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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 17:58:11
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Dominar
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This isn't a place to discuss the legal minutiae of the case, it's simply a binary question to get a feel for the forum population's sentiments.
If you want, throw a brief 1-2 liner explaining why you voted the way you did.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:01:11
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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[DCM]
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"News and Rumors" isn't really the place for this thread, so...
...Shazam!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:01:56
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Chapter House, because GW can defend and keep their IP safe and sound without also being Arseholes about it. Plus maybe if they sack a few lawyers they can pump out another plastic set or two a year with the savings!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:02:20
Subject: Re:Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I don't really mind what Chapterhouse is doing personally, but they are quite blatantly ripping off GW's stuff, so GW should easily win a lawsuit in case there was one.
Is there an actual (pending) lawsuit, or are you just presuming there will be one eventually?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:03:27
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Dominar
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There's a lawsuit pending. Mods moved this thread from the News&Rumors section, but you can read more on the specifics there (in the News&Rumors section).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:08:51
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Sslimey Sslyth
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I'd prefer CH to come out ahead because that would result in an increase in competition, and increased competition is only good for the consumer. It would provide us with a larger amount of variety. It would also result in an overall reduction in price as competitors strove to balance quality of product with price the consumer is willing to pay.
From a consumer standpoint, there really is no downside to CH winning the lawsuit, and no real upside to GW winning.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:12:26
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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Chapterhouses stuff is clearly inspired by GW art, but nothing is a direct copy. I think that they make the hobby more interesting and aren't hurting GW in any measurable way. Losing that would be a loss, especially since I want a full jetseer council.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:15:21
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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I have no strong opinion. I think if Chapterhouse were a little less blatant in their advertising and so on, they could probably do business with little trouble from GW. GW do have a right to protect their IP, so yeah whatever. My hope is that the outcome is something reasonable, like CH using generic terms and avoiding the use of GW specific bits and kits in their advertising.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:18:00
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Saldiven wrote:I'd prefer CH to come out ahead because that would result in an increase in competition, and increased competition is only good for the consumer. It would provide us with a larger amount of variety. It would also result in an overall reduction in price as competitors strove to balance quality of product with price the consumer is willing to pay.
From a consumer standpoint, there really is no downside to CH winning the lawsuit, and no real upside to GW winning.
There's no "increase in competition" that would result from CH winning. CH doesn't produce their own game or products based on their own IP that is an alternative to GW's.
Basically every point you made for "prefering CH to come out ahead" is ridiculous and irrelevant.
If the case were Privateer Press being sued by GW for IP infringement, your points would have a bit more merit.
But let's face it; this isn't a case of two competing companies having at it over a contested point. It's a company that, for a simplistic animal analogy, is a remora clinging to a shark. As long as they don't anger the shark or get in the shark's way, they don't get ate up and they remain happily fed. If they get in the shark's way...they become the shark's next meal.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:18:44
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth
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Da Boss wrote:My hope is that the outcome is something reasonable, like CH using generic terms and avoiding the use of GW specific bits and kits in their advertising.
Voice of reason... is that you??
(But seriously, that's what I hope for, too)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/30 19:27:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:22:37
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Bryan Ansell
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Can we have a fence sitting option?
Oh, and make sure that when the case is resolved we also a have a 'meh' option when we get the 'Do you think the judgement was right' poll and thread.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:24:35
Subject: Re:Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Fixture of Dakka
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I guess it might be too much to ask that GW work with Chapterhouse, huh?
I hope Chapterhouse comes out okay... I personally don't like their stuff but I like the idea of folks having a choice of after market parts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:25:06
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Lord of the Fleet
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GW basically have four points: 1. Chapterhouse's website makes it look like they are in some way official or affiliated - I do think their tagline could have been better phrased. 2. Parts of the walker (railguns) look just like GW parts - they do, to be fair. 3. Chapterhouse shouldn't be allowed to sell bits because it makes it harder for us to possibly sell those bits in the future if we decide to get around to it - absolutely ridiculous. 4. Chapterhouse used our special trademarked words without our permission - also absolutely ridiculous. ETA, points 3 and 4 worry me because, should they get a favourable ruling (unlikely) it opens up everyone making aftermarket stuff. E.G. Battlefoam make a rhino tray - "you used our words and we might want to sell something like that in the future!"
