it says one ork waaaagh went back in time in the warp and came out shortly before they arrived

I just thought of a new twist on one of my previous ideas. To revamp the old Mosquito Nid idea, how about each one is a tiny brain bug. We could say each mosquito could be equal to about 3-5 synaptic brain cells; and since they swarm in the billions, they could easily cover entire continents with a synaptic link. They are too small to get radar lock, so if Orks waste time shooting blindly into the air, all the other Nids have plenty of time to run to the front line. If the mosquito threat is ignored, then it only takes the one mosquito sting to deliver what ever potent weed killing virus the Hive Mind thought of.

Some Greenskins might think that blasting 17 million of these mosquito brain bugs out of the air might cause a disturbance in the synaptic chain. Rest assured, this is not the case. Not only do the brain bugs swarm by the billions in the air, there is also enough to spare so that each of the lesser instinctual Tyranids can have their very own groupings of these tiny brain bugs clustered at and around the base of each their skulls. If the enemy gets enough of these mosquito brains latched to themselves, then they too can hear the glorious voice of the Hive Mind.

The Shadow in the Warp would be physically manifest as the swarm blacks out the sky and casts all worlds into darkness!

yes but every time a mosquitoe nid dies all the nids would feel it. and it would need to be a big creature to store poisen potent enough poisen to kill an ork in one sting. you also have to ask if you're idea is so great why hasn't the hive mind already done it whilst they're fighting orks in the octarius war

Yeah the Tyrnaids will always lose qualities when they gain others. Faster tyranid will keep lighter carapaces and heavily armored tyranid will be slower. The only exception seems to be the Swarmlord who is heavily armored and is as fast hell at the same time. (in the fluff)

Yeah but theres only one of him (thank gork and mork)

moonshine wrote:yes but every time a mosquitoe nid dies all the nids would feel it. and it would need to be a big creature to store poisen potent enough poisen to kill an ork in one sting. you also have to ask if you're idea is so great why hasn't the hive mind already done it whilst they're fighting orks in the octarius war

Well, then I will pray to the Hive Mind with all my might, and then write a note, and then launch the note into space on a bottle rocket, and then the Hive Mind will hear me, and then it will be cool!

As for asking myself why the Hive Mind has not thought of this stuff already... You would actually have to ask GW... But they are only going to tell you to buy stuff. The ideas I am coming up with are end game scenarios, we all know GW has no idea how things are going to end... or if it will end at all. However, I am quite confident that if the Hive Mind where real, there would be creatures out there very similar to what I have come up with.

Killing the brain bugs flying in the air will not change a thing. Every Tyranid that needs synaptic link, will have enough Brain Mosquitoes assigned to it upon birth. Brain Mosquitoes, with a symbiotic relationship in this way, are the ones who channel the will of the Hive Mind into the lesser Tyranid.

The Brain Mosquitoes in the air may not even be active all the time. Consider them to be more like Random Access Memory (R.A.M.) in a computer. So, if a warrior randomly dies in battle, the Hive Mind can tap into enough Brain Mosquitoes to cover that area with synapse again. At that time the Brain Mosquitoes will fly lower, attach to some other Nid, or take cover until they are no longer needed.

As for being a potent enough poison, it is not the size of the bug carrying the poison that you should be worried about, it is the type of poison in the bug. The ease in which the Hive Mind can break down DNA coding is diabolical. It would only take a few fast acting and self replicating strands of super duper Ork cancer cells and then the Ork starts to sprout tumors all over his body.

Psyker_9er wrote:

moonshine wrote:yes but every time a mosquitoe nid dies all the nids would feel it. and it would need to be a big creature to store poisen potent enough poisen to kill an ork in one sting. you also have to ask if you're idea is so great why hasn't the hive mind already done it whilst they're fighting orks in the octarius war

Well, then I will pray to the Hive Mind with all my might, and then write a note, and then launch the note into space on a bottle rocket, and then the Hive Mind will hear me, and then it will be cool!

As for asking myself why the Hive Mind has not thought of this stuff already... You would actually have to ask GW... But they are only going to tell you to buy stuff. The ideas I am coming up with are end game scenarios, we all know GW has no idea how things are going to end... or if it will end at all. However, I am quite confident that if the Hive Mind where real, there would be creatures out there very similar to what I have come up with.

Killing the brain bugs flying in the air will not change a thing. Every Tyranid that needs synaptic link, will have enough Brain Mosquitoes assigned to it upon birth. Brain Mosquitoes, with a symbiotic relationship in this way, are the ones who channel the will of the Hive Mind into the lesser Tyranid.