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/30 18:35:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:25:54
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge
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I usually root for the little guy, but Chapterhouse has had a really irritating attitude towards this entire thing, and they're parading around copyrighted designs and trademarked terms all over their website. I'm not a fan of most of their sculpts, but I don't exactly want to see them get burned to the ground. If GW makes them change wording around (from "Space Marine shoulder pads!" to "Power armor shoulder pads" and so on) then I think they can do alright.
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Check out my Youtube channel!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:30:39
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Lord of the Fleet
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If they had used phrases like "Shoulder Pad - suitable for 28mm armoured models such as GW Space Marines" it sounds much better than "Space Marine Shoulder Pads" which kind of implies that they are "official" space marine shoulder pads.
Stupid that you should have to make that kind of distinction, but that's the world we're in, unfortunately.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:32:27
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Assault Kommando
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I also hate to see a little guy get stepped on, but almost everything they sell is infringing on GW's IP. Sorry Chapterhouse, you are gonna lose this one.
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:33:48
Subject: Re:Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Grey Knight Psionic Stormraven Pilot
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Does the fact that I customize my SM and CSM with chapterhouse stuff matter!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 18:37:53
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Scott-S6 wrote:If they had used phrases like "Shoulder Pad - suitable for 28mm armoured models such as GW Space Marines" it sounds much better than "Space Marine Shoulder Pads" which kind of implies that they are "official" space marine shoulder pads.
Stupid that you should have to make that kind of distinction, but that's the world we're in, unfortunately.
I would agree - most of the "problems" that I can see stem from how they are phrasing things on their site, rather than what it is they are physically making. A few edits on their website (and perhaps a couple of items removed from sale) and Robert is your parents brother.
3rd party manufacturers have just started to really get off the ground for conversion/etc parts (as far as I am concerned anyway) and it would be a shame to curtail this by making other companies too afraid of making anything without GW deciding to stomp on them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 19:23:01
Subject: Re:Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Barpharanges
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GW. Chapter House Broke the law.
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The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 19:30:52
Subject: Re:Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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blood reaper wrote:GW. Chapter House Broke the law.
Really? I didn't know that the case has already been decided. Or that you have a full appreciation of the facts and relevant law to make that determination on your own.
I mean, if you're actually saying "based on a casual awareness of the facts and a complete lack of knowledge of American IP law, my gut tells me that what Chapterhouse did was in violation of GW's rights," than that's a fine statement. But let's not pretend you know what you're talking about.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 19:34:15
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Lord of the Fleet
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SilverMK2 wrote:Scott-S6 wrote:If they had used phrases like "Shoulder Pad - suitable for 28mm armoured models such as GW Space Marines" it sounds much better than "Space Marine Shoulder Pads" which kind of implies that they are "official" space marine shoulder pads.
Stupid that you should have to make that kind of distinction, but that's the world we're in, unfortunately.
I would agree - most of the "problems" that I can see stem from how they are phrasing things on their site, rather than what it is they are physically making. A few edits on their website (and perhaps a couple of items removed from sale) and Robert is your parents brother.
3rd party manufacturers have just started to really get off the ground for conversion/etc parts (as far as I am concerned anyway) and it would be a shame to curtail this by making other companies too afraid of making anything without GW deciding to stomp on them.
Chapterhouse seem to be in the middle of doing exactly that:
"Vehicle Replacement Part Kits that fit on Games Workshop Models"
"Bits/Conversions kits for 28 mm Mars Faction"
"Bits/Conversion kits for Space Elves"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 19:37:43
Subject: Re:Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Barpharanges
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I believe GW should win becuase Chapter House Copied GW's Trademarked items and names. It's just my thought on the situation.
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The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 19:38:29
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Crafty Bray Shaman
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If GW wins,
- They get lots of money from sueing
- Chapterhouse is all OOP
-Sell the OOP bits on ebay as ''collectors items''
-Profit!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 19:39:06
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Fixture of Dakka
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I don't like the poll options. It reduces a complex set of hundreds of legal & factual determinations into a binary popularity contest. There's unlikely to be a singular "winner" in any suit this complex.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/30 19:39:35
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 19:39:50
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Myrmidon Officer
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Honestly, I'm really sickened by all these "told-you-so" smug types on this board that support GW. Not every GW-apologetic has this viewpoint, mind you.
Understand that if GW wins this lawsuit, it may set a very dangerous precedent that could heavily diminish the third party bits market. The automotive parts market example has been given, but this is a different market. GW could use this case as precedent to strong-arm anyone that makes bits compatible with miniatures in "The Games Workshop Hobby".
I understand it's cliche to hate on Games Workshop, but I oppose them for the following reasons:
1 - GW could have sent a C&D. Instead, they decided upon a punch-in-the-face lawsuit.
2 - GW has their sources wrong and Paulson games did not have any hand in producing the Walker in question.
3 - GW is trying to strong-arm competition regarding some iconography that they do not have trademarked.
Finally, people seem to be really missing the focus of the lawsuit. The major component in question is the Walker. Additionally, the lawsuit is against Chapterhouse AND Paulson.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 19:43:30
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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Janthkin wrote:I don't like the poll options. It reduces a complex set of hundreds of legal & factual determinations into a binary popularity contest. There's unlikely to be a singular "winner" in any suit this complex.
Listen Mr. Fancy Pants lawyer-man, this is about the theiving bastards at chapterhous and the feckless bullies at Games workshop.
Pick a side and stop trying to treat this like a genuine conflict of interest between two businesses.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 19:47:02
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Polonius wrote:Listen Mr. Fancy Pants lawyer-man, this is about the theiving bastards at chapterhous and the feckless bullies at Games workshop.
If only they would settle it Thunderdome style. Two companies enter, only one company leaves. Might makes right and right makes might.
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In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 19:49:23
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Polonius wrote:Listen Mr. Fancy Pants lawyer-man, this is about the theiving bastards at chapterhous and the feckless bullies at Games workshop.
Pick a side and stop trying to treat this like a genuine conflict of interest between two businesses.
Bah! Humbug!
Watch me insert some legal minutiae into this thread!
Absolutionis wrote:I understand it's cliche to hate on Games Workshop, but I oppose them for the following reasons:
1 - GW could have sent a C&D. Instead, they decided upon a punch-in-the-face lawsuit.
We can't actually know what went on pre-suit; there may have been letters sent, or there may not have been.
2 - GW has their sources wrong and Paulson games did not have any hand in producing the Walker in question.
Yup, this is a problem. As was brought up elsewhere, it could have an interesting effect on venue, too.
3 - GW is trying to strong-arm competition regarding some iconography that they do not have trademarked.
You don't have to *register* a trademark for it to be a trademark; that's the difference, for example, between words marked " TM" and those marked with a (R). Most states still have either common law or state trademark protections available. (If you want to take advantage of the protections offered under the Federal Trademark Act, you need to register your trademark.)
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Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 20:06:38
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
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I wish the lawyery types would get of the way of a good clean scrum.
I choose GW, because they are clearly bastions of all that is right and just about miniature wargaming, while Chapterhouse is a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Oh, and I play warmachine.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/30 20:32:57
Subject: Who do you want to win: Chapterhouse or GW?
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Dominar
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Janthkin wrote:I don't like the poll options. It reduces a complex set of hundreds of legal & factual determinations into a binary popularity contest. There's unlikely to be a singular "winner" in any suit this complex.
You're free to create your own poll with a set of hundreds of legal and factual determinations to generate an aggregate sentiment barometer for a forum audience of fifty contributors that you might then index into a nebulous non-answer.
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