The Brain Mosquitoes in the air may not even be active all the time. Consider them to be more like Random Access Memory (R.A.M.) in a computer. So, if a warrior randomly dies in battle, the Hive Mind can tap into enough Brain Mosquitoes to cover that area with synapse again. At that time the Brain Mosquitoes will fly lower, attach to some other Nid, or take cover until they are no longer needed.

As for being a potent enough poison, it is not the size of the bug carrying the poison that you should be worried about, it is the type of poison in the bug. The ease in which the Hive Mind can break down DNA coding is diabolical. It would only take a few fast acting and self replicating strands of super duper Ork cancer cells and then the Ork starts to sprout tumors all over his body.

Correct me if im wrong, but these mosquito's are the size of normal mosquito's right? I like the idea of billions of mosquito's on the battlefield swarming the Tyranid force it makes them seem more..... swarmish.

There are still some major issues with these mosquitos:
They may be expendable (even more so than gaunts), but they still require a certain amount of biomass. Considering the metabolism required to fly with any kind of speed alone, these mosquitos will likely consume a proportionally significant amount of biomass individually. Then, considering the billions that will die before they reach the Orks (the plasma flamers should see to that), the cost becomes even greater, namely because the biomass cannot be recycled. Further, I doubt that the hive mind could easily develop a toxin that could fell an Ork almost instantly; an Ork needs to practically swim in most poisons to even begin to experience ill-effects.

I think they would have to be like a nuisance, not fatal. Maybe making it hard to see, definitely a psychological weapon.

I think they would have to be like a nuisance, not fatal. Maybe making it hard to see, definitely a psychological weapon.

Agreed. Even Orks would likely find insects swarming around them at least mildly uncomfortable, perhaps even painful if enough survive to reach them.

i think they would survive, we are talking billions of creatures. maybe they could lay eggs in living and dead hosts? eggs just under the skin 100's from one victim. Yet not fatal just extremely painful.

That would not be dissimilar to a gas attack.

haha yes thats very true. But this would be a living self replicating gas that keeps its deliverers soldiers in line!

Well there you go.

ah yes thats somthing i just realised, the mosquitose would have very smaal lungs and organs, ork worlds are usually very poluted, and have alot of smoke from vehicles and warbikes, the mosquitose would suphorcate very quickly before they do anything.

Well really anything that is not adapted to those conditions would have a hard time breathing. Tyranid have bested almost every condition there is to fight in, I don't think a polluted Ork world is any different.

I think it is more or less established that pollutants in the air will have little impact on either group.

obsidianaura wrote:In Xenology they experiment on an Ork's corpse and its spores. Using simple herbicide the "the tiniest amount was corrosive to orkflesh, but at a microscopic level. A Miracle! The alagal helix was burned through - not destroyed, but slowed. I left the spores to grow for an hour and came back to find untidy structures, lopsided and tumorous: wretched amalgams of Orkoid species."

If the Imperium has discovered this then maybe the Orks days are numbered and the Tyranids wouldn't have anything to fight.

In Xenology, it was also discovered that at the core of EVERY Nid that they had on site, there was a ripper, and that the rippers were all functionally identicle.

also, from reading the book, im not sure if the IOM ever actually got any of the information from the disections.

Another point to consider is that, IIRC, Weird boyz do not draw on the warp (or at least, not entirely) for the power. they draw on the pure WAAAAGH energy created by the orks around them. the more boyz, and the rowdier they are, the more powerful the weird boy gets. Zogwart is gonna get tired of the headache the hivemind is causing him, and direct his curse (drawing power from an entire planet) at the Hivemind. Boom. bye bye hivemind, hello ork victory.

I'm not certain that the Ork Weirdboyz will simply destroy the Hive Mind, but they can certainly do some damage, perhaps enough to disorientate the Hive Mind at a critical moment. Suddenly, a Gaunt bounding toward an Ork will pause for a moment in doubt as its instincts assume control; just long enough to be crushed by a choppa. This will be repeated across the entire planet. Further, any synapse creatures will be either dazed or killed, further weakening the command structure once the Hive Mind reassumes control.

Also, given the mosquito idea: with the Hive Mind knocked out, those things will likely drop in their millions.

On the orbital front; without the Hive Mind's control, the Hive Ships' more complicated inner workings will be rendered temporarily ineffective (just as a Kill Kroozer moves in with with a cyclone bomb )

aaaah what if the orks got thier hands on the chemical the imperials are using on armegeddon and releasde it on the hive fleets after making more that is and since the tyranids are just organic nothing else they would all die and be turned into black sludge